DDR if you ever come across another 78-CC chop mark I would be highly interested in it. I would really like to add one to my 78-CC collection but I know it's going to be very, very hard to find.
Well, as long as we're calling this a massive trade dollar thread (awesome) I'll post my latest beauty, one that I'm very excited about. Some of you may have noticed I'm selling a 75p in XF40 on the BST, well here's why:
PCGS AU53
I had a really hard time capturing the color and luster, so here are a few angled shots. This coin stretches me past my level of photography expertise.
These second two shots still don't really capture it, oh well I tried.
Edit to add one more shot of the reverse die cracks on this coin:
Beautiful 75-P! That original skin hides the luster pretty effectively; how fortunate that some dipper didn't get hold of it!
Here's my 78-cc, a gennie as you can see where someone tried to use a pin to scratch off something on the lower right obv. I would love to have a chopmarked example; DDR's example is really neat.
Thanks for the comments. Dan: These are extremely difficult to find. I purchased mine about 12 years ago and am not aware that any other have appeared on the market since then.
<< <i>Just got this one from Crypto. It is a FS-301 with the repunched date. Thought it was kind of cool. >>
Nice 77-s RPD 123cents. That coin is not easy to find, especially because it means you have to sort through the gazillion other 77-S out there to find one
<< <i>Thanks for the comments. Dan: These are extremely difficult to find. I purchased mine about 12 years ago and am not aware that any other have appeared on the market since then. >>
I would give up a lot for one, as I'm sure you did, and I'm sure others would also.
Between Keoj, TDN and a few others here, it is astounding how many nice trade dollars are collectively owned by forum members here. This thread is evidence of that. Great job guys, keep them coming!
I have a small crush on the 76 and my side collection-within-a-collection is I'm trying to complete a set of all the different 76 varieties including proofs. That's a good 9 or 10 coins right there!
Kaz your 76 looks like a proof to me, if not for the die cracks. This the 76 phillies were all over the place and I'd kill for a journal of what actually happened at the mint that year.
The following mini-hoard of 1878-S Trade Dollars is one of the many highlights offered in the 1990 ANA Sale. The story behind their discovery and inclusion in this sale is incredible. The consignor, (who we will call "Jim") one of the nicest and most pleasant people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, had elderly next door neighbors that he was very close to. He would help and befriend them whenever the opportunity arose. Little did "Jim" know what was in store. Upon the death of the elderly couple, "Jim" was named executor of the estate - what little there seemed to be - and two requests were made; all financial instruments were to be left to a local university and all personal property would go to the executor. "Jim" went to the bank and opened the safe deposit box. Not expecting to see a great deal, he was taken back by the wealth before his eyes. The wealth however appeared to be all financial and thus left to the university. Among the tens of thousands of dollars in stocks and bonds there was also over $1 million in bearer bonds. Upon removal of all the papers, on the bottom of the drawer, just lying loose, were 25 1878-S Trade Dollars! As wonderful as this seemed, there was a dilemma. Were the coins "financial " and thus property of the university, or were they personal and thus the property of "Jim." After long discussions with the attorneys, it was decided that the coins would be divided equally - with 13 coins going to the university and the remaining 12 coins to "Jim."
The university immediately sold their coins to a local coin dealer. This dealer in turn sold them to a major west coast firm who submitted them to PCGS who in turn graded them mostly MS-65, with a few MS-64's and (2) MS-66. Point of fact: every known 1878-S Trade Dollar grading MS-65 or higher (at the time of this writing) can be traced back to this hoard of 25 coins. The only exception being the lone MS-67, which, as justice would have it, is also included in this incredible sale!
TDN, I don't know if you'd consider doing this, but I think it would be really neat to start a thread where you go through your trade dollars set coin by coin and tell us all about the coin. I love the stories behind a coin, stories of provenance, pedigree and even how you came to own the coin (the hunt, if you will). We all really appreciate the openness and access you've already provided to your coins and this would just be an extension of that. You could even do it here, or start a new thread.
The 78-S story you shared above is neat, I especially like to think about what other coins are as yet "undiscovered" while reading it. Not only were these coins tucked away for so long, but this one is just beautiful.
