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1944 Walker PCGS MS-66, CAC, awful strike, yikes!

ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,780 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Not knocking the seller in any way, but this has to be one of the worst strikes I've ever seen for a 44-P Walker or for any 40's P mint; this one looks more like a 44-S!

1944 Mushy Walker

10-4,
Erik
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Comments

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,661 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow, and a starting bid of only $329!

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I assume you still agree it is a 66...... or are you disputing the TPG and FPG??? Cheers, RickO
  • JustaRookieJustaRookie Posts: 566 ✭
    I agree with the grade and can see why the OP thinks the CAC is a stretch for a 66 grade considering there are some details that appear to be missing based upon the photos. An awesome coin nonetheless!!!!
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  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,780 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RickO, based on luster and marks, it could be a 66 based on that. But that strike on a date that usually comes pretty sharp, I'd have a tough time giving it a 65 myself. If I was to get a 66 of this date, CAC or not, I'd keep looking. You should be able to find a great well-struck example for < $200.

    To sum it up, I disagree with both assessments of that coin, but that's just me.

    Here's one on TT that sold for way less recently (no CAC), and it has a far sharper strike to boot:

    1944 50c MS-66

    I don't think the CAC sticker adds 2x to the value.

    10-4,
    Erik
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  • LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    Ewwww, that`s horrible.

    MS66....image

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,709 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,709 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not all 1944 P coins are struck well; some are on the soft side.

    Though, I must say that this is one of the more deficient ones that I have seen.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    buy the coin not the holder!!! Coin could look nice in hand though!
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  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭
    Years ago, in my experience, the best a PCGS coin could grade with a weak strike MS64, assuming the luster was powerful and the coin was nearly mark free. I've seen one or two MS65's in almost 10 years and that's it.

    This is the first PCGS 66 with a mushy strike that I've ever seen. Maybe it's the photo?
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  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always thought strike was a grading factor on mint state coins. that coins is so weakly struck that you can't even see the hand. I'd expect a lot more detail on a 66. I guess even CAC coins need to be closely examoned prior to purchase.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
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  • JcarneyJcarney Posts: 3,154 ✭


    << <i> I guess even CAC coins need to be closely examoned prior to purchase. >>



    The logical outgrowth of that is a company is needed to affix an "approval dot©" to the CAC sticker on the certification holder. This extra level of scrutiny is apparently sorely needed to give the customer the peace of mind they deserve and demand.

    image
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  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even with my ipad, I could not get a good enough closeup to see the details as it was too out of focus.

    I am sure that either the pictures are no good or the PCGS/CAC might have been too lenient. It does happen. Even David Hall has admitted as such that once in a while PCGS buys back their coins.

    But I can't tell from my pics.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like it !!!
    Timbuk3
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Isn't that the ultra rare one armed variety???image
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd need to see a clearer pic to get a good look at the skirt lines to see whether or not I believe the coin S/B a 6. The main diff. between a 5 and 6, as I see it, is that 5s usually have light chatter in the skirt lines, while this is not the case for 6s.
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  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,234 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That seller is a member here and usually has a pretty good eye for quality. Hard to believe that 3 sets of better eyes are wrong.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭✭
    imageimage
    image

    If that's a 66 I wonder what this one will grade....Hmmmmm
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • JcarneyJcarney Posts: 3,154 ✭


    << <i>That seller is a member here and usually has a pretty good eye for quality. Hard to believe that 3 sets of better eyes are wrong. >>



    That's an understatement. I know Ira well and would be hard-pressed to think of someone with a better eye.
    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin


    My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
  • JcarneyJcarney Posts: 3,154 ✭
    crazyhounddog, your photos are mind blowing! The reverse of that Walker is spectacular.

    What kind of setup do you use?
    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin


    My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let's say that I suffer a traumatic brain injury and agree that this piece is an honest 66...in what world does someone sticker a 44 with an abysmal strike like that as premium for the grade...? Or even spot on for the grade?
    This coin out of the holder drops at least 4 points imo... and some people would even say it looks like a slider.
    Sorry but no kool aid for me thanks. Someone got a huge gift here.


    Edit to add: Now hound dog's pieces....those are a whole different ball game. Awesome, and strikes more akin to what's expected of this date/mint.

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  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think we are getting too caught up in grading from images and that is difficult once we are getting in the 65 range-

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  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,778 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think we are getting too caught up in grading from images and that is difficult once we are getting in the 65 range- >>



    The pics are good enough to show that this coin is very weakly struck which is what is being discussed here.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And CAC stickered that poorly struck coin! Is the guy giving the sticker to it blind or what? What a low end piece of trash and they want to use the CAC sticker to trade coins sight unseen. Hey buy sight seen and learn how to look at coins people!

    I don't think that coin is worth any more than MS60 money if even that. But good luck in selling it. If the seller had anything to him, he would start it at $9.95 and let her rip (which would not be very far).

    I love the sellers outrageous sales pitch the about the coin and how only 3% of Walkers have slabbed by CAC. He should be embarassed - perhaps he believes he is selling to blind people. I guess we should buy it now before someone else does to have something in the top 3% LOL. Hurry, hurry now and buy it before the market goes up! Don't be left out of being the end user on that one!
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  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,759 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think we are getting too caught up in grading from images and that is difficult once we are getting in the 65 range- >>



    Please educate me - a coin so poorly sturck like that is at least an MS65?
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  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,780 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Crazyhounddog, now that is some 66! Great photographs of a great coin; that's what I call the definition of a 66 - good strike and nice luster. I'm betting that you probably paid less than the coin in the link too.

    I know we can't pinpoint grades on photos, but we can pick up weak strikes and other defects on a decent photo. If Crazyhounddog's coin was the one up for sale, this thread wouldn't exist. Maybe it would exist in "my latest new purchase " thread! image

    10-4,
    Erik
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  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,197 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think we are getting too caught up in grading from images and that is difficult once we are getting in the 65 range- >>



    Please educate me - a coin so poorly sturck like that is at least an MS65? >>



    Ok - I will educate you. There have been several threads here and across the street where a walker is posted, people trash the strike and then an independent in hand review says the strike is fine for the grade.

    Forgive me, but I will trust PCGS and CAC over an image because I know that images lie.
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