Fantastic series Bruins fans. If you would have told me at the beginning of the season that the Lightning would make it that far I would have been absolutely shocked! In fact, I still am to be honest. This year was being called a rebuild, and my hopes were that they would at least challenge for the playoffs and they certainly went above and beyond. Sucks to make it this far and lose, but the fact that it is hopefully only the beginning of something great makes it a little easier to swallow. Both teams have good solid cores that should be intact for the next few years so who knows, we may see each other again next postseason?
The Penguins moving to the WC next year? <wink> You can thank David Steckel and your boy Hedman for Tampa getting that far because obviously the Lightning would have been one and done in the first round against a healthy Penguins squad who were the best EC team this year. I mean it took 7 games to get past that team despite the Pens missing the best offensive player in the league and another top scorer in Malkin. Clearly even Yzerman didn't think TB was going to even get this far because the majority of his moves were made in season. While I agree TB has a nice core, you also have a bunch of RFAs and UFAs to take care of - one sorta important one with a dinged beak, and your future top D-man -only-hits-from-behind Hedman is due for a major raise next year. I'll assume TB will go the Kovalchuk contract route and give Stamkos a 10-12 year deal with a reasonable cap hit, but if he only wants a 5 year deal, I think you guys could be in trouble cap wise. TB has about $45M committed to next year which means they should have about $18M under the cap (assuming they'll spend up to the cap) to take care of the RFAs - Stamkos, Purcell, and whatever Yzerman decides to do with Lundin and Smaby. But then you also have UFAs in Brewer, Bergenheim, Hall, Bergeron, R. Jones, Rolo, and Smith. I kind of expect Yzerman to tab Bergenheim to replace the (surely) outgoing Gagne. The good news is you have Lecavalier for 3 more years soaking up 1/6 of the team's cap at a cringe-worthy $10m per, and you still owe Prospal nearly $2m for the next 3 years as well. On the flipside, the ridiculous $ given to Malone at $6m per year, starts to decline after next year when he bumps down to $3.5m over the last two years of his deal. So I guess depending on what Stamkos receives, the raises to Purcell (he'll probably get $2.3-2.5M in arbitration if he doesn't resign beforehand) whom I think they'll keep, I assume they want Brewer back but he'd have to take a pay cut from the $4.2M he made this season, and assuming Ced Desjardins will be the backup in goal on the cheap, I'm not so sure TB will be able to do much more to improve depending on whom they will go with as a starting goalie. If they go budget, they'll probably bring back Rolo on a one or two year deal. If they go quality in Vokoun or Bryzgalov in FA they will definitely be up against the cap and you'd probably have to waive buh bye to at two of the key RFA/UFAs. Needless to say, it's going to be an interesting off-season for Yzerman.
<< <i>TB has about $45M committed to next year which means they should have about $18M under the cap (assuming they'll spend up to the cap) to take care of the RFAs - Stamkos, Purcell, and whatever Yzerman decides to do with Lundin and Smaby. >>
BTW, I said "see each other next postseason", which implies it could be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round. I have no delusions of grandeur other than the expectation that this team will be consistently competitive.
<< <i>I'm not so sure TB will be able to do much more to improve depending on whom they will go with as a starting goalie. If they go budget, they'll probably bring back Rolo on a one or two year deal. If they go quality in Vokoun or Bryzgalov in FA they will definitely be up against the cap and you'd probably have to waive buh bye to at two of the key RFA/UFAs. Needless to say, it's going to be an interesting off-season for Yzerman. >>
The research I've read on this suggests that one NHL goalie is pretty much like another, so they might as well take whatever's cheapest. Spending big money on a goalie (again, according to the research) appears to be a bad idea.
<< <i>You/they are omitting caphits like the $5.5M bonus cushion and LTIR that TB has that counts towards the cap. Capgeek has never been very accurate. >>
Then what are the exact numbers that CapGeek is missing and for what players?
BTW, I am not saying the Lightning are in fantastic shape cap-wise. I realize the task at hand for the front office, with re-signing Stammer likely being the number one priority. The play of Purcell and Bergenheim in the playoffs will really bring up their numbers, and decisions for players like Gagne and Brewer will be interesting to see as well (if they come back, how much they come back for, etc). Then you throw in the goalie situation on top of all of that. I've been saying for a couple months now that I can't wait to see what Yzerman has up his sleeve this summer, but whatever he decides I have all the faith in the world in him. I will definitely have plenty to pay attention to this summer!
They owe Prospal $1.167M in bonus cushion money. They're going to be paying the majority of Ellis' deal to play for the Ducks at $1.129M. They have a buyout of former punching bag Fedoruk that they'll be paying for two more years and then varying performance/signing bonuses to Stamkos and a few others. I'm not going to go back and look up the exact figures on P-bonuses. You should be able to find them on your own, and there are probably some that have yet to be tallied for next season. I didn't even look to see if St.Louis had any performance based bonuses, but I know Stamkos and Hedman do, and Stamkos will likely get a few more under his new deal. For reference, Toews and Kane's peformance bonuses after the Cup win totaled just over $4M. They are a cap killer.
The research I've read on this suggests that one NHL goalie is pretty much like another, so they might as well take whatever's cheapest. Spending big money on a goalie (again, according to the research) appears to be a bad idea.
you can make correlations between fluctuating performances between goalies and relief pitching in baseball, and as much as I like Vokoun, I definitely wouldn't spend $ on a top goalie, as I wouldn't spend top money on a closer or setup man either. I'd assume given Yzerman's apprenticeship under Ken Holland, that's the probable route he'll go as well. Yzerman could have easily signed Nabakov had he wanted to last year. TB wound up spending $9M under the cap after all, though I'd assume that was ownership's decision. That said, he did try to go bottom feeding with Ellis to hedge the largely awful Mike Smith and we saw how that worked out (-16.3 GVT combined, 26th in the league at goalie even after acquiring Rolo). Rolo on a one year deal makes sense even if they have to overpay him a bit. Desjardins looked pretty good in his brief stint last year, and he is one of TB's top prospects so they're in good shape for a backup.
As for Philly, it's true that they carried 2 largely journeymen goalies in Boucher and Leighton + a rookie in Bobrovsky, but they also received journeymen goalie performances in the playoffs and Bob was overmatched without a healthy Pronger in front of him, so they've already been tied to pursuing Bryzgalov.,..including rumors of shopping Jeff Carter to acquire his rights early. Makes some sense as with Giroux's emergence Philly is now paying Richards 5.75M a year to be a 3rd line checker. It's also true that the last two goalies standing are being paid $6.7M (Borat Luongo), and $6M (Flint Thomas) respectively, while the Hawks paid Antti Niemi $850K last year (though they were paying Huet $5.67M to wear a baseball hat). M.A. Fleury made $5M the year prior. I'm not sure what Osgood made the year before that. Probably around $2.5M. Cam Ward was on entry level when he won with Carolina but that's a different case as he was only a backup going into the playoffs. It's easy to say that spending money on lower tier or mid-tier goalies is wiser, but even if you find a Niemi eventually they outperform their entry level or short term deals and their value takes them to a team willing to pay for a goalie like Vancouver or SJ.
