Craigslist Scammer got away with $2200

I have a dealer friend that met some guy on Craigslist that was selling some Mantles along with some other cards. Long story short, They met up and the Mantles were fake. He called the guy back and they spoke and the seller got really defensive and started cussing saying things like "those were my dads cards" and "are you out of your mind" and so on. He wont return the dealers calls now.

It was a 1951 Bowman, 1953 Topps and a 1962 Topps. Other cards were Jackie Robinson and Al Kaline and those were nice and graded but the Mantles weren't. He goggled the guy and he found out that hes a graffix designer and his address matched his phone number so he knows where he lives. I advised to maybe have a policeman show up to the guys house with him to get his money back and to call Topps so they can also press charges for distributing fake Tops cards. I think Topps may want to prosecute.

They met at a local Ihop and the cards were all purchased for $2200 cash. My friend told me that all he would like is his money back - he would even be willing to let the guy keep $100 for his troubles. Maybe the seller really thinks there real but they are definitely not after checking with 2 other trusted and reputable sources.

How can this situation be handled best?

Marc

Always looking for Jose Canseco cards to add to my PC. Please PM me if you want to get rid of them.

Foo3112's Collection
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Comments

  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,827 ✭✭✭
    This one outta be good.


    Good for you.
  • PowderedH2OPowderedH2O Posts: 2,472 ✭✭
    Cash transaction? At an IHOP? Hope your friend enjoys his Mantles, cause he's an owner.
    Successful dealings with shootybabitt, LarryP, Doctor K, thedutymon, billsgridirongreats, fattymacs, shagrotn77, pclpads, JMDVM, gumbyfan, itzagoner, rexvos, al032184, gregm13, californiacards3, mccardguy1, BigDaddyBowman, bigreddog, bobbyw8469, burke23, detroitfan2, drewsef, jeff8877, markmac, Goldlabels, swartz1, blee1, EarlsWorld, gseaman25, kcballboy, jimrad, leadoff4, weinhold, Mphilking, milbroco, msassin, meteoriteguy, rbeaton and gameusedhoop.
  • eyeboneeyebone Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭
    lol....he is willing to let the scammer keep $100 for his (the scammer's) troubles. lol

    eyebone.

    "I'm not saying I'm the best manager in the world, but I'm in the top one." Brian Clough
  • EAsportsEAsports Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭
    image
    My LSU Autographs

    Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
  • I felt bad. Really nice guy. And the crazy part if is anyone would of seen this 61 (not 62 like I mentioned earlier) Mantle, that one looked really fake. It looked really bad. Anyone here would of red flagged it. Poor guy image

    Edited for Eyebone - Once I bought concert tickets from a guy on Craigslist also and the show ended up getting cancelled. I called the guy back and requested a refund but I let him keep like $20 in the end. Technically, he didn't even have to return my call and Id rather lose $20 than the whole $150 I paid at that time. So $100 out of $2200 is nothing.
    Always looking for Jose Canseco cards to add to my PC. Please PM me if you want to get rid of them.

    Foo3112's Collection
  • gonzergonzer Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭


    << <i>there real >>

    THEY'RE real.
  • Maybe he should give up on being a dealer.
  • Fist fight
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • purduepetepurduepete Posts: 751 ✭✭✭
    Caveat Emptor.
    Tom

    Collecting: Topps 1955-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-69, and Pre-War White Sox cards
  • EAsportsEAsports Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭


    << <i> THEY'RE real. >>



    image
    My LSU Autographs

    Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
  • Maybe he should give up on being a dealer.

    Thats what I was thinking.

    Like someone mentioned, I think hes now the owner of some bogus Mantles.
    Always looking for Jose Canseco cards to add to my PC. Please PM me if you want to get rid of them.

    Foo3112's Collection
  • TonyCTonyC Posts: 1,405 ✭✭


    << <i>Maybe he should give up on being a dealer.

    Thats what I was thinking.

    Like someone mentioned, I think hes now the owner of some bogus Mantles. >>



    Speaking as a dealer, you NEVER put out money, no matter how much, unless:

    A) You are 100% positive that the items are real, or

    B) If you cannot make a determination one way or another, there are enough other items in the deal so that if the item(s) in question turn out to be fake, it doesn't hurt
    Collecting Tony Conigliaro
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭
    I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days.
    Some people are like slinkies..Not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you push one down a flight of stairs.

    yup
  • Nothing to do, the other guy will just claim your "Dealer" friend switched the cards
    out later, and is the one pulling the swindle.

  • Maybe not.

    ...Great advice Tony. Option B sounds like the best bet.
    Always looking for Jose Canseco cards to add to my PC. Please PM me if you want to get rid of them.

