Howdy and welcome. If SB has stated that you will get an extra $1,000 on top of your refund then you will very likely get the extra $1,000 on top of the refund. In hindsight it is easy to point out isses that could have been avoided if either party performed a bit differently, but it appears that things will be fine within a few days. Hopefully, you will enjoy the boards.
First of all, , you've done the right thing. As far as trusting S/B, they are very reliable. They also have an interest in making things right because much of their customer base reads this forum, and ... Many of the heavy-weights of this forum have participated in this thread and certainly have your back. Keep sharing with us, it's surely interesting ("Don't call me Shirley...).
You think the story's over but it's ready to begin
This Beasties Boy lyric keeps popping in my head. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I'am RADEVINE and this ongoig thread concerns a problem i'am having with a 1900-O Barber Half Dollar MS65+ I purchased from StacksBowers on Monday May 1 and subsequent posting on eBay a few facts if I might although many of you if not most of you have convicted me of moral and ethical issues and called me every name in the book go ahead I can take it the only one I will respond to is DuPapa and you my freind are a pathetic excuse for a human being shame on you if I didn't know better I say you were in bed with StacksBowers am I right >>
Since you are new to these boards you may not have noticed that most of the post that DuPapa made that you seem to have taken offense to is in italics, indicating that it is a quote from a previous post. DuPapa was quoting lines from many other previous posts and asked if perhaps anyone might like to change their opinion. DuPapa seems to me to be one of the few that were on your side all along.
We have enough misunderstandings in this thread so I wanted to try and clear this one up. Maybe you should apologize and send him $1000 for his pain and suffering.
APOLOGY I would like to offer my sincerest apolgies to DuPapa. I'am new to these forums and really do not fully understand how they work please accept my apologies radevine
<< <i>Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho. Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Bochiman - here is my problem with the situation:
1) he's a numismatist with a long history of collecting high end coins in a different series. While he professes to not have looked up the exact value of an MS65 half of that date, he does admit to looking up the MS63 value. The MS63 value was more than TWICE the asking price and he's got enough experience to know that an MS65 is much more valuable than an MS63 [multiples] - even more so if it's unlisted as that means it's extremely rare.
2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering?
So while everyone can hand out laurels for him finally doing the right thing, it just doesn't smell right to me. And I'm calling a spade a spade.
"Hello, Bank of America? Yes, you made a clerical mistake and put $1,000,000 in my bank account. Yes, I realize that you want it back, but my wife likes it. Can we keep it? Would you take $200,000 so we can keep it? NO? Well, I'm going to have to consult a couple of attorneys about keeping MY $1,000,000."
<< <i>...2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering? >>
The disappointment of not getting a $15K coin for $1500.
To me, the really odd part of this whole scenario is the eBay rant. Why would anyone reveal their character flaws in such a public fashion? Amazing.
<<< 1) he's a numismatist with a long history of collecting high end coins in a different series. While he professes to not have looked up the exact value of an MS65 half of that date, he does admit to looking up the MS63 value. The MS63 value was more than TWICE the asking price and he's got enough experience to know that an MS65 is much more valuable than an MS63 [multiples] - even more so if it's unlisted as that means it's extremely rare.
2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering?
So while everyone can hand out laurels for him finally doing the right thing, it just doesn't smell right to me. And I'm calling a spade a spade. >>>
My thoughts exactly......among other remarks that also don't add up to me.
<< <i>My 2cs: The following is what strikes me as odd:
hold on my wife wantes to speak to you, good cop bad cop, >>
Geez, RO, the guy had a stroke in 2010 and has difficulty speaking. << I had a hard time talking I said that I had suffered a stroke in Oct 2010 and let him talk to my wife who was 2 feet from me ??
Just the fact that he made multiple calls to attorneys about keeping the coin says it all to me. This was no altruistic return - it was all based on the probability of spending more money and time than it was worth.
<< <i>My 2cs: The following is what strikes me as odd:
hold on my wife wantes to speak to you, good cop bad cop, >>
Geez, RO, the guy had a stroke in 2010 and has difficulty speaking. << I had a hard time talking I said that I had suffered a stroke in Oct 2010 and let him talk to my wife who was 2 feet from me ?? >>
Uhmmm - he was on the phone for 15-20 minutes when buying it trying to screw down the price even more.
I heard Stacks and Bowers is releasing a new book...called:
"Impractical Business Cents"
Regardless of the moral implication of just this one fellow, the business obviously needs a lot of cleaning up and some new oversight and/or managers involved.