This is also a relatively new strategy that the Wings began implementing so the sample size is still small, but when you look at those who have followed their strategy, you see that it's a bit easier to go cheap with goalies when you have Lidstrom and his solid core of 4 d-mates Rafalski, Jagwall and Stuart, then you had Keith, Seabrook, Campbell and Hjammer in Chicago, and Pronger and his 5 man fire drill in Philly. You also had very strong defensive forwards and systems + strong puck possession teams with those three teams as well. So you have to take that into account. If it were that easy then the cheap goalie strategy would work for Colombus and Ottawa and some of the other teams without great goaltending. The difference is those teams suck defensively. It didn't work in the end for TB because they were average on the blueline and slightly worse at forward equaling a mid-tier team defense. Perhaps TB can get away with it next year by continuing to tighten up their system (they changed defensive systems at least 3 times and their system used in the playoffs they only began playing the 3 weeks prior to the playoffs), bring back Brewer for a full season, pickup someone on the blueline who can actually move the puck because the guy who they signed to be that guy - Kubina, isn't, and it wouldn't hurt for Stamkos to work on his ability at the dot so they aren't getting boatraced on faceoffs. But goalies aside, I think if you break it down, in today's NHL, you need your top 2 line forwards to be relatively strong defenders. You had that with Detroit, Chicago, Philly, Pitt, and now Boston. Vancouver might be the exception since the Sedins both lack interest in their own end, but they also have soon-to-be Selke winner - Kesler and Burrows picking up their slack around them. I think you can get away with having two of those guys in your top 6, but as you saw in TB, Stamkos tries but he's weak on D, St. Louis, Gagne, and Lecavalier are average at best, and Bergenheim wasn't much better defensively. Too much pressure on the blueline, and the loads of blocked shots that Brewer, Hedman and Clark piled up reflects that. They really need a Joe Pavelski or Patrice Bergeron strong two way forward type to go along with the strong defensive play of Purcell (2.09 on Ice Goals Against per 60 Min) in their top 6 and that's where I'd be directing my money if I were Yzerman. I like their bottom six with the fantastic defensive play of Moore, Thompson, and Tyrell. Bringing Adam Hall back will help out that strong bottom 6.
Anyway, back to goalies, the skill difference between a $6M/yr goalie and a $2-$2.5M/yr goalie probably isn’t that large in most cases. However, the difference between a $1M/yr forward or defenseman and a $4M/yr forward or defenseman can be massive. If I were an NHL GM, I'm trying to pry away young talented backups with minimal experience like Lindback, C. Schneider, or Josh Harding and then lock them up before their entry level expires to get a bit of a discount. Of course you have to have the prospects, young cheap talent, or willingness to trade draft picks to acquire those guys.
"After reviewing the incident, including speaking with the on-ice officials, I can find no conclusive evidence that Alex Burrows intentionally bit the finger of Patrice Bergeron"
Was the NHL watching the same video that everyone else saw? It was pretty obvious he leaned in and chomped down. Is the NHL saying that it was an UNINTENTIONAL bite or that Bergeron just made the whole story up? What a joke.
<< <i>"After reviewing the incident, including speaking with the on-ice officials, I can find no conclusive evidence that Alex Burrows intentionally bit the finger of Patrice Bergeron"
Was the NHL watching the same video that everyone else saw? It was pretty obvious he leaned in and chomped down. Is the NHL saying that it was an UNINTENTIONAL bite or that Bergeron just made the whole story up? What a joke. >>
FWIW I think this is a bad year for Bruins fans to be complaining about the total lack of consistency in the NHL's disciplinary proceedings.
<<<oh I don't know, there were probably numerous Bruin fans who were objective when it came to guys like Lucic, Ference, or Chara not being suspended.>>>
Of those 3, only Lucic should have been suspended.
Lane, I know you hate Ference, but he did nothing but stiffen his shoulder. Halpern had 25-feet to look up and see him. I'm sure he was thinking that Halpern would see him by the time they made contact. It's no different than Giroux's hit that knocked Bergeron out for the beginning of the Tampa series, which I didn't think was suspendable, either.
As for Chara, the result of a hit shouldn't dictate whether a suspension is levied. Chara made contact on the shoulder, not the head, it just so happened they were near the turnbuckle. I didn't hear many (if any) ex-hockey player analysts saying Chara should be suspended for that before the ruling came down. I'll admit, I was surprised when Chara did not get suspended, but I think Murphy looked at the intent of the hit when making his ruling, not the result.
Just like Walker for the Hurricanes in Game 7 two years ago...a guy that should have been suspended scores the OT game winner.....give me an F'n break.
If this keeps up, the Canucks will be getting themselves into the type of series that they do NOT want. I promise you, the Bruins play these types of chippy games better (and probably more often) than anyone.
Mike Murphy must sure feel like a boob now for not suspending Burrows. The NBC commentators use every opportunity they can for pointing out how obvious it was that Burrows bit Bergeron, pretty much insulting Murphy at every turn. Looking at it now, it may end up being a rallying point for the Bruins.
They could have played 120 minutes last night and Vancouver wouldn't have scored. I can't think of too many, if any, really good chances the Canucks had on their 38 shots.
I don't think I've ever disliked a player that performed well on a Boston team. But its getting close with Brad Marchand. If he wasn't on the Bruins, he'd be neck and neck with Steve Downie for me as the most annoying player in the league.
I think he has the skill to be a perennial 30-goal scorer, but he focuses way too much on "being a pest". At some point, he's going to have to back up his cheap shots by fighting, and that isn't going to be pretty for him. He can't have McQuaid or Thornton doing the dirty work for him forever. Here's hoping he tones down the cheap tactics, and focuses more on putting the puck in the net.
<< <i>I don't think I've ever disliked a player that performed well on a Boston team. But its getting close with Brad Marchand. If he wasn't on the Bruins, he'd be neck and neck with Steve Downie for me as the most annoying player in the league.
I think he has the skill to be a perennial 30-goal scorer, but he focuses way too much on "being a pest". At some point, he's going to have to back up his cheap shots by fighting, and that isn't going to be pretty for him. He can't have McQuaid or Thornton doing the dirty work for him forever. Here's hoping he tones down the cheap tactics, and focuses more on putting the puck in the net. >>
You are cluless. Every team wants or wishes they had an agitator like Marchand, especially as a rookie. He throw people off their game and he is not a cheap shot. He is not as bad as Avery, Cooke or Ott.
Why risk a penalty by slashing Sedin before the face-off 3 times, like he did last night??? Face it, if he played for Vancouver, you would HATE Marchand. Just because he plays for our team doesn't make it right.
