<< <i> The coin was delivered to the address the buyer requested. The seller is no longer responsible. >>
Post offices and postal carriers make mistakes, and a seller's responsibility does not end once a delivery confirmation is received. To the contrary, it is up to the seller to deliver the product once payment is received. Getting a delivery confirmation, while being fine as far as eBay is concerned, does not show the product was delievered, but only the carrier signified it as such.
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
<< <i>Personally, I would have told the seller he/she needs to contact the postal service and resolve it with them. None the less, the buyer does seem to be irrational. The coin was delivered to the address the buyer requested. The seller is no longer responsible. >>
I don't think we can make that assumption. I hate calling anyone a liar without proof and won't do it here either.
What is known, through the OP's information he has given, is that the coin package was MARKED as delivered to that address, but there is NO ONE here that can say without a doubt that it was actually physically delivered to the address as noted. Not necessarily the buyer's fault. Not necessarily the seller's fault. Could be the postal employee's fault.
If it was due to the postal employee, then I don't blame the seller, nor would I jump on any bandwagon to blame the buyer or call the buyer a crook/thief.
As has been noted...this has happened a few times, but is not consistently happening to every transaction. There is obviously a problem, but to speculate that it is absolutely the buyer's problem is possibly an error and premature.
Note: I don't know the seller other than on this forum, and have nothing for/against the seller. I don't know the buyer, nor have I transacted with them at any time in any venue. I just like to make sure facts are facts and not just venting or false ideas presented as absolutes.
<< <i>It you guys want to trade 40 more emails with a female buyer who just wants their money without a reason, be my guest.
I have a life to live and it was time to move on. My 11 years on eBay w/o a neg speaks volumes. >>
I would block the seller before the buyer on this one. Right or wrong i would have just refunded the 40 bucks and moved on with out another thought. I agree that 40 emails is about 39 to many. If you can not buck up and eat 40 bucks every decade or so i would not want to deal with you.
There are some people out there that just look to rip you off at any chance, you try to avoid them but sometimes it just happens.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
I would suspect the mailman or someone going through the mailbox more than I would suspect the buyer. These are items that don't require a signature. Buyer definitely has a problem getting safe delivery of coins. Everyone is assuming that the buyer actually received the coins in question.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Regardless of what the problem might be, to have avoided the neg Wolf could have worked with the buyer beyond the "Don't email me again." point. As it was, he left the buyer high and dry and now believes that it was the buyers fault he received his well deserved neg. >>
How do you work with people that are trying to steal from you? >>
Simple. Have them open the dispute with eBay. Encourage them to do so. At that point, they might get a refund but you'd be covered with the eBay buyer protection.
Working with the buyer also documents your actions via the eBay system.
You went into the emails "believing" (based upon 1 previous lost in the mail feedback) that the buyer was trying to steal from you. It is fully possible that there is an errant postal employee. It's totally possible that the package "could" actually show up in a month or so. ANY number of things could have occured and if they occurred once, they CAN and often do occurr again especialay with bad sorting equipment and at worst, an devious postal employees until they are caught.
Asking the buyer to contact his local Post Office to let them know that a package was marked as elivered yet never received could start an investigation.
But, nope. Your mind was made up since once YOU determined that nothing went wrong, you washed your hands of the situation and the buyer negged you.
In the past, I have had items disappear only to show up after a period of time. I discussed it with the buyer via email. She waited and sure enough, the package showed up a week later. Discussing the possibilities with the buyer or what they can do and fully expalining what you cannot do is a whole lot better than "Don't email me again".
How often do folks posts complaints here yet do not give all the details? Once those details are pulled out via questions and responses, the picture gets so much clearer and thats how you work with a buyer that has a problem.
Assume that they are right. Gather all the facts. Communicate the options. Work toward a resolution.