<< <i>My wife told me not to trust them The coin was shipped yesterday USPS Express mail EI 522170504 US It was signed and delivered today at 12:09 PM PDT I'am still waiting for them to refund my money as of 11:00PM CDT tonight
What exactly is the hurry? It's going to your credit card - as long as the credit shows up before your next statement date, you're fine and dandy.
Oh - I forgot - you want an extra $1,000 for your "pain and suffering". >>
Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho. Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Cheap shots and TDN seem to go hand in hand , i wouldnt have thought so until i seen this thread.
<< <i>My wife told me not to trust them The coin was shipped yesterday USPS Express mail EI 522170504 US It was signed and delivered today at 12:09 PM PDT I'am still waiting for them to refund my money as of 11:00PM CDT tonight
What exactly is the hurry? It's going to your credit card - as long as the credit shows up before your next statement date, you're fine and dandy.
Oh - I forgot - you want an extra $1,000 for your "pain and suffering". >>
Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho. Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Cheap shots and TDN seem to go hand in hand , i wouldnt have thought so until i seen this thread. >>
TDN is the only member here who I've seen violate these two rules without being banned on more than one occasion:
Rule 3) Anyone attacking another poster or making disparaging personal remarks will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
Rule 4) Anyone making libelous remarks concerning any individual, any company, or any other entity will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
<< <i>Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho. Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Bochiman - here is my problem with the situation:
1) he's a numismatist with a long history of collecting high end coins in a different series. While he professes to not have looked up the exact value of an MS65 half of that date, he does admit to looking up the MS63 value. The MS63 value was more than TWICE the asking price and he's got enough experience to know that an MS65 is much more valuable than an MS63 [multiples] - even more so if it's unlisted as that means it's extremely rare.
2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering?
So while everyone can hand out laurels for him finally doing the right thing, it just doesn't smell right to me. And I'm calling a spade a spade. >>
Have to agree with 1). Collectors of gem bust coinage know that 63 to 65 is typically a triple to quadruple in price (nice icon coin!) And for a better date, the ratio is often larger. That same type of ratio is the norm with 19th century silver coinage. 4 x $3500 would have been a simple estimate for the value of a MS65. This one is a 65+ to boot. At some point I would have asked salesman GN what's up here, the price doesn't seem to make sense? At that point 2 minutes of on-line searching would have nailed down the price of a MS65. Let's face it, dealers typically don't sell MS63 Barber halves for <50% price guide....that should have raised some red flags on its own. But here was a MS65+ at 47% of MS63 money. And then trying to negotiate the price of the coin lower than $1650? My next question would be what about the pain and suffering to salesman GN? This all could have been easily avoided by asking GN additional questions. I suspect 99.9% of experienced numismatists would have done so. I'd be curious as to how this particular coin was written up in the S/B on line inventory. But it is great that it will be resolved.
<< <i>My wife told me not to trust them The coin was shipped yesterday USPS Express mail EI 522170504 US It was signed and delivered today at 12:09 PM PDT I'am still waiting for them to refund my money as of 11:00PM CDT tonight
What exactly is the hurry? It's going to your credit card - as long as the credit shows up before your next statement date, you're fine and dandy.
Oh - I forgot - you want an extra $1,000 for your "pain and suffering". >>
Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho. Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Cheap shots and TDN seem to go hand in hand , i wouldnt have thought so until i seen this thread. >>
Where is that eyeroll emoticon when you need it? Yours was more of a cheap shot than anything I've posted here.
<< <i>My wife told me not to trust them The coin was shipped yesterday USPS Express mail EI 522170504 US It was signed and delivered today at 12:09 PM PDT I'am still waiting for them to refund my money as of 11:00PM CDT tonight
What exactly is the hurry? It's going to your credit card - as long as the credit shows up before your next statement date, you're fine and dandy.
Oh - I forgot - you want an extra $1,000 for your "pain and suffering". >>
Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho. Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Cheap shots and TDN seem to go hand in hand , i wouldnt have thought so until i seen this thread. >>
Where is that eyeroll emoticon when you need it? Yours was more of a cheap shot than anything I've posted here. >>
Perhaps you'd do well to reread some of your comments , personally i don't think it's anything more than a waste of my time pandering to your posts with replys so i'll leave you to throw rocks at a guy who did absolutely nothig wrong and has the guts to stand up to these slurs , good luck to you Beautifulmind and good day to you TDN.
I was on the phoine with G.N. for 15-20 minutes and our conversation was general in nature and we discussed everything BUT the coin price for about 19 minutes and 45 seconds we discussed the price for 15 SECONDS lets get our facts straight shall we
I think many folks on these boards are the sophisticated collectors and that there may be many other there, who haven't been on the boards, that have been "collectors" for years, and call themselves veteran collectors, that maybe aren't.
