<<As to the failure of the Susan B. Anthony dollar in 1979, one of the several reasons for its failure was that the Mint originally intended the coin to have eleven flat sides to it to make it more distinctive, but the American vending machine industry successfully got this feature eliminated in favor of a round, reeded edge by claiming that the eleven-sided format would not work in vending machines. The only part of the format that survived was the eleven-sided inner edge of the rims, which were designed to match the flat spots on the edge.>>
Today, I am amazed at the number of non-collectors who believe and are positive that the SBA dollar did have 11 sides. Well, maybe they don't remember the exact number of supposed sides.
Great information everyone! Thanks for the photos and scans Tom and illini420. Those are really useful.
The reverse eagle in Tom's photos looks stronger and bolder than the one from Krause. I like how the wings extend out into the United States of America text more.
I also think that 1977-S Ike decagon is way too cool. That would be one cool piece to have.
The photos showing Gasparro at work also add a human touch to his work which I haven't seen with many other designers / engravers.
<< <i>FYI, the coin is pictured on the cover of the October 1976 copy of Coinage... for everyone that has a copy still lying around
It looks like a plaster model actually and not a coin that is on the cover. The article inside is pretty neat though as it talks about them experimenting with Ike dollars with 10-sides and the striking of other designs and blanks on 8-sided, 10-sided, 11-sided and 13-sided planchets. It also talks about testing six different metallic compositions.
The article says that Gasparro thought of the design used on this new dollar as the highlight of his career. Too bad it never made it to circulation.
The article also says he began work on the design in 1967 for the half dollar. Thinking that it could be used for a commemorative coin. That seems to go against those saying that he created the design for the ANA medal. >>
Read through the copy you sent me. Thanks.
The 1967 reference was to the reverse design only.
TD >>
The reference to the 1967 work for a half dollar, as mentioned above, is at the end of P. 55 and is specifically referring to the reverse design only.
The reference to the obverse design, at the top of P. 56, is vague as to the year and intent and may refer to the work on the ANA medal.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
For those who are interested and have not received the PDF copy yet, here are the two passages being discussed:
Reverse discussion on pages 55-56:
<< <i>Gasparro's concept for the reverse design of the soaring eagle is almost a decade old. "I began working on it in 1967 for the half dollar," he explained, exhibiting sketches for what he "thought would be a commemorative coin." >>
Obverse discussion on page 56:
<< <i>Gasparro's rendition efforts began in late 1967 or early 1968 and utilize a flowing haired Liberty facing left. The preliminary results were incorporated by the U.S. Mint's chief engraver into the 1969 American Numismatic Association's 78th anniversary convention. >>
It would help to know when the ANA approached Gasparro regarding the 1969 medal.
I think the hat on the pole truly detracts from the coin design, but remove that and it would be in the top 3 of American Coin designs. (In my opinion, anyway).
<< <i>For those who are interested and have not received the PDF copy yet, here are the two passages being discussed:
Reverse discussion on pages 55-56:
<< <i>Gasparro's concept for the reverse design of the soaring eagle is almost a decade old. "I began working on it in 1967 for the half dollar," he explained, exhibiting sketches for what he "thought would be a commemorative coin." >>
>>
Exactly.
As an aside, Gasparro's comments about the soaring eagle reverse design are confusing. Surely in 1967 he did not think that the Mint would be replacing the Kennedy half dollar, with his own reverse design, that soon, and the official Treasury Dept. position was that commemorative coins were dead, dead, dead.
I understand that many engravers over the years have worked on a pet project that they had ready when a coin design was needed (like John Sinnock's Franklin Head/ Liberty Bell concept), and this soaring eagle may have been Gasparro's pet project However, his suggestion that it was intended for a half dollar or a commemorative does not seem to make sense.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>For those who are interested and have not received the PDF copy yet, here are the two passages being discussed:
Reverse discussion on pages 55-56:
<< <i>Gasparro's concept for the reverse design of the soaring eagle is almost a decade old. "I began working on it in 1967 for the half dollar," he explained, exhibiting sketches for what he "thought would be a commemorative coin." >>
>>
Exactly.
