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1872 proof seated dollar(1st post my pics on top, sellers middle,nikon photos last with grade update
michiganboy
Posts: 1,246 ✭✭
Just received this today, has a some light hairlines in right field and two individual ones in left field, good mirrors in hand but not cam. Was hoping for a pr64, but probably a 61 after seeing it in hand. Paid AU money for it, so I feel good about winning this
>>
Now in a PCGS PR63 holder
>>Now in a PCGS PR63 holder
Positive BST transactions:michaeldixon,nibanny,
type2,CCHunter.
type2,CCHunter.
0
Comments
paid au for a proof...cha-ching...congrats
sweet looking example too
so like are you working on a proof seated hoard???
How is the color / luster on the coin? The bottom part of each coin has a washed-out look, which could just be the image, not the coin.
I take it you bought this coin raw, which if this is the case, may be a mistake. If it is raw, there's a good reason for it. Maybe it's just me, but the color just doesn't look right.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
-Paul
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Just received this today, has a some light hairlines in right field and two individual ones in left field, good mirrors in hand but not cam. Was hoping for a pr64, but probably a 61 after seeing it in hand. Paid AU money for it, so I feel good about winning this >>
Looks like another Genuine Only holder is in your imminent future...
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<< <i>Just received this today, has a some light hairlines in right field and two individual ones in left field, good mirrors in hand but not cam. Was hoping for a pr64, but probably a 61 after seeing it in hand. Paid AU money for it, so I feel good about winning this >>
Looks like another Genuine Only holder is in your imminent future...
Got anymore haterade, I think you should drink more. Just like TDN said my minor coins weren't proofs and abitofthisandthat said a bunch of au's and genuine grades for the set.
type2,CCHunter.
When you bottom fish, sometimes you get lucky - but more often than not, you get what you pay for. In this instance, it looks like a decent coin that may or may not be market acceptable for the toning.
<< <i>I said your minor coins didn't look like proofs - which they did not in the images that you posted.
When you bottom fish, sometimes you get lucky - but more often than not, you get what you pay for. In this instance, it looks like a decent coin that may or may not be market acceptable for the toning. >>
The example is just that, Point being is a lot of people here seem to hate on anything not in plastic. I could buy the coins slabbed, but for me the fun is in the hunt. Like I said before this is a hobby to me not a investment.
Edited to add I'm not gonna buy anything I feel is AT and this coin in hand and from the rest of the sellers pics to me says album toning from old sulfur containing albums. I could be wrong though, but to me the coin is nice for $1356.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Got anymore haterade, I think you should drink more. Just like TDN said my minor coins weren't proofs and abitofthisandthat said a bunch of au's and genuine grades for the set.
I just see a pattern evolving of tossing more good money at bad prior to getting a grasp that there's no such thing as Santa, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy in numismatics.
This seated dollar wasn't winning anything as you most likely paid fair market value.
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<< <i>Got anymore haterade, I think you should drink more. Just like TDN said my minor coins weren't proofs and abitofthisandthat said a bunch of au's and genuine grades for the set.
I just see a pattern evolving of tossing more good money at bad prior to getting a grasp that there's no such thing as Santa, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy in numismatics.
This seated dollar wasn't winning anything as you most likely paid fair market value. >>
Paid $1356, and stopped believing in Santa and the rest when I was four I think.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Got anymore haterade, I think you should drink more. Just like TDN said my minor coins weren't proofs and abitofthisandthat said a bunch of au's and genuine grades for the set.
I just see a pattern evolving of tossing more good money at bad prior to getting a grasp that there's no such thing as Santa, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy in numismatics.
This seated dollar wasn't winning anything as you most likely paid fair market value. >>
Paid $1356, and stopped believing in Santa and the rest when I was four I think. >>
A quick perusal of Heritage archives shows that full retail depending upon how it grades out will be between $1k and $2k. What some here are trying to get across to you, if I may be so bold as to interpret, is that a problem coin is always a problem coin and while it may seem to be a bargain, it rarely is. I suspect that you will start to heed their words after the joy of the chase wears off and it becomes time to get hard cash offers on some of the stuff that you are acquiring.
Based upon the first set of pics, I feel it's not market acceptable. That look is too easily recreated by a wide range of skill levels. The second set of pics appear to show a much nicer example that may grade out.
