I got the envelope but the coins are missing!

BringMeDown · January 12, 2012 2:30AM

So I tried the BST for the first time. I bought a couple of half dollars. Paid with paypal and everything was set.

Yesterday I received a small white envelope. The envelope seem to be empty so I checked...
I found a hole at the bottom of the envelope (check the pictures).

I contacted the seller about this and he said:
"I have sent many coins in envelopes before and this has never happened. I have absolutely no idea what this could be.
You may want to call the post office and see if they know what it could be."

The envelope had no insurance and no tracking number. Just a plain white envelope.
What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything and that the coins were lost in transit or
that there were really no coins in there.

Can I still claim something from USPS?

Is this the sellers fault or usps?

Has this happened to anyone else?

*************************************************************************************************
UPDATE! - January 20, 2012

For those who are interested...

I sent a message to the seller last Jan. 12 and told him to contact the post office and give me a refund.
Here is what he said:

“i contacted the post office, they do not know what happened. i cannot issue a refund because i do know what happened.
once the package is in the mail, it is out of my control”

My response was that he is responsible for getting the item to his buyer and that he should have made sure that the item
was packed safe and secure. I also told him that I can't blame the post office since he was the one who did the poor packaging
and he should have known that a plain white envelope is not a secure packaging for coins. I also said that I have no fault in this
and I should not be the one paying for his mistake. I requested a refund (again).

It's been one week and I haven’t heard from him. I think he has no intention of contacting me again.

Will I get a refund? Maybe not. But I hope this serves as an eye opener to buyers and sellers. I also hope this doesn't happen to anyone else.

JamesMurray · January 12, 2012 2:33AM

"What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way.

Unknown · January 12, 2012 2:33AM

This content has been removed.

BBN · January 12, 2012 2:34AM

Post office fault, but you're out of luck. I wouldnt pack a coin of any real value in a plain white envelope. Under $20, yeah maybe but in a 2x2 wrapped inside paper, but anything more is going into a bubble mailer and anything over $100 is going insured in a priority mail "book size" box.

al410 · January 12, 2012 2:35AM

It is the sellers responsibility to get the coins to you, tell him to contact the post office but in the mean time to refund you your money!
AL

airplanenut · January 12, 2012 2:37AM

A seller is responsible for safe delivery. It is (or should be) well known that an unprotected envelope is asking for trouble when it gets snagged in a machine. You're due a full refund or replacement. The USPS may have done the ripping, but it's entirely on the seller.

LindeDad · January 12, 2012 2:38AM

Postal regs expressly forbid any rigid items in standard mail. Sellers fault all the way.

UtahCoin · January 12, 2012 2:39AM

<< A seller is responsible for safe delivery. It is (or should be) well known that an unprotected envelope is asking for trouble when it gets snagged in a machine. You're due a full refund or replacement. The USPS may have done the ripping, but it's entirely on the seller. >>

What he said.

BringMeDown · January 12, 2012 2:39AM

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

I am not here to "out" anyone. I never mentioned anyone on the message.

I am just asking for opinions from fellow forum members.

comma · January 12, 2012 2:41AM

If the seller really sent coins without insurance or delivery confirmation and just in an envelope like that...it's their fault.
I mean, I've sent low value, single coins in a white envelope but they were wrapped in bubble wrap and the entire envelope was coated in packing tape so it couldn't rip like that.

GoldClause · January 12, 2012 2:43AM

Completely unacceptable. The seller needs to refund your money.

JamesMurray · January 12, 2012 2:43AM

<< 

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

I am not here to "out" anyone. I never mentioned anyone on the message.

I am just asking for opinions from fellow forum members. >>

Not a problem , you could have blacked out senders name on the envelope...just a suggestion..carry on.

Meltdown · January 12, 2012 2:43AM

My opinion is that the seller was lazy, cheap and irresponsible to package and mail coins that way.
As far as I'm concerned, he needs to reinburse you for the lousy packing job.

Seriously, it costs a buck and a half to send a small padded envelope.

BringMeDown · January 12, 2012 2:47AM

<< 

<< 

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

I am not here to "out" anyone. I never mentioned anyone on the message.

I am just asking for opinions from fellow forum members. >>

Not a problem , you could have blacked out senders name on the envelope...just a suggestion..carry on. >>

I did. I BLURRED the senders name. Check the picture.
I will never post anything with a name and address.

FaberCastell · January 12, 2012 2:48AM

Don't most auction houses tell you that ownership legally transfers to the buyer once the item(s) have been shipped? Wouldn't this law (if it is a law) apply to individuals as well?