As an aside, Gasparro's comments about the soaring eagle reverse design are confusing. Surely in 1967 he did not think that the Mint would be replacing the Kennedy half dollar, with his own reverse design, that soon, and the official Treasury Dept. position was that commemorative coins were dead, dead, dead.
I understand that many engravers over the years have worked on a pet project that they had ready when a coin design was needed (like John Sinnock's Franklin Head/ Liberty Bell concept), and this soaring eagle may have been Gasparro's pet project However, his suggestion that it was intended for a half dollar or a commemorative does not seem to make sense. >>
I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense. Gasparro was working at the Mint so he had more information from both official and unofficial discussions than people have from the outside. Certainly the bi-centennial commemorative coins in 1975 and 1976 (as well as the Ike dollar in 1971, not to mention the Peace Dollar in 1964) were not too far away from 1967/68 when Gasparro started working on the obverse and reverse designs. It seems plausible that there could have been discussions on new coins and commemoratives at the Mint as early as the mid to late 60s.
The Treasury fought against Bicentennial coin designs well into 1973. All they wanted to do was use a dual date, 1776-1976, on all six denominations in 1976.
IIRC, when the Peace dollar was shot down in 1965, there was a restriction imposed that no dollar coin of any sort could be coined for five years. Does anybody have this reference?
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>The Treasury fought against Bicentennial coin designs well into 1973. All they wanted to do was use a dual date, 1776-1976, on all six denominations in 1976.
IIRC, when the Peace dollar was shot down in 1965, there was a restriction imposed that no dollar coin of any sort could be coined for five years. Does anybody have this reference?
TD >>
Regardless of whether any coins or designs were approved, the fact there was a discussion and a "fight" means other opinions were being expressed.
For the bi-centennials, it is plausible the people campaigning for different bi-centennial designs were already coming up with ideas before the Treasury changed their mind 1973. Is there any material to support this?
For the dollar, if there was a restriction for five years after 1965, it seems there could be interest to start preparing designs ahead of time in anticipation of future release of the restriction.
There's nothing wrong with a little optimism and planning ahead.
<<IIRC, when the Peace dollar was shot down in 1965, there was a restriction imposed that no dollar coin of any sort could be coined for five years. Does anybody have this reference?>>
Coinage Act of 1965, Title I Section 101 (c) July 23, 1965 "No standard silver dollars may be minted during the five year period which begins on the date of enactment of this Act."
Note, it does not prohibit non-standard dollar coins.
i kinda remember the design when they were doing that one. i vagely remember that no one liked the reverse. then again that was many years ago and my memorey (whats left of it) isint quite true
Anyone pick up one of Jared Grove's 40th Anniversary tributes? There were 750 Cu-Ni and 250 .999 silver struck. Also, anyone know who did the engraving on this? Apparently, Jared still uses full size plasters.
IMHO, Gasparro was exceptionally untalented. However, that does put him firmly in the middle ranks of most of the U.S.Mint's Chief Engravers. None of his American coin designs that made it to production are anything special and his Lincoln Memorial was a travesty. This Liberty thing only looks kinda good in comparison to the Susan B. Anthony Dollar. Not a good sketcher, not good at design layout, not a good artist. People who are enthusiastic about this stuff are simply kidding themselves. America could have had much better.
@BillDugan1959 said:
Not a good sketcher, not good at design layout, not a good artist. People who are enthusiastic about this stuff are simply kidding themselves.
Some people really like this design and many US coin designs have differing opinions on the artistic merits.
For those not crazy about the design, consider there's enthusiasm due to history and enthusiasm due to art. I have no problem with the former or the latter. Many modern and classic US coins have uninspired designs in my opinion but can still be valued from a historical perspective. I find the historical aspect fascinating.
I believe in collecting coins as historic artifacts, but "coins as history" is a funny thing. Coins add the most to our understanding of history when the historical record is sketchy or incomplete. There are only about a kabillion better ways to learn about the history of the 1960s or 1970s than to look at our nation's coinage or proposed coins.
In modern times, a nice historic coin that tickles your fancy should stimulate you to better read the historic record, learn foreign languages, learn geography, economics, etc. The coin itself is at best incomplete unless it adds to your curiosity.
