Craigslist Scammer got away with $2200
Foo3112
Posts: 1,961
I have a dealer friend that met some guy on Craigslist that was selling some Mantles along with some other cards. Long story short, They met up and the Mantles were fake. He called the guy back and they spoke and the seller got really defensive and started cussing saying things like "those were my dads cards" and "are you out of your mind" and so on. He wont return the dealers calls now.
It was a 1951 Bowman, 1953 Topps and a 1962 Topps. Other cards were Jackie Robinson and Al Kaline and those were nice and graded but the Mantles weren't. He goggled the guy and he found out that hes a graffix designer and his address matched his phone number so he knows where he lives. I advised to maybe have a policeman show up to the guys house with him to get his money back and to call Topps so they can also press charges for distributing fake Tops cards. I think Topps may want to prosecute.
They met at a local Ihop and the cards were all purchased for $2200 cash. My friend told me that all he would like is his money back - he would even be willing to let the guy keep $100 for his troubles. Maybe the seller really thinks there real but they are definitely not after checking with 2 other trusted and reputable sources.
How can this situation be handled best?
Marc
It was a 1951 Bowman, 1953 Topps and a 1962 Topps. Other cards were Jackie Robinson and Al Kaline and those were nice and graded but the Mantles weren't. He goggled the guy and he found out that hes a graffix designer and his address matched his phone number so he knows where he lives. I advised to maybe have a policeman show up to the guys house with him to get his money back and to call Topps so they can also press charges for distributing fake Tops cards. I think Topps may want to prosecute.
They met at a local Ihop and the cards were all purchased for $2200 cash. My friend told me that all he would like is his money back - he would even be willing to let the guy keep $100 for his troubles. Maybe the seller really thinks there real but they are definitely not after checking with 2 other trusted and reputable sources.
How can this situation be handled best?
Marc
0
Comments
eyebone.
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
Edited for Eyebone - Once I bought concert tickets from a guy on Craigslist also and the show ended up getting cancelled. I called the guy back and requested a refund but I let him keep like $20 in the end. Technically, he didn't even have to return my call and Id rather lose $20 than the whole $150 I paid at that time. So $100 out of $2200 is nothing.
<< <i>there real >>
THEY'RE real.
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
<< <i> THEY'RE real. >>
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
Thats what I was thinking.
Like someone mentioned, I think hes now the owner of some bogus Mantles.
<< <i>Maybe he should give up on being a dealer.
Thats what I was thinking.
Like someone mentioned, I think hes now the owner of some bogus Mantles. >>
Speaking as a dealer, you NEVER put out money, no matter how much, unless:
A) You are 100% positive that the items are real, or
out later, and is the one pulling the swindle.
...Great advice Tony. Option B sounds like the best bet.
over and over again. it's agonizing.
Theres actually truth to that. He does sell them but I guess the whole "If its too good to be true, then it probably is" got the best of him. I wouldn't of wished that kind of loss on anyone. Such a shame.
<< <i>Cash transaction? At an IHOP? Hope your friend enjoys his Mantles, cause he's an owner. >>
I've actually met someone at Ihop before, ended up being a $500 vintage purchase. He was very very pleasant.
<< <i>I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days. >>
Small claims has no jurors.
Edited to add:
You can appeal the judges decision in small claims and get to a jury at trial though.
<< <i>I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days. >>
Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are.
Maybe the seller was telling the truth but at this point he needs to do whats right and refund the money I believe. The seller wont because the seller after being confronted about this over the phone was telling the dealer "ok, go ahead and try to sue me" when my dealer friend was just saying "hey, lets just take care of this ourselves and not get the legal system involved." He tried to handle the situation as best as he could. Losing $2200 is no joke.
<< <i>I have a dealer friend that met some guy on Craigslist that was selling some Mantles... >>
That's all you needed to know to know it would end badly.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have a dealer friend that met some guy on Craigslist that was selling some Mantles... >>
That's all you needed to know to know it would end badly. >>
I've had extreme success on craigslist.
Well, then it must be safe. My bad. Carry on.
<< <i>I think Topps may want to prosecute. >>
Absolutely, without question
<< <i>Well, then it must be safe. My bad. Carry on. >>
I never said that, I said that I have had success on craigslist.
Same thing as GAI packs... There is your fair share of BS but there are plenty of good ones.
like someone said, the seller can always claim that the cards were switched if he tries to take them to court/police
(unless he has the scans from the CL ad, that may help)
Topps cant and wont do anything (lawsuit) on cards 40-50 years old
Im guessing he is a newbie to older Topps cards
in person, fakes of those card should never fool some one who handles them often.
For newbies....... always buy a common or two from each set you want to collect before you go to shows etc. that way you can easily match up the cards (size mainly, but also the surface gloss, stock thickness, back color, back stock color, wear characteristics, etc.)