[edited to state that you have now switched the order of the pics. To be specific, the blue pic does not look MA to me]
A quick perusal of Heritage archives shows that full retail depending upon how it grades out will be between $1k and $2k. What some here are trying to get across to you, if I may be so bold as to interpret, is that a problem coin is always a problem coin and while it may seem to be a bargain, it rarely is. I suspect that you will start to heed their words after the joy of the chase wears off and it becomes time to get hard cash offers on some of the stuff that you are acquiring. >>
Heritage is actually where I started looking before I bought this coin, all the coin that went for under $2000 are nowhere as nice as my coin and even some of the pr64 have a lot of hits and marks on the devices and fields. If color is the only aspect of this coin getting a genuine I see no point in not dipping it cause it matches nothing unlike my set. I always look at lots of the high resolution photos on heritage to compare. I don't see any of the 1872 coins I own as being problem coins. The genuine grades for my set where due to toning being overly dark according to rep at PCGS and I plan on taking them to long beach when I can to have them looked at because the set has matched original toning and I still feel they can grade.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Edited to add I'm not gonna buy anything I feel is AT and this coin in hand and from the rest of the sellers pics to me says album toning from old sulfur containing albums.
Based upon the first set of pics, I feel it's not market acceptable. That look is too easily recreated by a wide range of skill levels. The second set of pics appear to show a much nicer example that may grade out. >>
Seller was not a coin person and had no idea it was a proof and also sold other parts of the set to other buyers before I noticed them. I feel like I said the toning is album with high sulfur content, but could be wrong.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>A quick perusal of Heritage archives shows that full retail depending upon how it grades out will be between $1k and $2k. What some here are trying to get across to you, if I may be so bold as to interpret, is that a problem coin is always a problem coin and while it may seem to be a bargain, it rarely is. I suspect that you will start to heed their words after the joy of the chase wears off and it becomes time to get hard cash offers on some of the stuff that you are acquiring. >>
Heritage is actually where I started looking before I bought this coin, all the coin that went for under $2000 are nowhere as nice as my coin and even some of the pr64 have a lot of hits and marks on the devices and fields. If color is the only aspect of this coin getting a genuine I see no point in not dipping it cause it matches nothing unlike my set. I always look at lots of the high resolution photos on heritage to compare. I don't see any of the 1872 coins I own as being problem coins. The genuine grades for my set where due to toning being overly dark according to rep at PCGS and I plan on taking them to long beach when I can to have them looked at because the set has matched original toning and I still feel they can grade. >>
Ok, now you are really showing your inexperience. Hits on a PR64 hurt the grade much less than mishandling due to a cleaning. Even if the coin has toned that way due to a sulphur impregrnated holder, the fact that it looks the way it does shows that it was more than likely cleaned in the past. That's how that muddy blue comes about instead of the much more desirable electric blue.
Open your mind and listen to the grades that you are getting rather than questioning their expertise. The graders are trying to tell you something.
Open your mind and listen to the grades that you are getting rather than questioning their expertise. The graders are trying to tell you something. >>
The ugly coins I'm seeing in 64 are not gonna be seen as more eye appealing then this coin just because of the toning ring that can be dipped off. It has probably been dipped, but other then the few hairlines shows no signs on a cleaning other then a dip. I will always feel that grading is subjective and not the end all of it, just look at the puttied gold liberty that just got returned to great collections. The buyer bought it because of the plastic, I have to believe that grading is subjective other wise stuff like that well you know. All my proofs so far have been called beautiful by the people I show them to including my local B & M who's family has been in business since 65. They even went as far as to say my proof set looked original and could not believe it got the environmental damage code on four of them. He spent a good while looking at them with a loupe, so its not like he just said yeah those are nice.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Ok, now you are really showing your inexperience. Hits on a PR64 hurt the grade much less than mishandling due to a cleaning. Even if the coin has toned that way due to a sulphur impregrnated holder, the fact that it looks the way it does shows that it was more than likely cleaned in the past. That's how that muddy blue comes about instead of the much more desirable electric blue.
Open your mind and listen to the grades that you are getting rather than questioning their expertise. The graders are trying to tell you something. >>
The ugly coins I'm seeing in 64 are not gonna be seen as more eye appealing then this coin just because of the toning ring that can be dipped off. It has probably been dipped, but other then the few hairlines shows no signs on a cleaning other then a dip. I will always feel that grading is subjective and not the end all of it, just look at the puttied gold liberty that just got returned to great collections. The buyer bought it because of the plastic, I have to believe that grading is subjective other wise stuff like that well you know. All my proofs so far have been called beautiful by the people I show them to including my local B & M who's family has been in business since 65. They even went as far as to say my proof set looked original and could not believe it got the environmental damage code on four of them. He spent a good while looking at them with a loupe, so its not like he just said yeah those are nice. >>
What did he offer to pay for it?
Artificial toning cannot just be dipped off leaving an otherwise pristine coin - get that notion out of your head. And the coin does show signs of a cleaning if you know what you are looking at. I definitely suggest that when you are in Long Beach that you spend the first day just asking what people will pay for your coins - no stories, no "oh, I'm not really wanting to sell them" lines. Just go up to the tables and state "I'm looking for a firm offer on these". The results will be educational one way or the other.