Whether its in your favor or the buyers favor at least it was worked.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Clearly a scam. No one has 3 coins lost in the mail like that. He just extorts an occassional free coin and the OP didnt feel like playing. I also notice though that the OP has collected another Neg. >>
Really? No one? So, a bad or dishonest postal employee couldn't have anything to do with it? It HAS to be a scam? >>
To the consistently negative.......Yes. It's ALWAYS a SCAM.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I would suspect the mailman or someone going through the mailbox more than I would suspect the buyer. These are items that don't require a signature. Buyer definitely has a problem getting safe delivery of coins. Everyone is assuming that the buyer actually received the coins in question. >>
If the buyer is honest - and I question this after a third non-delivery - then I would think that the buyer would be all over the postal carrier/USPS over this. I've NEVER had a non-delivery on anything, numismatic or otherwise. Three would REALLY have me questioning the USPS.
I just noticed this thread today. I was off-line when originally posted.
I've been selling on Ebay for six years. I have 100% Pos. FB and all 5/5 DSRs with consistently glowing feedback from my buyers (as is the case with many on this forum).
For what it's worth - which may well be nothing - this is how I handle my ebay sales:
I seldom sell items for less than $50-$100, and usually sell items in the hundred to thousands range as selling cheap items is not usually worth the time and invites more problem buyers, IMHO.
For any given item I make a decision:
For items over about $100 I send Sig. Conf., Insured. This eliminates problems such as that which the OP experienced.
I agree that it's not worth Sig. Conf. for such an inexpensive item as the one which the OP sold, as the OP notes.
That said, for cheaper items which I send with Del. Conf or nothing at all, if the buyer said that he/she didn't receive the item - even if I thought that they were total B.S. - I'd offer sympathy to the buyer for the non-delivered item, offer to help in any way possible, send a replacement if I had it and/or immediately refund with my apologies if requested. While this may be dollar foolish for the individual transaction, it is dollar wise for my ebay business as a whole, which is how I look at it. If it costs me $30 or $50 every now and then to keep my stellar Ebay FB than it's just another business expense and so be it.
While I understand - and agree - with the posts which note that the OP was a bit harsh in his emails, I very much understand his frustration in being asked for a refund of an item which shows delivered. The OP really does have fantastic feedback overall.
I also think that he was just trying to do us a favor by warning us about what he saw - and what may be - a problem buyer.
<< <i>I see you gave him a positive, this is exactly why I don't like giving positives first when I sell. The transaction is not over simply because a buyer paid, it's over when they have item in hand and are happy with it.
Not saying you did not send it.
Steve >>
Boy I got blasted on a thread when I said I didn't like to give feedback upon payment. People called me all kinds of nasty names In the old days of course we withheld positive until transaction done back when you could actually give a negative to a buyer. I have gravitated to giving positive feedback upon payment and even if a problem comes up you can't negative so.......well.......heck I don't know
Currently working with nurmaler. Older transactions....circa 2011 BST transactions Gecko109, Segoja, lpinion, Agblox, oldgumballmachineswanted,pragmaticgoat, CharlieC, onlyroosies, timrutnat, ShinyThingsInPM under login lightcycler
<< <i>Regardless of what the problem might be, to have avoided the neg Wolf could have worked with the buyer beyond the "Don't email me again." point. As it was, he left the buyer high and dry and now believes that it was the buyers fault he received his well deserved neg. >>
How do you work with people that are trying to steal from you? >>
Simple. Have them open the dispute with eBay. Encourage them to do so. At that point, they might get a refund but you'd be covered with the eBay buyer protection.
Working with the buyer also documents your actions via the eBay system.
You went into the emails "believing" (based upon 1 previous lost in the mail feedback) that the buyer was trying to steal from you. It is fully possible that there is an errant postal employee. It's totally possible that the package "could" actually show up in a month or so. ANY number of things could have occured and if they occurred once, they CAN and often do occurr again especialay with bad sorting equipment and at worst, an devious postal employees until they are caught.
Asking the buyer to contact his local Post Office to let them know that a package was marked as elivered yet never received could start an investigation.
But, nope. Your mind was made up since once YOU determined that nothing went wrong, you washed your hands of the situation and the buyer negged you.
In the past, I have had items disappear only to show up after a period of time. I discussed it with the buyer via email. She waited and sure enough, the package showed up a week later. Discussing the possibilities with the buyer or what they can do and fully expalining what you cannot do is a whole lot better than "Don't email me again".
How often do folks posts complaints here yet do not give all the details? Once those details are pulled out via questions and responses, the picture gets so much clearer and thats how you work with a buyer that has a problem.
