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What is the best way to haggle at a show?
JCB1983
Posts: 143
I tend to be a penny pincher by nature. Along with this I also have experience working in a pawnshop. Every 20 dollars counts. You have to talk everybody down atleast 20 dollars below their bare minimum because it adds up to thousands of dollars overtime.
Now... How about buying coins at a show? How would you suggest paying the absolute rock bottom on that coin that has your eye?
Is there a certain time period (late in the show/early) that you might get the best results?
Is it better to make an offer, leave, and then come back for a 2nd swoop?
Is it always better to establish a good relationship with a dealer before I really start to haggle their coins?
Does small talk help lossen up a deal before digging for a price reduction?
Anyway, this post might not be so comforting if you are a hard working dealer who is trying to supply quality coins.. but please answer truthfully.
Thank You Very Much.
Now... How about buying coins at a show? How would you suggest paying the absolute rock bottom on that coin that has your eye?
Is there a certain time period (late in the show/early) that you might get the best results?
Is it better to make an offer, leave, and then come back for a 2nd swoop?
Is it always better to establish a good relationship with a dealer before I really start to haggle their coins?
Does small talk help lossen up a deal before digging for a price reduction?
Anyway, this post might not be so comforting if you are a hard working dealer who is trying to supply quality coins.. but please answer truthfully.
Thank You Very Much.
0
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The Penny Lady®
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
Besides all that the best advice to heed is to never take things personally or too seriously and do not renege on your offer if it is accepted.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>I tend to be a penny pincher by nature. Along with this I also have experience working in a pawnshop. Every 20 dollars counts. You have to talk everybody down atleast 20 dollars below their bare minimum because it adds up to thousands of dollars overtime.
Now... How about buying coins at a show? How would you suggest paying the absolute rock bottom on that coin that has your eye?
Is there a certain time period (late in the show/early) that you might get the best results?
Is it better to make an offer, leave, and then come back for a 2nd swoop?
Is it always better to establish a good relationship with a dealer before I really start to haggle their coins?
Does small talk help lossen up a deal before digging for a price reduction?
Anyway, this post might not be so comforting if you are a hard working dealer who is trying to supply quality coins.. but please answer truthfully.
Thank You Very Much. >>
You sound like you have some experience in this area.....what works for you?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>People can explain all they want about strategy but nothing beats doing it firsthand or watching the pros do it. Take a trip to Asia and hang around the night markets for a few days or tag along with a buddy to the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul and watch. More effective than having a dozen people explain it to death. >>
I agree. Asia, Istanbul and some other foreign places are great places to learn how to haggle. Once you learn there, you can do it in the US.
<< <i>
<< <i>People can explain all they want about strategy but nothing beats doing it firsthand or watching the pros do it. Take a trip to Asia and hang around the night markets for a few days or tag along with a buddy to the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul and watch. More effective than having a dozen people explain it to death. >>
I agree. Asia, Istanbul and some other foreign places are great places to learn how to haggle. Once you learn there, you can do it in the US. >>
Can you generally watch them haggle in english?
<< <i>People can explain all they want about strategy but nothing beats doing it firsthand or watching the pros do it. Take a trip to Asia and hang around the night markets for a few days or tag along with a buddy to the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul and watch. More effective than having a dozen people explain it to death. >>
Have to disagree. I spent three hours in Morocco thirty years ago haggling over a carpet in the Arabic language. Culturally, this sort of thing is / was accepted and expected over there. It is NOT culturally accepted and expected here. This sort of thing is part of the way of life in the Maghreb and other places. Not here.
As Ahren's Dad put it, ask a best price, then pass or play.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Remember, you can't force a dealer to sell a coin to you at a price other than what he wants to sell that coin. If you know the coin market better than the dealer does and know the dealer's financial position better than he does (is he cash short? how long has he owned the coin? does he feel that he'll likely sell the coin in the next few weeks?), then you might try to haggle.
What I've found is that I value a good relationship with a dealer much more than a "cheaper" price. A good relationship has gotten me "first shot" at coins I really want, better sales prices over time and better bids on my coins when I want to sell.
If what you're collecting is "common as dirt", then feel free to shop around and haggle. On the other hand, if what you're collecting is uncommon enough that 10 collectors are looking for each coin, then you'd be better off cultivating good relationships. (Why should a dealer spend 10 minutes haggling with you when he has five regular customers who will pay his asking price without a second thought?)
What I do is ask: "What's your best price?" (or, "What do you need on this?") and then I either play or pass.
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If not, I will ask for best price or "what can you do on..." and pass or play. If I pass, there is rarely discussion initiated by the other party. Often, I will say, "Okay, let me think about it, which usually means PASS."
