Home Precious Metals

Protecting PM's with iron*****Update*****

JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
OK, I will man up. I've never been a huge fan of guns and I really don't know much about them. I do respect them however. I want to buy a gun for home defense . I don't actually keep PM's at home but I want to make this thread compliant. Suggestions? Point and click and deadly would be fine by me. Cost is not important to me. I will take the necessary firearms lessons as well. TIA. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My preference is the walther ppks .380 semi in stainless. not too big and has enough firepower. If you were to ever pursue a concealed license, it works good for that as well. To safely and effectively use a handgun one must feel he is the master of it and not be intimidated by it. That requires hands on at the range and training is not a bad idea.

    Hopefully TexasNationals will chime in his opinion is greatly respected by many. I believe he has a particular .380 that he is partial to.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MJ, Gun laws are different in every state. If I were you, I would check with your local police dept. and see if they offer any gun safety courses. Once you get your license, then start thinking of what type of firearm fits your needs. Also...think about what type of license you want to get. License to carry? large capacity? small capacity?
  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the "36 oz of All-steel thread", below, has quite a few comments about the 410 Judge.

    Whatever you go with...SAFETY FIRST.

    Be sure to actually use what you buy, get used to it, learn how it works
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm in the same boat as MJ.

    need some starter weapon advice.

    Classes? Of course. (The male side of the family have historically been the hunter types. I've alreay heard the point it at what you plan to kill lecture. Proceeeding from there is an easy step to take)

    the semiauto vs revolver has already been discussed in another thread.


    got one semiauto rec.

    what about a revolver rec?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was brought up in a boxing background and have always used my fists when warranted. My father has a military background but never permitted guns in the house. Go figure. Hand to hand I'm fine. Hand to gun I would lose. I would never think of buying a gun without the training and range time. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,110 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I was brought up in a boxing background and have always used my fists when warranted. My father has a military background but never permitted guns in the house. Go figure. Hand to hand I'm fine. Hand to gun I would lose. I would never think of buying a gun without the training and range time. MJ >>


    Sounds like your dad was aware of the damage they could do, especially in untrained hands. I too was not brought up around guns. The biggest thing I had to get over was fear and intimidation. That is easily done on the range.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • Well I like the Walther PPK or the Sig 238 for a .380 that is easily concealable. The first question I would ask is whether you intend on carry this weapon or strictly having it at home? I assume you will want something to carry as a home only weapon I would go with a 12 gauge shotgun with #7 1/2 shot for indoor use, like a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. As for hand guns you can either go with a revolver or a auto, for a beginner typically autos are used. One thing to consider is you don't have to go with a smaller caliber as many due as they think it is easier to control. If I were to make a suggestion I would say a automatic 9mm is a good choice as it is controllable, fairly cheap to shoot and with the right ammunition (147 grain hollow point of some sort) is all the stopping power you will need. Just like coins you have circulated sets or #1 registry sets, you want to be #14 here. Not too cheap, not a custom shop gun either. Some reccomendations are

    Glock 17 (or 19 if you want it smaller)
    Sig 226
    HK USP (or USP-Compact if you want it smaller)
    Springfield XD

    I would get night sights as I have found strong armed robberies happen more at night so they are worth the extra 70 bucks, but not necessary. First and foremost as others have said, training, training and more training. Gun ranges, police departments (sometimes) and private instructors offer a myriad of training classes, start basic and go from there. Also get a concealed handgun license if you plan on carrying it as it isn't worth going to jail for protection when you can do it legally. PM me with any questions.

    TN
  • I forgot to add once you are trained you can carry pretty much anything you want, I have several carry guns, USP compact and Glock 19 in 9mm, Sig 238 and Walther PPK/S in .380, Beretta 21A in .22LR ( Strictly a last chance pocket gun) Kimber 1911 Compact in .45 and a Colt Delta Gold Cup in 10mm.

    Usually it is the Sig or Walther, .380, 6 + shots, extremely accurate and use ammunition designed to stop people, period.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stay away from pistols or other handguns. They can be inaccurate and a miss will send a bullet thru a wall into a bedroom.