Assume that they are right. Gather all the facts. Communicate the options. Work toward a resolution.
Whether its in your favor or the buyers favor at least it was worked. >>
I think events have shown I was correct and working with the buyer would have resolved nothing.
<< <i>I think events have shown I was correct and working with the buyer would have resolved nothing. >>
I think the events have shown you are jumping to a conclusion not supported by the facts, and you have no idea what might have happened had you chosen not to tell your buyer, essentially, to go pound sand. To the contrary, the other case where a coin was claimed lost in the mail was resolved without a negative, so there's evidence this could have been resolved amicably had you chosen to pursue it in that way.
Listen, Wolf, I like you and I think you're one of the good guys. I've bought coins from you in the past, and I intend on continuing to peruse your inventory and order freely. In this case, however, I think you're wrong to (a) jump to the conclusion you have and (b) have dealt with the buyer in the way you did.
Said a bit more plainly, if I were the buyer and everything I said to you was true, I would be pissed too.
Now you may end up being right about this whole thing -- but that doesn't change the fact that you jumped to a conclusion about the buyer's intent without sufficient evidence, and it doesn't change the fact that you were quite short with them.
Take care...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
The negative has been removed by eBay. All negative and neutral feedback from sapoinc, regarding "lost items" has been removed. She was a problem child.
Have not read the full thread so sorry if this is redundant.
First, if it's not Signature Confirmation you will loose.
When I sell, I decide whether to essentially self insure or not.
If I insure but don't use Sig. Confirmation and the buyer said that he did not get the item I would promptly issue a refund and file a claim with USPS.
If it's an expensive item I insure and use Sig. Conf. This puts the buyer on the hook if there is a no delivery claim.
While I HATE B.S. buyers, I am always very nice to them all - even if I know that they're FOS. In general, Ebay and otherwise, it's the seller who is held to a higher standard than the buyer.
Did this buyer have any history of being a seller? If not his 140 100% Pos. FB means absolutely nothing whatsoever. This is a HUGE fault of Ebay and it's ever more seller hostile policies.
Finally, I NEVER leave the buyer pos. feedback until it's left for me in case just such a situation happens.
Edited: I just read the last post. I'm very glad that this worked out for you and that a crook has been outed!!
Comments
<< <i> The coin was delivered to the address the buyer requested. The seller is no longer responsible. >>
Post offices and postal carriers make mistakes, and a seller's responsibility does not end once a delivery confirmation is received. To the contrary, it is up to the seller to deliver the product once payment is received. Getting a delivery confirmation, while being fine as far as eBay is concerned, does not show the product was delievered, but only the carrier signified it as such.
Wolf you should post this buyer on the Ebay coin forum and make sure that coin sellers know his/her ID.
Sorry for all your problems but you shot yourself in the foot on this one.
cheap stuff=cheap transactions with people looking for cheap stuff. Move up the ladder.
<< <i>Personally, I would have told the seller he/she needs to contact the postal service and resolve it with them. None the less, the buyer does seem to be irrational. The coin was delivered to the address the buyer requested. The seller is no longer responsible. >>
I don't think we can make that assumption. I hate calling anyone a liar without proof and won't do it here either.
What is known, through the OP's information he has given, is that the coin package was MARKED as delivered to that address, but there is NO ONE here that can say without a doubt that it was actually physically delivered to the address as noted. Not necessarily the buyer's fault. Not necessarily the seller's fault. Could be the postal employee's fault.
If it was due to the postal employee, then I don't blame the seller, nor would I jump on any bandwagon to blame the buyer or call the buyer a crook/thief.
As has been noted...this has happened a few times, but is not consistently happening to every transaction. There is obviously a problem, but to speculate that it is absolutely the buyer's problem is possibly an error and premature.
Note: I don't know the seller other than on this forum, and have nothing for/against the seller. I don't know the buyer, nor have I transacted with them at any time in any venue. I just like to make sure facts are facts and not just venting or false ideas presented as absolutes.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>I have. They won't remove the neg. >>
Looks like you now have 2 negs what happened on the second one on 3/6/12? >>
Clueless newbie. He passed on the coin and I refunded him. He negged me anyway.