Good Question - At the card show he showed a couple of very knowledgeable guys who deal mostly in vintage which they pointed out that it was a bad purchase. He also then compared with other "actual" Mantle cards and realized he had been taken.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, then it must be safe. My bad. Carry on. >>
I never said that, I said that I have had success on craigslist.
Same thing as GAI packs... There is your fair share of BS but there are plenty of good ones. >>
Congratulations on your extreme success, but it's the first post I've seen on these forums involving Craiglist that didn't mention someone getting screwed with a rusty railroad spike.
<< <i>I'm going to want to shoot myself for asking the obvious, but if your friend couldn't tell that some of the cards were bogus when he bought them, how did he determine that they were not good after the fact? And if they were sent to PSA, what was the cause for rejection? This story seems to have more holes than a slice of Alpine Lace Swiss... >>
The end of the OP: "Maybe the seller really thinks there real but they are definitely not after checking with 2 other trusted and reputable sources." I don't know who the two sources were, though.
One point: if the friend had the where with all to consult experts after the fact, did he ever think to go with the seller to a card store and consult the owner's opinion? I have had people from craigslist come into my store before and solicit free advice from me on matters such as this, so this may be something for him to consider in the future.
fkw's advice to have a "holotype," if you will, is also a good tidbit.
<< <i>Who else here thinks the OP is the buyer? >>
I thought that as soon as I read it.
I Just didn't care to comment. Still don't really but what the heck.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i> I advised to maybe have a policeman show up to the guys house with him... >>
Exactly. Cops, believe it or not, are well-versed in what's a fake Mantle or not, and are readily available to go to whatever house anyone may direct them to in order to resolve these kind of disputes.
Can we at least see scans of these Mantles and see where you went wrong?Could be
a learning exercise for others so they dont fall victim,you know..
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
<< <i>
<< <i> I advised to maybe have a policeman show up to the guys house with him... >>
Exactly. Cops, believe it or not, are well-versed in what's a fake Mantle or not, and are readily available to go to whatever house anyone may direct them to in order to resolve these kind of disputes. >>
Your friend just needs to know which department of law enforcement will handle this. Make sure he contacts the "Fake Vintage Sports Collectibles Bureau". Most local PDs have an FVSCB. They're usually next door to the vice squad. They'll send a team over.
<< <i>
<< <i>I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days. >>
Small claims has no jurors.
Edited to add:
You can appeal the judges decision in small claims and get to a jury at trial though. >>
uhhhh....no kidding! I guess you "missed it"
You could try to have a lawyer scare the seller by sending him some scary legal letters to see if he will refund you the money, but the reality of this is you jumped into purchasing something when you were way over your head, you made a mistake, and now you are out $2200. As mentioned live and learn.
Now illegal methods of getting your money back, you have multiple options but this isn't the place to discuss them.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I hope this doesnt go to court, its tough finding jurors these days. >>
Small claims has no jurors.
Edited to add:
You can appeal the judges decision in small claims and get to a jury at trial though. >>
uhhhh....no kidding! I guess you "missed it" >>
Sean, let me get you up to speed. Ya see.....Foo expressed his discontent about being selected for jury duty yesterday. He started a thread right here on the sports cards forum trying to find away out of his civil obligations. To make a long story short, it got more replies in the 2 hours of its life (before being poofed) while good threads like lawnmowermans jersey collection thread, or packs with stars on top thread got pushed to page 2.
No disrespect Foo, but if that thread didn't get deleted, I was gonna go on a ttt frenzy.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
<< <i>I hate to say it but Scott might be right. >>
Oh, Steeeeeve, we know you just like cheese with a good whine...
<< <i>Now illegal methods of getting your money back, you have multiple options but this isn't the place to discuss them. >>
Exactly. Check the "I Just Got &$#@* Like Everyone Else on Craigslist (except Sean) and Want Someone's Legs Broken" forum on the SGC message boards.
If your friend is in the market for a Michael Jordan Star rookie I will let this mint condition one go for just $7,500.
All kidding aside. He is basically out the dough. This card I posted is a counterfeit copy I bought on EBAY for like $8. Most people including me are not even trained to know if they are real or not and PSA quit grading them because of it.
If someone got their hands on this they would not immediately think it was fake and so in reality there is a chance he did not even know. That being said most do but since this was a cash transaction like the others said the ability to defend that is very remote.
Just tell your friend he went to Vegas and gambled a few bucks away and to be more careful next time. It sucks to lose $2,200 but in the big picture it is not the end of the world.
And, what happened to my Jujubes thread?
<< <i>
And, what happened to my Jujubes thread? >>
People wanted the Dots.