So, we are now taking the seller's word from his ebay posting that he is some expert collector? No one here has met him, nor interacted with him, yet everyone is glomming onto that BECAUSE IT IS CONVENIENT TO DO SO. Yet, doesn't that contradict thinking he could get the price down lower on something "so clearly mispriced"?
Seems to me to be 2 opposite thoughts there.....an "expert" would know. And, an "expert" would know more about SB.
I am NOT an expert, by any means, and even I would know.
We also don't know the age involved (unless I have missed) it, the real "experience" the person has, nor the validity, or not, of the stroke. My mother had a stroke about 12 years ago. She recovered better than expected but it still has its affects on her. I know what it is like for her, physically and mentally, and I know strokes can impact others in different ways. She is alone, but when I am there, she often has me take certain calls that may be "quicker paced" than she can handle well, or would want to.
I am not here saying the guy was 100% right, but neither am I here saying he was 100% wrong....and I think it is sad to see some of the folks that have jumped onto the dogpile based on what some other posters have written or from unsubstantiated postings on ebay.....(again, none of us know exactly how "expert of a collector" this guy is).
I am pretty certain that if the guy had posted the same "expert" clause but shown something mispriced, in his favor, the same attackers would have glommed onto that and attacked him stating he is no expert.
Come on guys, grow up and learn to get all the facts before attacking and making such judgemental calls.
where does it say that i'am a numismatist with a long history of buying selling coins? how do you know what I do, just for your information i'am NOT a numismatist I have been interested in coins since I was a teenager in the 1960's and I lost interest in coins when I started a family in the mid 1980's ON LY in the past 6 months or so have have I renewed my interest where does it say that i'am a numismatist get real and get your facts straight
<< <i>where does it say that i'am a numismatist with a long history of buying selling coins? how do you know what I do, just for your information i'am NOT a numismatist I have been interested in coins since I was a teenager in the 1960's and I lost interest in coins when I started a family in the mid 1980's ON LY in the past 6 months or so have have I renewed my interest where does it say that i'am a numismatist get real and get your facts straight >>
I have been involved with coins since the late 1960's often taking the CNW from Kenosha Wi to Chicago to shop at Rarcoa on North Clark St. However Barber coinage never apealed to me and I always looked at it from afar never paid much attention to it concentrating rather on Bust dimes and Bust halves, I had quite a collection a nearly complete set of mint state bust dimes including the 1811/09,1822 and 1828 lg date all in gem unc
<< <i>I was on the phoine with G.N. for 15-20 minutes and our conversation was general in nature and we discussed everything BUT the coin price for about 19 minutes and 45 seconds we discussed the price for 15 SECONDS lets get our facts straight shall we >>
Interesting that you can talk 'general in nature' for 19 minutes and 45 seconds but after 30 seconds of a conversation that you don't wish to have, it hurts you to talk. I'm just sayin...
And I'm not the one having trouble getting my facts straight in this debate. The inconsistencies are glaring.
Thank you Bochmann many of these people are totally jumping to conclusions about me without having the facts and i'am not going to try and defend myself against an onslaught like that my story in the eBay ad should have been written differently however everything that I said was true
<< <i>Thank you Bochmann many of these people are totally jumping to conclusions about me without having the facts and i'am not going to try and defend myself against an onslaught like that my story in the eBay ad should have been written differently however everything that I said was true >>
Ok, I've said my piece. At this point I have NO idea what is true and untrue because so much has been written here and on ebay that seems to be at odds with each other. At any rate, thank goodness Stacks got their coin back and everyone is happy.
If the buyer of this coin should have known the value of this coin, shouldn't the salesman of this coin at Stacks-Bowers known the value? To go by the price from a sheet of paper or what is listed in the computer and not know the value is not very professional. To me that is part of the job, learn coin values or be able to look them up. Don't go just by a marked price, that could very well be in error.
<< <i>I heard Stacks and Bowers is releasing a new book...called:
"Impractical Business Cents"
Regardless of the moral implication of just this one fellow, the business obviously needs a lot of cleaning up and some new oversight and/or managers involved.
Sheesh! >>
TDN is the only member here who I've seen violate these two rules without being banned on more than one occasion:
.....
Rule 4) Anyone making libelous remarks concerning any individual, any company, or any other entity will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
The title of the Ebay auction was listed as XRARE NGC MS65+ 1900-O BARBER HALVE DOLLAR GEM! NEAR FULL STRIKE! FINEST KNOWN!
