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I think B&M's get a bad rap.
silvereagle
Posts: 290 ✭
I know there are some B&M's who will rip people off, but as far as my experience most b&m's have been very fair to me. I have generally gotten at least 95% spot when selling my silver to a b&M.
To me, its amazing how many private sellers ask idiotic prices or try to be for 1/2 or even 1/3 spot. Craigslist has been a total waste for me. In my area, everyone on CL is either trying to buy 90% for 12 X face or trying to sell it for 45 X face. It just makes me think "wow, and people say b&m's will rip you off". I just checked ebid and its amazing how everyone is trying to sell silver dime rolls for $225 or silver quarter or half rolls for $400 + or individual silver halfs for $22. I looked through 10 pages of absolutely laughable prices ( and these prices were laughable even before the recent price drop ) before finally giving up.
Seems if I want to buy something, my local b&m will give me a much better price than most private parties tring to sell on the internet, and if I want to sell the best price still comes at the b&m. And shipping is not a factor, because those $5 silver dime rolls they wanted $225 for, that was before the $14.95 shipping charge.
Anyway I just have to say the b&m's get a bad rap. There are a few bad ones who kind of give them all a bad name, but I have 3 different ones in my area that I have dealt with and I know with silver at $30 an ounce they would be paying no less than 20X and asking no more than 23 X, which to me is a pretty reasonable spread.
To me, its amazing how many private sellers ask idiotic prices or try to be for 1/2 or even 1/3 spot. Craigslist has been a total waste for me. In my area, everyone on CL is either trying to buy 90% for 12 X face or trying to sell it for 45 X face. It just makes me think "wow, and people say b&m's will rip you off". I just checked ebid and its amazing how everyone is trying to sell silver dime rolls for $225 or silver quarter or half rolls for $400 + or individual silver halfs for $22. I looked through 10 pages of absolutely laughable prices ( and these prices were laughable even before the recent price drop ) before finally giving up.
Seems if I want to buy something, my local b&m will give me a much better price than most private parties tring to sell on the internet, and if I want to sell the best price still comes at the b&m. And shipping is not a factor, because those $5 silver dime rolls they wanted $225 for, that was before the $14.95 shipping charge.
Anyway I just have to say the b&m's get a bad rap. There are a few bad ones who kind of give them all a bad name, but I have 3 different ones in my area that I have dealt with and I know with silver at $30 an ounce they would be paying no less than 20X and asking no more than 23 X, which to me is a pretty reasonable spread.
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Most are professionals and businesspeople, so even though some may be lacking in interpersonal skills or personal hygiene, you're right... most B&M dealers are not as evil as they're cracked up to be.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
ad 1 --- roll of mercury dimes for $180
ad 2 ------3 morgans, 3 peace, and 3 silver eagles. 9 common dates for $575. WOW
ad 3 ----- 7 mercury dimes $39 ( pic included and the dimes are all well worn
ad 4 --- get extra christmas money, buying your 90% at 14 X
I will stcik to b & M
<< <i>I'm guessing that most people have few issues with B&Ms and bullion transactions. >>
The problem is most private sellers who take their PM to a B&M are thinking retail prices, along with eBay asking prices, as what they want for their gold and silver. They don't understand that dealers and B&Ms don't pay retail prices, but buy at wholesale prices instead.
In the long run, no one's arm is being twisted to accept the buy offer from any dealer or B&M.
The door opens for you to leave the shop just as easily as it opened when you came in.
I was at the local, bimonthly coin expo this past Sunday, and a lot of people brought in PM coins to sell to dealers and many were getting frustrated over the offers they were receiving. I explained to several of them they will get wholesale price offers from the dealers and not retail as dealers sell at retail for a profit. Many of them didn't get the concept.
They're a sterotypical B&M. The shop is completely cluttered with books, boxes, etc. stacked on the floor. Boxes and baskets of coins strewn in the bottom of their cases. Completely disorganized. Everything in their cases is marked high retail. You never see anything new.
