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My herd of Buffalos - gold that is

Made a trip to the SDB so I could image my Buffalos.
I only see them once a year when I add the new member to the herd.
Same camera setup for each coin.
What a difference in color and luster between the years. Some are developing some nice toning:
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Comments

  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    very nice!
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • First things first... Nice coins kimber image!


    << <i>Some are developing some nice toning: >>


    Surely this subject has been discussed at length before, but can anyone point me to an old thread regarding pcgs slabs and how/why they tone gold? Specifically it seems that the slabs from 2006 through 2009 seem to be the the worst offenders. The number of *heavily* toned 2006w $5 burnished gold eagles in PCGS slabs at the FUN show was frightening (I saw at least six!). I've never seen toned burnished gold eagles in any other holder so clearly it's a chemistry issue with pcgs slabs. I've been saving pictures of examples as I come across them and plan on cracking out an example soon to see if acetone will clean it. Gold shouldn't develop wild toning in just a few years and one has to wonder whether or not future collectors are going to consider the coins as toned versus 'environmentally damaged'. Surely our beloved host has addressed this issue before so if someone could point me to that thread I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks...

  • Thanks for sharing these awesome photos! This is not a beautiful design, but a handsome and dignified design.

    Now hopefully the 2013 doesn't cost $3,000.image
  • This is the first Ive heard of these toning in the slabs. If anyone would like to chime in that would be appreciated!
  • Those are nice! What a great design.
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    You have a nice herd of bison there.
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"


  • << <i>This is the first Ive heard of these toning in the slabs. If anyone would like to chime in that would be appreciated! >>



    Turn your PMs on... (I don't want to derail this thread as I was planning on starting one on this subject at some point in the future.)



    << <i>Somehow, the designs for the gold buffalo, and silver and gold eagles have too much of a "been there, done that" feel to them. The Statue of Liberty design of platinum is well done however. >>



    I'm actually VERY thankful for the age, ase, and the buff as IMO the mint is giving us modern coins with their absolute best designs ever image. I would love to see a new reverse on the ase or age though (the trans-am eagle on the ase is awful IMO). I agree with you on the platinum eagles. The reverses on APEs are also some of the best of the best as well IMO. The 2004, 2006, and 2008 reverses are my favorite, but I enjoy most all of them. The mint has had a lot of freedom with APEs and they've done a great job. I just don't understand how come they do such a good job with APEs, but yet year after year give us multiple hideous commens.

    We need to start a petition for a high relief 100 year anniversary buffalo imageimage
  • JazzmanJABJazzmanJAB Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭✭
    Here is my Herd.

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  • Wow! Very impressive!image
  • ModernCoin,

    I updated my profile to accept PM's
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    nice herd! My friends herd of PCGS buffs started developing nasty looking toning spots, he had to sell at a big loss. The NGC ones didn't tone at all.
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • Toning I have yet to see..........copper spots I have seen on graded coins (red dots).........I have also witnessed black spots on 2 coins that had been slabbed
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Here is my Herd.

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    That is a nice herd with some yearlings thrown in.image
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AMAZING pics Kimber!!

    What equipment did you use to take them?

    Love the Buffs. I to have noticed the variability between years.
    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
  • RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>nice herd! My friends herd of PCGS buffs started developing nasty looking toning spots, he had to sell at a big loss. The NGC ones didn't tone at all. >>



    He should have sent them in for spot review.
    Land of the Free because of the Brave!


  • << <i>nice herd! My friends herd of PCGS buffs started developing nasty looking toning spots, he had to sell at a big loss. The NGC ones didn't tone at all. >>



    This corroborates what I've seen and heard from different people across different forums. Start looking at burnished gold eagles and you'll see a number of coins with toning. Even eBay sellers now state "no haze" and/or "no tone" when selling pcgs burnished eagles on eBay. Buffs, spouse gold, and particularly burnished gold eagles seem to "tone" very quickly in pcgs slabs image. Surely this has been discussed in a thread previously, no? If anyone reading this recalls a thread on the subject please reply or send me a pm as I'd like to learn more if possible. Thanks to anyone who has more information on the subject.
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭
    .9999 gold won't tarnish so it's not the gold that is toning. Maybe something it was washed with is interacting with the air.
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mdwoods is correct... .9999 gold will not tarnish... Gold will not tarnish at all.. it is the impurities that tarnish. Cheers, RickO
  • These red spots are driving me crazy. My Grant FSMS70 already had formed a small red spot. Figures it was the only one that graded 70.All my 69s are still ok so far. What will PCGS do about it in spot review?
  • kimber45ACPkimber45ACP Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭
    Here is a larger pic showing what I was referring to as toning. It does not appear to be spots.
    Agreed that it may be an impurity, but I kind of like the transitions of color from light to dark.

