Frank Gasparro 1977 Lady Liberty Dollar Pattern
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Recently there was a thread that touched on Gasparro's 1977 Liberty design. In that thread, there was a discussion on whether or not Frank Gasparro's design for the coin was copyrighted. Tom DeLorey mentioned that, when he worked at the ANA, he heard the ANA owned a copyright on Gasparro's Lady Liberty device, which was also used on Gasparro's 1969 ANA medal. Tom also mentioned that Gasparro received permission from the ANA to use the device on the 1977 small dollar design. Since many stories are told as fact without evidence, I was interested to learn if there was any supporting material for this particular story. I wanted to know more and Tom suggested I look into this myself if I was interested. After some initial research, I have not found evidence of copyright ownership by the ANA. I also have not found evidence the ANA gave permission to Gasparro to use the design. Here's some information so far:
(1) Tom's original source for the story was an ANA employee so I contacted the ANA. I received an email stating an initial search did not turn up any copyright records for the Lady Liberty device. It mentioned that the ANA likely had permission from Gasparro to use his work for the 1969 medal.
(2) Since copyrights are registered with the US Copyright Office, there should be a record on file with a registration number if the story Tom heard is true. I did an initial search at the US Copyright website which did not turn up any results.
Does anyone have any information on whether there is a copyright on this design or not?
Thanks
(1) Tom's original source for the story was an ANA employee so I contacted the ANA. I received an email stating an initial search did not turn up any copyright records for the Lady Liberty device. It mentioned that the ANA likely had permission from Gasparro to use his work for the 1969 medal.
(2) Since copyrights are registered with the US Copyright Office, there should be a record on file with a registration number if the story Tom heard is true. I did an initial search at the US Copyright website which did not turn up any results.
Does anyone have any information on whether there is a copyright on this design or not?
Thanks
0
Comments
Fab design, btw.
-----Tom DeLorey mentioned that, when he worked at the ANA, he heard the ANA owned a copyright on Gasparro's Lady Liberty device
-----It mentioned that the ANA likely had permission from Gasparro to use his work for the 1969 medal.
(1) Does the ANA own a copyright? So far, the evidence appears suggest no ownership.
(2) Does Frank Gasparro's estate own a copyright? The author of creative work does not have to file to have a ownership claim; however, Gasparro did the 1977 work as a employee of the US government and many employment contracts state the employer owns creative work produced in the course of employment. Even if Gasparro had a copyright on the device for the 1969 work, when he included it in the 1977 design, it is possible ownership was transferred to the US government.
(3) Does the US government own a copyright? Many works of the US government are put into the public domain. For coins, the US Mint lists a number of coins which have copyrighted designs, but the list I've seen is very small (less than 5 coins) and did not include this piece.
<< <i>i'm confused, could you perhaps clarify who exactly is supposed to have held a copyright and when, the ANA or Gasparro??
-----Tom DeLorey mentioned that, when he worked at the ANA, he heard the ANA owned a copyright on Gasparro's Lady Liberty device
-----It mentioned that the ANA likely had permission from Gasparro to use his work for the 1969 medal. >>
The story Tom heard suggests the ANA owns a copyright.
However, the email I received from the ANA suggests it is the other way around, that Gasparro owned the design and granted permission to the ANA.
Politics and nothing more totally screwed up the effort to save money on printing dollar bills.
The name is LEE!
Some questions:
* Did the Lady Liberty device on this medal exist before the 1969 medal?
* Did Gasparro or someone else create the device?
* If Gasparro designed it, was ownership of Gasparro's work transferred to the ANA or not?
Mike Wallace's SmallDollars.com states Gasparro designed the ANA medal:
<< <i>The obverse motif is the same one used on a medal that Gasparro designed for the American Numismatic Association's 1969 convention medal (depicted below). >>
If Gasparro created the device, the question is whether ownership was transferred as part of the contract. Many artists retain copyright ownership of their work, even when commissioned by others.
<< <i>I have no information but if THAT coin, in a manganese/copper alloy had been produced in 1979, we'd be using small dollars on a regular basis today.