I've been in there a few times but it's not worth the trip. I would never sell anything to them.
Seriously, I think they must make most of their money buying stuff that people have no idea of the value, or stolen stuff, which they can make a quick buck flipping to other dealers. I don't know, but it's hard to believe they make money on their retail business. They don't even attend local shows. I have no idea how they stay in business. I've never seen any serious collectors of anything in there, just people looking to sell stuff, or buy something for a gift.
<< <i>My local B&M buys at 50-60% of melt and sells for 125-130% of melt.
I don't know, but it's hard to believe they make money on their retail business.
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Wow, Thats BS. I have never had a B&M off er me 50-60%, only been offered that by private buyers.
Its true, they would probably make more by offering 90% of melt then by offering just 50%. Better to make a little many times, then to make a lot once.
You got to cover your bills if you plan to stay in business and if it takes 30k a month to keep the doors swinging you got to figure out how to make that much off of x amount of customers.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
type2,CCHunter.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>The door opens for you to leave the shop just as easily as it opened when you came in. >>
I went to a B&M in midtown Manhattan (coins and other "collectibles") where they locked you in, and kept trying to show you more stuff even when you made it quite clear that you wished to leave.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>You right 99% of B&M's give the 1% a bad name >>
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I also have a B&M about 20 minutes away that once corrected an error in my favor earlier this year. I was there selling silver close to the peak (GSR trading) and when he counted the quarter rolls he corrected my total by telling me I had an extra roll. Needless to say I'll be a customer for life!
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<< <i>You right 99% of B&M's give the 1% a bad name >>
In my personal experance at B&M's my statement is correct
<< <i>My local B&M buys at 50-60% of melt and sells for 125-130% of melt.
They're a sterotypical B&M. The shop is completely cluttered with books, boxes, etc. stacked on the floor. Boxes and baskets of coins strewn in the bottom of their cases. Completely disorganized. Everything in their cases is marked high retail. You never see anything new.
I've been in there a few times but it's not worth the trip. I would never sell anything to them.
Seriously, I think they must make most of their money buying stuff that people have no idea of the value, or stolen stuff, which they can make a quick buck flipping to other dealers. I don't know, but it's hard to believe they make money on their retail business. They don't even attend local shows. I have no idea how they stay in business. I've never seen any serious collectors of anything in there, just people looking to sell stuff, or buy something for a gift. >>
This basically sums up my favourite local B&M shop. I think the owner makes most of their money off stamps, even though I rarely see many displayed.
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<< <i>You right 99% of B&M's give the 1% a bad name >>
In my personal experance at B&M's my statement is correct >>
Yes, it is correctly a lower form of discrimination. Thank you for proving that.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Besides being embarassing for my son and I, turned him off real fast!!
Are you guys mad that you have to go to work to make a living or what!!! WTF!!
Gun shops and coin shops, two places where you walk in with money to spend and almost always get treated like...dung!
<< <i>Ok, well, I just opened up a little B&M in Boerne Texas. Wanted to do something with my time while the girl was in school. I dont think Im a bad guy, I have no idea if Ill even turn a profit. I just wanted to make a man cave, toss some horns on the wall, coins in a case, and watch tv when its slow. Got some kids, bring em by, I like to talk about starting type sets. as for buying and selling, i own everything in the place so its low overhead. Other than that, Ive seen rotten B&Ms and good ones. same as with people. >>
Best of luck with your new venture! I would love to open up shop so casually... one of these days I will.
The few local places I have visited that actually sell coins don't carry anything that interests me. The guy who owned the closest B & M shop to my home filed BK with the gold bust of 1981, and did four years in the big house because he stole quite a bit of money from his customers before going BK. In all honestly, I don't think the people who run the place now have much more integrity than this guy did.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>I went into my local Coin shop with my 14 year old kid and was looking through some silver junk to buy and my kid puts his hands on his lap for some reason and the owner says loud enough for everyone in the shop to hear "keep your hands up on the table!"