This is an interesting, and informative, thread. I do like the design and would prefer it over the SBA. I imagine we are getting close to eliminating the dollar bill.... that will release the flood of dollar coins now stored in vaults. Which means, we will be stuck with uglies for many years to come. Cheers, RickO
Having said that, am I the only one who thinks it's a terrible design? It's still better than the SBA, though, IMO.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The Treasury Dept maintains copyright of creative designs made by employees and outside contractors. This got much tighter after the Frank Sinatra medal problem.
IN 1979 the Mint reviewed several "golden" color materials for the small dollar, but the vending machine industry objected, even thought most of their machines wouldn't take the small dollar anyway.
In 1964-65 and 1976-79 vending machine interests controlled the primary "citizen" advisory groups to the Mint. The various clad and alloy materials for coins had to meet with their approval - and no one else's. (The illogical size of the Anthony dollar was dictated to Mint by the same industry -- because it would fit in existing mechanisms, and required only replacement of a cheap external coin slot plate.
@RogerB said:
The Treasury Dept maintains copyright of creative designs made by employees and outside contractors. This got much tighter after the Frank Sinatra medal problem.
IN 1979 the Mint reviewed several "golden" color materials for the small dollar, but the vending machine industry objected, even thought most of their machines wouldn't take the small dollar anyway.
In 1964-65 and 1976-79 vending machine interests controlled the primary "citizen" advisory groups to the Mint. The various clad and alloy materials for coins had to meet with their approval - and no one else's. (The illogical size of the Anthony dollar was dictated to Mint by the same industry -- because it would fit in existing mechanisms, and required only replacement of a cheap external coin slot plate.
I remember hearing in late 1978 from a reliable source (I was still working for Coin World at the time) that the precise size chosen for the SBA dollar was picked because there was no common foreign coin of that size and weight that could be used in U.S. vending machines as a dollar.
Slugging has always been a problem. German one pfennig coins were the same size as Chicago Transit Authority tokens and worked in the turnstiles. When I worked for Harlan Berk in Chicago we used to get people coming in and asking to buy them by the hundred. Of course we knew why they wanted them and we would not sell them, but it was always fun to listen to the booshwah reasons they gave for why they wanted them.
"My kid's school project" was a popular lie. One guy called and said that his kid wanted to give them out in class. I said to come on in and I'll take care of you. When he came in i laid 100 TWO pfennig coins in front of him and said that I was giving him two pfennig coins for the price of one pfennig coins and that will be one dollar. Of course he could not admit why the larger coins would not work and I stood there watching him squirm. Eventually he left without taking them.
One year we bought all of the foreign coins, slugs and rejects from the CTA by weight. Lot of French Francs that had been passed as quarters, and about a thousand pounds of German one pfennig coins. There was a Polish silver coin about the size of a nickel from the 1690's, and one Mexican 2-1/2 peso gold coin that I suspect had been passed as a dime.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
RE: "I remember hearing in late 1978 from a reliable source (I was still working for Coin World at the time) that the precise size chosen for the SBA dollar was picked because there was no common foreign coin of that size and weight that could be used in U.S. vending machines as a dollar."
Yep. That was the official reason, and it made sense. Back then a 5 aurar bronze coin from Iceland would be accepted as a US quarter in most vending machines. Soldiers returning from Europe gave them out to kids.
@DIMEMAN said:
Really too bad they didn't go with this design. It's the best modern design EVER. Instead they went with that GAWD awful SBA coin!
This rendition strongly reminds me of the Peace Dollar portrait.
He added more hair, undid the bun, added the liberty cap and pole.....but it's pretty much the Peace Dollar--which is a great-looking coin in its own right.
Mini-peace $.
Here's the evolution of Gasparro's Lady Liberty from the Smithsonian collection: Art of Frank Gasparro: 10th United States Mint Chief Engraver. He liked to make sketches on photographs from magazines and newspapers, one evolution of which is shown below starting with a radiate crown and Phrygian cap.
