Wholeheartedly agree w/Robert. I've seen a number of southern and early gold coins in both PCGS and NGC holders that had the cloudy/milky-surface characteristics of having been puttied. There's a PCGS MS-61 1859-C $1 that is/or was sitting in a major dealer's inventory for awhile that displays strong evidence of puttying.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
To the newer / gold collectors, please consider what I mentioned... "I would not make ANY judgments based on a pic, ever."
...and what PonyExpress8 stated even clearer... You cannot see putty without rotating the coin under certain lighting conditions. Certainly not from a photo. If you are buying coins from online photos without seeing the coin in hand, Caveat Emptor!
Many collectors do not realize the extent of the problem.
Wow. Very informative. Stuff like this has potential to KILL the meaning of "investment coins", and by extention the mid and high end of the hobby. I wholeheartedly support the efforts of the top TPGs to refine and improve their fraud detection techniques. I really hate earning a "genuine" label on something I sent in, but it's necessary to preserve the integrity of the label. Thanks for the info!
Most of the puttied certified gold coins dip out just fine in my experience, but no one wants to take the chance on those as far as what I have seen. Though have had 3X windfalls by doing so, all I can think is the puttiers were just playing tricks.
No doubt I've had some puttied gold come through my hands, especially from Ebay. I recall a few coins with white , chalky deposits on them.
The only puttied coin I've "once owned" that has a "history" was a MS64 1856-0 quarter. The coin was a very high end, colorful near gem. I tried it 4X raw for a MS65 grade...getting MS64 each time. Owned it for 4-6 years. Probably the prettiest of that date I had seen. I sold it around 2006-2008. The coin was sold at a major show where the buyer took it into the bathroom, dipped it, then puttied it. On a subsequent regrade it went MS65. Another beautiful, better date, gem seated quarter ruined. Had I known that was going to be its fate, I would have found another buyer.
I agree--and the link to NJcoincrank was also helpful. Having taken the advanced grading class, I would have taken a stab at opining in that thread, as he suggested, had I seen it. And I would have been wrong. Gold is tough, something that I am now learning as a relatively seasoned collector.
It is my understanding the putty job only holds up for so long. Then the stuff underneath the fake gold color comes to the surface and the coin looks horrible.
A puttied gold coin is not necessarily ruined. The stuff can removed without harming the gold, and if the coin underneath is gradable, and can get a clean number, taking the marks that were covered into account.
I must say that I have been lucky. Out of the many gold coins that I put in my collection, none of them have ever turned on me because of putty. A few that I've had for 30 + years have gotten a bit more coppery toning, but that's been it.
Here is a puttied coin that I've had in my "virtual set" for quite a while.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
That coin would probably dip out ok Bill. Gold is pretty inert and whatever is in the putty rarely reacts. Either acetone or xylene would probably do the trick.
What a nightmare to have one turn like that 1908D $10.
It reminds me of USGTC I received in the old TTR no picture days and I sent it back but had to pay restocking. Did not know really what it was but that it looked awful.
i had one like bill jones has...same date, grade, holder, etc. i send it to pcgs back in the day when you could send a coin in and put "puttied" on the submission form. they would take the coin out and dip it, reholder it and send it back. mine came back all nice and shiny and the same grade...i sold it.
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cheers,
'dude
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
To the newer / gold collectors, please consider what I mentioned...
"I would not make ANY judgments based on a pic, ever."
...and what PonyExpress8 stated even clearer...
You cannot see putty without rotating the coin under certain lighting conditions. Certainly not from a photo. If you are buying coins from online photos without seeing the coin in hand, Caveat Emptor!
Many collectors do not realize the extent of the problem.
RYK, what became of your $10 OGH with purplish toning?
<< <i>Informative thread.
RYK, what became of your $10 OGH with purplish toning? >>
I do not recall to which coin you are referring.
Great read, for anyone interested in the topic.
Old thread that I just ran across while looking for putty threads.
Was this about the coin in this thread, PCGS 9936654? It's a $10 OGH with purplish toning and thoughts of putty but it was not RYK's.
Most of the puttied certified gold coins dip out just fine in my experience, but no one wants to take the chance on those as far as what I have seen. Though have had 3X windfalls by doing so, all I can think is the puttiers were just playing tricks.
No doubt I've had some puttied gold come through my hands, especially from Ebay. I recall a few coins with white , chalky deposits on them.
The only puttied coin I've "once owned" that has a "history" was a MS64 1856-0 quarter. The coin was a very high end, colorful near gem. I tried it 4X raw for a MS65 grade...getting MS64 each time. Owned it for 4-6 years. Probably the prettiest of that date I had seen. I sold it around 2006-2008. The coin was sold at a major show where the buyer took it into the bathroom, dipped it, then puttied it. On a subsequent regrade it went MS65. Another beautiful, better date, gem seated quarter ruined. Had I known that was going to be its fate, I would have found another buyer.
Good to see this thread again... very informative even if the pictures (most) have been lost... Cheers, RickO
I agree--and the link to NJcoincrank was also helpful. Having taken the advanced grading class, I would have taken a stab at opining in that thread, as he suggested, had I seen it. And I would have been wrong. Gold is tough, something that I am now learning as a relatively seasoned collector.
Tom
It is my understanding the putty job only holds up for so long. Then the stuff underneath the fake gold color comes to the surface and the coin looks horrible.
A puttied gold coin is not necessarily ruined. The stuff can removed without harming the gold, and if the coin underneath is gradable, and can get a clean number, taking the marks that were covered into account.
I must say that I have been lucky. Out of the many gold coins that I put in my collection, none of them have ever turned on me because of putty. A few that I've had for 30 + years have gotten a bit more coppery toning, but that's been it.
Here is a puttied coin that I've had in my "virtual set" for quite a while.
That coin would probably dip out ok Bill. Gold is pretty inert and whatever is in the putty rarely reacts. Either acetone or xylene would probably do the trick.
Would love to see a before and after.
What a nightmare to have one turn like that 1908D $10.
It reminds me of USGTC I received in the old TTR no picture days and I sent it back but had to pay restocking. Did not know really what it was but that it looked awful.
thanks for the pics, Bill. I've never seen a puttied coin that's "turned."
Interesting pictures Bill.... are you considering dipping? Or just content to leave as is? Cheers, RickO
i had one like bill jones has...same date, grade, holder, etc. i send it to pcgs back in the day when you could send a coin in and put "puttied" on the submission form. they would take the coin out and dip it, reholder it and send it back. mine came back all nice and shiny and the same grade...i sold it.