Free Trial
<< <i>It you guys want to trade 40 more emails with a female buyer who just wants their money without a reason, be my guest.
I have a life to live and it was time to move on. My 11 years on eBay w/o a neg speaks volumes. >>
I would block the seller before the buyer on this one. Right or wrong i would have just refunded the 40 bucks and moved on with out another thought. I agree that 40 emails is about 39 to many. If you can not buck up and eat 40 bucks every decade or so i would not want to deal with you.
There are some people out there that just look to rip you off at any chance, you try to avoid them but sometimes it just happens.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>Regardless of what the problem might be, to have avoided the neg Wolf could have worked with the buyer beyond the "Don't email me again." point. As it was, he left the buyer high and dry and now believes that it was the buyers fault he received his well deserved neg. >>
How do you work with people that are trying to steal from you? >>
Simple. Have them open the dispute with eBay. Encourage them to do so. At that point, they might get a refund but you'd be covered with the eBay buyer protection.
Working with the buyer also documents your actions via the eBay system.
You went into the emails "believing" (based upon 1 previous lost in the mail feedback) that the buyer was trying to steal from you. It is fully possible that there is an errant postal employee. It's totally possible that the package "could" actually show up in a month or so. ANY number of things could have occured and if they occurred once, they CAN and often do occurr again especialay with bad sorting equipment and at worst, an devious postal employees until they are caught.
Asking the buyer to contact his local Post Office to let them know that a package was marked as elivered yet never received could start an investigation.
But, nope. Your mind was made up since once YOU determined that nothing went wrong, you washed your hands of the situation and the buyer negged you.
In the past, I have had items disappear only to show up after a period of time. I discussed it with the buyer via email. She waited and sure enough, the package showed up a week later. Discussing the possibilities with the buyer or what they can do and fully expalining what you cannot do is a whole lot better than "Don't email me again".
How often do folks posts complaints here yet do not give all the details? Once those details are pulled out via questions and responses, the picture gets so much clearer and thats how you work with a buyer that has a problem.
Assume that they are right.
Gather all the facts.
Communicate the options.
Work toward a resolution.
Whether its in your favor or the buyers favor at least it was worked.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Clearly a scam. No one has 3 coins lost in the mail like that. He just extorts an occassional free coin and the OP didnt feel like playing. I also notice though that the OP has collected another Neg. >>
Really? No one? So, a bad or dishonest postal employee couldn't have anything to do with it? It HAS to be a scam?
To the consistently negative.......Yes. It's ALWAYS a SCAM.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I would suspect the mailman or someone going through the mailbox more than I would suspect the buyer. These are items that don't require a signature. Buyer definitely has a problem getting safe delivery of coins. Everyone is assuming that the buyer actually received the coins in question. >>
If the buyer is honest - and I question this after a third non-delivery - then I would think that the buyer would be all over the postal carrier/USPS over this. I've NEVER had a non-delivery on anything, numismatic or otherwise. Three would REALLY have me questioning the USPS.
I've been selling on Ebay for six years. I have 100% Pos. FB and all 5/5 DSRs with consistently glowing feedback from my buyers (as is the case with many on this forum).
For what it's worth - which may well be nothing - this is how I handle my ebay sales:
I seldom sell items for less than $50-$100, and usually sell items in the hundred to thousands range as selling cheap items is not usually worth the time and invites more problem buyers, IMHO.
For any given item I make a decision:
For items over about $100 I send Sig. Conf., Insured. This eliminates problems such as that which the OP experienced.
I agree that it's not worth Sig. Conf. for such an inexpensive item as the one which the OP sold, as the OP notes.
That said, for cheaper items which I send with Del. Conf or nothing at all, if the buyer said that he/she didn't receive the item - even if I thought that they were total B.S. - I'd offer sympathy to the buyer for the non-delivered item, offer to help in any way possible, send a replacement if I had it and/or immediately refund with my apologies if requested. While this may be dollar foolish for the individual transaction, it is dollar wise for my ebay business as a whole, which is how I look at it. If it costs me $30 or $50 every now and then to keep my stellar Ebay FB than it's just another business expense and so be it.