Besides being embarassing for my son and I, turned him off real fast!!
Are you guys mad that you have to go to work to make a living or what!!! WTF!!
This happened to me once. Granted I was nervous/excited to get to see a pile of fresh peace dollars, but it made me feel really uncomfortable and embarassed like I was some criminal. Stopped going shortly after that.
<< <i>I went into my local Coin shop with my 14 year old kid and was looking through some silver junk to buy and my kid puts his hands on his lap for some reason and the owner says loud enough for everyone in the shop to hear "keep your hands up on the table!" >>
Heck, njcoincrank once said that to me at a show when I was sitting at his table.
Of course, he wasn't loud or angry, he was helping to educate me on coin show etiquette for customers. I appreciated it.
I would not feel the same way if a shop owner yelled that across the room at me, that's for sure!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
My relatives have been given instructions never to sell my collection to these jerks in case something happens to me.
<< <i>The B & M dealers in my area are incompetent.
My relatives have been given instructions never to sell my collection to these jerks in case something happens to me. >>
You'll find that most are incompetent. Without greysheet they won't survive. Whilie a few maybe 1% are good most a high priced rip off shops basicly HSN locally
Their collector base of old is gone, maybe to other venues or just too broke.
Turbo, did this dealer know you or your son? While his approach was completely uncalled for, I can't blame him for being uncomfortable. How hard would it have been for your son to slip 50, 100, 200 in silver into his pockets. If you are buying a few bullion pieces, he may have been taking a calculated risk that alienating you as a customer was worth more than the profit he would make off you now and in the future. Based on your attitude I would guess that is the case.
These aren't (by far) the only B&M's I've been to, though. There are a lot of crappy ones out there. I can understand why the buy prices are lower and sell prices are higher, as they have a building to rent/maintain. What I don't understand is the utter lack of customer service skills, or even basic interpersonal communication skills, of some of the people I've run into behind the counter at other shops. I've seen rudeness to kids (who are desparately needed in the hobby) and senior citizens alike, often in answering novice questions. I've walked into a shop with no other customers, and the guy behind the counter didn't even say hello or acknowledge I was there, then act irritated when I asked to see something. These types of things are inexcusable, IMHO, and if I see them at a B&M, I won't go back. This seems like the kind of thing the ANA and PNG could help with, simply by making available some basic customer service training to those who want it.
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Turbo, did this dealer know you or your son? While his approach was completely uncalled for, I can't blame him for being uncomfortable. How hard would it have been for your son to slip 50, 100, 200 in silver into his pockets. If you are buying a few bullion pieces, he may have been taking a calculated risk that alienating you as a customer was worth more than the profit he would make off you now and in the future. Based on your attitude I would guess that is the case. >>
Really? The kid might slip 200 silver dollars in his pocket?
I have only sold coins at a B&M where I have bought things for 15 years. When silver was high, I saw people walk into the shop cold to sell silverware and jars of silver coin, and they were also treated fairly. Since I have a history with this and another B&M, I would never think of walking into another shop cold to sell something.
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Turbo, did this dealer know you or your son? While his approach was completely uncalled for, I can't blame him for being uncomfortable. How hard would it have been for your son to slip 50, 100, 200 in silver into his pockets. If you are buying a few bullion pieces, he may have been taking a calculated risk that alienating you as a customer was worth more than the profit he would make off you now and in the future. Based on your attitude I would guess that is the case. >>
Really? The kid might slip 200 silver dollars in his pocket?
I think what he meant is slip $50-200 silver value into his pocket which would not be to hard with silver dollars running around $30 each (2-7 coins).