    Get a shotgun- Double barrel 12 ga. Easy to load, quick to fire and can also be used as a club.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • Why buy a 2 shot double barrel when you can buy a pump for less and get 3 or more extra shots plus that ultra terrifying shotgun rack (pumping), that sound will deter just as much as seeing the dang thing?

    I grabbed 4 of my carry guns to give you a reference and put my watch in the pic for size, top left Glock 17, below it Glock 23, HK P7M8 and Sig 238 stainless .380.

    image
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    MJ, I suggest you go gun shopping at a big store with wide variety. Find one that fits your hand & feels comfortable. Shooting a pistol should be as natural as pointing your finger. If you could find a gun shop with a indoor range they should have some you could tryout/rent. That way you can find a good fit. I like revolvers for reliability & easy cleaning. I have a Charter Arms 38 special off duty with Pachmayr Grip. Home defense I prefer my DDBL 12 gauge Savage Stevensimage
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Stay away from pistols or other handguns. They can be inaccurate and a miss will send a bullet thru a wall into a bedroom.

    Get a shotgun- Double barrel 12 ga. Easy to load, quick to fire and can also be used as a club. >>



    My ex father in law slept with one under his bed. Everyone thought he was crazy. One night a meth head broke into his house. The meth head just got out of prison. He also has an old shot gun wound to his neck. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I was brought up in a boxing background and have always used my fists when warranted. My father has a military background but never permitted guns in the house. Go figure. Hand to hand I'm fine. Hand to gun I would lose. I would never think of buying a gun without the training and range time. MJ >>


    Sounds like your dad was aware of the damage they could do, especially in untrained hands. I too was not brought up around guns. The biggest thing I had to get over was fear and intimidation. That is easily done on the range. >>



    I think my dad was probably more afraid of my mom who ain't a fanimage

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice Glocks Texas! Unfortunately Glocks and Massachusetts dont get along. Cant buy new Glocks unless youre a cop. This is Smith and Wesson territory. Manufactured about 20 minutes from my home. image
  • Nice Glocks Texas! Unfortunately Glocks and Massachusetts dont get along. Cant buy new Glocks unless youre a cop. This is Smith and Wesson territory. Manufactured about 20 minutes from my home.


    Move! Just kidding, in Mass. the Walther PPK/S is illegal but it is my understanding the new Sig 238 is legal.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    sorta like your camera, point and shoot. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • sorta like your camera, point and shoot.

    Yeah, I never got into photo takers muchimage


  • << <i>Stay away from pistols or other handguns. They can be inaccurate and a miss will send a bullet thru a wall into a bedroom.

    Get a shotgun- Double barrel 12 ga. Easy to load, quick to fire and can also be used as a club. >>



    I bought my first gun 6 months ago. I went with a home defense shotgun, tucked away under my bed. I just hope I never have to use it.
  • Alright, I spent 15 minutes taking this one, best I can do. How is it, better?

    image
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nobody in my family had guns when I was growing up. I've taken the concealed carry course and joined a shooting range, and I have to say that it's been a good deal. There's no substitute for safety training and some familiarity.

    It didn't take too long to get hooked - I have to admit that I really like guns. I'm understanding much better now that each situation favors one type of gun over another. If I had to pick one, I sure wouldn't want to be standing in the way of my 20 gauge shotgun, but you can't really carry a shotgun around with you to Walmart or Dairy Queen.image

    I like shooting a revolver better than a semi-automatic, and I appreciate a longer barrel because it makes for a smoother shot. Still, a semi-automatic is more compact and handier to carry. My Glocks are very nice machines, and my little .380 Ruger LCP is like a mini-Glock for a pocket carry.

    The best thing you can do is spend time shooting and reloading, cleaning and getting to know each machine. Great stuff!
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • For home defense, a short barrel (18-19") 12 gauge shotgun is hard to beat.
    Load it up with 00 shot, point and shoot.
    It's absolutely devastating at close range and you're almost guaranteed to hit whatever you point it at.
    Just the sound of it being racked will put the fear of God into any would-be intruder.
    I just bought a .22 magnum automatic and a couple of hundred rounds of hollow point ammo. Powerful enough to stop an intruder but not powerful enough to go thru them and into innocent bystanders. I'll be taking it down to the firing range tomorrow to practice with it.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just comman, a 12guage pump is a most effective weapon along with a dog. For your home.

