My first eBay Neg, and it's a buyer that should be blocked - Updated/Removed NEG

Wolf359

The coin was shipped using Paypal, with a tracking number and it was delivered to the correct address. This was confirmed by email with the buyer.
The buyer admitted that, but wanted a refund because they claim they didn't receive it.

Here are the emails:


Dear jlee2027,

Hi, I recently purchased a Morgan Silver Dollar. As of today ,2/3/12 ,I have not received the coin. I know that you have included the tracking number , but I haven't received the coin.Im NOT trying to pull anything tricky , I am well aware of how eBay transactions work (140 feedback 100%). Feel free to contact me by eBay.Thanks

- sapoinc




Dear sapoinc,

Tracking number says delivered. Nothing else I can do about it

- jlee2027



Dear jlee2027,

Hi , are you sure you can't do anything else? I am aware that it has been marked as "delivered" , but I am truly honest when I say that I haven't received the coin. I also do not think it's fair that I pay for an item but I don't receive it. Again, I am NOT trying to pull anything tricky , I just want to know where my coin went. Thanks.

- sapoinc




Dear sapoinc,

The coin was sent to this Paypal confirmed address: Is this your address?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


jlee2027




Dear jlee2027
Hi ,
Yes ,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Is the shipping address, no information is incorrect , all shipping info is correct and true. All I ask for is a refund , I have paid for what I should receive , but I have NOT received what I have paid for. I understand that this is not your fault but USPS's fault. I also sell on eBay , and as a seller , my job is to send the package and to tend to my customers problems (if they have any). Again I am NOT trying to commit a "fraud" , I only want the coin I purchased. I hope we can resolve this problem. Thank you




Dear sapoinc,

I'm not giving you a refund.

- jlee2027




Dear jlee2027,

Why not?

- sapoinc



Dear sapoinc,

Don't contact me further. Thank you

- jlee2027




And now I have a neg. First negative in 11 years on eBay:
Never received coin , would not refund my order.When asked why , wouldn't answer


Feedback



Please block buyer sapoinc. Thank you.

WinPitcher

I see you gave him a positive, this is exactly why I don't like
giving positives first when I sell. The transaction is not over
simply because a buyer paid, it's over when they have item in hand and are happy
with it.

Not saying you did not send it.


Steve

LanceNewmanOCC

.
if item shows delivered to the buyers confirmed address, contact ebay. the feedback will probably qualify for removal

also you handled the transaction to near perfection.

in 11 years only 1 neg you should consider yourself extremely lucky

the simple odds you would encounter someone unreasonable against all rationality is actually quite high the longer you go without an encounter

it is nice to have happy customers but for a $36 item it really isn't worth all this commotion

the possibility for a delivery confirmation package to be stolen by a friend, roommate, spouse, stranger is actually quite high.

i am personally astonished i've not had a stolen package from my porch yet since a lot of the packages stick way out of the top of the mailbox

if it was a signature confirmation package, i recant part of my response, but usually items of this value after fees and shipping don't leave any room for the signature confirm, so i

understand if you opted out of that option and i'm sure the amount of delivery confirmation packages you've sent without a problem leads you to think all should be ok like the majority of

us do. i ship a LARGE portion of my online sales via delivery only
.
stay positive and remember this for your entire life, you are amongst the fortunate few
.

OPA

<< <i>I see you gave him a positive, this is exactly why I don't like
giving positives first when I sell. The transaction is not over
simply because a buyer paid, it's over when they have item in hand and are happy
with it.

Not saying you did not send it.


Steve >>



Since you cannot leave neg fb to a buyer. It's a moot issue who gives fb first. Personally, I give it when payment is received.

TomB

It might have been delivered to the wrong address. If I recall correctly, DC works by having the delivery employee scan the package at some point during the delivery process. It would be nice if all such scans were done at the moment the item was placed in the correct box, but from time to time items have been known to be delivered to the incorrect address yet they show up as delivered because they were scanned.

coinhunters

<< <i>It might have been delivered to the wrong address. If I recall correctly, DC works by having the delivery employee scan the package at some point during the delivery process. It would be nice if all such scans were done at the moment the item was placed in the correct box, but from time to time items have been known to be delivered to the incorrect address yet they show up as delivered because they were scanned. >>




Right you are. Now my mailbox is a " scan " point. I can't tell you how many times this very same scenario occurred with shipments to me from auction firms.

jdimmick

It is possible that the package was placed in somebody else's box, or was stolen out of his box. Ill block em anyhow, if he has a problem with mail delivery whether his fault or the post office, I dont want to send him any package.

jim

Wingsrule

Even if it was a USPS employee issue by scanning and placing in the wrong box, it should not reflect negatively on the OP, IMO.