Collecting gem bust dimes in the 1960's by itself would make a one numismatist. Almost no one collecting back then did so at that high a level. Way ahead of the times.
<< <i>APOLOGY I would like to offer my sincerest apolgies to DuPapa. I'am new to these forums and really do not fully understand how they work please accept my apologies radevine >>
Accepted, an understandable mistake and a thank you to RGT for having the inclination to take the time.
In my first post I said $1000 wasn't enough, SB should have offered a like amount to an industry standard buyers premium, between 15% and 25% of the sale price they quoted. As I'm held accountable and pay for my mistakes SB needs to pay for theirs… and mine cost more than a buyers premium. As a result, I learn from each and they are not repeated.
I don’t see any attempt by radevine to deceive or defraud. If that where his intent, he would not have disclosed more about himself in an eBay auctions revision feature before ending it than I have publicly disclosed about myself in 5 years on this board. SB had more than enough time to correct their mistake before the purchase was made.
For those of you picking out specific sentences and fabricating what they really mean, read the whole auction revision. I see it as honest, forthcoming, detailed and chronological and that is how I’ll view it until any part is proven not to be true.
He told his story and finished by asking: MY QUESTION IS Do they have a legal right to this coin that I bought, one that I have a signed and date stamped paid invoice for with my name address and amount paid on it I have the original online ad which has since disappered and all packing/shipping materials NOW If the situation were reversed and I sold them a coin for 1650.00 and then three days later and 10 hours before delivery I realised that the coin was worth 15,000.00 and said wait a minute wait a minute you got to pay me 15,000.00 do you think they would? I dont have to answer that as we all know what they would say "Thats too bad" PLEASE PLEASE take a moment to respond and send me your thoughts as all responces will be kept in complete confidence.
And what answers did he get? Did anyone from here contact him through eBay messages and give advice? Here a bunch of return the coin and a lot of attacks on his ethics, morals and character based only on suppositions his hidden agenda and his exposing his true fraudulent nature based on how and what he said about himself.
<< <i>Credit card refunds do not post intantaneously at least not from my experience. You can relax about the refund, there is no way any reputable company would go on record to agree to this and then not follow through, and they are most certainly reputable.
John >>
Right. With a credit card refund the funds are instantly removed from the merchant's account but the buyer usually won't see it for a few days.
I am sure S/B will follow through on their promise of $1,000 along with the refund. However, merchants are prohibited from refunding more than the actual purchase price. The merchant account system simply won't allow it.
So don't look for an extra $1,000 on your credit card account. It will have to be a check. You might want to ask about this just to be sure expectations are set. Lance.
To say that his only source only had the grades up to ms63 is beyond belief, again I could see a newbee stop there, but an ole time collector not know where to view ms65 prices....
An ole time collector raised only on Red Books might indeed be buying coins today armed only with that single source. But that odds of that seem fairly remote. But if true, then the only price available in RB is the MS63 number around $3500. And in that case that's all that would have been needed to rush to the phone and confirm on the coin before someone else did. I wouldn't have even waited to research what an MS65 was worth because in those 2 minutes someone else could buy the coin. The MS63 price alone indicated there was a rip tide out there.
Anyone buying 19th c. gem type coins in the 1960's/70's had to figure out on their own what was fair to pay. Because in those days Red Book only listed a single price in mint state...."UNC." And that was for a typical quality fully unc coin....not a gem. What do you pay for something that's way nicer than a typical MS63 unc coin? There are ways to figure it out if there is no price listed. Advanced collectors of gem coins figure out multiple ways to get there.
It's not damage control. You wouldn't even know about it if not for radevine... if for him not coming forward with the issue there'd be no damage to control.
Damage contol would be never saying anything, looking at caller ID and not answering, not replying to emails and not returning calls and not asking for advice and opinion.
<< <i>There is a lesson in here somewhere about money and happiness >>
And another lesson about explanations that are full of bologna.
And yet another about attorneys who advise asking $1K for 'pain and suffering". Maybe I should ask for such an award after reading through this thread. My neck is starting to hurt....
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
Realone what in hell makes YOU think that YOU know what was said when I contacted legal council. You dont know a god damn thing about my what was said in that conversation and you never will Your story is just that a fabricated lie and your low IQ attempt at making me look bad and spewing it forth on this forum
<< <i>Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho. Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Bochiman - here is my problem with the situation:
1) he's a numismatist with a long history of collecting high end coins in a different series. While he professes to not have looked up the exact value of an MS65 half of that date, he does admit to looking up the MS63 value. The MS63 value was more than TWICE the asking price and he's got enough experience to know that an MS65 is much more valuable than an MS63 [multiples] - even more so if it's unlisted as that means it's extremely rare.