While I understand - and agree - with the posts which note that the OP was a bit harsh in his emails, I very much understand his frustration in being asked for a refund of an item which shows delivered. The OP really does have fantastic feedback overall.
I also think that he was just trying to do us a favor by warning us about what he saw - and what may be - a problem buyer.
Just my .02
<< <i>I see you gave him a positive, this is exactly why I don't like
giving positives first when I sell. The transaction is not over
simply because a buyer paid, it's over when they have item in hand and are happy
with it.
Not saying you did not send it.
Steve >>
Boy I got blasted on a thread when I said I didn't like to give feedback upon payment. People called me all kinds of nasty names
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Regardless of what the problem might be, to have avoided the neg Wolf could have worked with the buyer beyond the "Don't email me again." point. As it was, he left the buyer high and dry and now believes that it was the buyers fault he received his well deserved neg. >>
How do you work with people that are trying to steal from you? >>
Simple. Have them open the dispute with eBay. Encourage them to do so. At that point, they might get a refund but you'd be covered with the eBay buyer protection.
Working with the buyer also documents your actions via the eBay system.
You went into the emails "believing" (based upon 1 previous lost in the mail feedback) that the buyer was trying to steal from you. It is fully possible that there is an errant postal employee. It's totally possible that the package "could" actually show up in a month or so. ANY number of things could have occured and if they occurred once, they CAN and often do occurr again especialay with bad sorting equipment and at worst, an devious postal employees until they are caught.
Asking the buyer to contact his local Post Office to let them know that a package was marked as elivered yet never received could start an investigation.
But, nope. Your mind was made up since once YOU determined that nothing went wrong, you washed your hands of the situation and the buyer negged you.
In the past, I have had items disappear only to show up after a period of time. I discussed it with the buyer via email. She waited and sure enough, the package showed up a week later. Discussing the possibilities with the buyer or what they can do and fully expalining what you cannot do is a whole lot better than "Don't email me again".
How often do folks posts complaints here yet do not give all the details? Once those details are pulled out via questions and responses, the picture gets so much clearer and thats how you work with a buyer that has a problem.
Assume that they are right.
Gather all the facts.
Communicate the options.
Work toward a resolution.
Whether its in your favor or the buyers favor at least it was worked. >>
I think events have shown I was correct and working with the buyer would have resolved nothing.
Free Trial
<< <i>I think events have shown I was correct and working with the buyer would have resolved nothing. >>
I think the events have shown you are jumping to a conclusion not supported by the facts, and you have no idea what might have happened had you chosen not to tell your buyer, essentially, to go pound sand. To the contrary, the other case where a coin was claimed lost in the mail was resolved without a negative, so there's evidence this could have been resolved amicably had you chosen to pursue it in that way.
Listen, Wolf, I like you and I think you're one of the good guys. I've bought coins from you in the past, and I intend on continuing to peruse your inventory and order freely. In this case, however, I think you're wrong to (a) jump to the conclusion you have and (b) have dealt with the buyer in the way you did.
Said a bit more plainly, if I were the buyer and everything I said to you was true, I would be pissed too.
Now you may end up being right about this whole thing -- but that doesn't change the fact that you jumped to a conclusion about the buyer's intent without sufficient evidence, and it doesn't change the fact that you were quite short with them.
Take care...Mike
Never give a woman a reason to be mad ...even if she's wrong.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Free Trial
First, if it's not Signature Confirmation you will loose.
When I sell, I decide whether to essentially self insure or not.
If I insure but don't use Sig. Confirmation and the buyer said that he did not get the item I would promptly issue a refund and file a claim with USPS.
If it's an expensive item I insure and use Sig. Conf. This puts the buyer on the hook if there is a no delivery claim.
While I HATE B.S. buyers, I am always very nice to them all - even if I know that they're FOS. In general, Ebay and otherwise, it's the seller who is held to a higher standard than the buyer.
Did this buyer have any history of being a seller? If not his 140 100% Pos. FB means absolutely nothing whatsoever. This is a HUGE fault of Ebay and it's ever more seller hostile policies.
Finally, I NEVER leave the buyer pos. feedback until it's left for me in case just such a situation happens.
Edited: I just read the last post. I'm very glad that this worked out for you and that a crook has been outed!!