In about 8 years, I have only had one item placed in my PO box that wasn't mine. I have given the yellow card to a clerk at the counter and they brought me the wrong package on 3 different occasions.

RYK

I cannot help but think that the tone of your replies contributed to the neg.

"Don't contact me further." ???

How about: "I will check with the post office and get back to you"

or

"I will check with ebay and get back to you"

Maybe there is no possible resolution, no happy ending, but the guy clearly communicated that he did not get the coin and wants to be made whole. I cannot blame him, and after "Don't contact me further.", I would have also left a neg.

SaorAlba

Rather than bickering with one another, both seller and buyer should channel their energies to the post office and find out where the package really was delivered - did a thieving carrier mark it delivered and then take it home etc.

The OP did everything right until he wrote the buyer to "Don't contact me further. Thank you", instead he should have engaged the buyer to join him in following through with the post office as to what happened.

yellowkid

I suspect the buyer never received the piece. For the amount involved I would have refunded him his money.

notwilight

"Nothing else I can do about it."

This is where you got your neg. YOu should have asked a question. "What did you receive?" "If nothing, can you ask your postman? It was a manilla padded envelope with a machine printed barcoded label on it." "Could it have been delivered to a neighbor?"

Your attitude reflects the level of customer service you feel you owe your customers.

--Jerry

PS your response to his neg has a statement in it that you can't substantiate. Do you feel a need to be honest and truthful? Or is it OK to stretch the truth to make a point?

notwilight

<< <i>The coin was shipped using Paypal, with a tracking number and it was delivered to the correct address. This was confirmed by email with the buyer.
The buyer admitted that, but wanted a refund because they claim they didn't receive it.

Here are the emails:


Dear jlee2027,

Hi, I recently purchased a Morgan Silver Dollar. As of today ,2/3/12 ,I have not received the coin. I know that you have included the tracking number , but I haven't received the coin.Im NOT trying to pull anything tricky , I am well aware of how eBay transactions work (140 feedback 100%). Feel free to contact me by eBay.Thanks

- sapoinc




Dear sapoinc,

Tracking number says delivered. Nothing else I can do about it

- jlee2027



Dear jlee2027,

Hi , are you sure you can't do anything else? I am aware that it has been marked as "delivered" , but I am truly honest when I say that I haven't received the coin. I also do not think it's fair that I pay for an item but I don't receive it. Again, I am NOT trying to pull anything tricky , I just want to know where my coin went. Thanks.

- sapoinc




Dear sapoinc,

The coin was sent to this Paypal confirmed address: Is this your address?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


jlee2027




Dear jlee2027
Hi ,
Yes ,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Is the shipping address, no information is incorrect , all shipping info is correct and true. All I ask for is a refund , I have paid for what I should receive , but I have NOT received what I have paid for. I understand that this is not your fault but USPS's fault. I also sell on eBay , and as a seller , my job is to send the package and to tend to my customers problems (if they have any). Again I am NOT trying to commit a "fraud" , I only want the coin I purchased. I hope we can resolve this problem. Thank you




Dear sapoinc,

I'm not giving you a refund.

- jlee2027




Dear jlee2027,

Why not?

- sapoinc



Dear sapoinc,

Don't contact me further. Thank you

- jlee2027




And now I have a neg. First negative in 11 years on eBay:
Never received coin , would not refund my order.When asked why , wouldn't answer


Feedback



Please block buyer sapoinc. Thank you. >>



I would have refunded. BTW, did you print a shipping label or hand write it. Printing a label, especially a barcoded one, will reduce shipping errors. --Jerry

EVillageProwler

I agree with those who feel the OP contributed to his getting his neg. Terrible attitude towards trying to resolve the matter. IMO, we should all avoid the OP and block him as a potential future buyer.

g048406

I don't understand. If the coin was sent with a tracking number and the recipient claims non receipt of the item, than why don't you just file a claim with the USPS:
USPS sign in and claim
You sign in and put the claim in and USPS makes it's decision.
You should have just told the recipient that you would put in a claim with the USPS and they will mail both of you their decision.
This does 3 things:
1. It leaves a 3rd party to rule
2. It prevents the buyer from leaving a neg as this process will take 2-3 months (past the feedback time limit)
3. It stops the unwanted emails from the recipient

mingot

I'd have probably left a neg as well.