2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering?
So while everyone can hand out laurels for him finally doing the right thing, it just doesn't smell right to me. And I'm calling a spade a spade. >>
Have to agree with 1). Collectors of gem bust coinage know that 63 to 65 is typically a triple to quadruple in price (nice icon coin!) And for a better date, the ratio is often larger. That same type of ratio is the norm with 19th century silver coinage. 4 x $3500 would have been a simple estimate for the value of a MS65. This one is a 65+ to boot. At some point I would have asked salesman GN what's up here, the price doesn't seem to make sense? At that point 2 minutes of on-line searching would have nailed down the price of a MS65. Let's face it, dealers typically don't sell MS63 Barber halves for <50% price guide....that should have raised some red flags on its own. But here was a MS65+ at 47% of MS63 money. And then trying to negotiate the price of the coin lower than $1650? My next question would be what about the pain and suffering to salesman GN? This all could have been easily avoided by asking GN additional questions. I suspect 99.9% of experienced numismatists would have done so. I'd be curious as to how this particular coin was written up in the S/B on line inventory. But it is great that it will be resolved. >>
Comments
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
This Beasties Boy lyric keeps popping in my head. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
<< <i>I'am RADEVINE and this ongoig thread concerns a problem i'am having with a 1900-O Barber Half Dollar MS65+ I purchased from StacksBowers on Monday May 1 and subsequent posting on eBay a few facts if I might although many of you if not most of you have convicted me of moral and ethical issues and called me every name in the book go ahead I can take it the only one I will respond to is DuPapa and you my freind are a pathetic excuse for a human being shame on you if I didn't know better I say you were in bed with StacksBowers am I right >>
Since you are new to these boards you may not have noticed that most of the post that DuPapa made that you seem to have taken offense to is in italics, indicating that it is a quote from a previous post. DuPapa was quoting lines from many other previous posts and asked if perhaps anyone might like to change their opinion. DuPapa seems to me to be one of the few that were on your side all along.
We have enough misunderstandings in this thread so I wanted to try and clear this one up. Maybe you should apologize and send him $1000 for his pain and suffering.
<< <i>Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho.
Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Bochiman - here is my problem with the situation:
1) he's a numismatist with a long history of collecting high end coins in a different series. While he professes to not have looked up the exact value of an MS65 half of that date, he does admit to looking up the MS63 value. The MS63 value was more than TWICE the asking price and he's got enough experience to know that an MS65 is much more valuable than an MS63 [multiples] - even more so if it's unlisted as that means it's extremely rare.
2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering?
So while everyone can hand out laurels for him finally doing the right thing, it just doesn't smell right to me. And I'm calling a spade a spade.
<< <i>...2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering? >>
The disappointment of not getting a $15K coin for $1500.
To me, the really odd part of this whole scenario is the eBay rant. Why would anyone reveal their character flaws in such a public fashion? Amazing.
2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering?
So while everyone can hand out laurels for him finally doing the right thing, it just doesn't smell right to me. And I'm calling a spade a spade. >>>
My thoughts exactly......among other remarks that also don't add up to me.
<< <i>My 2cs:
The following is what strikes me as odd:
hold on my wife wantes to speak to you, good cop bad cop, >>
Geez, RO, the guy had a stroke in 2010 and has difficulty speaking. << I had a hard time talking I said that I had suffered a stroke in Oct 2010 and let him talk to my wife who was 2 feet from me ??
<< <i>
<< <i>My 2cs:
The following is what strikes me as odd:
hold on my wife wantes to speak to you, good cop bad cop, >>
Geez, RO, the guy had a stroke in 2010 and has difficulty speaking. << I had a hard time talking I said that I had suffered a stroke in Oct 2010 and let him talk to my wife who was 2 feet from me ?? >>
Uhmmm - he was on the phone for 15-20 minutes when buying it trying to screw down the price even more.
It's like telling GoldBully that Scarlett Johansson is ringing his doorbell and he's not allowed to open the front door!
"Impractical Business Cents"
Regardless of the moral implication of just this one fellow, the business obviously needs a lot of cleaning up and some new oversight and/or managers involved.
Sheesh!
<< <i>
<< <i>My wife told me not to trust them
The coin was shipped yesterday USPS Express mail EI 522170504 US It was signed and delivered today at 12:09 PM PDT
I'am still waiting for them to refund my money as of 11:00PM CDT tonight
What exactly is the hurry? It's going to your credit card - as long as the credit shows up before your next statement date, you're fine and dandy.