<< <i><<<He throw people off their game and he is not a cheap shot. He is not as bad as Avery, Cooke or Ott. >>>
Why risk a penalty by slashing Sedin before the face-off 3 times, like he did last night??? Face it, if he played for Vancouver, you would HATE Marchand. Just because he plays for our team doesn't make it right. >>
That's pretty much how I feel about Downie. I know he provides a lot to the team in the way of chemistry, and he's actually ridiculously talented, but he still kind of leaves me shaking my head some times. There were 2 Bruins fans sitting in front of me at one of the games last series and they said themselves that the only reason people hate Downie is because he isn't on their favorite team. They were talking like if he played in Boston he would be absolutely LOVED up there and the one guy went as far as saying he plays "Bruins hockey". And no, I'm not making this up.
<<<They were talking like if he played in Boston he would be absolutely LOVED up there and the one guy went as far as saying he plays "Bruins hockey".>>>
I think someone was a little confused about what Bruins hockey is.
<< <i><<<They were talking like if he played in Boston he would be absolutely LOVED up there and the one guy went as far as saying he plays "Bruins hockey".>>>
I think someone was a little confused about what Bruins hockey is. >>
Hey these were Bruins "fans". Although they likely have lived in Tampa their entire lives and have an uncle that lives in Boston so they show up to games when the Sox and Bruins are in town lol.
I think someone was a little confused about what Bruins hockey is.
I'm sure they just meant he runs constant illegal inference, routinely leaves his check in order to land a hit, or often leaves his skates on his hits resulting in a multitude of no-calls to which the fanbase will still complain that the team is getting screwed by the refs/Bettman/NHL. <wink>
You are cluless. Every team wants or wishes they had an agitator like Marchand, especially as a rookie. He throw people off their game and he is not a cheap shot. He is not as bad as Avery, Cooke or Ott.
every team? The Blackhawks have kept their (albeit skilled) agitator Kyle Beach buried in the AHL for 2 years as the result of his unwillingness to check himself despite being a 11th overall draft pick with a seven figure contract. They also shipped their other prospect agitator Akim Aliu to the ATL prior to the season for nothing more than a Chinese bootleg of the Hangover....not to mention letting Burish walk in FA. Who was the last Red Wing agitator? A Young McCarty 20 years ago? Nashville has curbed Tootoo's act even at times placing him in a scorer's role. How many games was Carcillo healthy scratched this season? Answer: 25...he's also going to be unemployed in a few weeks. Who is Marchand throwing off their game? He's 5'9. Nobody cares about him, and even if they did, his mum sewed his mittens to his sweater so what does it matter. If you questioned the Children of the Swedish Corn who is responsible for their ineptitude in the Finals thus far, I'll place my green on the blocker slashing Interferer Flint Thomas, Patty Bergeron, and/or the 6'9 glacier. Maybe the game is different on my TV, but I've noticed when the Sedins jump on for a shift, ol' Claude (who really should be fired for rolling McQuaid's useless carcass out on the ice ahead of the smooth skating, puck moving Kampfer alone) isn't tapping Marchand on his shoulder. He's cracking the whip on Bergeron, the giant beaked Slovak, and the German. he is not a cheap shot Rj Umberger would disagree. I'd imagine Olczyk would disagree as well considering he made no secret of his disdain for that low-bridge he pulled on Sedin during the broadcast last night. For some reason people don't seem to be enthused about his abilities in the pool either. I think all Marchand has left to do in this series is skate over to Malhotra and start cracking jokes about Malhotra's eye. And yes he is every bit of Cooke, Burrows, Ott, and Downie's level of turdness which is quite impressive for one season's work. I place Marchand at #3 behind Cooke and Burrows but in front of Ott and Downie because at least those two will answer for their actions most of the time. Marchand can't be bothered as when he does something stupid, it's the kind of stupidity that gets him run from the game so his teammates are left behind to clean up his garbage. Avery isn't even really Avery anymore. Tortorella has largely neutered his act with a healthy dose of healthy scratches. Avery is nothing more than a 4th line checker these days. You can love your pest, but guys like Marchand are the reason guys like Savard are rocking an Armani in the press box.
You need players like Marchand for a playoff run. He gets under the skin of the other teams better players, he scores shorthanded goals and he is very good on offense. Yeah, he is not a fighter, but he is more of a agitator than a goon. He is not in the same category as Mr. Laner would want you to believe. Marchand chirps alot and uses his stick, but he is not #3 in the NHL. As a rookie he scored 21 goals, 20 assists and only 51 PM. He also had a +/- of 25 and 5 shorties on the season. He can't back up his style of play with his fists, but he justifies everything he does with his offensive skill. Guys like Tikkanen and C. Lemieux were the best agitators, Marchand is not in their class.
05-06 - Carolina - 0 "agitators" 06-07 - Anaheim - unless you're counting Corey Perry, 0. 07-08 - Detroit - 0 08-09 - Pittsburgh - Cooke (averaged less than 1 Penalty Minute per game in the Playoffs) 09-10 - Blackhawks - 0 10-11 - Burrows or Marchand
FWIW when I said Marchand is #3, I'm not talking about his sheer volume of incidents, I'm talking about a current ranking in all-around douchebaggery. His diving, his unwillingness to back anything up, his hiding behind his teammates, his propensity for hitting and elbowing from behind, taking runs at skill players, the slashing behind the play etc. It's great that Marchand scored 40 points. So did Downie last year. Cooke banked 40 with VAN a few years ago. Ott has racked 70, and 50 in two other seasons. It's also great that Marchand was able to score 5 shorties...but F. Nielsen scored 7, and Grabner tallied 6 shorties respectively and to the best of my recollection, they didn't elbow anyone in the head from behind.
he justifies everything he does with his offensive skill. Guys like Tikkanen and C. Lemieux were the best agitators, Marchand is not in their class.
Also, you need to be a bit above a 40 point scorer to justify his act. When he gets to 50 G per year then people can look past knee on knee hits and hitting from behind like Ovechkin has gotten away with. As for Tikkanen and Lemieux, Ciccarelli thinks they're amateur hour.
You could make a case for Kirk Maltby as an agitator. That's not necessarily his role per se but he could be very annoying to opposing players. The fact he was a fantastic defensive player certainly helped.
Marchand definitely has a large dose of douchebag in him. His cheap shot on Umberger was absolutely inexcusable. His defense: "I did get him in the head," he said. "That wasn't my intention. I was just trying to make contact. That stuff happens in hockey. It's a rough sport. Sometimes that happens, and you have to live with it." There isn't a word of truth in that statement. He clearly lifted his elbow and intentionally aimed high. And that crap at the end of game four was just so bush league. And then when it comes time, Marchand isn't willing to answer for his actions.
And, really, 40 points isn't enough to offset anything. 40pt offensive guys are a dime a dozen. Yes, Marchand was just a rookie and could easily hit 30 goals a year but he ain't there yet.