    Nothing will work if the bad guy gets the drop on you. Just give it up in that case and hope the hell you are insured. And don't ever leave loot in your car unattended.

    Criminals stake out their prey...and most of the time you are not aware eyes are on you. A lot of robberies are carried out by teams ...each with a specific assignment and the victim is 'watching' in one direction while the crime is taking place from another angle. A friend of mine with a shop just got hit for 30k last week in So Cal and never suspected it..until it was too late. Unattended vehicle...but they knew EXACTLY when he left the bank and where the money was in the car. Just like that guy in the Signal Hill coin shop thread a couple of years ago ----he too was probably being watched. Probably just like Julian last year.

    A good place to watch people with money is too see who leaves the bank each day at the same time. Alter your patterns.

    A lot of the guys I know in L.A. use Brinks for everything. And it's gonna get worse I believe.
    Have a nice day
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks all.

    streeter- I live in a neighborhood that hasn't had a break in the past 21 years according to police. However, on Weds night that changed. Somebody was laying in wait in my neighbors driveway. When my neighbor came home the guy tried to force him into his own house to rob him. All ended well and the would be burglar ran off. My bull mastiff was out in the yard doing her business did woof it up. They only bark under extreme stress (or an empty feeding bowl). In this case a gun wouldn't have helped. I do want more protection just the same........

    cohodk- I currently have a hockey stick under my bed. I think I'll add a shot gun

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • MJ, the most important piece of advice I can give is don't leave a gun under your bed, you won't get to it in time. I have loaded pistols and shotguns in every room including the crapper. I know that is not realistic to many, but you need to move your gun room to room with you. At first it is a PIA, after a few weeks, second nature. A loaded gun out of reach is not a loaded gun, but a regret, trust me.
  • MesquiteMesquite Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭
    I'm in full agreement with the shotgun if it is strictly to be used for home defense. In Texas you don't need a license to own a gun. Also, the car is considered an extension of your home - and again, no license for car-carry. If you want to conceal, then you need a license – around $400 to get one here (class, application fees, etc.). I own Sturm-Ruger; they are all reliable. One caliber you might consider is a .22 magnum revolver – and yes, Ruger makes one of these.
    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
    –John Adams, 1826
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    2nd Amendment who needs a "license" to own a gun?
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    just comman,

    My friend who lost the 30k hadn't had a problem for 16 years and...

    He's an ex Syrian 'marine' not a marine per se but the Syrian equivalent thereof. EXTREMELY street smart. Could be one nasty lad in a pinch. Never suspected he was being set up.

    As for your poochy...GOOD dog. Robbers hate dogs. My Rott seems to have a 6th sense about when to speak up.

    I vote more dogs and less of an arsenal.
    Have a nice day
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My Alabama. I posted her a few times before but what the heck. MJ
    imageText
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • That is a good looking Mastiffimage
  • MesquiteMesquite Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭
    BTW, I meant to include this website just as a point of reference regarding the law. There may well be many that are worth having reference to, this is one.

    Handgun laws in the US
    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
    –John Adams, 1826
  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    REAL MEN carry COLT"S image

    image

    image

    AMERICAN made,,,,,, real STEEL,,,,, not some piece of plastic crap image

    GrandAm image
    GrandAm :)
  • I love this thread, I agree with others. For home defense a 12 gauge mosberg with regular shells. I used to buy tac8 untill a guy at walmart told me that if i had a familly, i did not want something that could go trough a wall and kill a family member. the little pelets will hit target and shoul stop after they hit the drywall.
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you for bringing this topic up, MJ.

    I grew up around guns, the NRA at age 7 with a .22 rifle and range, then onto hunting and pistols thereafter.

    I absolutely love guns, as I suspect many others on this forum do!

    You love your dog, that is obvious. I love mine. Alabama is a good deterent, but he too requires protection.