Classic proof coins are not graded with a loupe. I doubt I've ever used a loupe on one in my lifetime.
Take your set in and let us know what he offers you - cold, hard cash wise.
Artificial toning cannot just be dipped off leaving an otherwise pristine coin - get that notion out of your head. And the coin does show signs of a cleaning if you know what you are looking at. I definitely suggest that when you are in Long Beach that you spend the first day just asking what people will pay for your coins - no stories, no "oh, I'm not really wanting to sell them" lines. Just go up to the tables and state "I'm looking for a firm offer on these". The results will be educational one way or the other. >>
The coins are not for sale I was just down at his shop to show them to him. As for the cleaning why don't you educate us then and tell me where and what you see. The coin in hand is flawless except for what I mention in hairlines and a nick on knee. Dipping can remove the toning and I know it removes layers, but people do it all the time to these kinds of coins. As far as asking for offers at long beach I have no need to ask for offers from dealers who are gonna pull out a grey sheet and offer something laughable, Have you seen the prices spreads on seated proofs from the CDN to what actually gets realized at auctions, even Ebay.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>He spent a good while looking at them with a loupe, so its not like he just said yeah those are nice
Classic proof coins are not graded with a loupe. I doubt I've ever used a loupe on one in my lifetime.
Take your set in and let us know what he offers you - cold, hard cash wise. >>
I've seen plenty of people use a loupe for classic proofs, somethings are easier to asses like the surface under magnification.
type2,CCHunter.
Don't believe everything a seller, especially an eBay seller tells you. There are no free rides in numismatics. if you believe a coin is "fresh" every time a seller tells you it is you will be out of luck in a hurry.
Also from someone who has personally inspected, been offered and handled similar coins for most of their career (me), don't even think about dipping that coin. If you do you'll turn the coin from a borderline passable coin into an unsalable coin.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>What did he offer to pay for it?
Artificial toning cannot just be dipped off leaving an otherwise pristine coin - get that notion out of your head. And the coin does show signs of a cleaning if you know what you are looking at. I definitely suggest that when you are in Long Beach that you spend the first day just asking what people will pay for your coins - no stories, no "oh, I'm not really wanting to sell them" lines. Just go up to the tables and state "I'm looking for a firm offer on these". The results will be educational one way or the other. >>
The coins are not for sale I was just down at his shop to show them to him. As for the cleaning why don't you educate us then and tell me where and what you see. The coin in hand is flawless except for what I mention in hairlines and a nick on knee. Dipping can remove the toning and I know it removes layers, but people do it all the time to these kinds of coins. As far as asking for offers at long beach I have no need to ask for offers from dealers who are gonna pull out a grey sheet and offer something laughable, Have you seen the prices spreads on seated proofs from the CDN to what actually gets realized at auctions, even Ebay. >>
Your mind is closed. Asking for offers at LB would be VERY educational. Your B&M dealer is most likely blowing smoke where the sun don't shine hoping that you stay uneducated and buy from him - a permanent cash cow.
Table #540
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
He sells to me a wholesale greysheet bid and losses money on selling to me when he can sell it on Ebay, Which he also does. You where wrong about the minor coins in the proof set not being proof, which is obviously what you thought, that is why you posted it. You can't always be right and grading and authenticating from photos to boot.
Edited to remove snarky comment on my behalf
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Your mind is closed. Asking for offers at LB would be VERY educational. Your B&M dealer is most likely blowing smoke where the sun don't shine hoping that you stay uneducated and buy from him - a permanent cash cow. >>
He sells to me a wholesale greysheet bid and losses money on selling to me when he can sell it on Ebay, Which he also does. You where wrong about the minor coins in the proof set not being proof, which is obviously what you thought, that is why you posted it. You can't always be right and grading and authenticating from photos to boot, give me a break your highness. >>
Yawn. Good luck to you in numismatics - you're gonna need it! Either that or a trust fund.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Welll everthing I have sold so far I've made money on. Not much though, 1878 cc morgan bought for $250 sold for $400, 1891 $10 silver cert. paid $310 sold $600. So I guess I'm not so unlucky.
type2,CCHunter.