(I learned that from my parents
<< <i>I think you ask, "what's your best price on X". At that point it's generally play or pass. You may get one more swipe with a counteroffer, but probably not. >>
From a dealer's perspective, when a customer asks for my "best price", I give the customer that price.
If the customer counteroffers, haven't I have already given my best price?
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
The first deal you make might get you somewhere. After that, the dealer may harbor a negative feeling toward you. The next time you come around you probably won't be given the "best price" to start with. You certainly won't have accesss to any of the coins on the back desk. You also won't be getting the first phone call if that certain magical piece you've been looking for shows up in a dealer's inventory.
Also, someday it will be time to sell part or all of your collection. You can go the annonymous auction route, but selling directly to dealers has advantages at times. Those dealers that you continually beat up over small increments will reward you with a much weaker offer at "buyback" time.
I don't think you need to overpay, but respect the dealer's time, profession, skills, and inventory. Ask their best price. If you want to make a counteroffer, sure, do it respectfully - once. If you still aren't on the same page, move along, and thank them for their time.
Just my two cents. Also, the comments on the cultural acceptability of haggling are right on. Most coin shows shouldn't be viewed like neighborhood garage sales.
Perspective counts for a lot too. Are we talking purchases that average $100 or $100,000. Try talking someone down $20 on a purchase of $5,000 and any opportunity to do business will quickly evaporate.
<< <i>
<< <i>People can explain all they want about strategy but nothing beats doing it firsthand or watching the pros do it. Take a trip to Asia and hang around the night markets for a few days or tag along with a buddy to the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul and watch. More effective than having a dozen people explain it to death. >>
Have to disagree. I spent three hours in Morocco thirty years ago haggling over a carpet in the Arabic language. Culturally, this sort of thing is / was accepted and expected over there. It is NOT culturally accepted and expected here. This sort of thing is part of the way of life in the Maghreb and other places. Not here.
As Ahren's Dad put it, ask a best price, then pass or play. >>
You are right about the cultural differences. At 22 years old,I started my learning experience haggling with cab drivers to gold and gem dealers in Bangkok,Thailand. All spoke English and were very polite respectful people. I often went to one of the biggest dealers of gems and gold in Bangkok called Johnny's Gems,who actually once invited me upstairs to have lunch with his entire family! Now that's customer service! Although I was not a big customer, making $300/month on a 2nd Lieutenant's salary,I loved the place. One other interesting thing the bigger dealers did was to serve free beer while you sat and looked over their inventory. I will definitely start going to more coin shows if they start doing that as a marketing approach.
Edit: Gold at the time was selling for between $38-$40/oz RETAIL! I sent many gold chains home for resale.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think you ask, "what's your best price on X". At that point it's generally play or pass. You may get one more swipe with a counteroffer, but probably not. >>
From a dealer's perspective, when a customer asks for my "best price", I give the customer that price.
If the customer counteroffers, haven't I have already given my best price?
Sounds like he is calling you a liar in this case.
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"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i> One other interesting thing the bigger dealers did was to serve free beer while you sat and looked over their inventory. I will definitely start going to more coin shows if they start doing that as a marketing approach. >>
Mabey Charmy will start bringing a bottle of wine to the show instead of the dinner after.
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Certainly don't pull out a RB and start lookin at prices, dates, etc. Know your series, know your price range.
I want the coin(#1) priority
If no price is marked I find it better to open as it shows you are ready to close, i am a buyer at this level....
If they counter and it's close state lets meet at xxxxx and you have a deal. If its far apart you can show respect by saying such and asking if they have anymore room but after that number it is best to do the cash test; do you want the coin more than the pile of cash you would have to give up.
If a price is marked you can still open or just ask for their best price. The best price line works best with dealers you know well and one shouldn't expect too much from cold requests.
<< <i>People can explain all they want about strategy but nothing beats doing it firsthand or watching the pros do it. Take a trip to Asia and hang around the night markets for a few days or tag along with a buddy to the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul and watch. More effective than having a dozen people explain it to death. >>
One dealer I know at coin shows told me all his coins are over inflated by as much as 25%. At all shows as soon as someone says WHAT. He tells them for you I'll knock off 15%. If they still don't bite, he then says OK, how about 20% off. Many potential customers of his gets him down to 25% off. Right back to what he really wanted anyway.
At all coin shows if I can't get a dealer down to what I want, I just walk away. No arguments, No further discussions, And when I see them at other shows, I still do that walking away.
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<< <i>It is all sort of like buying a house. You ask how much and they say whatever they hope it will sell for but full well know it just ain't so. Then you counter offer and that is refused and then the seller counter offers and on and on until everyone thinks they got the better deal. >>
Where I live you wonder how much more you have to offer over the asking price to beat everyone else.