    The shotgun is a great idea. Keep it close and ready. Then, as others have said, learn about handguns. It is a nice progression.

    I have a nearly blind albino friend that has a home shotgun. I fear for all in spitting distance when the crack head, or cranky chihuahua comes a knockin'!

    Who knows, you may get hooked....

    Miles
    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • No offense, but asking for gun advice on a coin forum is like asking for coin advice on a gun forum. If you want plenty of good gun info visit www.ar15.com. It's not just about AR15s, it is the largest and best gun owner's forum.

    There are many things about firearms and the behavior of their projectiles that are not common knowledge and may be counter intuitive. Racking a shotgun is not an effective way to scare off a burglar, please ask a cop what he thinks about this and be prepared to be laughed at. .380 automatics are notoriously prone to jamming and more difficult to shoot than larger guns in 9mm or even .45. Birdshot is for birds, not violent felons. It does not penetrate deep enough to incapacitate an assailant. The worst assumption is that you don't have to aim a shotgun. The pellets spread out a little bit but we are talking about home defense where your longest shot is 15-20 feet. We are talikng about a 2-3 inch circle at that range.

    The most important weapon is your mindset. If you have the proper mental conditioning and training with whatever weapon you choose you will be able to defend yourself effectively. You can't just buy the latest whiz bang uber gun and put it in a drawer, you need to practice practice practice.

    You need to really do some soul searching and decide if you could really kill someone. A gun is an absolute last resort only to be used if someone is trying to hurt or kill you or your loved ones. You will still have legal trouble in a totally justified shooting. You will be sued by the dirtbag's family in civil court and you may have issues if your local DA is anti-gun and wants to try to make an example of you. It's better than you or a family member being murdered, though.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the shotgun approach. Pistols and revolvers inside a house are deadly for the
    occupants as well as the intruder.

    The Mossberg Maverick Security 12ga would be great and priced very reasonably for less
    than $250.

    bob

    Try: GunsAmerica.com for pricing and purchasing (through a dealer) if you want to do it from home.
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Excellent comments clouise. If you are going to have or carry a gun either on your person, in your car, under your mattress, then you really do need to spend the few buks it takes to get properly trained, even the ex military folks. Take the concealed carry course, you owe it to yourself and your family! The course will tune you into local laws and all aspects of carrying a weapon as well as provide you with basic skills. My instructor was an ops guy from the army that had spend a fair amount of time in S.A. and Somalia and he showed me thing I would never have even thought of.

    I've been shooting since I was about 9 in the NRA program where I achieved the bar 9 award. I love to shoot and have shot all my life. A day at the range is more fun than to me anything other than fishing and the occasional exercises in domestic tranquility. My favorite close range weapon other than my 20 ga. defender was my superblackhawk 8" .44 mag double action. Unfortunately, the recoil from the .44 ended blowing out a bone/joint in my hand after a few thousand rounds so I can't shoot it anymore but it is a heck of a handgun once you learn to shoot it properly; nope, it is not a heck of a handgun, it is the coolest weapon I have ever owned and if you ever shoot even one round out of it, you will understand what Dirty Harry was talking about.

    A dog is as good as a gun in many respects. Not a little rat dog but a 50-60 pounder, I've got 4. With those dogs, I know if anyone is anywhere near well before they get to my door step or back door. By distinguishing between the dogs sounds, I can tell if they are unfamiliar with the person or not and if the person is creeping around or coming with purpose. I can see them alert on the slightest sound well before I hear it. Once you get used to the dog, you can use it as a 24/7early warning system. Also, if anyone has been in the yard or on the property, the dogs will alert to it and let you know. By decypering the barks, I can tell a lot about what they are picking up on. Intruders do not like a large dog much less a few large dogs.

    With urban tensions running high and well below where I suspect they will be in the near future, it is good to have a secure interior perimeter and the dogs will help to establish your outer perimeter. If there is an intruder inside of the walls of your home or reach inside of your car, in Texas, they are targets. The cc course was very clear about threatening anyone with a gun. If you pull it out, shoot them till they drop, it's a one-way trip, you do not threaten with a gun, you shoot...and yes, there will be legal consequences.

    The other side of the coin is that you must remain proficient and confident with your weapons. You must practice regularly with each one. You have to keep your ammo stocked and in good condition and you must keep your weapon clean, ready, and servicable and tucked away from the casual eye. Part of the drill is to pick your shooting points into your outer perimeter, know where you will be, how you will sight, and your fall back position as well as what is defensible and what isn't. You also have to control your rounds because once they leave your weapon, they are still your rounds and if they do some unintentional damage off of your property then they are still your rounds and you will be held accountable for them.

    My arsenal has been streamlined down over the years to a Baretta .25 bedroom gun with hps, a Baretta military issue .380 Cheetah car gun with hps with a thirteen round mag, and a mini-14 with a few 30 round mags for anything more serious and oh yeah, the 4 dogs. I don't keep any long range weaponry as I'm a believer that it is better to leave trouble if you can, evasion can be better than trying to maintain a distant position. Besides, I'm much better up close or hand to hand..."A man's got to know his limitations.". My wife sleeps very comfortably at night and my grand children haven't a care in the world...I see to it.

    If guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns. Talking about guns on a pm forum...yeah, it's appropriate.

    Gold is good.



  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    looks like one of everything should do the trick.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    <<No offense, but asking for gun advice on a coin forum is like asking for coin advice on a gun forum. If you want plenty of good gun info visit www.ar15.com. It's not just about AR15s, it is the largest and best gun owner's forum>>

    No offense taken. However, I did know that many folks here had a strong interest in firearms. My mission was accomplished. Besides friendly advise here, I received lots of PM's leading me to NRA instructors and concealed weapons courses. I've already spoken to a NRA trainer near me.

    <<You love your dog, that is obvious. I love mine. Alabama is a good deterent, but he too requires protection>>

    He's a she but Alabama is used to it by now ):

    Thanks again for all who took the time to reply to this thread or reached out to me via PM's.

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • erickso1erickso1 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭
    Since I missed this thread yesterday I'll chime in right quick.

    Grew up hunting did the natural progression of bb gun, pellet gun, 22lr (maybe a compound bow in for fun), hunter safety course, 20 ga, .270 deer rifle.

    I haven't been hunting in a while so I haven't had much need for the guns listed above. Within 2 months of moving to Austin (about 4 years ago), we had a 2 am visitor ring our doorbell and run off when the lights came one.

    I now have my 20ga Remington 870 jr magnum in house. I carry 3" buck shot in it and I have pulled the magazine plug to fit an extra shell.

    I like precious metals too. They are shiny. image
  • AMERICAN made,,,,,, real STEEL,,,,, not some piece of plastic crap

    Uh, okay, AR-15/M-16 Lower and upper receivers are aluminum, and the butt stock, pistol grip and hand guards are plastic, the only steel is the FCG, Bolt and Carrier, barrel and front sight?

    Racking a shotgun is not an effective way to scare off a burglar, please ask a cop what he thinks about this and be prepared to be laughed at. .380 automatics are notoriously prone to jamming and more difficult to shoot than larger guns in 9mm or even .45. Birdshot is for birds, not violent felons. It does not penetrate deep enough to incapacitate an assailant. The worst assumption is that you don't have to aim a shotgun.

    That is by far, the most ignorant firearm statement I have seen here! That is 100% opinion and no fact and your facts are wrong. Many posters here have been there and done that and by your post it is obvious you are a arm chair commando- ar15.com, LOL, seriously?
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great thread. MJ, there is a lot of good advice here, and if I were to distill it all down, I would say read TexasNationals threads and go from there. I have over 300 hours of training with one of the top firearms schools in the country, which covers both shooting and the law. No need for me to offer further advice since it is all here already. I will just add support to the training and practice aspect.... both are extremely important. Plus, shooting is a lot of fun. Cheers, RickO
  • Too much advise here, you'll need a trailer to carry the recommended equipment around.

    I would look at equipment only after receiving instruction first.

    Range rentals are a good way to check-out different pistols and see what fits so to speak.
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>MJ, I suggest you go gun shopping at a big store with wide variety. Find one that fits your hand & feels comfortable. Shooting a pistol should be as natural as pointing your finger. If you could find a gun shop with a indoor range they should have some you could tryout/rent. That way you can find a good fit. I like revolvers for reliability & easy cleaning. I have a Charter Arms 38 special off duty with Pachmayr Grip. Home defense I prefer my DDBL 12 gauge Savage Stevensimage >>




    ^ This is sound advice.


  • << <i>AMERICAN made,,,,,, real STEEL,,,,, not some piece of plastic crap

    Uh, okay, AR-15/M-16 Lower and upper receivers are aluminum, and the butt stock, pistol grip and hand guards are plastic, the only steel is the FCG, Bolt and Carrier, barrel and front sight?

    Racking a shotgun is not an effective way to scare off a burglar, please ask a cop what he thinks about this and be prepared to be laughed at. .380 automatics are notoriously prone to jamming and more difficult to shoot than larger guns in 9mm or even .45. Birdshot is for birds, not violent felons. It does not penetrate deep enough to incapacitate an assailant. The worst assumption is that you don't have to aim a shotgun.

    That is by far, the most ignorant firearm statement I have seen here! That is 100% opinion and no fact and your facts are wrong. Many posters here have been there and done that and by your post it is obvious you are a arm chair commando- ar15.com, LOL, seriously? >>



    What part of my above statement are you personally attacking me about? I refer you to the writings of current and past firearms experts and my own personal experience to defend each statement I made above. I won't make assumptions about you or make insults, just use facts.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The best way to avoid being burglarized or a victim of a robbery is to make it so stinking difficult that the idiot(s) will choose someone else. Take responsibility to make it tough for the sob.

    There is a gentleman in L.A. that I deal with who uses the philosophy that if anything bad happens involving his company ...he takes at least 50% of the responsibility for it because he didn't foresee the problem and move to take action before it happened. A very practical approach.

    Deterence is just as important if not more important than an arsenal. Why have to make a decision to have to kill someone and all that implies when you could have just taken measures to prevent the crime. A gun comes out...if you can get it out in time...., you shoot it, you kill someone----your life is changed in ways you couldn't fathom before the event. Residential property doesn't need to be a war zone. If you're in a war zone, move. The average joe(or jane) isn't up to pulling the trigger. And shouldn't have to be.

    You can argue this or that...this caliber or that....this method or that...ad infinitum. Ad nauseum.

    Deterence is easier. Just as effective in most cases. And much easier to live with.

    just my 2cents
    Have a nice day
  • There is no facts, that is the problem. .380 notorious for jamming? How so? They are just like any other auto whether 9mm, .45, 10mm, .32, .22LR or any other caliber. The guns quality dictates this, not the ammunition. If cops laugh at this, who do so many carry Ruger LCP's, Sig 238's, Glock 25's and Walther PPK's as back up duty guns? Seems to me if you were going to carry a back-up gun for emergencies you would want to have a firearm that was reliable, accurate and deadly! I own all 4 of the above alone with a Bersa .380, Beretta .380 and a Browning BDA .380 and get this, I have never had a failure not ammunition related, ever out of 50k rounds plus? Not have I in my M-11A1 Sub-Gun?? Next. how are they more difficult to shoot? Many are around the same size and sub-compact and compact 9mm's and the .380 has less recoil making it easier to shoot accurately and quicker follow up shots. Then Bird shot is for birds not felons is just straight out stupid. No. 7 1/2 shot in a 19" barrel shotgun provides a very tight and deadly pattern in house use. You don't use 00 buck shot or slugs in a house or apartment as it will go right through walls and kill your wife, kids, the police or your neighbor and it is WAY overkill to stop someone. At 9 feet as regular bird load will leave a 8 inch hole in a perp chest and stop his in his tracks, it doesn't have time to spread out. In combat in Iraq and Afg. many EOD techs and shotgunners (tank crew) use 7 1/2 or 9 shot to bust out locks on doors or to clear houses, not 00 buck unless they want private Rayn to get sprayed with .30 cal pellets. Not enough to stop a perp, good lord, have you ever shot a shotgun? Go get a pumpkin and a 7 1/2 light load AA shell, get back 7-10 feet, AIM (no one said he didn't) and see what happens to the pumpkin. 00 buck is only needed for 30 plus feet engagements, most engagements happen in 3-7 feet! Doesn't scare off perps, go ask a dude in jail who would up on the wrong side of a shotgun.