AMRC

We have Board members that have done the same thing. Negged someone when a package showed delivered. No one is immune. Technically you have done everything correctly, and eBay WILL NOT remove the Neg. Good luck with that conversation. You should know that if ANYTHING does not go a buyers way on eBay they have the ultimate trump card, and as far as eBay goes you need to make them happy regardless if they are telling the truth, which it sounds like this guy is, or they are lying through their teeth.

Everyone wants someone to blame when they do not get their package. And the irony here is even had you insured the package, there would have been little recourse without SIGNIFICANT work.

Sorry to hear it.

GoldClause

The buyer seemed genuine about not receiving the coin. It happens, even with delivery confirmation. I may not have refunded either, but I would have at least been friendly in my replies and made an effort to contact ebay or the PO first to see if anything else could be done.

I don't think it was unreasonable for the buyer to neg you based on the email exchange.

TwoSides2aCoin

There is a fantastic lesson in the thread. Thank you for sharing.

EVillageProwler

@AMRC: since you seem sympathetic to OP's position and situation, can we assume that your approach to problem resolution is similar?

TheBigB

<< <i>The OP did everything right until he wrote the buyer to "Don't contact me further. Thank you" >>



Maybe the postal carrier would have remembered something, but I would probably have just refunded the money, even thought not required.

BUFFNIXX

I buy and sell a lot on ebay and I guess my next question is since I assume you insured it could you not file and insurance claim, or does the supposed delivery of the package in question negate this option? I think you are between a rock and a hard place and since the Post Awful (as the late Walter Breen used to call the Post Office) said it was delivered, what do you do? I would have done the same thing you did.

jesbroken

1. bad form for a buyer to just complain to the seller when their package does not arrive, yet has been tracked as delivered. they should exhaust all means on their end to ensure where it was delivered. I am sure the postman would remember a stuffed envelope that they scanned somewhere and where they laid it. Maybe not, but should at least be investigated. After that, yes the seller should be involved.
2. bad form for a seller to cut off, what sounds like at least, a legitimate concern by their customer. I would not want to deal with such a seller. Be a little more compassionate and concerned, for the buyer may truly be injured by a loss, and deserves the same level of concern you would want should you pay for something and it not be received as promised.

All in all, both parties need some direction, but the seller appears to be the worst of the two by not willing to do anything at all.
Jim

fivecents

Did you have signature confirmation?

If so who signed for the package?

dollarsandcents

I would have neg'd you too.

crypto79

<< <i>@AMRC: since you seem sympathetic to OP's position and situation, can we assume that your approach to problem resolution is similar? >>



I agree with EVP, At the very least walking him threw the postal review would have been good customer service. If I buy a coin and don't receive it a neg is only the beginning of the actions I will do.

Tiny

I would contact eBAy and see if they would remove it but if not then
it's a bare and grin it situation.

BORG

I agree with several here. Why not work together with the seller to figure out what happened to the shipment
rather than abruptly cutting off communication.

I understand it was a low dollar item and maybe you don't consider it worth the hassle, but you might learn something
new that would help you avoid problems in higher dollar transactions.

You could have solved the problem and posted that story here. That would have been a decent thing to do and let people know
you are a fair guy to deal with.

Coinsponge

<< <i>I cannot help but think that the tone of your replies contributed to the neg.

"Don't contact me further." ???

How about: "I will check with the post office and get back to you"

or

"I will check with ebay and get back to you"

Maybe there is no possible resolution, no happy ending, but the guy clearly communicated that he did not get the coin and wants to be made whole. I cannot blame him, and after "Don't contact me further.", I would have also left a neg. >>









If you want to do mail order you need a lot of patience on both sides. Maybe his wife got the package and it is in the car on the back seat floorboard.

dtkk49a

It is very possible the Post Office delivered the coin to the wrong address. Happened to me a few months ago. Delivery confirmation showed the coin was delivered to my house, but what they actually did was deliver it to the same numbered house on another street. Luckily, the other home owner contacted me a few days later and brought me my package, which was worth about $250. However, I never asked for a refund, since I knew the Post Office had made the mistake.