BTW, what arrangements were made upfront regarding insurance? And no way should he be shipping coins in plain white envelopes . Can't afford a padded envelope? Get out of business!

SamByrd · January 12, 2012 2:49AM

Sellers fault 100% he took a risk by such poor packaging. The minimum is a bubble mailer with filps inside and taped very well.
The envelopes go through high speed machines and are subject to a lot of abuse in the mail.
Reasonable care was not taken to pack and ship these coins.The sellers needs to make this right imo

ModernCoin · January 12, 2012 2:51AM

Well it stinks to hear about your loss, but I sure as heck you were just buying a couple silver dimes for bullion value as otherwise that is negligent packing IMO. I would *never* send someone anything in an envelope like that. What's wrong with a thin padded mailer? I save all the ones people mail me, as well as boxes and packing supplies, so I rarely have to buy them. Even with a thin padded mailer I'll put coins in a flip and then tape the flip to cardboard to give the envelope more support. Heck, I even fold a couple sheets of scrap paper and include them with bills that I pay simply to give the envelope a little more rigidity.

Assuming the coins were worth more than $10 it seems to me that in this case the seller was lazy, or simply trying to cut corners, by placing coins in a paper thin envelope without affixing them to a 3x5 card or something like that. A little added rigidity goes a long way folks...

ModCrewman · January 12, 2012 2:52AM

I had a similar experience on Ebay a few weeks back. Bought a coin I was very anxious to receive and when it arrived it was an empty envelope, except this was a bubble mailer with delivery confirmation, and the end was torn as if opened with a letter opener.

The seller immediately refunded my money (at my word) which was appreciated, and through some subsequent correspondence with him (to assist him in resolving the issue) he notified me that he was able to receive compensation from either the USPS or Paypal...he didn't answer my inquiry as to which entity reimbursed him.

In that case, my message to him was that it arrived empty, and I recognized he had done everything he was required to do by using delivery confirmation, and if he wanted to stiff me I'd have been stiffed, and I offered to do whatever I could to assist in resolving it. Honestly, when I sent the message I thought the best I could hope for was to "split the loss" with him and was very glad that he was able to be compensated for the lost coin as well.

In your case try to work it out with the seller, as best as possible. If all else fails, you should be protected by having used PayPal and can make a claim with them. Good luck.

edix2001 · January 12, 2012 2:52AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

I am not here to "out" anyone. I never mentioned anyone on the message.

I am just asking for opinions from fellow forum members. >>

Not a problem , you could have blacked out senders name on the envelope...just a suggestion..carry on. >>

I did. I BLURRED the senders name. Check the picture.
I will never post anything with a name and address. >>

But the zip code on the postmark is pretty clear.

DoubleEagle59 · January 12, 2012 2:56AM

<< If the seller really sent coins without insurance or delivery confirmation and just in an envelope like that...it's their fault.
I mean, I've sent low value, single coins in a white envelope but they were wrapped in bubble wrap and the entire envelope was coated in packing tape so it couldn't rip like that. >>

Ditto.

BringMeDown · January 12, 2012 2:57AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

I am not here to "out" anyone. I never mentioned anyone on the message.

I am just asking for opinions from fellow forum members. >>

Not a problem , you could have blacked out senders name on the envelope...just a suggestion..carry on. >>

I did. I BLURRED the senders name. Check the picture.
I will never post anything with a name and address. >>

But the zip code on the postmark is pretty clear. >>

Lets be serious. Can that really tell you who the sender is.

JamesMurray · January 12, 2012 2:59AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

I am not here to "out" anyone. I never mentioned anyone on the message.

I am just asking for opinions from fellow forum members. >>

Not a problem , you could have blacked out senders name on the envelope...just a suggestion..carry on. >>

I did. I BLURRED the senders name. Check the picture.
I will never post anything with a name and address. >>

But the zip code on the postmark is pretty clear. >>

Lets be serious. Can that really tell you who the sender is. >>

Some no doubt could , its clear which city it was sent from.Nobody is having a pop at you,just hoping to save you any further grief over this.

NewParadigm · January 12, 2012 3:01AM

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

He is not that close. He is within the rules.

LotsoLuck · January 12, 2012 3:03AM

Bummer for both parties. In the future consider purchasing from Broadstruck as it typically takes five minutes to open his envelopes

NewParadigm · January 12, 2012 3:04AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

I am not here to "out" anyone. I never mentioned anyone on the message.