<< <i>he justifies everything he does with his offensive skill. Guys like Tikkanen and C. Lemieux were the best agitators, Marchand is not in their class.
Also, you need to be a bit above a 40 point scorer to justify his act. When he gets to 50 G per year then people can look past knee on knee hits and hitting from behind like Ovechkin has gotten away with. As for Tikkanen and Lemieux, Ciccarelli thinks they're amateur hour. >>
Laner, do you like anyone that plays hockey? You know your crap, but you shred almost every player and team. I think you just don't like the B's. Who is your team and what are they players that you like so we can critque them? You always talk about the players or teams that everyone else posts about.
You could make a case for Kirk Maltby as an agitator. That's not necessarily his role per se but he could be very annoying to opposing players. The fact he was a fantastic defensive player certainly helped.
that's fair. I thought about Maltby, but I don't have him in the classic "agitator" category...maybe earlier in his career. You know him better than me, but he did only play in 12 of the games during that Cup run...so even if you do consider him an agitator, he wasn't a very integral part of that roster aside from his work on defense/the kill. I also forgot Dallas Drake was on that roster in his final season...and although his d-bag days were largely behind him at that stage, in his prime he was a boarding machine. I don't know if one would classify him as a agitator or a goon. Either way, I don't have either of those guys in that category at that stage of their respective careers. Especially when that team was all about outshooting their opponents at an appx. 10-1 ratio and curbing all penalties taken.
Laner, do you like anyone that plays hockey? You know your crap, but you shred almost every player and team. I think you just don't like the B's. Who is your team and what are they players that you like so we can critque them? You always talk about the players or teams that everyone else posts about.
I guess the icon wasn't a dead giveaway. I think if you read this thread you'll see I've tossed bouquets at Thomas and Bergeron. I respect Chara's game aside from all of his stickwork behind the play or between the whistles. But you're free to criticize anyone. I'm nowhere close to a unabashed homer shill, so anything you might say, I've probably already been much tougher on them myself.
You just seem like a miserable hockey fan and you complain about almost every team or player. Maybe I am just reading into it too much, but every time someone brings up a point you fire back like opinion or point is completely wrong.
<<<Laner, do you like anyone that plays hockey? You know your crap, but you shred almost every player and team.>>>
Lane just wishes that NHL players would wear tutus and skate around not hitting or fighting, or even touching anybody in general. That's about the only common thread I can find in all of his posts.
It probably has more to do with reading comprehension difficulties and lack of objective thought and reasoning from certain individuals. Though I will give one of you two credit for realizing Marchand is a compost heap. There's nothing in this thread (or any other) to suggest I dislike or I"m against legal hitting in the NHL. Nor am I against fighting, though most fights serve no purpose other than injury risk. Unless it's defending a teammate at the hands of some Marchand like dope taking liberties, I'd prefer my players to pass, though I'm more than willing to watch the useless John Scott beatdown Chara with a few uppercuts. Sadly Chara didn't want anything to do with the 21-0 Murdersaurus since he doesn't like to go with guys his own size. Or at least he doesn't since arriving in Boston. I don't mind seeing guys like Scott drop the mittens because like McQuaid and Thornton, the team immediately improves when he's off the ice and in the box. That said, I'll continue to focus more on actual defense, positioning, and skill....because I like to win. I'll just sit back and listen to you guys tell me how tough guys like Lucic are. Despite his inability to find his way to the front of the net with a map and flashlight while getting outhit 2.5:1 by a Swede in key games. Coaches, Player Development Depts, and scouts refer to that as "a willingness to pay the price". Or in simple terms, toughness. Generally a component of a power forward. We had a thread a few months ago regarding faux NHL toughness largely dealing with players who mouthbreathing hockey fans perceive to be tough who actually aren't...but it's understandable that neither of you two likely saw it considering it was dated before the second round of the NHL playoffs.
<<<but it's understandable that neither of you two likely saw it considering it was dated before the second round of the NHL playoffs. >>>
I had a partial season ticket plan for the B's this year, so I can only assume you were referring to somebody else.
As for Lucic, people forget that he just turned 23, and still has a lot to learn. Before this season, he was never really considered an offensive threat (and frankly, I'm not quite sure he deserves to be considered now). There are a lot of shortcomings in his game (terrible in his own end and god-awful in the neutral zone with the puck on his stick, and as you point out, doesn't bang in front of the net nearly as often as he should), but I'd put toughness (however one wants to define it) pretty far down the list.
Believe it or not, most of us also like to win. We just don't ignore the physical part of the game. It is pretty evident in this series that the more physical team has won every game. If it was purely a skill game, the Canucks would have already been finished with their victory parade by now.
Again, no one is ignoring the "physical" part of the game. As I noted before with the hit counts (obviously you perceived BOS would be near the top, they weren't anywhere near) as well as other quantitative stats, but there are also people who associate physical play with fighting, hitting, agitating, post-whistle scrum garbage, penalty minutes etc ONLY. There are also people who associate physical play with blocking shots, or unquantifiable play such as a willingness to take a beating in front of the net in high traffic areas. The willingness to absorb one of Chara's pitchfork no-calls if you will. Ask most fans what they think of Crosby. Ah he's soft, a diver, "Cindy" ahh. Well he isn't scoring 50 G a year with wrist or slapshots from the perimeter. He's perpetually parked near the crease and has arguably become the top shot tipper/redirector in the game. Datsyuk, Parise, Toews, etc...also no strangers to camping out around the crease, yet those are players most meatball fans consider soft or unphysical. Here's another one for you ponder.
Lucic - 167 hits, 22 blocks, 7 fights (79 games) Franzen - 153 hits, 29 blocks, 0 fights (76 games) Also the guy more willing to bang around the cage.
one guy is considered soft, the other a bruiser because he punches people. I give Lucic credit, he doesn't duck the enforcer types, but if you average everything out across every spectrum of "physical" or tough play, the difference isn't as large as a meatball fan would have you believe.
It is pretty evident in this series that the more physical team has won every game. If it was purely a skill game, the Canucks would have already been finished with their victory parade by now.
that's an oversimplified measure....so I'll have to disagree. You're also forgetting defense and goaltending are SKILLS. If they weren't guys like Eric Brewer and Z.Michalek wouldn't be making $4+M per with no offensive ability. Thomas, Chara, Seidenberg, and Bergeron (defensively) are the reasons the Bruins are still alive. It also helps Boston's cause when Kesler is playing on one leg. Game 3's beating aside, Game 4 BOS received two very fortunate bounces off of a skate and a stick respectively, so that was a game that could/should have been another potential OT type game that could have gone either way. The hit counts/physical play help, it's a factor, but you can't possibly think it's more important than actual defense and Thomas' historically great goaltending. It's just one component. Not the endgame.