PerryHall

In this situation would getting signature confirmation help avoid this problem?

lkeigwin

Dear sapoinc,
I'm not giving you a refund.
- jlee2027

Dear jlee2027,
Why not?
- sapoinc

Dear sapoinc,
Don't contact me further. Thank you
- jlee2027

And now I have a neg. First negative in 11 years on eBay.

I'm not surprised by the neg, based on this exchange. Had you considered the possibility that the buyer was telling the truth? You come off as cold and uncaring.
Lance.

derryb

<< <i>In this situation would getting signature confirmation help avoid this problem? >>


Yes, but so would Brinks courier delivery. OP appears to have met paypal's requirement for items under $250 with del. conf. For items under $250 a concerned buyer is always free to contact and pay seller the additional upcharge for sig. conf. if he is concerned about the reliability of his mailman. I even saw one buy it now for under $250 where a seller offered this upcharge at cost.

To the OP: Poor customer service in your communications with the buyer. While you fulfilled your shipping obligation you failed at communicating your point.

phnatacc

Correct response would have been:

"I understand your frustration. In order for both of us to be covered and in order for the eBay system to work properly I need you to file a dispute with eBay so that the dispute resolution process properly runs its course through eBay."

You followed all the rules up to that point.

But, getting the case into eBay Dispute Resolution shifts the responsibility of solving the dispute over to eBay.

You almost certainly would have won the case and in certain circumstances eBay will eat the loss and cover the loss for either party.

Wingsrule

I guess it all depends on how much coddling and hand-holding one thinks is necessary. Sooner or late, the line has to be drawn.

fivecents

I assume Wolf359 didn't have signature confirmation.
Big mistake ALWAYS use signature confirmation. The cost really isn't that much and it provides a HUGE safety net.

streeter

<< <i>I suspect the buyer never received the piece. For the amount involved I would have refunded him his money. >>



THIS.

SAPO states he is from Apple Valley. Nice little high desert town. Went to the Walmart there a couple of years ago. Only Walmart I have ever seen where the Ammo is not under lock and key, just on the open shelf. Says something about the mindset of the locals.

NewParadigm

I have a similar story. Item was marked delivered, and the buyer claimed he never received it. I refunded his money (100%) and he left me my first neutral. Bummer.

OPA

<< <i>I assume Wolf359 didn't have signature confirmation.
Big mistake ALWAYS use signature confirmation. The cost really isn't that much and it provides a HUGE safety net. >>



You're joking? Sign. conf. for this low cost item would represent 10% of the purchase price.... I'm surprised you did not throw in the... "Registered Mail" scenario.

The below method would have been the appropriate steps that should have been taken. Both the seller & perhaps the buyer would have been "made whole."

Correct response would have been:

"I understand your frustration. In order for both of us to be covered and in order for the eBay system to work properly I need you to file a dispute with eBay so that the dispute resolution process properly runs its course through eBay."

LindeDad

<< <i>Correct response would have been:

"I understand your frustration. In order for both of us to be covered and in order for the eBay system to work properly I need you to file a dispute with eBay so that the dispute resolution process properly runs its course through eBay."

You followed all the rules up to that point.

But, getting the case into eBay Dispute Resolution shifts the responsibility of solving the dispute over to eBay.

You almost certainly would have won the case and in certain circumstances eBay will eat the loss and cover the loss for either party. >>



The new guy is the one with the proper response to this type of problem. aboard and enjoy the ride.

IHC08

<< <i>Correct response would have been:

"I understand your frustration. In order for both of us to be covered and in order for the eBay system to work properly I need you to file a dispute with eBay so that the dispute resolution process properly runs its course through eBay."

You followed all the rules up to that point.

But, getting the case into eBay Dispute Resolution shifts the responsibility of solving the dispute over to eBay.

You almost certainly would have won the case and in certain circumstances eBay will eat the loss and cover the loss for either party. >>



Great first post! OP definitely contributed to his neg.

Wolf359

There seem to be a few people on the thread who didn't read the buyers email. Here I'll help you:

I understand that this is not your fault but USPS's fault.

A buyer who still wants a refund wants her (yes her) cake and to eat it too. Since I knew the Neg was unavoidable and this was not a rational person, I stopped
communication.

19Lyds

<< <i>I agree with those who feel the OP contributed to his getting his neg. Terrible attitude towards trying to resolve the matter. IMO, we should all avoid the OP and block him as a potential future buyer. >>

Personally, I do not BLOCK buyers OR sellers over a disagreement.