Politics and nothing more totally screwed up the effort to save money on printing dollar bills. >>
I can agree with this, had that design been chosen, the public may have been more receptive,
and millions of dollars may have been saved tryin to push the SBA acceptince program that
government entities forced upon us, whenever I needed a SBA dollar in the 80's and 90's
I went to where my brother worked and got them out of the vending machines. he worked
at RTD in LA, there called metrolink now or something like that, and the program go's on.
Steve
not even romotely close. the American public has been fairly clear on the subject, they do not like Dollar Coins and have resisted using them to the point that most citizens don't even know what they are simply because they never see them. the only way that a Dollar Coin will circulate is if it's the only choice. you may appreciate the design as a collector, but the overwhelming majority of the American public doesn't even really know or care what design is on a coin. ask your non-collector friends, they probably can't even tell you who is on any currently circulating coin.. the only reason we know and care is because we are collectors.
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<< <i>
I love the design but why did he put a parrot on the reverse?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
I love the design but why did he put a parrot on the reverse?
...i thought it was a chicken.
<< <i>if THAT coin, in a manganese/copper alloy had been produced in 1979, we'd be using small dollars on a regular basis today.
not even romotely close. the American public has been fairly clear on the subject, they do not like Dollar Coins and have resisted using them to the point that most citizens don't even know what they are simply because they never see them. the only way that a Dollar Coin will circulate is if it's the only choice. you may appreciate the design as a collector, but the overwhelming majority of the American public doesn't even really know or care what design is on a coin. ask your non-collector friends, they probably can't even tell you who is on any currently circulating coin.. the only reason we know and care is because we are collectors. >>
You're probably right Al except the color of the coin most certainly played an EXTREMEMLY important part in regard to its success and acceptance by both public and businesses.
Thousands of dollars were lost due to confusing the coin with the quarter dollar which, had it been golden colored, would have never happened.
Had the coin received a better success ratio, then its possible that the Government would have gone ahead with eliminating the paper dollar but since businesses and people were actually losing money due to the confusion, there was just no way it was going to happen.
And BTW, the "American Public" hasn't made anything perfectly clear since the American Public is not the primary distributor or coinage. Hell, not even banks distribute coins to the public. Businesses do. Both big and small and until the dollar coin gets accepted by those institutions, it will simply never have a chance. Leave those institutions "without" their paper dollars and acceptance of the coin(s) would be forthcoming.
I think the public doesn't really care as long as whatever they receive spends but the folks that have a vested interest in continuing to Produce Paper Dollars would have you believe otherwise.
When I was in England a few months back, folks weren't whining at the registers when given 1 and 2 pound coins in change. They didn;t whine France either and they don;t whine in Canada. Canadians love their Loonies and Toonies!
The name is LEE!
The current staff has no reason to know the legal points of an agreement made between the ANA and a private individual 42 years ago. I would suggest that it might be best to contact the ANA's legal counsel directly, and offer to pay for his time to research the matter, lest the ANA be stuck with the bill.
Fortunately, the ANA does publish a magazine, and I have gleaned a few things from my 1969 set of "The Numismatist."
The design was created by Gasparro for the ANA medal, and approved by the ANA Board of Governors.
The medals were struck by the Medallic Art Company, and not the United States Mint.
In the July issue, Arthur Sipe mentions in his "from the President's Desk" column:
"On May 22 I had the distinct pleasure of viewing the plaster molds and models for the 1969 ANA 78th anniversary convention medals in the home of Frank Gasparro, the designer and sculptor of the models, who is also the chief engraver of the United States Mint in Philadelphia. He has done an outstanding piece of superb sculpturing for our convention medal, the finest I have ever seen."
The fact that the work was done at Gasparro's home proves that the commission was a private commission between the ANA and Gasparro, and that the work was not done in his capacity as Chief Engraver of the U.S. Mint. As such, the U.S. Mint would have no claim on the design.
When I have the time I will research the 1977-1978 Numismatists to see if I can find any mention of an agreement between the ANA and Gasparro and/or the U.S. Mint allowing Gasparro and/or the U.S. Mint to use the ANA's 1969 convention medal design for the proposed small dollar coin.