I have no dog in this fight, but please do yourself one favor. Most peope who feel backed into a corner strike back, it is a natural event. I know you
don't know "his highness" TDN, but this man owns and has held in his hands more beautiful specimens of all the Early Dollar coins you can imagine. He
is not trying to bait you nor embarass you, but before you make enemies with less than thought out replies, step back and read all the posted replies and
try to disregard thoughts of offense and accept them as offers of learning. Whether they are right or not, doesn't matter, as you will find out on your own
in the near future, at least as far as this coin goes. I personally think the coin is gorgeous, but I am not the one you want advice from. You would not have
posted without wishing for advice, so take it or leave it, but please don't take it offensively. We all have a learning curve in our past and in our future. If you
take no other advice than show it at LB and ask for offers. Ask 5 major dealers and you will a much better feel for where you are at.
I truly wish you the best in this endeavor and others.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>TDN,
please give up and spend your valuable time with someone who will appreciate your expertise! I crindge on every reply that I read, op has no clue and is clueless on how lucky he is that you have taken the time to try to educate him, what a shame!
Please, I asked him to educate us, show us the cleaning I asked instead he slings insults. You I would not expect to take sides, but oh well. No one every brings back up the fact of the very people who have this following here have made their mistakes and even in recent threads just like I pointed out. I see people like TDN be wrong and it disappears off the radar and every ones still like listen to these guys they're always right
type2,CCHunter.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Ahh, let it go TDN. You already know the old saying about denial. It ain't just a river in Egypt. >>
It is quite obvious from your immature responses here as to exactly what you think of yourself. Keep digging that hole.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>"I seen his some of his collection online, it does not make him the final judge of all coins and I've seen him be wrong before. Look at his chosen title, that alone says a lot of what he thinks of himself"
It is quite obvious from your immature responses here as to exactly what you think of yourself. Keep digging that hole.
That funny most of my responses where decent till he called me a someones cash cow and the rest of his insults. I will probably continue to be addressed as being the immature. Let me refresh your memory.
When you bottom fish, sometimes you get lucky - but more often than not, you get what you pay for. In this instance, it looks like a decent coin that may or may not be market acceptable for the toning.
So I'm a bottom fisher.
our B&M dealer is most likely blowing smoke where the sun don't shine hoping that you stay uneducated and buy from him - a permanent cash cow. >>
And I'm basically an uneducated cash cow.
Just to make things clear I never said TDN was inexperienced, just not always right. It seems though he can belittle people, and then I'm immature for not wanting to hear anything from someone who jumped in my last thread and was wrong. We all know he wouldn't of said Is it just me or are the minor coins not proofs? If he didn't think so. Well they all are proofs and that is why I'd have to say He is very opinionated, but not always right.
type2,CCHunter.
Another insult, a boy. Read my other post he slung insults when I did not agree, don't sound as mature as you make it seem.
type2,CCHunter.
Good Luck !!!
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<< <i>
<< <i>Just received this today, has a some light hairlines in right field and two individual ones in left field, good mirrors in hand but not cam. Was hoping for a pr64, but probably a 61 after seeing it in hand. Paid AU money for it, so I feel good about winning this >>
Looks like another Genuine Only holder is in your imminent future...
Got anymore haterade, I think you should drink more. Just like TDN said my minor coins weren't proofs and abitofthisandthat said a bunch of au's and genuine grades for the set.
I stand by my call - a set of mostly impaired proofs that you were lucky that graded as well as they did.
I can express no opinion on your newp from the photos.
merse
type2,CCHunter.
I can express no opinion on your newp from the photos. >>
One question? So why say you can with the others then? My photos of the others are way more sub standard, then these new ones. Not trying to stir pot, Sorry again just hard not to ask this question for me.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just received this today, has a some light hairlines in right field and two individual ones in left field, good mirrors in hand but not cam. Was hoping for a pr64, but probably a 61 after seeing it in hand. Paid AU money for it, so I feel good about winning this >>
Looks like another Genuine Only holder is in your imminent future...
Got anymore haterade, I think you should drink more. Just like TDN said my minor coins weren't proofs and abitofthisandthat said a bunch of au's and genuine grades for the set.
I stand by my call - a set of mostly impaired proofs that you were lucky that graded as well as they did.
I can express no opinion on your newp from the photos. >>
One question? So why say you can with the others then? My photos of the others are way more sub standard, then these new ones. Not trying to stir pot, Sorry again just hard not to ask this question for me. >>
The photos of your set showed obvious environmental damage. Dark, dark toning that impaired the mirrors (I know you think they are fine), and I am suprised the minor coins graded as high as they did. Yes, the photos were not good, but the issues were still clearly visible.
The current coin does not have a similar, glaring issue. However, if the hairlines will rise to the level of a no grade for cleaning, I would need to see in hand - even a slight change in angle of photo/lighting will make hairlines disappear on the photo of a proof.
merse
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>Here's a question for the bunch: Why would anyone go to the trouble of artificially toning a coin that has significant intrinsic value already? >>
To make more money
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