Interesting eBay listing. re: Apparent Stacks/Bowers mistake
commoncents05
Posts: 10,088 ✭✭✭
Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
0
commoncents05
Posts: 10,088 ✭✭✭
Comments
after reading the listing
kinda surprised in their stance too with demands
seller makes clear point of...if it was a reverse situation...
<< <i>was it 9.99 buy it now??? >>
No, it was an auction, but it was ended by the seller.
-Paul
Interesting story. I would think though, even if he believes the firm wouldn't honor his scenario it shouldn't make a difference as to what it is he should do.
Return the coin (and, accept the 1K reward for doing so).
peacockcoins
ANR once set me the wrong auction lots by mistake. I returned them, not sure if I had to, but as I valued the relationship there was no good reason to mess with them.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
What was mentally wrong with Russell Crowe's character in the movie A Beautiful Mind
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Bank error in your favor $12000!
You think its okay to walk off with the money? You think you'd get away with it? You think it is worthy of a David vs. Goliath title? Oh please
Parasite vs. host seems a more appropriate parallel.
would not have devoted so many lines of copy to grab sympathy if he thought he was right
<< <i>What goes around, comes around. I will NEVER do business with that seller - he's a *(#^%#Q(*$^ . And I'm fairly certain he'll be sued shortly. A sale is not a sale unless there's a meeting of the minds. This was a clear clerical error on the price. >>
Stuff happens. Companies need to hold their employees liable for the mistakes and bad bookkeeping. It's not the customers job to say HEY, I'll give you 15k for that 1650 dollar coin. If they wanted 15k for it, they should have denied the sale and said it was a mistake and corrected it. Instead, the employee, or representative, acted on the company's behalf and sold him the coin at that price. He got a deal! And the employee or employees should be held liable for what occurred. Not the customer's fault!
Whose fault is it when an employee's till comes up short? This is like the same mistake. And the employee is liable, at least from my experience.
Just my two cents.
Oh, and my comments have nothing to do with ethics. If I were him, I'd taken the $1000.00 and moved on. But I cannot curse him for what he did. He got lucky. And the employees SHOULD be held liable for his lucky day for the "shortage on the till"
<< <i>
<< <i>What goes around, comes around. I will NEVER do business with that seller - he's a *(#^%#Q(*$^ . And I'm fairly certain he'll be sued shortly. A sale is not a sale unless there's a meeting of the minds. This was a clear clerical error on the price. >>
Stuff happens. Companies need to hold their employees liable for the mistakes and bad bookkeeping. It's not the customers job to say HEY, I'll give you 15k for that 1650 dollar coin. If they wanted 15k for it, they should have denied the sale and said it was a mistake and corrected it. Instead, the employee, or representative, acted on the company's behalf and sold him the coin at that price. He got a deal! And the employee or employees should be held liable for what occurred. Not the customer's fault!
Whose fault is it when an employee's till comes up short? This is like the same mistake. And the employee is liable, at least from my experience.
Just my two cents. >>
If an employee is working the till and gives a customer an extra 100 dollars in change and the customer knowingly walks away it you have to things:
1 an incompetent cashier, who is going to get fired
2 a crook
Notice there is still a crook in that scenario?
<< <i>What goes around, comes around. I will NEVER do business with that seller - he's a *(#^%#Q(*$^ . And I'm fairly certain he'll be sued shortly. A sale is not a sale unless there's a meeting of the minds. This was a clear clerical error on the price. >>
Totally agree. The Ebay seller is crook of opportunity.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What goes around, comes around. I will NEVER do business with that seller - he's a *(#^%#Q(*$^ . And I'm fairly certain he'll be sued shortly. A sale is not a sale unless there's a meeting of the minds. This was a clear clerical error on the price. >>
Stuff happens. Companies need to hold their employees liable for the mistakes and bad bookkeeping. It's not the customers job to say HEY, I'll give you 15k for that 1650 dollar coin. If they wanted 15k for it, they should have denied the sale and said it was a mistake and corrected it. Instead, the employee, or representative, acted on the company's behalf and sold him the coin at that price. He got a deal! And the employee or employees should be held liable for what occurred. Not the customer's fault!
Whose fault is it when an employee's till comes up short? This is like the same mistake. And the employee is liable, at least from my experience.