TD
<< <i>I Luke that design a lot >>
Reminds me of what darth vadar said: "Like I am your father!"
In 1987 Canada successfully introduced the eleven-sided Loon dollar, which works just fine in vending machines.
TD
<< <i>I love the ANA, but it is sadly lacking in "old-timers" who remember the way things used to be, as we had in Glenn Smedley, Adna Wilde and Bill Henderson when I worked at headquarters back in 1978-84. I guess I am now one of the "old-timers."
The current staff has no reason to know the legal points of an agreement made between the ANA and a private individual 42 years ago. I would suggest that it might be best to contact the ANA's legal counsel directly, and offer to pay for his time to research the matter, lest the ANA be stuck with the bill.
Fortunately, the ANA does publish a magazine, and I have gleaned a few things from my 1969 set of "The Numismatist."
The design was created by Gasparro for the ANA medal, and approved by the ANA Board of Governors.
The medals were struck by the Medallic Art Company, and not the United States Mint.
In the July issue, Arthur Sipe mentions in his "from the President's Desk" column:
"On May 22 I had the distinct pleasure of viewing the plaster molds and models for the 1969 ANA 78th anniversary convention medals in the home of Frank Gasparro, the designer and sculptor of the models, who is also the chief engraver of the United States Mint in Philadelphia. He has done an outstanding piece of superb sculpturing for our convention medal, the finest I have ever seen."
The fact that the work was done at Gasparro's home proves that the commission was a private commission between the ANA and Gasparro, and that the work was not done in his capacity as Chief Engraver of the U.S. Mint. As such, the U.S. Mint would have no claim on the design.
When I have the time I will research the 1977-1978 Numismatists to see if I can find any mention of an agreement between the ANA and Gasparro and/or the U.S. Mint allowing Gasparro and/or the U.S. Mint to use the ANA's 1969 convention medal design for the proposed small dollar coin.
TD >>
Thanks for looking this up Tom. This is great information. I especially enjoyed Sipe's personal account of the viewing.
I'll consider reaching out to the ANA again. It would be interesting to see the agreement from a historical perspective, especially if it had Gasparro's signature. However, if the ANA does (or did) happen to have ownership of the design, from their actions to date, it seems like they either have or would like to contribute the design to the public domain, like the vast majority of US coin designs.
<< <i>
<< <i>I Luke that design a lot >>
Reminds me of what darth vadar said: "Like I am your father!" >>
I think it's "Luke, I am your father."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
BTW, the Gasparro designs appear on P. 7 of the Mint Report for the Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 1976, (published around May of 1977), but does not mention the origin of the design. Does anybody have the next year's Mint Report you could check?
TD
Edited to add: just noticed that the reverse design in the Mint Report is significantly different in layout than the design in the OP. WIll try to image and upload it tonight.
TD
It looks like a plaster model actually and not a coin that is on the cover. The article inside is pretty neat though as it talks about them experimenting with Ike dollars with 10-sides and the striking of other designs and blanks on 8-sided, 10-sided, 11-sided and 13-sided planchets. It also talks about testing six different metallic compositions.
The article says that Gasparro thought of the design used on this new dollar as the highlight of his career. Too bad it never made it to circulation.
The article also says he began work on the design in 1967 for the half dollar. Thinking that it could be used for a commemorative coin. That seems to go against those saying that he created the design for the ANA medal.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>just noticed that the reverse design in the Mint Report is significantly different in layout than the design in the OP. WIll try to image and upload it tonight. >>
I am very intrigued. I'd love to see a picture of that Tom
<< <i>FYI, the coin is pictured on the cover of the October 1976 copy of Coinage... for everyone that has a copy still lying around
It looks like a plaster model actually and not a coin that is on the cover. The article inside is pretty neat though as it talks about them experimenting with Ike dollars with 10-sides and the striking of other designs and blanks on 8-sided, 10-sided, 11-sided and 13-sided planchets. It also talks about testing six different metallic compositions.
The article says that Gasparro thought of the design used on this new dollar as the highlight of his career. Too bad it never made it to circulation.
The article also says he began work on the design in 1967 for the half dollar. Thinking that it could be used for a commemorative coin. That seems to go against those saying that he created the design for the ANA medal. >>
That sounds like a very interesting and worthwhile article illini420. If Gasparro thought this was the highlight of his career, the design must have been very important for him. If he intended to use design for a half dollar or commemorative coin back in 1967, it seems unlikely he would sign over the rights to another party unless it was the US government for coinage purposes. It also seems plausible that he could have created the design as an employee of the US Mint.
Does anyone know if this article has been scanned and made available online?
If the ANA holds copyright on the image engraved for the 1969 medal, that is one thing. (But then again, they may not.)
Clearly the prototype design for the small dollar coin, even though a similar looking design, is not high relief, as in the ANA issue, so ANA would not hold a copyright on that.
Given that, I would think that Daniel Carr could logically make a fantasy issue of the flowing hair prototype without fearing litigation, in keeping with the recent fantasy designs he has been issuing.
<< <i>That sounds like a very interesting and worthwhile article illini420. If Gasparro thought this was the highlight of his career, the design must have been very important for him. If he intended to use design for a half dollar or commemorative coin back in 1967, it seems unlikely he would sign over the rights to another party unless it was the US government for coinage purposes. It also seems plausible that he could have created the design as an employee of the US Mint.
Does anyone know if this article has been scanned and made available online? >>
If it hasn't and anyone wants to read it, I might be able to scan my copy.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Among other things it recommends getting rid of the half dollar and introducing a small dollar. Has pictures of a smaller Ike dollar (dated 1977) with the eleven-sided inner border to the rims as on the SBA, but the two pictures of strikes from the dies (on cupro-nickel clad nickel and brass-clad copper planchets) appear to be round. There are also pictures of various Martha Washington/Mount Vernon strikes (some round, one eleven-sided), one of the round ones circulated as a test piece.
There are also pictures of Gasparro with the Liberty Head models shown in the Mint Report I mentioned above. From a few spots you can tell they are the same things.
Will continue to dig backwards.
TD
<< <i>Recently there was a thread that touched on Gasparro's 1977 Liberty design. In that thread, there was a discussion on whether or not Frank Gasparro's design for the coin was copyrighted. Tom DeLorey mentioned that, when he worked at the ANA, he heard the ANA owned a copyright on Gasparro's Lady Liberty device, which was also used on Gasparro's 1969 ANA medal. Tom also mentioned that Gasparro received permission from the ANA to use the device on the 1977 small dollar design. Since many stories are told as fact without evidence, I was interested to learn if there was any supporting material for this particular story. I wanted to know more and Tom suggested I look into this myself if I was interested. After some initial research, I have not found evidence of copyright ownership by the ANA. I also have not found evidence the ANA gave permission to Gasparro to use the design. Here's some information so far:
(1) Tom's original source for the story was an ANA employee so I contacted the ANA. I received an email stating an initial search did not turn up any copyright records for the Lady Liberty device. It mentioned that the ANA likely had permission from Gasparro to use his work for the 1969 medal.
(2) Since copyrights are registered with the US Copyright Office, there should be a record on file with a registration number if the story Tom heard is true. I did an initial search at the US Copyright website which did not turn up any results.
Does anyone have any information on whether there is a copyright on this design or not?
Thanks
What is the source of this image?
TD
<< <i>Working my way backwards. Found a nice article by David Ganz in the December, 1976 The Numismatist reviewing the Research Triangle Institute's report on U.S. Coinage System Requirements To 1990.
TD >>
The article I have from the October 1976 issue of Coinage was also by David Ganz, photos by Larry Stevens, including several photos of the obverse and reverse plaster models. The reverse eagle is slightly different than the images posted here and looks more like the eagle from the Flying Eagle Cent.
If anyone wants a scanned copy of the article, send me a PM with your email address.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>
What is the source of this image?