    Foo3112's Collection
  • A fool and his money are soon parted......I take it your dealer friend doesn't sell baseball cards.
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 9,086 ✭✭
    i just keep hearing the Looney Tunes theme in my head.

    over and over again. it's agonizing.
    "I know this board has a tendency to sometimes go ballistic or act like two-day starved pirhana surrounding fresh meat flung into the water."
    ~DeutscherGeist~
  • fool and his money are soon parted

    Theres actually truth to that. He does sell them but I guess the whole "If its too good to be true, then it probably is" got the best of him. I wouldn't of wished that kind of loss on anyone. Such a shame.
    Always looking for Jose Canseco cards to add to my PC. Please PM me if you want to get rid of them.

    Foo3112's Collection
  • image
    MOO,
    Scott

    Looking to Upgrade my 1948 Leaf Football Master Set. Buying 1948 Leaf FB Autos, 1894 N302 Football, 19th Century Football Cabinets.
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭
    Maybe this New Jersey State Trooper can help
    image


  • << <i>Cash transaction? At an IHOP? Hope your friend enjoys his Mantles, cause he's an owner. >>



    I've actually met someone at Ihop before, ended up being a $500 vintage purchase. He was very very pleasant.


  • << <i>I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days. >>



    Small claims has no jurors.

    Edited to add:

    You can appeal the judges decision in small claims and get to a jury at trial though.
  • detroitfan2detroitfan2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days. >>



    Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are.
  • He said the guy was actually a "normal guy". He told me that he told the guy that he needed to open up the 51 Mantle from the screw in case and the guy was freakin out about in (in the sense that he didn't want it to get damaged.)

    Maybe the seller was telling the truth but at this point he needs to do whats right and refund the money I believe. The seller wont because the seller after being confronted about this over the phone was telling the dealer "ok, go ahead and try to sue me" when my dealer friend was just saying "hey, lets just take care of this ourselves and not get the legal system involved." He tried to handle the situation as best as he could. Losing $2200 is no joke.
    Always looking for Jose Canseco cards to add to my PC. Please PM me if you want to get rid of them.

    Foo3112's Collection


  • << <i>I have a dealer friend that met some guy on Craigslist that was selling some Mantles... >>



    That's all you needed to know to know it would end badly.


  • << <i>

    << <i>I have a dealer friend that met some guy on Craigslist that was selling some Mantles... >>



    That's all you needed to know to know it would end badly. >>



    I've had extreme success on craigslist.

  • Well, then it must be safe. My bad. Carry on.
  • 1980scollector1980scollector Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭
    Was the sellers name Sean?
    ** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think Topps may want to prosecute. >>




    Absolutely, without question


  • << <i>Well, then it must be safe. My bad. Carry on. >>



    I never said that, I said that I have had success on craigslist.

    Same thing as GAI packs... There is your fair share of BS but there are plenty of good ones.
  • I'm going to want to shoot myself for asking the obvious, but if your friend couldn't tell that some of the cards were bogus when he bought them, how did he determine that they were not good after the fact? And if they were sent to PSA, what was the cause for rejection? This story seems to have more holes than a slice of Alpine Lace Swiss...
    MOO,
    Scott

    Looking to Upgrade my 1948 Leaf Football Master Set. Buying 1948 Leaf FB Autos, 1894 N302 Football, 19th Century Football Cabinets.
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 9,086 ✭✭
    i'm changing my name to Mantle World Dumpster.
    "I know this board has a tendency to sometimes go ballistic or act like two-day starved pirhana surrounding fresh meat flung into the water."
    ~DeutscherGeist~
  • sorry to hear that, but its a done deal unless he wants to chuck a rock through the window image
    like someone said, the seller can always claim that the cards were switched if he tries to take them to court/police
    (unless he has the scans from the CL ad, that may help)

    Topps cant and wont do anything (lawsuit) on cards 40-50 years old

    Im guessing he is a newbie to older Topps cards

    in person, fakes of those card should never fool some one who handles them often.

    For newbies....... always buy a common or two from each set you want to collect before you go to shows etc. that way you can easily match up the cards (size mainly, but also the surface gloss, stock thickness, back color, back stock color, wear characteristics, etc.)
    PreWar baseball "type card" collector
  • if your friend couldn't tell that some of the cards were bogus when he bought them, how did he determine that they were not good after the fact?

    Good Question - At the card show he showed a couple of very knowledgeable guys who deal mostly in vintage which they pointed out that it was a bad purchase. He also then compared with other "actual" Mantle cards and realized he had been taken.
    Always looking for Jose Canseco cards to add to my PC. Please PM me if you want to get rid of them.

    Foo3112's Collection


  • << <i>

    << <i>Well, then it must be safe. My bad. Carry on. >>



    I never said that, I said that I have had success on craigslist.

    Same thing as GAI packs... There is your fair share of BS but there are plenty of good ones. >>



    Congratulations on your extreme success, but it's the first post I've seen on these forums involving Craiglist that didn't mention someone getting screwed with a rusty railroad spike.

  • TonyCTonyC Posts: 1,405 ✭✭


    << <i>I'm going to want to shoot myself for asking the obvious, but if your friend couldn't tell that some of the cards were bogus when he bought them, how did he determine that they were not good after the fact? And if they were sent to PSA, what was the cause for rejection? This story seems to have more holes than a slice of Alpine Lace Swiss... >>



    The end of the OP: "Maybe the seller really thinks there real but they are definitely not after checking with 2 other trusted and reputable sources." I don't know who the two sources were, though.