It is still worth going to the local B&M's for lower to mid-priced coins as they do get some surprises. My collecting now is too eclectic for the B&M's, except for some fun items. The coins I still have from the earlier days were generally purchased for a fraction of their current value, XF bust halves for $30, and my only $20 Lib was a MS 1884-S purchased for $355! Collecting was more enjoyable for me in those days before the TPG's, as nice coins were much less expensive for the collectors who had knowledge of their series an could make good choices.
First, I could give rats shuggies about the bullion buying and selling, but that is what my nearest shop does, the rest of the stuff has dust on it in the cases. The other shop, makes his money doing currency exchange. Both should NOT be listed as coin shops but rather some other name in my opinion. I am ready to buy, but neither has a damn lincoln cent to sell.
WS
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<< <i>You right 99% of B&M's give the 1% a bad name >>
In my personal experance at B&M's my statement is correct >>
Two local B&M's in my area.... both have sold me things, some of which I took back a few years later as my direction in collecting changed. The first dealer with whom I had done quite a bit of business with offered to buy back a SLQ (which he sold to me as a 64 accurately graded IMHO) as a pocket piece "obviously whizzed" i declined and never returned. The second just recently re-purchased a gold half eagle he sold to me. although i made money on the deal, he commented that the piece would go to a wholesaler because it had been cleaned and he would never want to sell something like that to one of his customers.....
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>I have been in many B&M's.... I have never had a good experience. Prices were out of line, RickO >>
Did you make a counteroffer to the out of line prices?
<< <i>I have been in many B&M's.... I have never had a good experience. A few were mediocre... for example, I was politely ignored. Prices were out of line, conversation was condescending, and in all but one, the place was a mess. (14 shops that I recall). Cheers, RickO >>
Sounds like a number of dealers I see at shows whose tables I now always ignore. If you want me to "name names," please send a PM.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
This brings up another thought I have had for awhile!!! What do collectors and vest pocket dealers think about the overhead dealers who set up at shows have? Baltimore costs me at least 3K before I sell a coin!
What say Yee! ?
<< <i>Pennyannie, I hate to break it to you but that is actually sometimes the case. If someone is stocking quality material, they may have actually paid up for it. I know it may be hard to believe because all of their material is stolen from little old ladies and widows. People here are complaining that stores don't pay up yet you are complaining when they are asking more money for a coin when they did pay up. Which way do you want it? Its like those people who want to cut taxes to everyone, not cut services and not cut benefits. It is not congruent.
Turbo, did this dealer know you or your son? While his approach was completely uncalled for, I can't blame him for being uncomfortable. How hard would it have been for your son to slip 50, 100, 200 in silver into his pockets. If you are buying a few bullion pieces, he may have been taking a calculated risk that alienating you as a customer was worth more than the profit he would make off you now and in the future. Based on your attitude I would guess that is the case. >>
Greeniejr- The local B&M's are not stepping up to buy quality material to mark it up 20 bucks, the only way that would happen is if they screwed up and thought they were going to hit a home run and not a foul ball. There is some stolen material and little old ladies that get ripped becase we have all seen it during trips to the B&M. I am glad i do not have to stoop that low to make a living but it is not against the law. There is not a lot of quality material being bought by the local B&M's around me over the course of a year. It would be a very low percent of total business. B&M's local are just glorified pawn shops, a lot of the sellers go to both. As i have stated eariler i do not blame them for low ball offers, you got to pay the bills and keep the lights on and you got just a handful of customers to do it on compared to a gas station, wallmart etc. There is about 5 local coin stores i hit on a regular basis for non quaility stuff ( magazines books, albums, bullion, bags of wheat cents etc.) Most of them do not have proof coins from 1890 to 1942 or ms66 morgans etc. The coin trays are filled with the same coins for the last 10 years that i have been going into the stores. It sure seems that a lot of raw merc dimes, washington quarters, lincoln cents, jefferson nickels, buffalo nickels sit there year after year. A lot of smaller local B@M's are anti certified coins and IMO that is done on purpose to pad the bottom line.