TD >>
Mike Wallace lists it on his smalldollars.com site as courtesy of Krause Publications.
Thanks.
<< <i>
Note that the eagle is higher, and there are five stars under the wing below RICA. The eagle's tail is also quite different, and the mountain behind E PLURIBUS UNUM is more pronounced.
The same issue also has a short article about the proposed 10-sided Ike to be issued for collectors only... I have a pdf copy of that article too
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>Could somebody please explain to me how to upload multiple images into the same posting?
Thanks. >>
You just keep clicking that little picture icon on the menu bar above your reply box for each image and they get arranged consecutively. You can space them as you please once they are assembled in the reply box.
<< <i>FYI, the coin is pictured on the cover of the October 1976 copy of Coinage... for everyone that has a copy still lying around
It looks like a plaster model actually and not a coin that is on the cover. The article inside is pretty neat though as it talks about them experimenting with Ike dollars with 10-sides and the striking of other designs and blanks on 8-sided, 10-sided, 11-sided and 13-sided planchets. It also talks about testing six different metallic compositions.
The article says that Gasparro thought of the design used on this new dollar as the highlight of his career. Too bad it never made it to circulation.
The article also says he began work on the design in 1967 for the half dollar. Thinking that it could be used for a commemorative coin. That seems to go against those saying that he created the design for the ANA medal. >>
Read through the copy you sent me. Thanks.
The 1967 reference was to the reverse design only.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>FYI, the coin is pictured on the cover of the October 1976 copy of Coinage... for everyone that has a copy still lying around
It looks like a plaster model actually and not a coin that is on the cover. The article inside is pretty neat though as it talks about them experimenting with Ike dollars with 10-sides and the striking of other designs and blanks on 8-sided, 10-sided, 11-sided and 13-sided planchets. It also talks about testing six different metallic compositions.
The article says that Gasparro thought of the design used on this new dollar as the highlight of his career. Too bad it never made it to circulation.
The article also says he began work on the design in 1967 for the half dollar. Thinking that it could be used for a commemorative coin. That seems to go against those saying that he created the design for the ANA medal. >>
That sounds like a very interesting and worthwhile article illini420. If Gasparro thought this was the highlight of his career, the design must have been very important for him. If he intended to use design for a half dollar or commemorative coin back in 1967, it seems unlikely he would sign over the rights to another party unless it was the US government for coinage purposes. It also seems plausible that he could have created the design as an employee of the US Mint.
Does anyone know if this article has been scanned and made available online? >>
The 1967 reference in the story is to the reverse design, the flying eagle, only.
TD
I was in England at the time of transition and in Canada at the time of tranistion. You better believed that people whined about it! But they got over it.
Edit: I should mention that it was a minority of folk whining loudly.
<< <i>
<< <i>FYI, the coin is pictured on the cover of the October 1976 copy of Coinage... for everyone that has a copy still lying around
It looks like a plaster model actually and not a coin that is on the cover. The article inside is pretty neat though as it talks about them experimenting with Ike dollars with 10-sides and the striking of other designs and blanks on 8-sided, 10-sided, 11-sided and 13-sided planchets. It also talks about testing six different metallic compositions.
The article says that Gasparro thought of the design used on this new dollar as the highlight of his career. Too bad it never made it to circulation.
The article also says he began work on the design in 1967 for the half dollar. Thinking that it could be used for a commemorative coin. That seems to go against those saying that he created the design for the ANA medal. >>
Read through the copy you sent me. Thanks.
The 1967 reference was to the reverse design only.
TD >>
At the top of the 3rd column on p. 56 it said "Gasparro's rendition efforts began in late 1967 or early 1968 and utilize a flowing haired Liberty facing left. The preliminary results were incorporated by the U.S. Mint's chief engraver into the 1969 official medal of the American Numismatic Association's 78th anniversary convention."
Seems like they are definitely talking about the obverse Liberty design there at least. Also in the caption of the photo of the medal on p. 55 it says Gasparro was "working on transforming the original Libertas Americana medal...into a modern coin" at the time he helped create the ANA medal.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448