A few dealers I never haggle with. If I balk it's up to them whether we do business.
Lance.
<< <i>I'm well aware that all sellers have already raised all prices to account for everyone haggling. >>
Maybe lots of them, or most. But all? No so.
and how you then approach the situation. I don't haggle too much when it comes to coins ... but as suggested, "respectfully" always seems to help.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
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I watch BIN's on eBay that have rolled over every 30 days for a year, and never the price will change. The fact that it hadn't sold is not my problem, but buying a coin OTHERS pass by suggests the seller may be asking more than most are willing to pay, and that I might be that one lone wolf who wants a coin so much that I'm willing to pay the price, whether justified or not.
The latter are a seller's lawful prey. And as a buyer, I won't truly know the value of my purchase until I attempt to sell the coin myself.
If I ask for a "best price", I accept that, and choose to purchase or not. Haggling after that seems desperate, and demeans the seller.
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<< <i>
<< <i> One other interesting thing the bigger dealers did was to serve free beer while you sat and looked over their inventory. I will definitely start going to more coin shows if they start doing that as a marketing approach. >>
Mabey Charmy will start bringing a bottle of wine to the show instead of the dinner after.
What do you mean "start"? I thought everyone knew about the afternoon bourse wine hour at Charmy's table! That's when the best deals are made!!
The Penny Lady®
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>I think you ask, "what's your best price on X". At that point it's generally play or pass. You may get one more swipe with a counteroffer, but probably not. >>
From a dealer's perspective, when a customer asks for my "best price", I give the customer that price.
If the customer counteroffers, haven't I have already given my best price?
I used to agree with this a long time ago, but i do not think alot believe in this anymore. They have watched to many of the new reality shows. I know what quite a few of my friends pay for stuff at their pawnshops, gun stores and it is pennies on the buck. I do the same thing but i am willing to pay a little more on stuff that comes my way. I watched a guy heading to football camp in New England walk out of a gun store with 2200 bucks in his pocket. He sold them 2 ar-15's, 1 ar 10. a desert eagle 50 pistol and a 1911 pistol. They were nice clean and decked out. I was leaving as he was and said to him it kind of sux what he got for the guns. His reply was he could not take them with him and he did not feel comfortable leaving them behind and besides he got a good contract so.... They will be in the gun cases next week marked up to around the going rate. I doubt the gun store would sell me 10k worth of guns for 2500 just because i know that they got in them. They know that in a reasonable amount of time some one will walk thru the door and pay for them.
When i set up at a show i go to sell, and move the goods. I will price it to spark intrest and below the others. When joe walks up offering half the asking price it is an instant turn off to me. I sell to a lot of the other dealers at close to what i ask. But if i did not have that table and tried to sell the same stuff to dealers i would be lowballed unless i have done something for them in the past. I do this a few times a year, there is no way i could put up with it on a weekly basis.
I see more and more people taking this approach of setting up to sell off their stuff. They know they can't walk in and sell to the B&M's or walk the shows and get more that 30 to 50 percent of retail so getting a table for 100 bucks or so nets them another 30 plus percent without a lot of effort. Everybody is an expert now days, it is just the way it is.
If someone walks up and asked me what i got to have for this 900 dollar item i usually reply i have looked and priced it at what i feel is a fair price for the condition and what others go for. I will ask them how they value the item. If they offer 50 cents on the dollar i just tell them there is no way we can come to an agreement and thanks. I do not mind listening to why you value it at xx but if you start nitpicking it is a turnoff to me.
I can usually just look at a dealer and his stuff and decide without every saying a word if i could buy or sell something to or from him.
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<< <i>
<< <i>People can explain all they want about strategy but nothing beats doing it firsthand or watching the pros do it. Take a trip to Asia and hang around the night markets for a few days or tag along with a buddy to the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul and watch. More effective than having a dozen people explain it to death. >>
Have to disagree. I spent three hours in Morocco thirty years ago haggling over a carpet in the Arabic language. Culturally, this sort of thing is / was accepted and expected over there. It is NOT culturally accepted and expected here. This sort of thing is part of the way of life in the Maghreb and other places. Not here.
As Ahren's Dad put it, ask a best price, then pass or play. >>
110% agree with this. I have gone to Asian countries, where bartering and haggling is the norm. Same for selling/buying with folks from India.
It's the norm there. It is something "fun" to do here, at the right times/places.
When I am selling, if someone tries to go overboard on haggling, I just cut it off. No desire to sell to them (not just coins, but other items I have sold and some folks try to push too hard).