There are a number of other sketches and design studies on the site. Of note, here's the front page Gasparro's own copy of Coin World with his mailing label still attached:
http://dollar-coin.nu/someguysrant.html - letter from Donald D. Carlucci, Chairman of the Board, Pennsylvania Association of Numismatists to Mr. Robert E. Rubin, Secretary of the Treasury
I wouldn't want to see the above design as a circulating coin. The eagle is off-center and looks like it's attempting to fly out of the coin. I don't blame it.
Yes, I agree that is a sick looking eagle & unfortunately the Liberty looks a bit dense with that "hang open" mouth (in tribute to the Peace Dollar), perhaps suggesting micrognathia and chronic sinus problems.
Still a dramatic overall depiction of Liberty....
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
The Liberty Pole and Cap have been icons representing a free America going back to 1766 when a Liberty Pole was raised in colonial NY in defiance of the Stamp Act. Allegorical representations of Liberty with her Pole and Cap were prolifically displayed throughout revolutionary America in newspapers, magazines, broadsides, architecture, sculpture, etc., giving great inspiration to Americans for the cause of liberty.
The Liberty Pole and Cap should be returned again to a circulating US coin, I love Gasparro's version.
Paul Revere engraved Miss Liberty in many issues of the radical Royal American Magazine in 1775, prophetically calling for an independent country.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
On the bottom of Paul Revere's engraving with Lady Liberty it looks like there is an Indian headdress. If so, this could be a 1775 forerunner to the IHC, IHE and St. Gaudens Winged Liberty.
The basic design has a lot of appeal and potential. But Gasparo's version is typically bland, dull and lacking it dynamic detail. Same for Ike dollar, Anthony dollar, on and on.
@Zoins said:
Here is an image of the Gasparro-designed 1969 ANA medal.
Some questions:
Did the Lady Liberty device on this medal exist before the 1969 medal?
Did Gasparro or someone else create the device?
If Gasparro designed it, was ownership of Gasparro's work transferred to the ANA or not?
Mike Wallace's SmallDollars.com states Gasparro designed the ANA medal:
<< <i>The obverse motif is the same one used on a medal that Gasparro designed for the American Numismatic Association's 1969 convention medal (depicted below). >>
If Gasparro created the device, the question is whether ownership was transferred as part of the contract. Many artists retain copyright ownership of their work, even when commissioned by others.
I still like that design!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
That design MIGHT have made the small dollar work. We will never know.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I was a little kid just starting out with collecting coins when I saw the designs for this pattern dollar. I thought it was beautiful and I wanted one so much. I remember being disappointed when the SBA design was picked instead.
In 2017, Ken Potter commissioned the Royal Oak Mint to strike 200 of Frank Gasparro's design for a 40th anniversary. The original issue price was $65. Of note, Jared Grove's issue was also done in 2017 for the 40th anniversary.
Comments
Today, I am amazed at the number of non-collectors who believe and are positive that the SBA dollar did have 11 sides. Well, maybe they don't remember the exact number of supposed sides.
The reverse eagle in Tom's photos looks stronger and bolder than the one from Krause. I like how the wings extend out into the United States of America text more.
I also think that 1977-S Ike decagon is way too cool. That would be one cool piece to have.
The photos showing Gasparro at work also add a human touch to his work which I haven't seen with many other designers / engravers.
<< <i>
<< <i>FYI, the coin is pictured on the cover of the October 1976 copy of Coinage... for everyone that has a copy still lying around
It looks like a plaster model actually and not a coin that is on the cover. The article inside is pretty neat though as it talks about them experimenting with Ike dollars with 10-sides and the striking of other designs and blanks on 8-sided, 10-sided, 11-sided and 13-sided planchets. It also talks about testing six different metallic compositions.
The article says that Gasparro thought of the design used on this new dollar as the highlight of his career. Too bad it never made it to circulation.
The article also says he began work on the design in 1967 for the half dollar. Thinking that it could be used for a commemorative coin. That seems to go against those saying that he created the design for the ANA medal. >>
Read through the copy you sent me. Thanks.
The 1967 reference was to the reverse design only.
TD >>
The reference to the 1967 work for a half dollar, as mentioned above, is at the end of P. 55 and is specifically referring to the reverse design only.