That's a good idea. Perhaps the ones with good stories anyways. Here's another:
Marc Emory’s Special Coin
Professional numismatist Marc Emory related the following concerning an especially nice 1875 trade dollar:
"As far as trade dollars go, there is a rather famous one I have handled (you did, too at one time), whose pedigree sounds like an old coin dealer’s tall tale: In early February 1975, I was still living in Philadelphia after graduating from college the year before. Early one morning, Bob Riethe, who had a coin shop out in Plymouth Meeting Mall, called me up to crow about the finest trade dollar he had ever seen. He said he had just bought it from Alan Woglom in Chalfont, Pennsylvania for $600—no small sum at the time. He also said it was an 1875 Philadelphia Mint coin. I said to cut out the nonsense, and to tell me what it was he really wanted to talk to me about. He swore it was no joke, so I drove out there swearing plagues upon his house if this was an early April Fool. Furthermore, he owed me $1,240 at the time.
"I arrived at his shop, wading through the snow and slush of the parking lot, and came to his counter in a mood which can politely be described as less than jovial. To boot, he kept me waiting for ten minutes to explain to someone why common silver dollars were common, and that he couldn’t pay $20 for 1922 Peace dollars in VF grade. Finally, he pulled out the coin in question. All was forgiven—provided he realized I wasn’t going to leave his shop without the coin. The 1875 trade dollar he showed me was (and remains today) one of the most exquisite U.S. silver coins I have ever seen. I finally badgered him into letting me have it in lieu of all the money he owed me. I sold it (I wasn’t too flush those days), to my great regret, to Maurice Rosen for $1,900. Maurice worked for First Coinvestors at that time. Maurice left FCI soon after that, and the coin soon appeared in one of their Pine Tree auctions. It was bought by Numismatic Associates of Ashland, Mass. for $3000+ and sold to A.H. Lamborn. His collection was sold (here’s where you come in) as the "Fairfield Collection" by your firm in 1977. The coin brought in excess of $7,000 this time.
"I lost track of it after that, as I was spending most of my time overseas by now. I did see it appear later in an ad by Jack Hertzberg, enclosed in a PCGS holder and graded a conservative MS-68. Where it is now, I don’t know, but someone should be happy with it. To this day it remains one of the two favorite silver coins I ever owned (the other was an 1855-S half dollar that went into James Pryor’s collection)."
Edited to add: I paid 6 figures for the coin in early 1997 out of a Heritage auction in a rattler MS68 holder. It's the coin that I've owned the longest in my set. If dipped, I could see it in a 69 holder - but it's not gonna happen on my watch.
Wellllllll, honestly, it wouldn't bother me too much. The reason being that the coin would come out amazing. I'm head over heels in love with the Norweb 1794 dollar and it was recently dipped. Sometimes, a light dip is not the worst thing in the world.
I have an amazing double struck in collar 75s with 90% of rotation and lots of detail remaining that is currently raw but came out of an unattributed PCGS MS62 chop mark holder and it is amazing choice. This would be the perfect thread to showcase it but alas I have no pictures. I will get todd on it in late june before sending back in. I just wish the last dealer didn't crack it out to inspect it when he discovered what he had. The whole point of a pcgs holder is to allow up close inspection I will be salty if it comes back in a AU58 holder since it was in one of the older blue holders tha listed series number and what not. When I get back to dc I will add a proper post to this thread. A trade thread with over 100 post is super cool
<< <i>Wellllllll, honestly, it wouldn't bother me too much. The reason being that the coin would come out amazing. I'm head over heels in love with the Norweb 1794 dollar and it was recently dipped. Sometimes, a light dip is not the worst thing in the world. >>
But, but, that pastel patina will be gone forever
However, I do see your point that the coin would look spectacular after a quick, controlled dip.