Just my two cents. >>
If an employee is working the till and gives a customer an extra 100 dollars in change and the customer knowingly walks away it you have to things:
1 an incompetent cashier, who is going to get fired
2 a crook
Notice there is still a crook in that scenario? >>
This scenario happened the other day, hence why I brought it up. My love got screwed over for forty dollars by a little old lady in the drive-thru. Instead of following procedure, she just handed the lady her "remainder of the change" that she apparently forgot to hand the lady per the lady's words. Without putting up an argument, and pulling the till out and having the lady come inside and doing managerial procedure of counting the till, she let the lady go. The lady may be the crook, as this guy may be the crook, but the lady intentionally ripped off the company whereas this guy purchased something for an as-advertised price. Not so much a crook as much as he felt like he got lucky.
Again, I would have taken the $1000.00 and taken my refund. Hard to really call it theft as he bought and paid for a coin when it was advertised at a price and not to mention, it was allegedly stated that the price was firm over the phone. Somebody made a contract, and it wasn't him. He only signed on the dotted line. Some people like to get lucky...(and brag about it, too!)
See the cherrypick threads and the YOU SUCK awards of this forum. Plenty of people getting lucky and not paying more than the asking price despite the actual value of a coin... happens all the time here!
<< <i>
This scenario happened the other day, hence why I brought it up. My love got screwed over for forty dollars by a little old lady in the drive-thru. Instead of following procedure, she just handed the lady her "remainder of the change" that she apparently forgot to hand the lady per the lady's words. Without putting up an argument, and pulling the till out and having the lady come inside and doing managerial procedure of counting the till, she let the lady go. The lady may be the crook, as this guy may be the crook, but the lady intentionally ripped off the company whereas this guy purchased something for an as-advertised price. Not so much a crook as much as he felt like he got lucky.
Again, I would have taken the $1000.00 and taken my refund. Hard to really call it theft as he bought and paid for a coin when it was advertised at a price and not to mention, it was allegedly stated that the price was firm over the phone. Somebody made a contract, and it wasn't him. He only signed on the dotted line. Some people like to get lucky...
See the cherrypick threads and the YOU SUCK awards of this forum. Plenty of people getting lucky and not paying more than the asking price despite the actual value of a coin... happens all the time here! >>
He wasn't a complete crook until he decided to keep the coin after the sellers declared it a clerical error [which he knew all along it to be]. That's when he finished becoming a crook. There is no Santa Claus in numismatics - sellers don't sell certified classic coins for 10 cents on the dollar. It was clearly a clerical error and he should have pointed it out to them in the beginning.
<< <i>"See the cherrypick threads and the YOU SUCK awards of this forum. Plenty of people getting lucky and not paying more than the asking price despite the actual value of a coin... happens all the time here!"
The difference is there was a meeting of the minds in those instances. Once the company immediately declared it a [rather obvious, I might add] clerical mistake, there was no deal.
I think not. My guess is a big firm has some sort of fine print about errors. They will always happen, and giving out $1000 for an error is more than enough.
This seller/buyer should be ashamed of himself. The question he should have asked: if his wife sold the coin in question for $1650 would he like to undo the deal. I think we all know the answer, but my guess is he wouldn't be real willing to cough up $1000.
Just my 2c
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>
<< <i>"See the cherrypick threads and the YOU SUCK awards of this forum. Plenty of people getting lucky and not paying more than the asking price despite the actual value of a coin... happens all the time here!"
The difference is there was a meeting of the minds in those instances. Once the company immediately declared it a [rather obvious, I might add] clerical mistake, there was no deal. >>
It'll be interesting to hear some of the legal eagle guys views , legally where does the guy stand regards the coin ?
Yes , they must honor it as advertised.
<< <i>
The difference is there was a meeting of the minds in those instances. Once the company immediately declared it a [rather obvious, I might add] clerical mistake, there was no deal. >>
It'll be interesting to hear some of the legal eagle guys views , legally where does the guy stand regards the coin ? >>
Exactly where I stated - this has been hashed out on the Forum before.
<< <i>"So if a grocery store mis prints an ad and advertises Turkeys (I picked that on purpose) for $.15/lb when they should have been $1.50/lb is everyone entitled to cheap Turkeys?"
Yes , they must honor it as advertised. >>
No, they don't. I've seen plenty of little signs by misadvertised items saying 'we apologize for our error, but the real price is xxx'
seems like a decimal error and he perhaps should have gone for the $1000. I also find it interesting about the front story before the real story. Interesting bit to add, and seems to provide some ammunition against himself when he says he considers himself the luckiest guy in the world. If he feels so lucky... why not give it back? Or maybe he wants us all to say "he got lucky?" I think if, after that lead in, he still feels so lucky then perhaps he can take the $1000 since life is short.