The reference to the obverse design, at the top of P. 56, is vague as to the year and intent and may refer to the work on the ANA medal.
Reverse discussion on pages 55-56:
<< <i>Gasparro's concept for the reverse design of the soaring eagle is almost a decade old. "I began working on it in 1967 for the half dollar," he explained, exhibiting sketches for what he "thought would be a commemorative coin." >>
Obverse discussion on page 56:
<< <i>Gasparro's rendition efforts began in late 1967 or early 1968 and utilize a flowing haired Liberty facing left. The preliminary results were incorporated by the U.S. Mint's chief engraver into the 1969 American Numismatic Association's 78th anniversary convention. >>
It would help to know when the ANA approached Gasparro regarding the 1969 medal.
<< <i>For those who are interested and have not received the PDF copy yet, here are the two passages being discussed:
Reverse discussion on pages 55-56:
<< <i>Gasparro's concept for the reverse design of the soaring eagle is almost a decade old. "I began working on it in 1967 for the half dollar," he explained, exhibiting sketches for what he "thought would be a commemorative coin." >>
>>
Exactly.
As an aside, Gasparro's comments about the soaring eagle reverse design are confusing. Surely in 1967 he did not think that the Mint would be replacing the Kennedy half dollar, with his own reverse design, that soon, and the official Treasury Dept. position was that commemorative coins were dead, dead, dead.
I understand that many engravers over the years have worked on a pet project that they had ready when a coin design was needed (like John Sinnock's Franklin Head/ Liberty Bell concept), and this soaring eagle may have been Gasparro's pet project However, his suggestion that it was intended for a half dollar or a commemorative does not seem to make sense.
<< <i>
<< <i>For those who are interested and have not received the PDF copy yet, here are the two passages being discussed:
Reverse discussion on pages 55-56:
<< <i>Gasparro's concept for the reverse design of the soaring eagle is almost a decade old. "I began working on it in 1967 for the half dollar," he explained, exhibiting sketches for what he "thought would be a commemorative coin." >>
>>
Exactly.
As an aside, Gasparro's comments about the soaring eagle reverse design are confusing. Surely in 1967 he did not think that the Mint would be replacing the Kennedy half dollar, with his own reverse design, that soon, and the official Treasury Dept. position was that commemorative coins were dead, dead, dead.
I understand that many engravers over the years have worked on a pet project that they had ready when a coin design was needed (like John Sinnock's Franklin Head/ Liberty Bell concept), and this soaring eagle may have been Gasparro's pet project However, his suggestion that it was intended for a half dollar or a commemorative does not seem to make sense. >>
I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense. Gasparro was working at the Mint so he had more information from both official and unofficial discussions than people have from the outside. Certainly the bi-centennial commemorative coins in 1975 and 1976 (as well as the Ike dollar in 1971, not to mention the Peace Dollar in 1964) were not too far away from 1967/68 when Gasparro started working on the obverse and reverse designs. It seems plausible that there could have been discussions on new coins and commemoratives at the Mint as early as the mid to late 60s.
IIRC, when the Peace dollar was shot down in 1965, there was a restriction imposed that no dollar coin of any sort could be coined for five years. Does anybody have this reference?
TD
<< <i>The Treasury fought against Bicentennial coin designs well into 1973. All they wanted to do was use a dual date, 1776-1976, on all six denominations in 1976.
IIRC, when the Peace dollar was shot down in 1965, there was a restriction imposed that no dollar coin of any sort could be coined for five years. Does anybody have this reference?
TD >>
Regardless of whether any coins or designs were approved, the fact there was a discussion and a "fight" means other opinions were being expressed.
For the bi-centennials, it is plausible the people campaigning for different bi-centennial designs were already coming up with ideas before the Treasury changed their mind 1973. Is there any material to support this?
For the dollar, if there was a restriction for five years after 1965, it seems there could be interest to start preparing designs ahead of time in anticipation of future release of the restriction.
There's nothing wrong with a little optimism and planning ahead.
Coinage Act of 1965, Title I Section 101 (c) July 23, 1965
"No standard silver dollars may be minted during the five year period which begins on the date of enactment of this Act."