    One point: if the friend had the where with all to consult experts after the fact, did he ever think to go with the seller to a card store and consult the owner's opinion? I have had people from craigslist come into my store before and solicit free advice from me on matters such as this, so this may be something for him to consider in the future.

    fkw's advice to have a "holotype," if you will, is also a good tidbit.
    Collecting Tony Conigliaro
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,827 ✭✭✭
    Who else here thinks the OP is the buyer?


    Good for you.


  • << <i>Who else here thinks the OP is the buyer? >>



    I thought that as soon as I read it.

    I Just didn't care to comment. Still don't really but what the heck.


  • << <i> I advised to maybe have a policeman show up to the guys house with him... >>


    Exactly. Cops, believe it or not, are well-versed in what's a fake Mantle or not, and are readily available to go to whatever house anyone may direct them to in order to resolve these kind of disputes.
  • goraidersgoraiders Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭

    Can we at least see scans of these Mantles and see where you went wrong?Could be
    a learning exercise for others so they dont fall victim,you know..
    J.R.
    Needs'
    1972 Football-9's high#'s
    1965 Football-8's
    1958 Topps FB-7-8
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> I advised to maybe have a policeman show up to the guys house with him... >>


    Exactly. Cops, believe it or not, are well-versed in what's a fake Mantle or not, and are readily available to go to whatever house anyone may direct them to in order to resolve these kind of disputes. >>




    Your friend just needs to know which department of law enforcement will handle this. Make sure he contacts the "Fake Vintage Sports Collectibles Bureau". Most local PDs have an FVSCB. They're usually next door to the vice squad. They'll send a team over.
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days. >>



    Small claims has no jurors.

    Edited to add:

    You can appeal the judges decision in small claims and get to a jury at trial though. >>




    uhhhh....no kidding! I guess you "missed it"
    Some people are like slinkies..Not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you push one down a flight of stairs.

    yup
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,827 ✭✭✭
    I hate to say it but Scott might be right.


    Good for you.
  • brendanb438brendanb438 Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭
    Your friend, or you, or whoever has zero recourse. The police are not going to get involved, they will tell you it is a civil matter. A judge in a small claims court will throw this out since all the seller has to claim is you switched the cards or claim to have never sold you anything in the first place since you have zero evidence he did.

    You could try to have a lawyer scare the seller by sending him some scary legal letters to see if he will refund you the money, but the reality of this is you jumped into purchasing something when you were way over your head, you made a mistake, and now you are out $2200. As mentioned live and learn.

    Now illegal methods of getting your money back, you have multiple options but this isn't the place to discuss them.
  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days. >>



    Small claims has no jurors.

    Edited to add:

    You can appeal the judges decision in small claims and get to a jury at trial though. >>




    uhhhh....no kidding! I guess you "missed it" >>




    Sean, let me get you up to speed. Ya see.....Foo expressed his discontent about being selected for jury duty yesterday. He started a thread right here on the sports cards forum trying to find away out of his civil obligations. To make a long story short, it got more replies in the 2 hours of its life (before being poofed) while good threads like lawnmowermans jersey collection thread, or packs with stars on top thread got pushed to page 2.

    No disrespect Foo, but if that thread didn't get deleted, I was gonna go on a ttt frenzy.


  • << <i>I hate to say it but Scott might be right. >>



    Oh, Steeeeeve, we know you just like cheese with a good whine... image
    MOO,
    Scott

    Looking to Upgrade my 1948 Leaf Football Master Set. Buying 1948 Leaf FB Autos, 1894 N302 Football, 19th Century Football Cabinets.


  • << <i>Now illegal methods of getting your money back, you have multiple options but this isn't the place to discuss them. >>



    Exactly. Check the "I Just Got &$#@* Like Everyone Else on Craigslist (except Sean) and Want Someone's Legs Broken" forum on the SGC message boards.

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭
    image












    image





    If your friend is in the market for a Michael Jordan Star rookie I will let this mint condition one go for just $7,500.


    All kidding aside. He is basically out the dough. This card I posted is a counterfeit copy I bought on EBAY for like $8. Most people including me are not even trained to know if they are real or not and PSA quit grading them because of it.


    If someone got their hands on this they would not immediately think it was fake and so in reality there is a chance he did not even know. That being said most do but since this was a cash transaction like the others said the ability to defend that is very remote.

    Just tell your friend he went to Vegas and gambled a few bucks away and to be more careful next time. It sucks to lose $2,200 but in the big picture it is not the end of the world.

  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,827 ✭✭✭
    He did not lose 2,200.00 he did get other cards in the deal.

    And, what happened to my Jujubes thread?


    Good for you.
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    And, what happened to my Jujubes thread? >>



    People wanted the Dots.
    Some people are like slinkies..Not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you push one down a flight of stairs.

    yup
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