    image


  • << <i>These red spots are driving me crazy. My Grant FSMS70 already had formed a small red spot. Figures it was the only one that graded 70.All my 69s are still ok so far. What will PCGS do about it in spot review? >>



    Just so folks aren't confused by my previous statement I was referring toning specifically, and not the copper strawberries that develop on 22kt gold and sometimes even on 24k gold. The buffalo above has mild toning, but I've seen other pure gold coins with heavier toning. This first spouse coin is much darker than it should be:

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,141 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Read the article...

    Tarnish stains on .999 or .9999 Gold coins, is caused by the presence of Ag (Silver) and S. (Sulphur) on the coin or in the atmosphere.



    Link on subject
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    Does it have anything to do with the holders?? Are ngc slabs vacumn sealed?? I've noticed issues with the 2006 gold sets as well.
    My friend who has sold to moderncoin had pr70dcam sets in pcgs and ngc when he bought the coins, there were no spots,haze, toning,etc. However later they developed on the pcgs coins, the ngc ones never had an issue
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • RobertSRobertS Posts: 485 ✭✭


    << <i>Made a trip to the SDB so I could image my Buffalos.
    I only see them once a year when I add the new member to the herd.
    Same camera setup for each coin.
    What a difference in color and luster between the years. Some are developing some nice toning:
    >>



    U mind sharing the camera setup to take these great pictures?
  • >>>Does it have anything to do with the holders??

    It sure seems like it. As I stated previously I saw many examples of heavily toned gold eagles (and again, I am NOT talking about copper spots/cherries) from 2006 and 2007. One guy in particular had a two different 1/10th age's with wild toning that he was asking $750 for the pair on.

    >>> Are ngc slabs vacumn sealed??

    I don't know, but no slab is truly airtite over the years. I've seen pics where people have submerged slabs and the coin stayed dry and other pics where the slab filled with water.

    >>>I've noticed issues with the 2006 gold sets as well.

    Yuuup. Check out the heavy toning on the reverse of this 2006 gold eagle at the bottom of this post.

    >>>the ngc ones never had an issue

    I have yet to see a heavily toned AGE in any other tpg slab. Out of respect for our awesome host I want to make it clear that I'm not stating that the slabs caused the toning, but rather I'm simply making the observation that there are a LOT of heavily toned modern gold coins in PCGS slabs while they're nearly non-existent in competitors. Until I read something from PCGS on the matter, that's all I will say about it.

    image
  • kimber45ACPkimber45ACP Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Made a trip to the SDB so I could image my Buffalos.
    I only see them once a year when I add the new member to the herd.
    Same camera setup for each coin.
    What a difference in color and luster between the years. Some are developing some nice toning:
    >>



    U mind sharing the camera setup to take these great pictures? >>



    I am using a Canon Rebel XS with a Canon EFS 60mm macro lens.
    Mounted on a copy stand, using a remote shutter release and (3) 75W PAR30 halogen lamps.
    The biggest help I have received is from some pointers from Todd at BluCC, a really good guy, and Mark Goodman's book.
    Compared to these two, I have an extremely long way to go.

    image
  • RobertSRobertS Posts: 485 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Made a trip to the SDB so I could image my Buffalos.
    I only see them once a year when I add the new member to the herd.
    Same camera setup for each coin.
    What a difference in color and luster between the years. Some are developing some nice toning:
    >>



    U mind sharing the camera setup to take these great pictures? >>



    I am using a Canon Rebel XS with a Canon EFS 60mm macro lens.
    Mounted on a copy stand, using a remote shutter release and (3) 75W PAR30 halogen lamps.
    The biggest help I have received is from some pointers from Todd at BluCC, a really good guy, and Mark Goodman's book.
    Compared to these two, I have an extremely long way to go.

    image >>



    Nice setup thanks for sharing!

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