Note, it does not prohibit non-standard dollar coins.
Anyone pick up one of Jared Grove's 40th Anniversary tributes? There were 750 Cu-Ni and 250 .999 silver struck. Also, anyone know who did the engraving on this? Apparently, Jared still uses full size plasters.
Here's a photo of the Eisenhower small dollar galvano courtesy of Coin World.
IMHO, Gasparro was exceptionally untalented. However, that does put him firmly in the middle ranks of most of the U.S.Mint's Chief Engravers. None of his American coin designs that made it to production are anything special and his Lincoln Memorial was a travesty. This Liberty thing only looks kinda good in comparison to the Susan B. Anthony Dollar. Not a good sketcher, not good at design layout, not a good artist. People who are enthusiastic about this stuff are simply kidding themselves. America could have had much better.
Some people really like this design and many US coin designs have differing opinions on the artistic merits.
For those not crazy about the design, consider there's enthusiasm due to history and enthusiasm due to art. I have no problem with the former or the latter. Many modern and classic US coins have uninspired designs in my opinion but can still be valued from a historical perspective. I find the historical aspect fascinating.
I believe in collecting coins as historic artifacts, but "coins as history" is a funny thing. Coins add the most to our understanding of history when the historical record is sketchy or incomplete. There are only about a kabillion better ways to learn about the history of the 1960s or 1970s than to look at our nation's coinage or proposed coins.
In modern times, a nice historic coin that tickles your fancy should stimulate you to better read the historic record, learn foreign languages, learn geography, economics, etc. The coin itself is at best incomplete unless it adds to your curiosity.
I agree, but this is a hobby and people should enjoy it how they will.
As for the historical record, I post more subject-matter related Wikipedia links to this forum than most.
And on the coin side of things, I've also updated Wikipedia's coin and collector biography info
This is an interesting, and informative, thread. I do like the design and would prefer it over the SBA. I imagine we are getting close to eliminating the dollar bill.... that will release the flood of dollar coins now stored in vaults. Which means, we will be stuck with uglies for many years to come. Cheers, RickO
This was a great thread.
Having said that, am I the only one who thinks it's a terrible design? It's still better than the SBA, though, IMO.
A blast from the past!
The Treasury Dept maintains copyright of creative designs made by employees and outside contractors. This got much tighter after the Frank Sinatra medal problem.
IN 1979 the Mint reviewed several "golden" color materials for the small dollar, but the vending machine industry objected, even thought most of their machines wouldn't take the small dollar anyway.
In 1964-65 and 1976-79 vending machine interests controlled the primary "citizen" advisory groups to the Mint. The various clad and alloy materials for coins had to meet with their approval - and no one else's. (The illogical size of the Anthony dollar was dictated to Mint by the same industry -- because it would fit in existing mechanisms, and required only replacement of a cheap external coin slot plate.
I remember hearing in late 1978 from a reliable source (I was still working for Coin World at the time) that the precise size chosen for the SBA dollar was picked because there was no common foreign coin of that size and weight that could be used in U.S. vending machines as a dollar.
Slugging has always been a problem. German one pfennig coins were the same size as Chicago Transit Authority tokens and worked in the turnstiles. When I worked for Harlan Berk in Chicago we used to get people coming in and asking to buy them by the hundred. Of course we knew why they wanted them and we would not sell them, but it was always fun to listen to the booshwah reasons they gave for why they wanted them.
"My kid's school project" was a popular lie. One guy called and said that his kid wanted to give them out in class. I said to come on in and I'll take care of you. When he came in i laid 100 TWO pfennig coins in front of him and said that I was giving him two pfennig coins for the price of one pfennig coins and that will be one dollar. Of course he could not admit why the larger coins would not work and I stood there watching him squirm. Eventually he left without taking them.
One year we bought all of the foreign coins, slugs and rejects from the CTA by weight. Lot of French Francs that had been passed as quarters, and about a thousand pounds of German one pfennig coins. There was a Polish silver coin about the size of a nickel from the 1690's, and one Mexican 2-1/2 peso gold coin that I suspect had been passed as a dime.