    Ar15.com is a bunch of gun show shopping, Navy SEALs wanna-be's who go buy a semi-auto Bushmaster AR-15, get a quad rail, EoTech 553, SureFire light and Beta-C drums, dress up their rifle to look like a M-4, take pictures and post it and talk about when it goes down man, I am gonna survive! Hey hommie check out my ZOMBIE engraved pistol grip for my ZOMBIE killer, lets go watch Platoon!

    Then the whole arrangement about M-16's jamming because they didn't issue cleaning kits and the use of all powder vs. stick powder being used and how the M-14 was a superior weapon and 5.56 not having enough stopping power although the 62 gr. SS-109 carries so much muzzle energy it basically causes and inertia explosion on penetration. But doesn't it tumble well the Russian 5.45x39.5 has a flat spot in the tip that makes it spoon causing nasty keyhole wounds that won't heal......................... Yeah, I get it.

    See my problem here is you are advising others on a very important, life or death issue and you are giving mis-information, not opinion, which is dangerous. This isn't like arguing whether a coin is a DD or not, it is a firearm for protection. Opinion is fine, just back it up with fact and if you don't know, Google it. You didn't refer me to anything, saying "I refer you" without references is no better that shooting out mis-information.
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i><<No offense, but asking for gun advice on a coin forum is like asking for coin advice on a gun forum. If you want plenty of good gun info visit www.ar15.com. It's not just about AR15s, it is the largest and best gun owner's forum>>

    No offense taken. However, I did know that many folks here had a strong interest in firearms. My mission was accomplished. Besides friendly advise here, I received lots of PM's leading me to NRA instructors and concealed weapons courses. I've already spoken to a NRA trainer near me.

    <<You love your dog, that is obvious. I love mine. Alabama is a good deterent, but he too requires protection>>

    He's a she but Alabama is used to it by now ):

    Thanks again for all who took the time to reply to this thread or reached out to me via PM's.

    MJ >>



    Not 'Alabama' from True Romance, by chance MJ??!
    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭
    I have a Mossberg Model 500 12Ga at home, along with a Ruger SP101 hammerless close at hand. It's a .357, but I keep it loaded with .38 Spl, which is plenty for the job.

    For concealed carry (I have a permit) I use a KelTec P3AT .380, which is small enough to take with me anywhere, even into coin shows.
    image
    (stock pic, not my gun)
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i><<No offense, but asking for gun advice on a coin forum is like asking for coin advice on a gun forum. If you want plenty of good gun info visit www.ar15.com. It's not just about AR15s, it is the largest and best gun owner's forum>>

    No offense taken. However, I did know that many folks here had a strong interest in firearms. My mission was accomplished. Besides friendly advise here, I received lots of PM's leading me to NRA instructors and concealed weapons courses. I've already spoken to a NRA trainer near me.

    <<You love your dog, that is obvious. I love mine. Alabama is a good deterent, but he too requires protection>>

    He's a she but Alabama is used to it by now ):

    Thanks again for all who took the time to reply to this thread or reached out to me via PM's.

    MJ >>



    Not 'Alabama' from True Romance, by chance MJ??! >>



    Bingo my friend.........

    Amid the chaos of that day, when all I could hear was the thunder of gunshots, and all I could smell was the violence in the air, I look back and am amazed that my thoughts were so clear and true, that three words went through my mind endlessly, repeating themselves like a broken record: you're so cool, you're so cool, you're so cool. And sometimes Clarence asks me what I would have done if he had died, if that bullet had been two inches more to the left. To this, I always smile, as if I'm not going to satisfy him with a response. But I always do. I tell him of how I would want to die, but that the anguish and the want of death would fade like the stars at dawn, and that things would be much as they are now. Perhaps. Except maybe I wouldn't have named our son Elvis.

    MJ

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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