<< <i>
<< <i>"So if a grocery store mis prints an ad and advertises Turkeys (I picked that on purpose) for $.15/lb when they should have been $1.50/lb is everyone entitled to cheap Turkeys?"
Yes , they must honor it as advertised. >>
No, they don't. I've seen plenty of little signs by misadvertised items saying 'we apologize for our error, but the real price is xxx' >>
Oh..then ill just take your word for it will i ? hah , if an item is priced wrong it goes out the door with what it says on the sticker
just one example
Seller comes back a week later, says it was a "clerical error," even shows you his computer printout & original purchase receipt to prove the point, and wants to undo the deal. What do you do?
Now let's make it more interesting. Same deal, except this time, you've advertised the coin as having some special quality (toning, special variety, whatever). Seller comes back with all the same paperwork and claims "clerical error." You suspect seller has seen the ad and now realizes the unlocked the value. But you can't prove it. In fact, the seller's paperwork remains the stronger evidence that in fact a clerical error did occur. What do you do?
And don't give me that bizness about how retailers have some special dispensation for clerical errors that occassional sellers don't.
I usually lean pro-dealer, but I am not so sure in this case.
After the completion of the transaction the law is completely in the purchasers favor.
<< <i>
<< <i>"So if a grocery store mis prints an ad and advertises Turkeys (I picked that on purpose) for $.15/lb when they should have been $1.50/lb is everyone entitled to cheap Turkeys?"
Yes , they must honor it as advertised. >>
No, they don't. I've seen plenty of little signs by misadvertised items saying 'we apologize for our error, but the real price is xxx' >>
Actually the do have to honer the price if the customer demands it otherwise they can sue for false advertisement, does not matter if they put up a sign customer can say the original advertisement is they only reason they came to the store in question and feel cheated. I work for a franchise that had to distribute 100,000 $5 gift cards to any one that called a phone number and requested it as well as the original patron that sued got a settlement, on the same type of advertising typo. Is it right to take advantage of a obvious mistake, I say no and I see you agree. The problem in todays society is to many people want something for nothing and will always take advantage when possible and a lawyer will see to it that they get away because the fine print wasn't there or the sign said this or that.
type2,CCHunter.
Conversely, a corporation as large as S/B which handles high value coins as a matter of course does not exactly impress the numismatic community when it gives the appearance that it does not have a system of checks and balances for processing such items, and then reacts in an aggressive manner when this type of event happens.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
technically, the coin is worth 50 cents. the fact that he paid $1,650 for it instead of $15K is stacks and bowers problem. they took his money and shipped the coin. end of deal. assuming the story is true as written...either that or i am misunderstanding something.
it seems like people today think they can make mistakes and then ask for a do over. it doesn't work that way. that's my take on it...and i am obviously in the minority after reading the responses here. so be it.
beautiful coin, btw! absolutely stunning.
<< <i>All you dealers out there - come on, 'fess up - suppose you buy a coin right, maybe $3000 for a $5000 coin that will take a couple months to sell.
Seller comes back a week later, says it was a "clerical error," even shows you his computer printout & original purchase receipt to prove the point, and wants to undo the deal. What do you do?
Now let's make it more interesting. Same deal, except this time, you've advertised the coin as having some special quality (toning, special variety, whatever). Seller comes back with all the same paperwork and claims "clerical error." You suspect seller has seen the ad and now realizes the unlocked the value. But you can't prove it. In fact, the seller's paperwork remains the stronger evidence that in fact a clerical error did occur. What do you do?
And don't give me that bizness about how retailers have some special dispensation for clerical errors that occassional sellers don't.
I usually lean pro-dealer, but I am not so sure in this case. >>
3k versus 5k is a far cry from 1.5k versus 15k.
<< <i>All you dealers out there - come on, 'fess up - suppose you buy a coin right, maybe $3000 for a $5000 coin that will take a couple months to sell.
Seller comes back a week later, says it was a "clerical error," even shows you his computer printout & original purchase receipt to prove the point, and wants to undo the deal. What do you do?
Now let's make it more interesting. Same deal, except this time, you've advertised the coin as having some special quality (toning, special variety, whatever). Seller comes back with all the same paperwork and claims "clerical error." You suspect seller has seen the ad and now realizes the unlocked the value. But you can't prove it. In fact, the seller's paperwork remains the stronger evidence that in fact a clerical error did occur. What do you do?
And don't give me that bizness about how retailers have some special dispensation for clerical errors that occassional sellers don't.