Oh - I forgot - you want an extra $1,000 for your "pain and suffering". >>
Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho.
Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Cheap shots and TDN seem to go hand in hand , i wouldnt have thought so until i seen this thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My wife told me not to trust them
The coin was shipped yesterday USPS Express mail EI 522170504 US It was signed and delivered today at 12:09 PM PDT
I'am still waiting for them to refund my money as of 11:00PM CDT tonight
What exactly is the hurry? It's going to your credit card - as long as the credit shows up before your next statement date, you're fine and dandy.
Oh - I forgot - you want an extra $1,000 for your "pain and suffering". >>
Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho.
Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Cheap shots and TDN seem to go hand in hand , i wouldnt have thought so until i seen this thread. >>
TDN is the only member here who I've seen violate these two rules without being banned on more than one occasion:
Rule 3) Anyone attacking another poster or making disparaging personal remarks will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
Rule 4) Anyone making libelous remarks concerning any individual, any company, or any other entity will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho.
Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Bochiman - here is my problem with the situation:
1) he's a numismatist with a long history of collecting high end coins in a different series. While he professes to not have looked up the exact value of an MS65 half of that date, he does admit to looking up the MS63 value. The MS63 value was more than TWICE the asking price and he's got enough experience to know that an MS65 is much more valuable than an MS63 [multiples] - even more so if it's unlisted as that means it's extremely rare.
2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering?
So while everyone can hand out laurels for him finally doing the right thing, it just doesn't smell right to me. And I'm calling a spade a spade. >>
Have to agree with 1). Collectors of gem bust coinage know that 63 to 65 is typically a triple to quadruple in price (nice icon coin!) And for a better date, the ratio is often larger. That same type of ratio is the norm with 19th century silver coinage. 4 x $3500 would have been a simple estimate for the value of a MS65. This one is a 65+ to boot. At some point I would have asked salesman GN what's up here, the price doesn't seem to make sense? At that point 2 minutes of on-line searching would have nailed down the price of a MS65. Let's face it, dealers typically don't sell MS63 Barber halves for <50% price guide....that should have raised some red flags on its own. But here was a MS65+ at 47% of MS63 money. And then trying to negotiate the price of the coin lower than $1650? My next question would be what about the pain and suffering to salesman GN? This all could have been easily avoided by asking GN additional questions. I suspect 99.9% of experienced numismatists would have done so. I'd be curious as to how this particular coin was written up in the S/B on line inventory. But it is great that it will be resolved.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My wife told me not to trust them
The coin was shipped yesterday USPS Express mail EI 522170504 US It was signed and delivered today at 12:09 PM PDT
I'am still waiting for them to refund my money as of 11:00PM CDT tonight
What exactly is the hurry? It's going to your credit card - as long as the credit shows up before your next statement date, you're fine and dandy.
Oh - I forgot - you want an extra $1,000 for your "pain and suffering". >>
Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho.
Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Cheap shots and TDN seem to go hand in hand , i wouldnt have thought so until i seen this thread. >>
Where is that eyeroll emoticon when you need it? Yours was more of a cheap shot than anything I've posted here.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My wife told me not to trust them
The coin was shipped yesterday USPS Express mail EI 522170504 US It was signed and delivered today at 12:09 PM PDT
I'am still waiting for them to refund my money as of 11:00PM CDT tonight
What exactly is the hurry? It's going to your credit card - as long as the credit shows up before your next statement date, you're fine and dandy.
Oh - I forgot - you want an extra $1,000 for your "pain and suffering". >>
Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho.
Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Cheap shots and TDN seem to go hand in hand , i wouldnt have thought so until i seen this thread. >>
Where is that eyeroll emoticon when you need it? Yours was more of a cheap shot than anything I've posted here. >>
Perhaps you'd do well to reread some of your comments , personally i don't think it's anything more than a waste of my time pandering to your posts with replys so i'll leave you to throw rocks at a guy who did absolutely nothig wrong and has the guts to stand up to these slurs , good luck to you Beautifulmind and good day to you TDN.
So, we are now taking the seller's word from his ebay posting that he is some expert collector? No one here has met him, nor interacted with him, yet everyone is glomming onto that BECAUSE IT IS CONVENIENT TO DO SO.
Yet, doesn't that contradict thinking he could get the price down lower on something "so clearly mispriced"?
Seems to me to be 2 opposite thoughts there.....an "expert" would know. And, an "expert" would know more about SB.
I am NOT an expert, by any means, and even I would know.
We also don't know the age involved (unless I have missed) it, the real "experience" the person has, nor the validity, or not, of the stroke. My mother had a stroke about 12 years ago. She recovered better than expected but it still has its affects on her. I know what it is like for her, physically and mentally, and I know strokes can impact others in different ways. She is alone, but when I am there, she often has me take certain calls that may be "quicker paced" than she can handle well, or would want to.
I am not here saying the guy was 100% right, but neither am I here saying he was 100% wrong....and I think it is sad to see some of the folks that have jumped onto the dogpile based on what some other posters have written or from unsubstantiated postings on ebay.....(again, none of us know exactly how "expert of a collector" this guy is).
I am pretty certain that if the guy had posted the same "expert" clause but shown something mispriced, in his favor, the same attackers would have glommed onto that and attacked him stating he is no expert.
Come on guys, grow up and learn to get all the facts before attacking and making such judgemental calls.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
peacockcoins
<< <i>where does it say that i'am a numismatist with a long history of buying selling coins? how do you know what I do, just for your information i'am NOT a numismatist I have been interested in coins since I was a teenager in the 1960's and I lost interest in coins when I started a family in the mid 1980's ON LY in the past 6 months or so have have I renewed my interest where does it say that i'am a numismatist get real and get your facts straight >>
I have been involved with coins since the late 1960's often taking the CNW from Kenosha Wi to Chicago to shop at Rarcoa on North Clark St. However Barber coinage never apealed to me and I always looked at it from afar never paid much attention to it concentrating rather on Bust dimes and Bust halves, I had quite a collection a nearly complete set of mint state bust dimes including the 1811/09,1822 and 1828 lg date all in gem unc
<< <i>I was on the phoine with G.N. for 15-20 minutes and our conversation was general in nature and we discussed everything BUT the coin price for about 19 minutes and 45 seconds we discussed the price for 15 SECONDS lets get our facts straight shall we >>
Interesting that you can talk 'general in nature' for 19 minutes and 45 seconds but after 30 seconds of a conversation that you don't wish to have, it hurts you to talk. I'm just sayin...
And I'm not the one having trouble getting my facts straight in this debate. The inconsistencies are glaring.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Thank you Bochmann many of these people are totally jumping to conclusions about me without having the facts and i'am not going to try and defend myself against an onslaught like that my story in the eBay ad should have been written differently however everything that I said was true >>
Ok, I've said my piece. At this point I have NO idea what is true and untrue because so much has been written here and on ebay that seems to be at odds with each other. At any rate, thank goodness Stacks got their coin back and everyone is happy.
<< <i>I heard Stacks and Bowers is releasing a new book...called:
"Impractical Business Cents"
Regardless of the moral implication of just this one fellow, the business obviously needs a lot of cleaning up and some new oversight and/or managers involved.
Sheesh! >>
TDN is the only member here who I've seen violate these two rules without being banned on more than one occasion:
.....
Rule 4) Anyone making libelous remarks concerning any individual, any company, or any other entity will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
Pot, Kettle ... black.
Collecting gem bust dimes in the 1960's by itself would make a one numismatist. Almost no one collecting back then did so at that high a level.
Way ahead of the times.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
<< <i>APOLOGY I would like to offer my sincerest apolgies to DuPapa. I'am new to these forums and really do not fully understand how they work please accept my apologies radevine >>
Accepted, an understandable mistake and a thank you to RGT for having the inclination to take the time.
In my first post I said $1000 wasn't enough, SB should have offered a like amount to an industry standard buyers premium, between 15% and 25% of the sale price they quoted. As I'm held accountable and pay for my mistakes SB needs to pay for theirs… and mine cost more than a buyers premium. As a result, I learn from each and they are not repeated.
I don’t see any attempt by radevine to deceive or defraud. If that where his intent, he would not have disclosed more about himself in an eBay auctions revision feature before ending it than I have publicly disclosed about myself in 5 years on this board. SB had more than enough time to correct their mistake before the purchase was made.
For those of you picking out specific sentences and fabricating what they really mean, read the whole auction revision. I see it as honest, forthcoming, detailed and chronological and that is how I’ll view it until any part is proven not to be true.
He told his story and finished by asking:
MY QUESTION IS
Do they have a legal right to this coin that I bought, one that I have a signed and date stamped paid invoice for with my name address and amount paid on it I have the original online ad which has since disappered and all packing/shipping materials
NOW If the situation were reversed and I sold them a coin for 1650.00 and then three days later and 10 hours before delivery I realised that the coin was worth 15,000.00 and said wait a minute wait a minute you got to pay me 15,000.00 do you think they would? I dont have to answer that as we all know what they would say "Thats too bad"
PLEASE PLEASE take a moment to respond and send me your thoughts as all responces will be kept in complete confidence.
And what answers did he get? Did anyone from here contact him through eBay messages and give advice?
Here a bunch of return the coin and a lot of attacks on his ethics, morals and character based only on suppositions his hidden agenda and his exposing his true fraudulent nature based on how and what he said about himself.
<< <i>Credit card refunds do not post intantaneously at least not from my experience. You can relax about the refund, there is no way any reputable company would go on record to agree to this and then not follow through, and they are most certainly reputable.
John >>
Right. With a credit card refund the funds are instantly removed from the merchant's account but the buyer usually won't see it for a few days.
I am sure S/B will follow through on their promise of $1,000 along with the refund. However, merchants are prohibited from refunding more than the actual purchase price. The merchant account system simply won't allow it.
So don't look for an extra $1,000 on your credit card account. It will have to be a check. You might want to ask about this just to be sure expectations are set.
Lance.
but an ole time collector not know where to view ms65 prices....
An ole time collector raised only on Red Books might indeed be buying coins today armed only with that single source. But that odds of that seem fairly remote.
But if true, then the only price available in RB is the MS63 number around $3500. And in that case that's all that would have been needed to rush to the phone
and confirm on the coin before someone else did. I wouldn't have even waited to research what an MS65 was worth because in those 2 minutes someone else
could buy the coin. The MS63 price alone indicated there was a rip tide out there.
Anyone buying 19th c. gem type coins in the 1960's/70's had to figure out on their own what was fair to pay. Because in those days Red Book only listed a single price
in mint state...."UNC." And that was for a typical quality fully unc coin....not a gem. What do you pay for something that's way nicer than a typical MS63 unc coin?
There are ways to figure it out if there is no price listed. Advanced collectors of gem coins figure out multiple ways to get there.
It's not damage control. You wouldn't even know about it if not for radevine... if for him not coming forward with the issue there'd be no damage to control.
Damage contol would be never saying anything, looking at caller ID and not answering, not replying to emails and not returning calls and not asking for advice and opinion.
<< <i>There is a lesson in here somewhere about money and happiness
And another lesson about explanations that are full of bologna.
And yet another about attorneys who advise asking $1K for 'pain and suffering". Maybe I should ask for such an award after reading through this thread. My neck is starting to hurt....
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Your story is just that a fabricated lie and your low IQ attempt at making me look bad and spewing it forth on this forum
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Bruce....without knowing his situation, that is really uncalled for, imho.
Yes, you have your hackles up on this, but still, you are taking cheap shots and you weren't part of the situation.
Why not let him sort it out with SB? Why take shots at him? >>
Bochiman - here is my problem with the situation:
1) he's a numismatist with a long history of collecting high end coins in a different series. While he professes to not have looked up the exact value of an MS65 half of that date, he does admit to looking up the MS63 value. The MS63 value was more than TWICE the asking price and he's got enough experience to know that an MS65 is much more valuable than an MS63 [multiples] - even more so if it's unlisted as that means it's extremely rare.
2) he went so far as to check with lawyers about keeping the coin. It was only based upon their advice that it wouldn't be worth it in the end that he decided to return the coin - and asked for $1k extra for pain and suffering. WHAT pain and suffering?
So while everyone can hand out laurels for him finally doing the right thing, it just doesn't smell right to me. And I'm calling a spade a spade. >>
Have to agree with 1). Collectors of gem bust coinage know that 63 to 65 is typically a triple to quadruple in price (nice icon coin!) And for a better date, the ratio is often larger. That same type of ratio is the norm with 19th century silver coinage. 4 x $3500 would have been a simple estimate for the value of a MS65. This one is a 65+ to boot. At some point I would have asked salesman GN what's up here, the price doesn't seem to make sense? At that point 2 minutes of on-line searching would have nailed down the price of a MS65. Let's face it, dealers typically don't sell MS63 Barber halves for <50% price guide....that should have raised some red flags on its own. But here was a MS65+ at 47% of MS63 money. And then trying to negotiate the price of the coin lower than $1650? My next question would be what about the pain and suffering to salesman GN? This all could have been easily avoided by asking GN additional questions. I suspect 99.9% of experienced numismatists would have done so. I'd be curious as to how this particular coin was written up in the S/B on line inventory. But it is great that it will be resolved. >>