However, I do not agree with the OP telling the buyer "Don't contact me further. Thank you". Instead, the better position would have been to ask the buyer to open a dispute with PayPal and then presented his case. Had Paypal found in the buyers favor, then eBay should be addressed to recover the losses.

Weird stuff happens with delivery confirmation and these two (buyer and seller) were trying to resolve it themselves. It did reach a point were no mutual resolution cvould be attained and therefore the selling venue as well as the paying vnnue shoud have been used to arrive at a resolution that would satisfy both parties.

I'm of the opinion that the OP received a deserved neg and now, will have to do what he should have done in the first place to avoid the neg. WORK.

To some, $36 just isn't worth the effort so they gladly refund the money then block the buyer or simply move on.

I had one buyer many years ago that emailed me complaining that she had not received her item. My delivery confirmation showed it as shipped however it was not shipped to her home address but a business address. Through email, I encouraged her to ask around and be patient. The item eventually showed up after about a week.

I'd love if every eBay transaction ran for 3 days from listing end until item deleivered. Unfortunate;y, real life is not that simple and things happen which require mutual resolution skills which some folks simply do not want to bother with or simply do not possess.

Wolf359

<< <i>I assume Wolf359 didn't have signature confirmation.
Big mistake ALWAYS use signature confirmation. The cost really isn't that much and it provides a HUGE safety net. >>



Signature confirmation is $2.10 a package. Not worth the cost.

Wolf359

It you guys want to trade 40 more emails with a female buyer who just wants their money without a reason, be my guest.

I have a life to live and it was time to move on. My 11 years on eBay w/o a neg speaks volumes.

dollarsandcents

<< <i>It you guys want to trade 40 more emails with a female buyer who just wants their money without a reason, be my guest.

I have a life to live and it was time to move on. My 11 years on eBay w/o a neg speaks volumes. >>



and



<< <i>A buyer who still wants a refund wants her (yes her) cake and to eat it too. Since I knew the Neg was unavoidable and this was not a rational person, I stopped
communication. >>



What point are you trying to make by pointing out your buyer's gender? What difference could it possibly make if your buyer is a woman, champ?

mikeyg

Similar story...about six months ago ordered from apmex and package was sent.When 10 days had passed and no package I called apmex.They told me package was delivered to my address and didnt want to hear that it wasnt.Called the post office and they said no such tracking number.Called fed ex who gave it to the usps,and they said apmex gave me the wrong tracking number and the usps has the package.called the post office with the correct tracking number and was told they delivered it to my home.The scan proves it I tried to call the postmaster who gave me the first number I already called.I vented on the forum and got some support but I vented about holding another package delivered to me by mistake and was flogged for that.(Idelivered the parcel to them already)Started an action with my cc to recover the money and while I waited for the paperwork,I got my package thru UPS.It was returned to apmex as not accepted(not true since I also waited everyday for the mail at that time)So apmex remailed it UPS.

A few weeks later I ordered a grizzly on ebay.I never got it and communicated with the seller who said he sent it.I waited another week or so and e mailed the seller when it still didnt come and let him know I didnt get it yet but I am sure he did sell it but my PO has issues and asked him to resend it if he gets it back which he agreed to.I also let him know that I wouldnt send feedback on it .Now when possible I ask sellers to use fed ex or UPS and am willing to pay for the peace of mind.

19Lyds

<< <i>There seem to be a few people on the thread who didn't read the buyers email. Here I'll help you:

I understand that this is not your fault but USPS's fault.

A buyer who still wants a refund wants her (yes her) cake and to eat it too. Since I knew the Neg was unavoidable and this was not a rational person, I stopped
communication. >>

Enjoy it then but I'll not block the buyer over your inability to use the tools provided to you through your selling venue. It certainly did not need to stop at the point YOU chose to stop it.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>I assume Wolf359 didn't have signature confirmation.
Big mistake ALWAYS use signature confirmation. The cost really isn't that much and it provides a HUGE safety net. >>



Signature confirmation is $2.10 a package. Not worth the cost. >>



If it prevents a neg due to non-delivery, it's well worth the cost.

streeter

Will somebody please remind me to never mix my ebay business and the U.S. coin forum if I ever forget?

Please

TwoSides2aCoin

Hey, you do your best and sometimes we lose our cool. It's okay. Carry on.