I usually lean pro-dealer, but I am not so sure in this case. >>
There is a substantial difference between $3000 -> $5000 and $1500 -> $15,000 both legally and morally.
But to play along...
In instance 1) I'd let it go, not so gentle letting the seller know I wouldn't care to repeat this in the future.
In instance 2) I'd keep it as I would have already invested my own money into the promotion of the item.
I've had it happen for a $700->$950 dealer-to-dealer purchase. I acknowledge the bargain price, and though I had already flipped the coin, I offered and made the dealer whole over time through a couple of other deals. At the same time I admonished the dealer's mistake and let him know it isn't something I wanted to have repeated.
<< <i>technically, the coin is worth 50 cents. >>
No- the coin is worth what a willing buyer and seller agree upon.
buy it before i realize i shoulda been selling at $5. a bag
here's a coin so at least one gets posted
<< <i>
<< <i>technically, the coin is worth 50 cents. >>
No- the coin is worth what a willing buyer and seller agree upon. >>
They agreed on $1650.00 , the invoice paid , item shipped.
<< <i>The guy should return the coin and take the $1,000 for his trouble. That being said SB should do a better job with control over their pricing. I'm sure someone will chime in with "mistakes happen" but there was failure at several points if it was priced wrong and still shipped after the guy called them on the price. There's no excuse for it getting out the door. Since it did, their system needs work. If what the guy wrote is true I'm not so sure he was aware of the pricing error. He's an old timer and dying-ever think he bought it because he liked it and didn't bother checking book? That is completely plausible on a sub $2K purchase by a dying man. >>
He said hes been collecting for a long time, who doesn't check prices especially when buying from a coin series not familier with as he said he wasn't into barber. I mean come on, he said he put together a set of bust dimes that pretty advance collecting to not check prices and don't get me wrong he could of thought score what a price for that, but once contact was made he knew it was a mistake.
type2,CCHunter.
Until someone confirms it its just a story in a listing. People write things to add drama to listings sometimes to try to get buzz watchers bidders whatever.
If it ran out the winner wouldn't see the coin. If you think about it he could auction it off get the cash then send the coin back get his own money plus the extra $1000 and poof buyer gets zip. I doubt paypal is going to cover that mess.
His completed listings seem to be plates and dishes except for this one coin even looking at his seller feedback I don't notice any coin sales just dishes. He does buy coins and whines a little about some of them .
<< <i>The difference is there was a meeting of the minds in those instances. Once the company immediately declared it a [rather obvious, I might add] clerical mistake, there was no deal. >>
Not picking sides, just trying to understand this statement.
There was a meeting of the minds...THE PHONE CALL TO ORDER THE COIN.
A little hard to declare a clerical mistake AFTER THE TRANSACTION TAKES PLACE (money changed hands) AND THEY SHIPPED THE COIN OUT...there WAS A DEAL and IT HAPPENED. The deal happened when they accepted the money and shipped the coin.
Just my thoughts on it. It's like calling a DO-OVER when something is DONE.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>technically, the coin is worth 50 cents. >>
No- the coin is worth what a willing buyer and seller agree upon. >>
They agreed on $1650.00 , the invoice paid , item shipped. >>
that's the point i was trying to make. everything over .50 is the fair market value...which is determined by the buyer and seller reaching an agreement...which they did.
<< <i>
<< <i>The guy should return the coin and take the $1,000 for his trouble. That being said SB should do a better job with control over their pricing. I'm sure someone will chime in with "mistakes happen" but there was failure at several points if it was priced wrong and still shipped after the guy called them on the price. There's no excuse for it getting out the door. Since it did, their system needs work. If what the guy wrote is true I'm not so sure he was aware of the pricing error. He's an old timer and dying-ever think he bought it because he liked it and didn't bother checking book? That is completely plausible on a sub $2K purchase by a dying man. >>
He said hes been collecting for a long time, who doesn't check prices especially when buying from a coin series not familier with as he said he wasn't into barber. I mean come on, he said he put together a set of bust dimes that pretty advance collecting to not check prices and don't get me wrong he could of thought score what a price for that, but once contact was made he knew it was a mistake. >>
I prefaced it before and will again here: "If his story is to be believed as written"-- dying people sometimes do things differently. It is entirely possible he bought the coin because it made him smile. Think about it, if you have 6 months to live are you 100% certain you're going to check the book value when spending $1500? I can honestly say I may not. I pour over values now when making purchases in order to determine if I'm getting a good deal or not and to determine how far and how long I may be buried in that coin. In his shoes I may not.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"So if a grocery store mis prints an ad and advertises Turkeys (I picked that on purpose) for $.15/lb when they should have been $1.50/lb is everyone entitled to cheap Turkeys?"