If a lot of dealers are only making 20 bucks on a 1000 dollar coin they should find a new line of work. B&M's that make the show circut may do business different but a lot of B&M's do not set up at the big shows.
When you get above the local show level to where the big boys play what percent of those guys even own a actual B&M that is open daily to the masses?
I am not in retail business, do not own a store, have any desire to have a store but i get calls daily to buy guns, cars, coins, tools, anything of value from renters , friends or family members of renters looking to sell stuff. They call me after they get those low ball offers to see if i will pay a liittle more.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
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<< <i>I have been in many B&M's.... I have never had a good experience. Prices were out of line, RickO >>
Did you make a counteroffer to the out of line prices? >>
Unless the prices were at least close to being realistic, my experience has been that it's a waste of my time to make a serious offer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>B&M's local are just glorified pawn shops, >>
I think this describes what the real problem with B&M's is. They aren't places where someone can go and enjoy the hobby.
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<< <i>Pennyannie, I hate to break it to you but that is actually sometimes the case. If someone is stocking quality material, they may have actually paid up for it. I know it may be hard to believe because all of their material is stolen from little old ladies and widows. People here are complaining that stores don't pay up yet you are complaining when they are asking more money for a coin when they did pay up. Which way do you want it? Its like those people who want to cut taxes to everyone, not cut services and not cut benefits. It is not congruent.
Turbo, did this dealer know you or your son? While his approach was completely uncalled for, I can't blame him for being uncomfortable. How hard would it have been for your son to slip 50, 100, 200 in silver into his pockets. If you are buying a few bullion pieces, he may have been taking a calculated risk that alienating you as a customer was worth more than the profit he would make off you now and in the future. Based on your attitude I would guess that is the case. >>
Greeniejr- The local B&M's are not stepping up to buy quality material to mark it up 20 bucks, the only way that would happen is if they screwed up and thought they were going to hit a home run and not a foul ball. There is some stolen material and little old ladies that get ripped becase we have all seen it during trips to the B&M. I am glad i do not have to stoop that low to make a living but it is not against the law. There is not a lot of quality material being bought by the local B&M's around me over the course of a year. It would be a very low percent of total business. B&M's local are just glorified pawn shops, a lot of the sellers go to both. As i have stated eariler i do not blame them for low ball offers, you got to pay the bills and keep the lights on and you got just a handful of customers to do it on compared to a gas station, wallmart etc. There is about 5 local coin stores i hit on a regular basis for non quaility stuff ( magazines books, albums, bullion, bags of wheat cents etc.) Most of them do not have proof coins from 1890 to 1942 or ms66 morgans etc. The coin trays are filled with the same coins for the last 10 years that i have been going into the stores. It sure seems that a lot of raw merc dimes, washington quarters, lincoln cents, jefferson nickels, buffalo nickels sit there year after year. A lot of smaller local B@M's are anti certified coins and IMO that is done on purpose to pad the bottom line.
If a lot of dealers are only making 20 bucks on a 1000 dollar coin they should find a new line of work. B&M's that make the show circut may do business different but a lot of B&M's do not set up at the big shows.
When you get above the local show level to where the big boys play what percent of those guys even own a actual B&M that is open daily to the masses?
I am not in retail business, do not own a store, have any desire to have a store but i get calls daily to buy guns, cars, coins, tools, anything of value from renters , friends or family members of renters looking to sell stuff. They call me after they get those low ball offers to see if i will pay a liittle more.
Then there are those of us who are large national players who also have a shop. There are not many of us but we do exist. We buy coins at shows and sometimes I will only make a few percent just to move merchandise that has gone stale. I can think of cases where the scenario you suggest actually did happen where I made $20 on a $1000 coin. If that was happening all the time clearly it would not be worth my time to be in business. I am not sure what kind of junkyards you are going to but you are picking the wrong ones.
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Greeniejr- Well said.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"