<<<Game 4 BOS received two very fortunate bounces off of a skate and a stick respectively, so that was a game that could/should have been another potential OT type game that could have gone either way. >>>
Those bounces may have been lucky, but I don't think the game was that close. Yes, Thomas had to make 38 saves, but very few of those were very difficult. I thought Boston controlled that game pretty much from start to finish. Same way the Canucks did in Game 5 - I thought they could have played for another 2 periods and the Bruins wouldn't have been able to score.
I probably oversimplified a little bit, but that has been the common thread in each game. Not that anyone should need extra motivation this time of year, but between Luongo's comments about Thomas, and the pre-planning of the victory parade, I think the Bruins will bring the physical edge, and I'm just hoping the trend continues with how that translates on the scoreboard.
It is pretty evident in this series that the more physical team has won every game. If it was purely a skill game, the Canucks would have already been finished with their victory parade by now.
that's an oversimplified measure....so I'll have to disagree. You're also forgetting defense and goaltending are SKILLS. If they weren't guys like Eric Brewer and Z.Michalek wouldn't be making $4+M per with no offensive ability. Thomas, Chara, Seidenberg, and Bergeron (defensively) are the reasons the Bruins are still alive. It also helps Boston's cause when Kesler is playing on one leg. Game 3's beating aside, Game 4 BOS received two very fortunate bounces off of a skate and a stick respectively, so that was a game that could/should have been another potential OT type game that could have gone either way. The hit counts/physical play help, it's a factor, but you can't possibly think it's more important than actual defense and Thomas' historically great goaltending. It's just one component. Not the endgame. >>
If Kesler playing on one leg is keeping the series going longer than it should then the series should be over considering the B's do not have Horton or Savard.
well VAN is missing it's #2 defenseman in Hamhuis, their #6 in Rome, a top 6 forward in M.Samuelsson, and a one legged Kesler. So who is in worse shape there? You're also forgetting the reason guys like Kaberle, Kelly, and Peverley are on this roster is because Savard's $7M isn't. If he were healthy, either 2 or all 3 of those mid-season acquisitions wouldn't be on this team so they wouldn't have the depth they're running out there now.
Btw, Borat's comment was taken out of context. He wasn't trying to bury Thomas. He was asked a question on that particular shot, and he simply noted that it was a shot that wasn't a difficult block. But since Thomas typically plays well outside of the paint, it was for him. Not a big deal. He was just pointing out their different styles. Also RE: Franzen. He does crash the net, he does put up similar hits and blocks to other power forwards, but he also flops and dives. Hence his "soft" reputation.
BTW, Savard and Horton equate to more than Hamhius and Samuleson. Rome is a #6 defensman and has been replaced by Alberts, which so far looks like an upgrade.
I agree with Lane on Luongo's initial comment. But, why Luongo felt the need to continue about how Thomas "hasn't pumped his tires", like he has for Thomas, I have no clue. Is he that insecure that he needs Thomas to praise him at every turn??
And on Franzen, I didn't mean to imply that I like him, just that he's tougher than most give him credit for.
That is complete BS about Luongo's statement and it was not taken out of context. He acted like a little baby about Thomas not pumping his tires.
uh the "pumping his brakes" comment came the day after Borat's original response to the question he was posed. You know, after the Boston media tried to build a "story" from a nothing comment fueled by some dope columnist who called the comment '"despicable".
That is why he took the swipe at Thomas. He just won game #5 of the Stanley Cup Finals and he has to take the swipe. It is just another act that has made the Canucks look bad in these Finals.
If Vancouver happens to win Game 7, has a Cup winner ever been outscored by as much as they would be? 19-7 Bruins so far this series with 8 minutes left in Game 6.
Comments
The Penguins moving to the WC next year? <wink> You can thank David Steckel and your boy Hedman for Tampa getting that far because obviously the Lightning would have been one and done in the first round against a healthy Penguins squad who were the best EC team this year. I mean it took 7 games to get past that team despite the Pens missing the best offensive player in the league and another top scorer in Malkin. Clearly even Yzerman didn't think TB was going to even get this far because the majority of his moves were made in season. While I agree TB has a nice core, you also have a bunch of RFAs and UFAs to take care of - one sorta important one with a dinged beak, and your future top D-man -only-hits-from-behind Hedman is due for a major raise next year. I'll assume TB will go the Kovalchuk contract route and give Stamkos a 10-12 year deal with a reasonable cap hit, but if he only wants a 5 year deal, I think you guys could be in trouble cap wise. TB has about $45M committed to next year which means they should have about $18M under the cap (assuming they'll spend up to the cap) to take care of the RFAs - Stamkos, Purcell, and whatever Yzerman decides to do with Lundin and Smaby. But then you also have UFAs in Brewer, Bergenheim, Hall, Bergeron, R. Jones, Rolo, and Smith. I kind of expect Yzerman to tab Bergenheim to replace the (surely) outgoing Gagne. The good news is you have Lecavalier for 3 more years soaking up 1/6 of the team's cap at a cringe-worthy $10m per, and you still owe Prospal nearly $2m for the next 3 years as well. On the flipside, the ridiculous $ given to Malone at $6m per year, starts to decline after next year when he bumps down to $3.5m over the last two years of his deal. So I guess depending on what Stamkos receives, the raises to Purcell (he'll probably get $2.3-2.5M in arbitration if he doesn't resign beforehand) whom I think they'll keep, I assume they want Brewer back but he'd have to take a pay cut from the $4.2M he made this season, and assuming Ced Desjardins will be the backup in goal on the cheap, I'm not so sure TB will be able to do much more to improve depending on whom they will go with as a starting goalie. If they go budget, they'll probably bring back Rolo on a one or two year deal. If they go quality in Vokoun or Bryzgalov in FA they will definitely be up against the cap and you'd probably have to waive buh bye to at two of the key RFA/UFAs. Needless to say, it's going to be an interesting off-season for Yzerman.
<< <i>TB has about $45M committed to next year which means they should have about $18M under the cap (assuming they'll spend up to the cap) to take care of the RFAs - Stamkos, Purcell, and whatever Yzerman decides to do with Lundin and Smaby. >>
$36 million. LINK
BTW, I said "see each other next postseason", which implies it could be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round. I have no delusions of grandeur other than the expectation that this team will be consistently competitive.
<< <i>I'm not so sure TB will be able to do much more to improve depending on whom they will go with as a starting goalie. If they go budget, they'll probably bring back Rolo on a one or two year deal. If they go quality in Vokoun or Bryzgalov in FA they will definitely be up against the cap and you'd probably have to waive buh bye to at two of the key RFA/UFAs. Needless to say, it's going to be an interesting off-season for Yzerman. >>
The research I've read on this suggests that one NHL goalie is pretty much like another, so they might as well take whatever's cheapest. Spending big money on a goalie (again, according to the research) appears to be a bad idea.
<< <i>You/they are omitting caphits like the $5.5M bonus cushion and LTIR that TB has that counts towards the cap. Capgeek has never been very accurate. >>
Then what are the exact numbers that CapGeek is missing and for what players?
BTW, I am not saying the Lightning are in fantastic shape cap-wise. I realize the task at hand for the front office, with re-signing Stammer likely being the number one priority. The play of Purcell and Bergenheim in the playoffs will really bring up their numbers, and decisions for players like Gagne and Brewer will be interesting to see as well (if they come back, how much they come back for, etc). Then you throw in the goalie situation on top of all of that. I've been saying for a couple months now that I can't wait to see what Yzerman has up his sleeve this summer, but whatever he decides I have all the faith in the world in him. I will definitely have plenty to pay attention to this summer!
The research I've read on this suggests that one NHL goalie is pretty much like another, so they might as well take whatever's cheapest. Spending big money on a goalie (again, according to the research) appears to be a bad idea.
you can make correlations between fluctuating performances between goalies and relief pitching in baseball, and as much as I like Vokoun, I definitely wouldn't spend $ on a top goalie, as I wouldn't spend top money on a closer or setup man either. I'd assume given Yzerman's apprenticeship under Ken Holland, that's the probable route he'll go as well. Yzerman could have easily signed Nabakov had he wanted to last year. TB wound up spending $9M under the cap after all, though I'd assume that was ownership's decision. That said, he did try to go bottom feeding with Ellis to hedge the largely awful Mike Smith and we saw how that worked out (-16.3 GVT combined, 26th in the league at goalie even after acquiring Rolo). Rolo on a one year deal makes sense even if they have to overpay him a bit. Desjardins looked pretty good in his brief stint last year, and he is one of TB's top prospects so they're in good shape for a backup.
As for Philly, it's true that they carried 2 largely journeymen goalies in Boucher and Leighton + a rookie in Bobrovsky, but they also received journeymen goalie performances in the playoffs and Bob was overmatched without a healthy Pronger in front of him, so they've already been tied to pursuing Bryzgalov.,..including rumors of shopping Jeff Carter to acquire his rights early. Makes some sense as with Giroux's emergence Philly is now paying Richards 5.75M a year to be a 3rd line checker. It's also true that the last two goalies standing are being paid $6.7M (Borat Luongo), and $6M (Flint Thomas) respectively, while the Hawks paid Antti Niemi $850K last year (though they were paying Huet $5.67M to wear a baseball hat). M.A. Fleury made $5M the year prior. I'm not sure what Osgood made the year before that. Probably around $2.5M. Cam Ward was on entry level when he won with Carolina but that's a different case as he was only a backup going into the playoffs. It's easy to say that spending money on lower tier or mid-tier goalies is wiser, but even if you find a Niemi eventually they outperform their entry level or short term deals and their value takes them to a team willing to pay for a goalie like Vancouver or SJ.
This is also a relatively new strategy that the Wings began implementing so the sample size is still small, but when you look at those who have followed their strategy, you see that it's a bit easier to go cheap with goalies when you have Lidstrom and his solid core of 4 d-mates Rafalski, Jagwall and Stuart, then you had Keith, Seabrook, Campbell and Hjammer in Chicago, and Pronger and his 5 man fire drill in Philly. You also had very strong defensive forwards and systems + strong puck possession teams with those three teams as well. So you have to take that into account. If it were that easy then the cheap goalie strategy would work for Colombus and Ottawa and some of the other teams without great goaltending. The difference is those teams suck defensively. It didn't work in the end for TB because they were average on the blueline and slightly worse at forward equaling a mid-tier team defense. Perhaps TB can get away with it next year by continuing to tighten up their system (they changed defensive systems at least 3 times and their system used in the playoffs they only began playing the 3 weeks prior to the playoffs), bring back Brewer for a full season, pickup someone on the blueline who can actually move the puck because the guy who they signed to be that guy - Kubina, isn't, and it wouldn't hurt for Stamkos to work on his ability at the dot so they aren't getting boatraced on faceoffs. But goalies aside, I think if you break it down, in today's NHL, you need your top 2 line forwards to be relatively strong defenders. You had that with Detroit, Chicago, Philly, Pitt, and now Boston. Vancouver might be the exception since the Sedins both lack interest in their own end, but they also have soon-to-be Selke winner - Kesler and Burrows picking up their slack around them. I think you can get away with having two of those guys in your top 6, but as you saw in TB, Stamkos tries but he's weak on D, St. Louis, Gagne, and Lecavalier are average at best, and Bergenheim wasn't much better defensively. Too much pressure on the blueline, and the loads of blocked shots that Brewer, Hedman and Clark piled up reflects that. They really need a Joe Pavelski or Patrice Bergeron strong two way forward type to go along with the strong defensive play of Purcell (2.09 on Ice Goals Against per 60 Min) in their top 6 and that's where I'd be directing my money if I were Yzerman. I like their bottom six with the fantastic defensive play of Moore, Thompson, and Tyrell. Bringing Adam Hall back will help out that strong bottom 6.
Anyway, back to goalies, the skill difference between a $6M/yr goalie and a $2-$2.5M/yr goalie probably isn’t that large in most cases. However, the difference between a $1M/yr forward or defenseman and a $4M/yr forward or defenseman can be massive. If I were an NHL GM, I'm trying to pry away young talented backups with minimal experience like Lindback, C. Schneider, or Josh Harding and then lock them up before their entry level expires to get a bit of a discount. Of course you have to have the prospects, young cheap talent, or willingness to trade draft picks to acquire those guys.
looking for low grade t205's psa 1-2
Was the NHL watching the same video that everyone else saw? It was pretty obvious he leaned in and chomped down. Is the NHL saying that it was an UNINTENTIONAL bite or that Bergeron just made the whole story up? What a joke.
<< <i>"After reviewing the incident, including speaking with the on-ice officials, I can find no conclusive evidence that Alex Burrows intentionally bit the finger of Patrice Bergeron"
Was the NHL watching the same video that everyone else saw? It was pretty obvious he leaned in and chomped down. Is the NHL saying that it was an UNINTENTIONAL bite or that Bergeron just made the whole story up? What a joke. >>
FWIW I think this is a bad year for Bruins fans to be complaining about the total lack of consistency in the NHL's disciplinary proceedings.
NHL Wheel of Justice
Of those 3, only Lucic should have been suspended.
Lane, I know you hate Ference, but he did nothing but stiffen his shoulder. Halpern had 25-feet to look up and see him. I'm sure he was thinking that Halpern would see him by the time they made contact. It's no different than Giroux's hit that knocked Bergeron out for the beginning of the Tampa series, which I didn't think was suspendable, either.
As for Chara, the result of a hit shouldn't dictate whether a suspension is levied. Chara made contact on the shoulder, not the head, it just so happened they were near the turnbuckle. I didn't hear many (if any) ex-hockey player analysts saying Chara should be suspended for that before the ruling came down. I'll admit, I was surprised when Chara did not get suspended, but I think Murphy looked at the intent of the hit when making his ruling, not the result.
looking for low grade t205's psa 1-2
Let's see if he gets this one right on Rome.
I think he has the skill to be a perennial 30-goal scorer, but he focuses way too much on "being a pest". At some point, he's going to have to back up his cheap shots by fighting, and that isn't going to be pretty for him. He can't have McQuaid or Thornton doing the dirty work for him forever. Here's hoping he tones down the cheap tactics, and focuses more on putting the puck in the net.
<< <i>I don't think I've ever disliked a player that performed well on a Boston team. But its getting close with Brad Marchand. If he wasn't on the Bruins, he'd be neck and neck with Steve Downie for me as the most annoying player in the league.
I think he has the skill to be a perennial 30-goal scorer, but he focuses way too much on "being a pest". At some point, he's going to have to back up his cheap shots by fighting, and that isn't going to be pretty for him. He can't have McQuaid or Thornton doing the dirty work for him forever. Here's hoping he tones down the cheap tactics, and focuses more on putting the puck in the net. >>
You are cluless. Every team wants or wishes they had an agitator like Marchand, especially as a rookie. He throw people off their game and he is not a cheap shot. He is not as bad as Avery, Cooke or Ott.
Apparently, you didn't see this or this.
Why risk a penalty by slashing Sedin before the face-off 3 times, like he did last night??? Face it, if he played for Vancouver, you would HATE Marchand. Just because he plays for our team doesn't make it right.
<< <i><<<He throw people off their game and he is not a cheap shot. He is not as bad as Avery, Cooke or Ott. >>>
Why risk a penalty by slashing Sedin before the face-off 3 times, like he did last night??? Face it, if he played for Vancouver, you would HATE Marchand. Just because he plays for our team doesn't make it right. >>
That's pretty much how I feel about Downie. I know he provides a lot to the team in the way of chemistry, and he's actually ridiculously talented, but he still kind of leaves me shaking my head some times. There were 2 Bruins fans sitting in front of me at one of the games last series and they said themselves that the only reason people hate Downie is because he isn't on their favorite team. They were talking like if he played in Boston he would be absolutely LOVED up there and the one guy went as far as saying he plays "Bruins hockey". And no, I'm not making this up.
I think someone was a little confused about what Bruins hockey is.
<< <i><<<They were talking like if he played in Boston he would be absolutely LOVED up there and the one guy went as far as saying he plays "Bruins hockey".>>>
I think someone was a little confused about what Bruins hockey is.
Hey these were Bruins "fans". Although they likely have lived in Tampa their entire lives and have an uncle that lives in Boston so they show up to games when the Sox and Bruins are in town lol.
I'm sure they just meant he runs constant illegal inference, routinely leaves his check in order to land a hit, or often leaves his skates on his hits resulting in a multitude of no-calls to which the fanbase will still complain that the team is getting screwed by the refs/Bettman/NHL. <wink>
You are cluless. Every team wants or wishes they had an agitator like Marchand, especially as a rookie. He throw people off their game and he is not a cheap shot. He is not as bad as Avery, Cooke or Ott.
every team? The Blackhawks have kept their (albeit skilled) agitator Kyle Beach buried in the AHL for 2 years as the result of his unwillingness to check himself despite being a 11th overall draft pick with a seven figure contract. They also shipped their other prospect agitator Akim Aliu to the ATL prior to the season for nothing more than a Chinese bootleg of the Hangover....not to mention letting Burish walk in FA. Who was the last Red Wing agitator? A Young McCarty 20 years ago? Nashville has curbed Tootoo's act even at times placing him in a scorer's role. How many games was Carcillo healthy scratched this season? Answer: 25...he's also going to be unemployed in a few weeks. Who is Marchand throwing off their game? He's 5'9. Nobody cares about him, and even if they did, his mum sewed his mittens to his sweater so what does it matter. If you questioned the Children of the Swedish Corn who is responsible for their ineptitude in the Finals thus far, I'll place my green on the blocker slashing Interferer Flint Thomas, Patty Bergeron, and/or the 6'9 glacier. Maybe the game is different on my TV, but I've noticed when the Sedins jump on for a shift, ol' Claude (who really should be fired for rolling McQuaid's useless carcass out on the ice ahead of the smooth skating, puck moving Kampfer alone) isn't tapping Marchand on his shoulder. He's cracking the whip on Bergeron, the giant beaked Slovak, and the German. he is not a cheap shot Rj Umberger would disagree. I'd imagine Olczyk would disagree as well considering he made no secret of his disdain for that low-bridge he pulled on Sedin during the broadcast last night. For some reason people don't seem to be enthused about his abilities in the pool either. I think all Marchand has left to do in this series is skate over to Malhotra and start cracking jokes about Malhotra's eye. And yes he is every bit of Cooke, Burrows, Ott, and Downie's level of turdness which is quite impressive for one season's work. I place Marchand at #3 behind Cooke and Burrows but in front of Ott and Downie because at least those two will answer for their actions most of the time. Marchand can't be bothered as when he does something stupid, it's the kind of stupidity that gets him run from the game so his teammates are left behind to clean up his garbage. Avery isn't even really Avery anymore. Tortorella has largely neutered his act with a healthy dose of healthy scratches. Avery is nothing more than a 4th line checker these days. You can love your pest, but guys like Marchand are the reason guys like Savard are rocking an Armani in the press box.
let's look at the post lockout Cup winners.
05-06 - Carolina - 0 "agitators"
06-07 - Anaheim - unless you're counting Corey Perry, 0.
07-08 - Detroit - 0
08-09 - Pittsburgh - Cooke (averaged less than 1 Penalty Minute per game in the Playoffs)
09-10 - Blackhawks - 0
10-11 - Burrows or Marchand
FWIW when I said Marchand is #3, I'm not talking about his sheer volume of incidents, I'm talking about a current ranking in all-around douchebaggery. His diving, his unwillingness to back anything up, his hiding behind his teammates, his propensity for hitting and elbowing from behind, taking runs at skill players, the slashing behind the play etc. It's great that Marchand scored 40 points. So did Downie last year. Cooke banked 40 with VAN a few years ago. Ott has racked 70, and 50 in two other seasons. It's also great that Marchand was able to score 5 shorties...but F. Nielsen scored 7, and Grabner tallied 6 shorties respectively and to the best of my recollection, they didn't elbow anyone in the head from behind.
Also, you need to be a bit above a 40 point scorer to justify his act. When he gets to 50 G per year then people can look past knee on knee hits and hitting from behind like Ovechkin has gotten away with. As for Tikkanen and Lemieux, Ciccarelli thinks they're amateur hour.
<< <i>07-08 - Detroit - 0 >>
You could make a case for Kirk Maltby as an agitator. That's not necessarily his role per se but he could be very annoying to opposing players. The fact he was a fantastic defensive player certainly helped.