I am just asking for opinions from fellow forum members. >>

Not a problem , you could have blacked out senders name on the envelope...just a suggestion..carry on. >>

I did. I BLURRED the senders name. Check the picture.
I will never post anything with a name and address. >>

But the zip code on the postmark is pretty clear. >>

Lets be serious. Can that really tell you who the sender is. >>

I think you will be fine in terms of this constituting "outing" someone. This was not the intention of the rule.

cucamongacoin · January 12, 2012 3:07AM

Sellers, ALWAYS use a bubble mailer, DON'T let your envelope/package go through the sorting machine.

JamesMurray · January 12, 2012 3:07AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

I am not here to "out" anyone. I never mentioned anyone on the message.

I am just asking for opinions from fellow forum members. >>

Not a problem , you could have blacked out senders name on the envelope...just a suggestion..carry on. >>

I did. I BLURRED the senders name. Check the picture.
I will never post anything with a name and address. >>

But the zip code on the postmark is pretty clear. >>

Lets be serious. Can that really tell you who the sender is. >>

I think you will be fine in terms of this constituting "outing" someone. This was not the intention of the rule. >>

Well , we can all be grateful that one person at least fully understands how the rule implemented works.Finding loopholes isnt a great idea.

Gemineye · January 12, 2012 3:09AM

<< My opinion is that the seller was lazy, cheap and irresponsible to package and mail coins that way.
As far as I'm concerned, he needs to reinburse you for the lousy packing job.

Seriously, it costs a buck and a half to send a small padded envelope. >>

..........................

Bochiman · January 12, 2012 3:12AM

As has been said by most, it sucks, but it is the seller's responsibility.

I have sent low value items in envelopes as well, but I did make sure that (a) I took full responsibility as the seller, in case anything happened (b) I made sure the coins were well packaged, not loose. I even went so far as to wrap them, tape the wrapping, and tape the whole thing to the inside of the envelope. Then, in some cases, I tape-reinforced the envelope edges and flap.

Though, I do usually try to use bubble/padded larger envelopes when I have them.

In this case, you did the right thing by using paypal and you never received the goods. So, seller should refund or paypal will.
You cannot claim anything from USPS as the seller would (a) have had to purchase insurance and (b) would have to be the one to do it.

Hopefully, seller steps up and sees it was their problem. Else I doubt I would want to deal with such a seller and I wouldn't mind a PM on this.

TomB · January 12, 2012 3:14AM

From what I am reading in the thread it is pretty clear the seller owes you a complete refund. The USPS was the source of the loss, but the seller didn't package the coins in a responsible manner. Might you be able to go through PayPal to force a refund if the seller refuses?

Bankerbob56 · January 12, 2012 3:17AM

<< "What can i do if the post office tells me that they can't do anything"

Uuumm..start a thread dangerously close to outing someone which apparantly doesnt fly anymore. The post office will indeed tell you to pound sand albeit in a nice way. >>

messydesk · January 12, 2012 3:40AM

<< I contacted the seller about this and he said:
"I have sent many coins in envelopes before and this has never happened. I have absolutely no idea what this could be.
You may want to call the post office and see if they know what it could be." >>

Well, his luck has run out and now he has had it happen. His refund to you should be considered "tuition." The PO did nothing wrong.

OPA · January 12, 2012 4:00AM

<< Postal regs expressly forbid any rigid items in standard mail. Sellers fault all the way.

>>

Exactly...seller should have used a bubble mailer.

JeffinMich · January 12, 2012 5:24AM

I once received a shipment of 5 ASE's in plastic flips that came packaged exactly like this....I have no idea how they ever made it to my mailbox intact.

WTCG · January 12, 2012 5:31AM

Do a little investigation to see if the coin was in the envelope in the first place and go from there. A while ago I did a BST purchase that had no coin inside the envelope and upon a little checking it was concluded that there was never a coin inside when the envelope was mailed.

GoldClause · January 12, 2012 6:14AM

LOL at all the people trying to be the forum police. That's why we have moderators.

NoPole · January 12, 2012 6:18AM

Sell was trying to be cheap on shipping now they will pay the price for being cheap via refund

Prethen · January 12, 2012 6:25AM

The seller needs to make it right. It seems that they didn't secure the coins/envelope well enough. I rarely send coins in a plain white envelope any more, especially more expensive stuff (I use USPS Priority Mail most of the time; insured). If the coins were worth more than $50, they should have been insured. No matter what, it should be the seller's problem. I had this happen one time to me (I was the sender...but I WAS INSURED!) and the post office paid up.

stealer · January 12, 2012 6:30AM

<< Post office fault, but you're out of luck. I wouldnt pack a coin of any real value in a plain white envelope. Under $20, yeah maybe but in a 2x2 wrapped inside paper, but anything more is going into a bubble mailer and anything over $100 is going insured in a priority mail "book size" box. >>

Yup, that's exactly how I gauge how I ship my stuff.