TD
RE: "I remember hearing in late 1978 from a reliable source (I was still working for Coin World at the time) that the precise size chosen for the SBA dollar was picked because there was no common foreign coin of that size and weight that could be used in U.S. vending machines as a dollar."
Yep. That was the official reason, and it made sense. Back then a 5 aurar bronze coin from Iceland would be accepted as a US quarter in most vending machines. Soldiers returning from Europe gave them out to kids.
Really too bad they didn't go with this design. It's the best modern design EVER. Instead they went with that GAWD awful SBA coin!
And a good one too! There's some great info posted in this thread!
This rendition strongly reminds me of the Peace Dollar portrait.
He added more hair, undid the bun, added the liberty cap and pole.....but it's pretty much the Peace Dollar--which is a great-looking coin in its own right.
Mini-peace $.
Here's the evolution of Gasparro's Lady Liberty from the Smithsonian collection: Art of Frank Gasparro: 10th United States Mint Chief Engraver. He liked to make sketches on photographs from magazines and newspapers, one evolution of which is shown below starting with a radiate crown and Phrygian cap.
There are a number of other sketches and design studies on the site. Of note, here's the front page Gasparro's own copy of Coin World with his mailing label still attached:
Just ran across additional images of Gasparro's original design for the clad (and golden?) small dollar here:
I wouldn't want to see the above design as a circulating coin. The eagle is off-center and looks like it's attempting to fly out of the coin. I don't blame it.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
That ten-sided collector's could would have been so cool.
Really cool, thanks Zoins!
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Yes, I agree that is a sick looking eagle & unfortunately the Liberty looks a bit dense with that "hang open" mouth (in tribute to the Peace Dollar), perhaps suggesting micrognathia and chronic sinus problems.
Still a dramatic overall depiction of Liberty....
Well, just Love coins, period.
Anyone know who was Gasparro's model for Lady Liberty?
She's a model that did a photo shoot in an Albert Nipon suit:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1395949
Jared Grove has issued a 3rd version of his 1977 Lady Liberty tribute, a 1/2 oz silver piedfort:
The Liberty Pole and Cap have been icons representing a free America going back to 1766 when a Liberty Pole was raised in colonial NY in defiance of the Stamp Act. Allegorical representations of Liberty with her Pole and Cap were prolifically displayed throughout revolutionary America in newspapers, magazines, broadsides, architecture, sculpture, etc., giving great inspiration to Americans for the cause of liberty.
The Liberty Pole and Cap should be returned again to a circulating US coin, I love Gasparro's version.
Paul Revere engraved Miss Liberty in many issues of the radical Royal American Magazine in 1775, prophetically calling for an independent country.
Gasparro's dollar design has always appealed to me. I did grab one silver piece from the last run, and may have to grab another from the final run.
Great info @Nysoto!
On the bottom of Paul Revere's engraving with Lady Liberty it looks like there is an Indian headdress. If so, this could be a 1775 forerunner to the IHC, IHE and St. Gaudens Winged Liberty.
Thanks. I picked up a couple piedforts. Reminds me of the1793 half cent..
Here's Jared Grove's 3rd and final issue of the Gasparro commemorative. This one is a 1/2 troy oz silver piedfort. All 3 issues are sold out:
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If only. Political Correctness is the curse of our time. Sad.
The basic design has a lot of appeal and potential. But Gasparo's version is typically bland, dull and lacking it dynamic detail. Same for Ike dollar, Anthony dollar, on and on.
I bought one of these.
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN
I still like that design!
Just ran across this signed Frank Gasparro image from the Smithsonian:
http://www.coinnews.net/2013/07/12/us-bill-seeks-new-dime-quarter-and-half-dollar-designs/
That design MIGHT have made the small dollar work. We will never know.
I was a little kid just starting out with collecting coins when I saw the designs for this pattern dollar. I thought it was beautiful and I wanted one so much. I remember being disappointed when the SBA design was picked instead.
In 2017, Ken Potter commissioned the Royal Oak Mint to strike 200 of Frank Gasparro's design for a 40th anniversary. The original issue price was $65. Of note, Jared Grove's issue was also done in 2017 for the 40th anniversary.
Photo from WorthPoint / eBay: