<< <i>My 2 '79 packs yielded a few very nice commons and a couple decent stars. The 3 '76 pack however were a major let down. The only decent cards were the "wax" cards on the bottom, all three had sharp corners a good centering and of course wax stains on the back. The rest had corner issues (some with major issues) and centering was all over the place. I've never seen cards in the middle of packs have corner issues like a few of these had. I'll scan the worst and post later tonight. >>
Here are the three wax cards...
and here are the three worst... check out those corners!!!
My 76 pack had the same problem. Inconsistent centering and the corners were pretty rough too and not consistent throughout the pack. I've never opened wax this old before so just figured the packs were made a bit looser so the cards moved around more.
Pulled an Newsome RC from the 79's and nothing major in the 76's. OC 79 Riggins, Largent, that's about it. Maybe a 7 on the Newsome RC due to centering, print defects.
I'd recommend you do not open the '76 packs if you got them. I just opened 4 packs. Only three commons would grade NM out of the lot. Corner and edge damage on almost every other single card. No HOF'ers were pulled.
I pulled a handful of HOF'ers from the '79 packs, but no major rookies. Centering was all over the place from great on some cards to 90/10 on others. I'll try and post some scans later.
I agree, if your pack is tight enough keep sealed..My pack was so loose i had no choice but to open, i got all commons and no gloss and chipped corners..not good at all..luckely i only purchased 1 76 pack
i got a 79 rack also and got a nice Franco Harris and Ray Guy if anyone gets a 1979 #1 LL card i will trade both for it. The packs of 1976 were already loose before packaging because they had my cards tightly sealed and they didn't move around during shipping!!
I bought 2 Packs of 76. My plan was to keep one sealed. The one I opened I got 3 checklists and 7 other nm at best commons. I have terrible luck with wax so I'm not suggesting my pack was tampered with... Its pretty standard for me to get a pack full of commons. The condition though is a bit concerning. I've never opened packs older than 80 so wasn't really sure what to expect. If people think the packs might be bad I can scan mine so you guys can. Check them out.
I'm not saying these were tampered with, just sharing some information about my packs as was requested. Here are some scans of my '76s. It may be hard to tell how soft some of these corners are from the scans. The packs themselves were loose, but I don't remember any signs of wear or tears on them. The cards inside appear to be abused though as out of four packs not a single card would be considered NM/MT and several would actually be VG-EX - EX. These are easily the worst condition cards I've ever pulled from a pack. Every piece of gum was broken, but the pieces all matched up together to a full size piece of gum.
I agree, I'd sugget the OP let Steve know of the questionable 76's and everyone who purchased refrain from opening them for a likely return. I know he let us keep the 1980 Baseball but due to the high price of this I don't see that happening. I say that because I'm sure he'll want to look at every one of them to see how they got by. For the new members,I've purchased a few thousand with Steve and have no doubt he's the best at what he does. He's helped me on eBay with a 1975 Baseball cello box that wasn't even his and I have a few 72 FB packs with stars on the front(Unfortunately I opened the Csonka). I've also pulled my fair share of Mint and Gem Mint cards from 70's rips. This will be tough on him because it's an expensive one that got by........
Got my pack today, I am not opening it, nor was I intending to open it, but its very loose on the back, and unfortunately 3 of the 4 corners have small tears in them, indicative of the gum sliding in the pack. I am surprised at how loose the pack I have is, I have never seen anything like it.
With chance of catching crap since I only bought the 79's, I'll toss in my sideline view (as if anyone cares). I'm certainly not the expert in this, but could it be that this particular box had a rough 35 year life up to this point? It could haven been through multiple dealers, packed and unpacked, moved/shook/dropped and who knows what all in 35 years (example-gum broken up, but all pieces matching up). Just reading this and seeing the assertions of tampering before a lot of members got their packs seems a bit premature to me. If the packs are certified from Steve as unopened then I tend to believe that. Of course, I recognize that there will occasionally be something that gets by. But, just because some cards had some corners damaged because of a (possibly) rough life, and there were no stars pulled yet, doesn't indicate tampering to me.
I don't know....I guess it just seemed to me that people are a bit trigger happy to start throwing the "tampered" tag around with all of the uneasiness of buying legitimate stuff off Ebay and elsewhere.
I'm not attempting to argue with the results that people are getting, just show a viewpoint that I'm having from following this thread. I'll go back to the sidelines now....
Rodney
<< <i>I'm not saying these were tampered with, just sharing some information about my packs as was requested. Here are some scans of my '76s. It may be hard to tell how soft some of these corners are from the scans. The packs themselves were loose, but I don't remember any signs of wear or tears on them. The cards inside appear to be abused though as out of four packs not a single card would be considered NM/MT and several would actually be VG-EX - EX. These are easily the worst condition cards I've ever pulled from a pack. Every piece of gum was broken, but the pieces all matched up together to a full size piece of gum. >>
<< <i>With chance of catching crap since I only bought the 79's, I'll toss in my sideline view (as if anyone cares). I'm certainly not the expert in this, but could it be that this particular box had a rough 35 year life up to this point? It could haven been through multiple dealers, packed and unpacked, moved/shook/dropped and who knows what all in 35 years (example-gum broken up, but all pieces matching up). Just reading this and seeing the assertions of tampering before a lot of members got their packs seems a bit premature to me. If the packs are certified from Steve as unopened then I tend to believe that. Of course, I recognize that there will occasionally be something that gets by. But, just because some cards had some corners damaged because of a (possibly) rough life, and there were no stars pulled yet, doesn't indicate tampering to me.
I don't know....I guess it just seemed to me that people are a bit trigger happy to start throwing the "tampered" tag around with all of the uneasiness of buying legitimate stuff off Ebay and elsewhere.
I'm not attempting to argue with the results that people are getting, just show a viewpoint that I'm having from following this thread. I'll go back to the sidelines now....
Rodney
<< <i>I'm not saying these were tampered with, just sharing some information about my packs as was requested. Here are some scans of my '76s. It may be hard to tell how soft some of these corners are from the scans. The packs themselves were loose, but I don't remember any signs of wear or tears on them. The cards inside appear to be abused though as out of four packs not a single card would be considered NM/MT and several would actually be VG-EX - EX. These are easily the worst condition cards I've ever pulled from a pack. Every piece of gum was broken, but the pieces all matched up together to a full size piece of gum. >>
>>
Rodney - Not sure what you are insinuating. Did you even read the first sentence of my post? I was very careful to state that I was not claiming that the packs were tampered with. Perhaps they did have a rough life. In case if you didn't buy any of the packs and have no first hand knowledge of the packs perhaps you should refrain from saying anything at all. Just a thought.
Yes, I clearly understood your post and did indeed read it (including the first sentence). My thoughts were not directed to you individually, but to the last day or so of posts in general. I wasn't really insinuating anything other than the tamper word has come up in multiple posts and it was my view that people are quick to start thinking about that once a pack doesn't yield grade worthy cards. And that behavior comes justified as the unopened market is flooded with the bad stuff. I mentioned that I only bought 79s so you are correct that I don't have first hand knowledge. Please understand-I'm not arguing that these packs are/are not tampered with. I was making a general observation to the fact of how weary us collectors have become to whether a pack is legitimate or not.
For some reason it was visible to me how weary some folks are about opening these packs and worrying about if they are legit.
Also, you are probably correct in that I should refrain from saying anything. I just had one of those uncontrollable urges to put in my .02. Some times it's harder to put a thought into verbage than one would think.
Rodney
<< <i> Rodney - Not sure what you are insinuating. Did you even read the first sentence of my post? I was very careful to state that I was not claiming that the packs were tampered with. Perhaps they did have a rough life. In case if you didn't buy any of the packs and have no first hand knowledge of the packs perhaps you should refrain from saying anything at all. Just a thought. >>
The 79's you scanned look exactly like what I got. I've opened a lot of 79's the last two years and this looks pretty typical. Some of them are way off center, and then a few cards later will be something that will grade a 10. I guess like most 70's stuff, it's hit/miss and hope for something really good. I pulled only a few cards that may hit a 9 on these packs, but last week opened a few packs that were wonderfully centered and grade worthy.
Cards from the pack i opened. the one that is backwards was the wax stain card. the card was where is should have been in the pack.
here is the one card with the worst corner
There is also some weird surface wrinkles on one of the check list. I don't remember the order of the cards though so this could have been the gum card
i'm no expert so i'll leave it up to some of the more knowledgeable board members to make a call. I don't buy wax on ebay and only buy from bbce... and it still will be the only place i buy wax from regardless what happens with these packs.
The '76 scans I posted earlier are really too small to be of much use. Here are some larger, higher resolution scans which better show the corner and edge wear:
Wow- pretty obvious in my humble opinion that one got by them.
** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
I won't be humble about it I'd still like to see more scans from different members but from the first pack that was posted(which the member didn't shoot the flare), the wear is too inconsistent throughout the pack. I understand damage to a pack happens but when the member scans three cards with sharp corners and 5 cards with 4 "worn" corners, I'm skeptical. Once again, this is coming from a member that has been nothing but happy with BBCE and will probably spend another 3K with them the next 6 months.
Hello! I have been alerted to this thread by a few members, so I just got done reading it.
Here is what we are giong to do. I want everyone to keep the 1976 football packs for free. I will issue everyone a credit for $50.00 per pack towards a future group rip, towards a website order credit, or a full refund of $50.00 (paypal or credit card, whatever was used to purchase the pack). Please let me know your choice through regular e-mail to me.
Estang...since you just paid yesterday, I will ship you a pack not from the group rip box, but from a full box we opened to sell packs of recently. These packs are 100% checked for authenticity.
I have looked at the posts and I dont like what I see with the condition of some of the cards. My only explanation could be that I bought this box from someone who still had it in my shrinkwrap and my business card. However, this was what we did many years ago (I used to just put one of my business cards on the bottom of the box under my shrinkwrap). Now for the last several years I have used a 3x5 sticker that looks like my business card that is stuck to the bottom of the shrinkwrap. Someone could still go through the trouble of having this sticker reproduced and having a box reshrunk. However many years ago, all it took was a business card of mine and any old shrinkwrap machine. So when all you guys decided to group rip this box, I just handed it to one of my employees to ship, assuming it was a 100% good box without having to check it again. This is the only explanation I have...however, it is no excuse....so this is why everyone will get a full refund on them.
Also, if you have ever met us at a National Convention, you have probably met my employee Rick. He is the brains behind alot of things that make this company run smoothly. He is working on an idea of what else we can do to the bottom of our shrinkwrapped boxes to deter any type of switch-a-roo that we knew someone would try some day.
Thanks again to everyone and just contact me about your packs! Steve Hart
The previous post is why Steve is the best in the business...I was wondering why the shrinkwrapped boxes now have stickers on back instead of the loose business card behind the cello wrap, and now I know why--definitely would be very easy to take a business card and shrinkwrap a box and pretend it's sealed by BBCE. The stickers work a lot better to potentially prevent that..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I find Steve's actions to be absolutely incredible. I personally don't think Steve needs to do this, but it speaks volumes to the morals of Steve, and is absolutely why i will not purchase wax from anyone other than Steve/BBCE.
** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
Steve --- All I can say is thank you. Your reputation is stellar on these boards & the gesture is most appreciated. You've just turned a first time buyer of your product into a lifetime customer. WELL PLAYED SIR!
Wow. Thanks steve! I still got the thrill of opening a 35 year old pack. Now I get to free roll another rip. 86 fleer bk or 79 opc hockey anyone? Well wouldn't be a complete free roll.
Wow, what a decision by Steve! I've thought about the way the boxes are authenticated and wondered whether or not the sticker was on the inside or outside. With GAI essentially finished as far as grading full boxes and PSA not going the route......maybe this is what the hobby needs. Sure, it's ironic that I'm bringing it up after this 76 box but look at the way BBCE stands behind their product. I don't know many people that would make it right on an $1800 box so quickly. I suppose I only have two questions, will Steve authenticate boxes for a fee and when is the next group rip!?
<< <i>He is working on an idea of what else we can do to the bottom of our shrinkwrapped boxes to deter any type of switch-a-roo that we knew someone would try some day. >>
I thought about this when the new member posted the 75 Minis. Obviously I believe his are legit as I'm on the list. I was just curious as I've never purchased a full box from Steve.
I'm not involved in this rip but it's great to know that they are a class act and I've heard nothing but good things about Steve and the rest of BBCE which is VERY refreshing in this hobby!!
Vintage Football Collector and Dolphins fan. First Cards ever collected - 1978 Topps Football. Working on a collection of the Top Ten FB Cards of each year from 1957-1987.
Sorry you guys got a bad box. The condition was similar to the '80 Baseball box we broke earlier this year. Fortunately the person who tampered with it was too lazy to put NM cards in there. Without the VG cards, it would have been difficult to tell it wasn't right.
Comments
<< <i>My 2 '79 packs yielded a few very nice commons and a couple decent stars. The 3 '76 pack however were a major let down. The only decent cards were the "wax" cards on the bottom, all three had sharp corners a good centering and of course wax stains on the back. The rest had corner issues (some with major issues) and centering was all over the place. I've never seen cards in the middle of packs have corner issues like a few of these had. I'll scan the worst and post later tonight. >>
Here are the three wax cards...
and here are the three worst... check out those corners!!!
<< <i>Those corners are scary! >>
Agreed. Not something you'd expect.
The wax cards look great.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>Yuhhh oh, hopefully it's the looseness in the wax that caused that. Otherwise.... >>
Morning,
Woah !!!! Lets see a few more packs before we go there !!!! All it takes is a couple PSA 9 Worthy Stars and that train of thought is finished!!!
YeeHah
Neil
Put up some scans of the 79 Commons please. Any of them GEM 10 Worthy ???
Neil
I pulled a handful of HOF'ers from the '79 packs, but no major rookies. Centering was all over the place from great on some cards to 90/10 on others. I'll try and post some scans later.
Rodney
Erik
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>The one group rip I decide to get involved in & it looks like the 1976 box is tampered with... >>
Let's hope not, we'll need more scans!
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
I don't know....I guess it just seemed to me that people are a bit trigger happy to start throwing the "tampered" tag around with all of the uneasiness of buying legitimate stuff off Ebay and elsewhere.
I'm not attempting to argue with the results that people are getting, just show a viewpoint that I'm having from following this thread. I'll go back to the sidelines now....
Rodney
<< <i>I'm not saying these were tampered with, just sharing some information about my packs as was requested. Here are some scans of my '76s. It may be hard to tell how soft some of these corners are from the scans. The packs themselves were loose, but I don't remember any signs of wear or tears on them. The cards inside appear to be abused though as out of four packs not a single card would be considered NM/MT and several would actually be VG-EX - EX. These are easily the worst condition cards I've ever pulled from a pack. Every piece of gum was broken, but the pieces all matched up together to a full size piece of gum.
>>
<< <i>With chance of catching crap since I only bought the 79's, I'll toss in my sideline view (as if anyone cares). I'm certainly not the expert in this, but could it be that this particular box had a rough 35 year life up to this point? It could haven been through multiple dealers, packed and unpacked, moved/shook/dropped and who knows what all in 35 years (example-gum broken up, but all pieces matching up). Just reading this and seeing the assertions of tampering before a lot of members got their packs seems a bit premature to me. If the packs are certified from Steve as unopened then I tend to believe that. Of course, I recognize that there will occasionally be something that gets by. But, just because some cards had some corners damaged because of a (possibly) rough life, and there were no stars pulled yet, doesn't indicate tampering to me.
I don't know....I guess it just seemed to me that people are a bit trigger happy to start throwing the "tampered" tag around with all of the uneasiness of buying legitimate stuff off Ebay and elsewhere.
I'm not attempting to argue with the results that people are getting, just show a viewpoint that I'm having from following this thread. I'll go back to the sidelines now....
Rodney
<< <i>I'm not saying these were tampered with, just sharing some information about my packs as was requested. Here are some scans of my '76s. It may be hard to tell how soft some of these corners are from the scans. The packs themselves were loose, but I don't remember any signs of wear or tears on them. The cards inside appear to be abused though as out of four packs not a single card would be considered NM/MT and several would actually be VG-EX - EX. These are easily the worst condition cards I've ever pulled from a pack. Every piece of gum was broken, but the pieces all matched up together to a full size piece of gum.