Yes , they must honor it as advertised. >>
No, they don't. I've seen plenty of little signs by misadvertised items saying 'we apologize for our error, but the real price is xxx' >>
Oh..then ill just take your word for it will i ? hah , if an item is priced wrong it goes out the door with what it says on the sticker
just one example >>
James,
I've worked retail. They actually do NOT have to owner glaring mistakes. However, most of the GOOD places WILL honor their mistakes and then put up signs after they run out or up to the point they catch the mistake stating they are sorry for the error.
In this case, there are a couple of things.....
If the price mistake was that glaring, why did he wait "several days"? Either he put that in there for effect or he felt there was something off on the deal.
Also, how long did SB leave it up there at an error in pricing? Did they mean to make it $16,500? Ie....simple decimal point error? Or, was it meant for a different price? If it were/is a $15,000 coin, is that their sale price or the price they paid? If that was the price they paid, that would make a $16,500 price only 10% markup. Could be true that they only do 10% markup....maybe...maybe not. I don't know.
Why didn't the price issue come up when stating "the price is firm"? At that point, don't most sellers know what they have into the coin or check on it at that point (I don't sell often, and am not a dealer, so I am just speculating here....based on what I do or would do....please correct me if you are a dealer at that assumption is incorrect).
Also, what is the value of the coin in the grade below? I don't know as I haven't checked. Is it even close to the "value" that he says SB said it was at the current grade? Is/was that just marketing mumbo jumbo to try to drive up the ebay price? None of the cancelled bids were even close to $1500 much less 5 digits.
I do also wonder how many buyers on these boards would return the coin (or any coin) if the situation were reversed for them......they buy a coin thinking they got a good/great deal and then, days later, right before the package is to arrive, as you are anxiously awaiting it and it isn't there as promised, you call and get told to return it. Does it matter how you are told? I don't think any of us know HOW the message was delivered, do we?
I don't know, but I think a lot of folks are getting themselves worked up over nothing as NONE of us know the exact thinking, the way the message was delivered, etc.
While I know what I would do, I also know that how someone acts towards me, and treats me, will go a long way as well.
I think one may be hard pressed, given just the statements given on the ebay auction, to say there wasn't a "meeting of the minds" as, if they are as given, the timing sequences leaves too many questions unanswered, at least to me.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
keoj
<< <i>On Saturday, an elderly couple who have been my customers for quite a while, were looking at some coins in my case when a dealer came over to speak with them. After the dealer left, the couple told me that they had just bought a beautiful 1916-D Mercury dime in PCGS AU58FB from this dealer for over $5,000, and that the dealer came over to tell them that he had made a mistake. Apparently, the dealer also had a 1916-D Mercury dime in PCGS XF45 and when he looked at his price list, he quoted the couple the price for the XF45 rather than the AU58 (for which he had paid over $10,000).
However, the dealer didn’t ask the couple for the coin back, nor any more money, he just wanted to make sure the couple knew that the 1916-D dime they bought was worth a lot more in case they intended to resell it.
So after the dealer left, the couple told me the story and asked what I thought they should do. I said if it were me, I wouldn’t feel comfortable keeping the coin under those circumstances, and that I would probably go back to the dealer and try to work something out that was more fair to both parties. The couple said they felt the same way. So when they were finished with our transaction, the couple went back over to the dealer and offered to “undo” the deal, either giving him more money or returning the coin. However, they were even more surprised when the dealer refused both and said it was his mistake and that he wanted the couple to keep the coin, and didn’t want any additional money either. Of course, the couple was quite surprised – and told me that, even though the dealer refused to take any additional money for the coin, they still intended to send him more money when they got home.
When the couple told me this, I too was very surprised because losing more than $5,000 on a deal due to a simple mistake would cause any dealer severe heart palpitations. So when I thought about including this story in my show report, I went over to the dealer to ask if he minded me using his name. I told him it was a very heartwarming story, and that it would really show the coin community that there are truly some honest and honorable dealers amongst us. However, the dealer said he really didn’t want any notoriety, and that yes, it was a “costly” mistake, but it was his mistake and he felt good about handling it this way. >>
I recently ran into that same couple and they told me when they got home, they sent the dealer another $2,500, and the dealer sent them a very kind note thanking them for their honesty and integrity. So in spite of the fact that we may think there are too many "crooks" out there, I'd like to believe there are even more kind and honest soles that we don't even hear about.
The Penny Lady®