Coins that circulated in early America - Does this chopmarked 8 reale qualify??

Lakesammman

Or do the chopmarks automatically exclude it?? Were there China towns in America in 1808??

DennisH

If it were able to make its way back to the U.S. (particularly the west coast), I see no reason why it wouldn't have circulated. It would have still been a big old piece of silver.

BillJones

Early American merchants sent ships all over the world and traded in goods that came from Asia. Some of these business men made great fortunes for themselves. Just because this piece as some chop marks does not mean that it did not spend some time in The United States.

RYK

I say YES

Bochiman

Hmmm...Mexican/Spanish coin, used in the US, with Chinese chopmarks....multicultural


Sue me

blue594

Spanish coin.

Just saying.

John

GoldClause

I'd say it's a possibility. Not because there were or weren't China towns (there weren't until the mid 19th century railroad building jobs brought them), because China towns in the US wouldn't have been chop marking coins anyway. More likely, it circulated in the Americas, maybe the US, made it's way to China in trade and got chopmarked, then made it's way back.

Lakesammman

Interesting reading here, from the world forum. Seems these are akin to "regulated" pieces??

See 3rd post.

rawmorgan

While I believe that Spanish "reale coins" did circulate in the colonial US. Your coin being from the Lima Peru Mint with what I believe is the JP assay mark may have made it mostly to China with possibly a stop over in the US and beyond. Although unless it came with a diary we will never know. Great Coin. I have a Mexico City 1796 as my pocket piece.

I preface this with saying that while this series is fascinating I know very little about it except how to identify mint and assay marks. So the question I guess becomes could a coin from Lima Peru minted in 1808 make it to general circulation in the US?

Pistareen

The US-China trade was alive and well after 1790, when the Lady Washington and Columbia went to Canton after a stop in the Pacific Northwest and became the first American vessels to circumnavigate the world. I don't know if China was a net importer of 8 reales or a net exporter, but I'm sure some of ours went there and some of theirs came here.

Was it a significant proportion of 8 reales in early America? Probably not. In fact, the folks who would have brought them back from China then probably put the bulk of them, still bagged and counted, right back into the international trade network. I've learned to never say never on what circulated here though: I have a Russian coin from 1810 that was dug in Rhode Island and a cash coin from the 1790s that was dug in Connecticut. So who knows.

I would not equate chopmarks with regulation, though. A chop was, at root, a way to tell if a silver coin had a core of a different metal. But it didn't confirm that a coin was of proper weight, or even that the coin was genuine -- I've seen several contemporary counterfeit 8 reales that bore chopmarks. Regulation was a confirmation that a known merchant brought the coin up to a given weight standard.

If I was collecting coins that circulated in early America, I probably wouldn't necessary buy a piece with chopmarks. But if I wanted to show the role of the New World in international trade of that era, I definitely would.

RYK

Thanks, JK

Sonorandesertrat

<< <i>The US-China trade was alive and well after 1790, when the Lady Washington and Columbia went to Canton after a stop in the Pacific Northwest and became the first American vessels to circumnavigate the world. I don't know if China was a net importer of 8 reales or a net exporter, but I'm sure some of ours went there and some of theirs came here.

Was it a significant proportion of 8 reales in early America? Probably not. In fact, the folks who would have brought them back from China then probably put the bulk of them, still bagged and counted, right back into the international trade network. I've learned to never say never on what circulated here though: I have a Russian coin from 1810 that was dug in Rhode Island and a cash coin from the 1790s that was dug in Connecticut. So who knows.

I would not equate chopmarks with regulation, though. A chop was, at root, a way to tell if a silver coin had a core of a different metal. But it didn't confirm that a coin was of proper weight, or even that the coin was genuine -- I've seen several contemporary counterfeit 8 reales that bore chopmarks. Regulation was a confirmation that a known merchant brought the coin up to a given weight standard.

If I was collecting coins that circulated in early America, I probably wouldn't necessary buy a piece with chopmarks. But if I wanted to show the role of the New World in international trade of that era, I definitely would. >>



There are lots of Spanish Colonial coins with chops. At that time, the Philipines was a Spanish colony, and Manila was an important point of embarcation for very lucrative trade with East Asia (New World silver exchanged for silks, porcelains, etc.). For centuries, Spanish fleets traveled back and forth across the Pacific, between Manila and Acapulco.

Pistareen

The rat speaks truth.

ricko

Neat coin though... chop marks are interesting and quite collectible. I just have one chopmarked trade dollar. Cheers, RickO

Sonorandesertrat

F. M. Rose wrote a nice booklet, entitled 'Chopmarks.' It's worth a quick read.

Nysoto

Here is an example with a huge die crack, it probably spent most of its tour of duty circulating through China. It would be interesting to know when, and why, it appeared in the US.

Lakesammman

Seems these are akin to "regulated" pieces??

Not even 3rd cousins, thrice removed??

John - how can I get any controversy going here when you jump right in?? Aren't you supposed to be at an auction today??

Sonorandesertrat

What controversy? You can call them Filipino or Mexican/Peruvian, but they're not likely American American.