I am fairly easy going on a lot of things, but culturally, if you push too far, I shut it down.
Understanding the audience is key. Understanding what they need is key.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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#2. Decide what it is worth to you.
#3. Ask what they need for it.
#4. Use the counteroffer option sparingly, and don't make dumb counteroffers like one half of advise numbers 1 and 2. Usually if you are not within 10% of the asking price, it's best to forget it.
#5. I buy a lot of stuff at shows, but I rarely make counteroffers.
#6. Avoid getting the "cheapskate" reputation at all costs.
1. How badly do you want the coin?
2. How long have you been looking for it?
3. How long do you think it might be until you find a comparable one?
4. How many other buyers might be looking for it?
5. Does the seller typically have coins for sale that you like?
6. Would you like to be at or near the front of the line when the seller gets new inventory in?
7. Do you mind being labelled "cheap" by the seller?
That's just off the top of my head- I'm sure there are others.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think you ask, "what's your best price on X". At that point it's generally play or pass. You may get one more swipe with a counteroffer, but probably not. >>
From a dealer's perspective, when a customer asks for my "best price", I give the customer that price.
If the customer counteroffers, haven't I have already given my best price?
I used to agree with this a long time ago, but i do not think alot believe in this anymore. They have watched to many of the new reality shows. I know what quite a few of my friends pay for stuff at their pawnshops, gun stores and it is pennies on the buck. I do the same thing but i am willing to pay a little more on stuff that comes my way. I watched a guy heading to football camp in New England walk out of a gun store with 2200 bucks in his pocket. He sold them 2 ar-15's, 1 ar 10. a desert eagle 50 pistol and a 1911 pistol. They were nice clean and decked out. I was leaving as he was and said to him it kind of sux what he got for the guns. His reply was he could not take them with him and he did not feel comfortable leaving them behind and besides he got a good contract so.... They will be in the gun cases next week marked up to around the going rate. I doubt the gun store would sell me 10k worth of guns for 2500 just because i know that they got in them. They know that in a reasonable amount of time some one will walk thru the door and pay for them.
When i set up at a show i go to sell, and move the goods. I will price it to spark intrest and below the others. When joe walks up offering half the asking price it is an instant turn off to me. I sell to a lot of the other dealers at close to what i ask. But if i did not have that table and tried to sell the same stuff to dealers i would be lowballed unless i have done something for them in the past. I do this a few times a year, there is no way i could put up with it on a weekly basis.
I see more and more people taking this approach of setting up to sell off their stuff. They know they can't walk in and sell to the B&M's or walk the shows and get more that 30 to 50 percent of retail so getting a table for 100 bucks or so nets them another 30 plus percent without a lot of effort. Everybody is an expert now days, it is just the way it is.
If someone walks up and asked me what i got to have for this 900 dollar item i usually reply i have looked and priced it at what i feel is a fair price for the condition and what others go for. I will ask them how they value the item. If they offer 50 cents on the dollar i just tell them there is no way we can come to an agreement and thanks. I do not mind listening to why you value it at xx but if you start nitpicking it is a turnoff to me.
I can usually just look at a dealer and his stuff and decide without every saying a word if i could buy or sell something to or from him. >>
Since both dealers and collectors are potential buyers/customers at a show, if one has 3 or 4 boxes of nice coins would one do better getting or sharing a table at the show rather than just walking them around to the various dealers set up at the show? Is a dealer likely to offer more if you have a table than if you don't?
<< <i>If I think it is a good deal for me, I just pay for it.
If not, I will ask for best price or "what can you do on..." and pass or play. If I pass, there is rarely discussion initiated by the other party. Often, I will say, "Okay, let me think about it, which usually means PASS."
(I learned that from my parents
I more or less agree with RYK above. I don't have the stomach for prolonged negotiations so I keep it simple:
- if the item is priced, I will ask "Can you take $X for it?" If the dealer counters, I'll consider it but I won't counter again.
- if the item is unpriced, I'll ask "What is the best you can do on this?" I may counter one time, but typically I'll either pass or pay that price.
- the BIG exception: if the item is a cherrypick, I pay the dealer's price, no negotiations necessary.
So if I'm at your table and not haggling with you, you probably missed something.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>You have to talk everybody down atleast 20 dollars below their bare minimum because it adds up to thousands of dollars overtime. >>
I'm not a dealer, but if I was you and me would never do any business whatsoever with that statement.
Oh, you folks make sure you are respectful and don't insult the dealers with your haggling. That's their job to do unto you.
Ah come on loosen up before you decide to flame me.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>respectfully. >>
that works wonders. of course now dont expect anything for nothing. have fun