Marchand definitely has a large dose of douchebag in him. His cheap shot on Umberger was absolutely inexcusable. His defense: "I did get him in the head," he said. "That wasn't my intention. I was just trying to make contact. That stuff happens in hockey. It's a rough sport. Sometimes that happens, and you have to live with it." There isn't a word of truth in that statement. He clearly lifted his elbow and intentionally aimed high. And that crap at the end of game four was just so bush league. And then when it comes time, Marchand isn't willing to answer for his actions.
And, really, 40 points isn't enough to offset anything. 40pt offensive guys are a dime a dozen. Yes, Marchand was just a rookie and could easily hit 30 goals a year but he ain't there yet.
Tabe
<< <i>he justifies everything he does with his offensive skill. Guys like Tikkanen and C. Lemieux were the best agitators, Marchand is not in their class.
Also, you need to be a bit above a 40 point scorer to justify his act. When he gets to 50 G per year then people can look past knee on knee hits and hitting from behind like Ovechkin has gotten away with. As for Tikkanen and Lemieux, Ciccarelli thinks they're amateur hour. >>
Laner, do you like anyone that plays hockey? You know your crap, but you shred almost every player and team. I think you just don't like the B's. Who is your team and what are they players that you like so we can critque them? You always talk about the players or teams that everyone else posts about.
that's fair. I thought about Maltby, but I don't have him in the classic "agitator" category...maybe earlier in his career. You know him better than me, but he did only play in 12 of the games during that Cup run...so even if you do consider him an agitator, he wasn't a very integral part of that roster aside from his work on defense/the kill. I also forgot Dallas Drake was on that roster in his final season...and although his d-bag days were largely behind him at that stage, in his prime he was a boarding machine. I don't know if one would classify him as a agitator or a goon. Either way, I don't have either of those guys in that category at that stage of their respective careers. Especially when that team was all about outshooting their opponents at an appx. 10-1 ratio and curbing all penalties taken.
Laner, do you like anyone that plays hockey? You know your crap, but you shred almost every player and team. I think you just don't like the B's. Who is your team and what are they players that you like so we can critque them? You always talk about the players or teams that everyone else posts about.
I guess the icon wasn't a dead giveaway. I think if you read this thread you'll see I've tossed bouquets at Thomas and Bergeron. I respect Chara's game aside from all of his stickwork behind the play or between the whistles. But you're free to criticize anyone. I'm nowhere close to a unabashed homer shill, so anything you might say, I've probably already been much tougher on them myself.
Lane just wishes that NHL players would wear tutus and skate around not hitting or fighting, or even touching anybody in general. That's about the only common thread I can find in all of his posts.
I had a partial season ticket plan for the B's this year, so I can only assume you were referring to somebody else.
As for Lucic, people forget that he just turned 23, and still has a lot to learn. Before this season, he was never really considered an offensive threat (and frankly, I'm not quite sure he deserves to be considered now). There are a lot of shortcomings in his game (terrible in his own end and god-awful in the neutral zone with the puck on his stick, and as you point out, doesn't bang in front of the net nearly as often as he should), but I'd put toughness (however one wants to define it) pretty far down the list.
Believe it or not, most of us also like to win. We just don't ignore the physical part of the game. It is pretty evident in this series that the more physical team has won every game. If it was purely a skill game, the Canucks would have already been finished with their victory parade by now.
Lucic - 167 hits, 22 blocks, 7 fights (79 games)
Franzen - 153 hits, 29 blocks, 0 fights (76 games) Also the guy more willing to bang around the cage.
one guy is considered soft, the other a bruiser because he punches people. I give Lucic credit, he doesn't duck the enforcer types, but if you average everything out across every spectrum of "physical" or tough play, the difference isn't as large as a meatball fan would have you believe.
It is pretty evident in this series that the more physical team has won every game. If it was purely a skill game, the Canucks would have already been finished with their victory parade by now.
that's an oversimplified measure....so I'll have to disagree. You're also forgetting defense and goaltending are SKILLS. If they weren't guys like Eric Brewer and Z.Michalek wouldn't be making $4+M per with no offensive ability. Thomas, Chara, Seidenberg, and Bergeron (defensively) are the reasons the Bruins are still alive. It also helps Boston's cause when Kesler is playing on one leg. Game 3's beating aside, Game 4 BOS received two very fortunate bounces off of a skate and a stick respectively, so that was a game that could/should have been another potential OT type game that could have gone either way. The hit counts/physical play help, it's a factor, but you can't possibly think it's more important than actual defense and Thomas' historically great goaltending. It's just one component. Not the endgame.
Those bounces may have been lucky, but I don't think the game was that close. Yes, Thomas had to make 38 saves, but very few of those were very difficult. I thought Boston controlled that game pretty much from start to finish. Same way the Canucks did in Game 5 - I thought they could have played for another 2 periods and the Bruins wouldn't have been able to score.
I probably oversimplified a little bit, but that has been the common thread in each game. Not that anyone should need extra motivation this time of year, but between Luongo's comments about Thomas, and the pre-planning of the victory parade, I think the Bruins will bring the physical edge, and I'm just hoping the trend continues with how that translates on the scoreboard.
that's an oversimplified measure....so I'll have to disagree. You're also forgetting defense and goaltending are SKILLS. If they weren't guys like Eric Brewer and Z.Michalek wouldn't be making $4+M per with no offensive ability. Thomas, Chara, Seidenberg, and Bergeron (defensively) are the reasons the Bruins are still alive. It also helps Boston's cause when Kesler is playing on one leg. Game 3's beating aside, Game 4 BOS received two very fortunate bounces off of a skate and a stick respectively, so that was a game that could/should have been another potential OT type game that could have gone either way. The hit counts/physical play help, it's a factor, but you can't possibly think it's more important than actual defense and Thomas' historically great goaltending. It's just one component. Not the endgame. >>
If Kesler playing on one leg is keeping the series going longer than it should then the series should be over considering the B's do not have Horton or Savard.
Btw, Borat's comment was taken out of context. He wasn't trying to bury Thomas. He was asked a question on that particular shot, and he simply noted that it was a shot that wasn't a difficult block. But since Thomas typically plays well outside of the paint, it was for him. Not a big deal. He was just pointing out their different styles. Also RE: Franzen. He does crash the net, he does put up similar hits and blocks to other power forwards, but he also flops and dives. Hence his "soft" reputation.
And on Franzen, I didn't mean to imply that I like him, just that he's tougher than most give him credit for.
uh the "pumping his brakes" comment came the day after Borat's original response to the question he was posed. You know, after the Boston media tried to build a "story" from a nothing comment fueled by some dope columnist who called the comment '"despicable".
looking for low grade t205's psa 1-2
If Vancouver happens to win Game 7, has a Cup winner ever been outscored by as much as they would be? 19-7 Bruins so far this series with 8 minutes left in Game 6.