<< <i>I have an amazing double struck in collar 75s with 90% of rotation and lots of detail remaining that is currently raw but came out of an unattributed PCGS MS62 chop mark holder and it is amazing choice. This would be the perfect thread to showcase it but alas I have no pictures. I will get todd on it in late june before sending back in. I just wish the last dealer didn't crack it out to inspect it when he discovered what he had. The whole point of a pcgs holder is to allow up close inspection I will be salty if it comes back in a AU58 holder since it was in one of the older blue holders tha listed series number and what not. When I get back to dc I will add a proper post to this thread. A trade thread with over 100 post is super cool >>
Sounds good Crypto, let's keep this thread going it's like our own trade dollar forum. Can't wait to see pics of that double struck trade.
Does anyone else have any interesting trade dollar error coins, other than the known varieties?
I have one Trade dollar error coin. It's a 75-S that appears to have been struck through a burlap bag on the reverse. Sadly, I don't have a picture of it.
Type 1/1- Tremendously Rare and one of the crown jewels of my set. Most of the type 1/1 75p's I know about are (admittedly not a scientific measurement) Chop Marked and there are only a dozen or so of those known. I like my 75p's with die cracks to avoid any confusion with the Proofs as so many come PL and quite a few I have seen in TPG holder were IMO impaired proofs. Despite the XF45 holder the coin is a nice AU50 and it retains unimpaired light PL flash and full luster. I consider this a lock as a business strike with these clues-- 1) Small Die crack from the olive branch throw stars 5 & 6 on the Obv, 2) A Die Crack running through the top of the letters in UNITED & STATES on the Rev 3) weak-ish overall strike on Lib's head, stars, eagles right leg & claw and the E in the scroll on the Rev, 4) rounded Obv Rim & rounded Rev letters 5) overall look with lack of deep mirrors. Further study needs to be done on a patch of unpolished die around the right claw of the eagle which is know on many Type 1 Rev's and probably form the master hub.
Transitional type 1-2/2; The Lightly rubbed proof has a type 1 Obverse that was reworked by hand to appear more like a type 2 Obv for the striking of proof coins for a very limited run a the Philly mint. It is unknown to the reasons why but one can speculate that it was a trail or a type one Rev die that was left over chronologically after the 2nd Obv type was instituted and they "Good enough it" to press it into service at the last min. As it is, it has the 4 finger hand of the Type 2 Obv with all other parts (note Liberty ribbon) in line with a type 1 Obv. Nice Cir Proof-Original that sits in a PCGS PF58 holder
Some great coin stories here! I am supprized to hear that so few gem 78-S coins exist, I would have thought them to be more common. I do feel bad for "Jim" who after passing a million to the university was only allowed to keep $13 for himself.
The latest addition to my collection and another hole filled in the 76p set. Again, struggled to showcase the little remaining luster underneath the beautiful original skin.
TDN, your 76p Type 1/1 is nice and all, but the reverse letters aren't broken on mine
Comments
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
PCGS AU53
I had a really hard time capturing the color and luster, so here are a few angled shots. This coin stretches me past my level of photography expertise.
These second two shots still don't really capture it, oh well I tried.
Edit to add one more shot of the reverse die cracks on this coin:
Here's my 78-cc, a gennie as you can see where someone tried to use a pin to scratch off something on the lower right obv. I would love to have a chopmarked example; DDR's example is really neat.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
<< <i>Just got this one from Crypto. It is a FS-301 with the repunched date. Thought it was kind of cool. >>
Nice 77-s RPD 123cents. That coin is not easy to find, especially because it means you have to sort through the gazillion other 77-S out there to find one
<< <i>Thanks for the comments. Dan: These are extremely difficult to find. I purchased mine about 12 years ago and am not aware that any other have appeared on the market since then. >>
I would give up a lot for one, as I'm sure you did, and I'm sure others would also.
<< <i>@TDN - doesn't your 1876 look a lot like the Hayes 1866 in terms of color and eye appeal? >>
No - that coin was creamy white with peripheral toning.
<< <i>This thread made me salivate more than I did when I saw dinner tonight. >>
You're not the only one, we have to at least keep this thread going until Crypto gets back.
1875-CC Type 1/2 PCGS AU55 with some wild toning. Crossed from of an old NGC 58 holder. Weakly struck as most of these are.
AB
keoj
AB's proof and keoj's DDR... superb!
for a thread bumper, here's my somewhat prooflike 76-p
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
I have a small crush on the 76 and my side collection-within-a-collection is I'm trying to complete a set of all the different 76 varieties including proofs. That's a good 9 or 10 coins right there!
Kaz your 76 looks like a proof to me, if not for the die cracks. This the 76 phillies were all over the place and I'd kill for a journal of what actually happened at the mint that year.
MINI-HOARD OF 1878-S TRADE DOLLARS
The following mini-hoard of 1878-S Trade Dollars is one of the many highlights offered in the 1990 ANA Sale. The story behind their discovery and inclusion in this sale is incredible. The consignor, (who we will call "Jim") one of the nicest and most pleasant people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, had elderly next door neighbors that he was very close to. He would help and befriend them whenever the opportunity arose. Little did "Jim" know what was in store. Upon the death of the elderly couple, "Jim" was named executor of the estate - what little there seemed to be - and two requests were made; all financial instruments were to be left to a local university and all personal property would go to the executor. "Jim" went to the bank and opened the safe deposit box. Not expecting to see a great deal, he was taken back by the wealth before his eyes. The wealth however appeared to be all financial and thus left to the university. Among the tens of thousands of dollars in stocks and bonds there was also over $1 million in bearer bonds. Upon removal of all the papers, on the bottom of the drawer, just lying loose, were 25 1878-S Trade Dollars! As wonderful as this seemed, there was a dilemma. Were the coins "financial " and thus property of the university, or were they personal and thus the property of "Jim." After long discussions with the attorneys, it was decided that the coins would be divided equally - with 13 coins going to the university and the remaining 12 coins to "Jim."
The university immediately sold their coins to a local coin dealer. This dealer in turn sold them to a major west coast firm who submitted them to PCGS who in turn graded them mostly MS-65, with a few MS-64's and (2) MS-66. Point of fact: every known 1878-S Trade Dollar grading MS-65 or higher (at the time of this writing) can be traced back to this hoard of 25 coins. The only exception being the lone MS-67, which, as justice would have it, is also included in this incredible sale!
The 78-S story you shared above is neat, I especially like to think about what other coins are as yet "undiscovered" while reading it. Not only were these coins tucked away for so long, but this one is just beautiful.
Marc Emory’s Special Coin
Professional numismatist Marc Emory related the following concerning an especially nice 1875 trade dollar:
"As far as trade dollars go, there is a rather famous one I have handled (you did, too at one time), whose pedigree sounds like an old coin dealer’s tall tale: In early February 1975, I was still living in Philadelphia after graduating from college the year before. Early one morning, Bob Riethe, who had a coin shop out in Plymouth Meeting Mall, called me up to crow about the finest trade dollar he had ever seen. He said he had just bought it from Alan Woglom in Chalfont, Pennsylvania for $600—no small sum at the time. He also said it was an 1875 Philadelphia Mint coin. I said to cut out the nonsense, and to tell me what it was he really wanted to talk to me about. He swore it was no joke, so I drove out there swearing plagues upon his house if this was an early April Fool. Furthermore, he owed me $1,240 at the time.
"I arrived at his shop, wading through the snow and slush of the parking lot, and came to his counter in a mood which can politely be described as less than jovial. To boot, he kept me waiting for ten minutes to explain to someone why common silver dollars were common, and that he couldn’t pay $20 for 1922 Peace dollars in VF grade. Finally, he pulled out the coin in question. All was forgiven—provided he realized I wasn’t going to leave his shop without the coin. The 1875 trade dollar he showed me was (and remains today) one of the most exquisite U.S. silver coins I have ever seen. I finally badgered him into letting me have it in lieu of all the money he owed me. I sold it (I wasn’t too flush those days), to my great regret, to Maurice Rosen for $1,900. Maurice worked for First Coinvestors at that time. Maurice left FCI soon after that, and the coin soon appeared in one of their Pine Tree auctions. It was bought by Numismatic Associates of Ashland, Mass. for $3000+ and sold to A.H. Lamborn. His collection was sold (here’s where you come in) as the "Fairfield Collection" by your firm in 1977. The coin brought in excess of $7,000 this time.
"I lost track of it after that, as I was spending most of my time overseas by now. I did see it appear later in an ad by Jack Hertzberg, enclosed in a PCGS holder and graded a conservative MS-68. Where it is now, I don’t know, but someone should be happy with it. To this day it remains one of the two favorite silver coins I ever owned (the other was an 1855-S half dollar that went into James Pryor’s collection)."
Edited to add: I paid 6 figures for the coin in early 1997 out of a Heritage auction in a rattler MS68 holder. It's the coin that I've owned the longest in my set. If dipped, I could see it in a 69 holder - but it's not gonna happen on my watch.
<< <i>Great story! It should be a crime against the numismatic community for someone to dip that 75 philly >>
Tell that to the ms67 1893 s morgan
<< <i>
<< <i>Great story! It should be a crime against the numismatic community for someone to dip that 75 philly >>
Tell that to the ms67 1893 s morgan >>
I actually thought of that when I wrote the response
<< <i>Wellllllll, honestly, it wouldn't bother me too much. The reason being that the coin would come out amazing. I'm head over heels in love with the Norweb 1794 dollar and it was recently dipped. Sometimes, a light dip is not the worst thing in the world. >>
But, but, that pastel patina will be gone forever
However, I do see your point that the coin would look spectacular after a quick, controlled dip.
<< <i>I have an amazing double struck in collar 75s with 90% of rotation and lots of detail remaining that is currently raw but came out of an unattributed PCGS MS62 chop mark holder and it is amazing choice. This would be the perfect thread to showcase it but alas I have no pictures. I will get todd on it in late june before sending back in. I just wish the last dealer didn't crack it out to inspect it when he discovered what he had. The whole point of a pcgs holder is to allow up close inspection
Sounds good Crypto, let's keep this thread going it's like our own trade dollar forum. Can't wait to see pics of that double struck trade.
Does anyone else have any interesting trade dollar error coins, other than the known varieties?
keoj
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
Type 1/1- Tremendously Rare and one of the crown jewels of my set. Most of the type 1/1 75p's I know about are (admittedly not a scientific measurement) Chop Marked and there are only a dozen or so of those known. I like my 75p's with die cracks to avoid any confusion with the Proofs as so many come PL and quite a few I have seen in TPG holder were IMO impaired proofs. Despite the XF45 holder the coin is a nice AU50 and it retains unimpaired light PL flash and full luster. I consider this a lock as a business strike with these clues-- 1) Small Die crack from the olive branch throw stars 5 & 6 on the Obv, 2) A Die Crack running through the top of the letters in UNITED & STATES on the Rev 3) weak-ish overall strike on Lib's head, stars, eagles right leg & claw and the E in the scroll on the Rev, 4) rounded Obv Rim & rounded Rev letters 5) overall look with lack of deep mirrors. Further study needs to be done on a patch of unpolished die around the right claw of the eagle which is know on many Type 1 Rev's and probably form the master hub.
Transitional type 1-2/2; The Lightly rubbed proof has a type 1 Obverse that was reworked by hand to appear more like a type 2 Obv for the striking of proof coins for a very limited run a the Philly mint. It is unknown to the reasons why but one can speculate that it was a trail or a type one Rev die that was left over chronologically after the 2nd Obv type was instituted and they "Good enough it" to press it into service at the last min. As it is, it has the 4 finger hand of the Type 2 Obv with all other parts (note Liberty ribbon) in line with a type 1 Obv. Nice Cir Proof-Original that sits in a PCGS PF58 holder
I am supprized to hear that so few gem 78-S coins exist, I would have thought them to be more common.
I do feel bad for "Jim" who after passing a million to the university was only allowed to keep $13 for himself.
ebay link
<< <i>Looks like the ebay sellers have wised up after coolest's recent fortune.
ebay link >>
True but Coolest's sold at 2k, I am pretty sure they will never see north of 4k for that although it isn't that bad but the GEN 98 gives me caution.
TDN, your 76p Type 1/1 is nice and all, but the reverse letters aren't broken on mine