BigRick · January 12, 2012 6:40AM

Seller hired the P.O. & they are HIS agent. HE is responsible.

ibex66 · January 12, 2012 6:45AM

<< 

<< My opinion is that the seller was lazy, cheap and irresponsible to package and mail coins that way.
As far as I'm concerned, he needs to reinburse you for the lousy packing job.

Seriously, it costs a buck and a half to send a small padded envelope. >>

..........................

>>

Not to pile on, but it costs like .19 cents in bulk for 6x9 jiffy mailers - if you ship coins with any regularity you should have lots of these on hand.

mariner67 · January 12, 2012 9:04AM

seems overwhelming majority feel seller should stand up here and take responsibility and I concur!

kaz · January 12, 2012 9:18AM

The seller is at fault, and should reimburse the buyer.

erickso1 · January 12, 2012 9:22AM

<< . In the future consider purchasing from Broadstruck as it typically takes five minutes to open his envelopes

>>

I agree 100%. Opening Broadstrucks packages is like a never ending Russian stacking doll. It is just one mailer inside another mailer inside another mailer inside another mailer

Sorry you lost your coins. Should have been sent in a bubbler as all have said.

Wingsrule · January 12, 2012 9:26AM

The seller needs to make this right and replace the items or refund your money.

WoodenJefferson · January 12, 2012 9:41AM

Obviously a cheap, lazy seller...I'm surprised they even took the time to reply to your query about mailing a coin in a first class envelope. Lesson learned, move on.

seanq · January 12, 2012 9:48AM

<< Do a little investigation to see if the coin was in the envelope in the first place and go from there. A while ago I did a BST purchase that had no coin inside the envelope and upon a little checking it was concluded that there was never a coin inside when the envelope was mailed. >>

You should be able to tell from the amount of postage on the envelope, one packed with two halves will cost a lot more to mail than an empty one.

It looks to me like the coins were loose in the envelope, it's bad enough that they went through the sorting equipment in the first place but without placing them in a 2x2 they can get squeezed right out of the envelope. Even if the seller didn't want to use a bubble mailer, he could have paid a small upcharge for a "non-machinable" envelope.

Sean Reynolds

SUMORADA · January 12, 2012 9:49AM

t is the sellers responsibility to get the coins to you, tell him to contact the post office but in the mean time to refund you your money!

telephoto1 · January 17, 2012 1:21AM

Let me be clear up front that I've no doubt that this is USPS machine damage... but, for the sake of discussion...
What if the seller isn't willing to just fork over money based on a picture of a torn envelope and wants some proof?
For instance, looking at that image, I see no "received in damaged condition" stamping on the envelope, nor do I see one of those USPS "We're sorry" envelopes in which they often (though not always) forward mechanically damaged items...
I'm not accusing OP of anything, just making an observation here.
It's not necessarily as as cut and dried as some would think.

Bochiman · January 17, 2012 1:26AM

<< Let me be clear up front that I've no doubt that this is USPS machine damage... but, for the sake of discussion...
What if the seller isn't willing to just fork over money based on a picture of a torn envelope and wants some proof?
For instance, looking at that image, I see no "received in damaged condition" stamping on the envelope, nor do I see one of those USPS "We're sorry" envelopes in which they often (though not always) forward mechanically damaged items...
I'm not accusing OP of anything, just making an observation here.
It's not necessarily as as cut and dried as some would think. >>

The "we are sorry" or "received in damaged conditions", which I have received, are for envelopes received in MUCH worse condition than shown. The one shown would just be "minor damage", I believe, and since they wouldn't expect anything to have been inside and not packaged well, they would likely view it as just crumpled a bit but certainly readable.

I do find it pretty cut and dried.

notwilight · January 17, 2012 1:34AM

Insurance, delivery confirmation, method of shipping are irrelevant. I don't care if he sends them by carrier pigeon or camelback across the desert so long as they arrive in good condition.

Keep it simple;

Seller is responsible for safe delivery, end of story.

Note to seller: This is a totally inadequate method of shipping.

--Jerry

I got the envelope but the coins are missing!

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