>>
>>
Rodney - Not sure what you are insinuating. Did you even read the first sentence of my post? I was very careful to state that I was not claiming that the packs were tampered with. Perhaps they did have a rough life. In case if you didn't buy any of the packs and have no first hand knowledge of the packs perhaps you should refrain from saying anything at all. Just a thought.
Yes, I clearly understood your post and did indeed read it (including the first sentence). My thoughts were not directed to you individually, but to the last day or so of posts in general. I wasn't really insinuating anything other than the tamper word has come up in multiple posts and it was my view that people are quick to start thinking about that once a pack doesn't yield grade worthy cards. And that behavior comes justified as the unopened market is flooded with the bad stuff. I mentioned that I only bought 79s so you are correct that I don't have first hand knowledge. Please understand-I'm not arguing that these packs are/are not tampered with. I was making a general observation to the fact of how weary us collectors have become to whether a pack is legitimate or not.
For some reason it was visible to me how weary some folks are about opening these packs and worrying about if they are legit.
Also, you are probably correct in that I should refrain from saying anything. I just had one of those uncontrollable urges to put in my .02. Some times it's harder to put a thought into verbage than one would think.
Rodney
<< <i>
Rodney - Not sure what you are insinuating. Did you even read the first sentence of my post? I was very careful to state that I was not claiming that the packs were tampered with. Perhaps they did have a rough life. In case if you didn't buy any of the packs and have no first hand knowledge of the packs perhaps you should refrain from saying anything at all. Just a thought. >>
Rodney
pack i kept sealed
Cards from the pack i opened. the one that is backwards was the wax stain card. the card was where is should have been in the pack.
here is the one card with the worst corner
There is also some weird surface wrinkles on one of the check list. I don't remember the order of the cards though so this could have been the gum card
i'm no expert so i'll leave it up to some of the more knowledgeable board members to make a call. I don't buy wax on ebay and only buy from bbce... and it still will be the only place i buy wax from regardless what happens with these packs.
I have been alerted to this thread by a few members, so I just got done reading it.
Here is what we are giong to do. I want everyone to keep the 1976 football packs for free. I will issue everyone a credit for $50.00 per pack towards a future group rip, towards a website order credit, or a full refund of $50.00 (paypal or credit card, whatever was used to purchase the pack). Please let me know your choice through regular e-mail to me.
Estang...since you just paid yesterday, I will ship you a pack not from the group rip box, but from a full box we opened to sell packs of recently. These packs are 100% checked for authenticity.
I have looked at the posts and I dont like what I see with the condition of some of the cards. My only explanation could be that I bought this box from someone who still had it in my shrinkwrap and my business card. However, this was what we did many years ago (I used to just put one of my business cards on the bottom of the box under my shrinkwrap). Now for the last several years I have used a 3x5 sticker that looks like my business card that is stuck to the bottom of the shrinkwrap. Someone could still go through the trouble of having this sticker reproduced and having a box reshrunk. However many years ago, all it took was a business card of mine and any old shrinkwrap machine. So when all you guys decided to group rip this box, I just handed it to one of my employees to ship, assuming it was a 100% good box without having to check it again. This is the only explanation I have...however, it is no excuse....so this is why everyone will get a full refund on them.
Also, if you have ever met us at a National Convention, you have probably met my employee Rick. He is the brains behind alot of things that make this company run smoothly. He is working on an idea of what else we can do to the bottom of our shrinkwrapped boxes to deter any type of switch-a-roo that we knew someone would try some day.
Thanks again to everyone and just contact me about your packs! Steve Hart
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Erik
<< <i>He is working on an idea of what else we can do to the bottom of our shrinkwrapped boxes to deter any type of switch-a-roo that we knew someone would try some day. >>
I thought about this when the new member posted the 75 Minis. Obviously I believe his are legit as I'm on the list. I was just curious as I've never purchased a full box from Steve.
"Molon Labe"
Paul
First Cards ever collected - 1978 Topps Football.
Working on a collection of the Top Ten FB Cards of each year from 1957-1987.