<< <i>I've tried to avoid commenting on these type of threads across the board, and I've seen a bunch in 10 years.
Geck, sometimes the middle man get's burned. That sometimes is only when the middle man moves first with funds or product.
You sold your coworkers 200oz, they got what they wanted at the price+ last week. I don't see why you didn't just put the deal together and deliver as delivered to you. How hard would it have been to say "hey I might have a guy lined up to make this happen at such and such a price to YOU" and go from there. Are you trying to play your coworkers? What was the net for you, had to be something, which makes me think this wasn't a friendly deal from your standpoint at all if you wouldn't just point your buds to 200oz from tee w/o profit...? Yes time is worth something, but an ultimate what, 30-60 minutes on the board here that you hang out at anyway...
Yes the deal commit was hosed, and that sucks, but you jumped the gun and speculated yourself, took your 'hit' (if you can call it that) and are not taking much responsibility for it. You sold 200 engs for spot+ right, delivered, and the issue is your replacement line up had a problem. You say you have replacement all but in possession now, and silver is down from last week, so how much were you making or losing from your work buds...?
Just asking as you're getting defensive with folks not really 100% siding with you because you didn't get your cut right, when you jumped the gun. >>
On what basis do you make the accusation that he was making a "net" from his co-workers? That is nowhere in evidence. Obviously you have never been in a position where you could trust your co-workers, or they could trust you.
There are places and professions in the world where you can trust your co-workers, and where you cut your friends in on deals at no benefit to yourself just because they are your friends.
I think you own Phil an apology.
TD >>
No I don't think I do, and I won't, as I simply asked what the out was if there was one as that's how it could be interpretted. If it was a wash, with an apology from Tee and a make-good token already, as a net of inconvenience to Geck then oh well, no reason to get bent. Obviously he felt he got burned a bit, I just pointed out a question or 2 on the angle that other folks chimed in on a bit that touched a nerve about him making the first move.
True friends would understand it not going down, and true friends wouldn't have been in a position to take anything more than gecks' time. He delivered, and did his buds a favor at that, I simply asked why he was getting peeved with folks that didn't see eye to eye with him on this when he moved first with product on a broker deal that didn't happen. He should be proud of the fact that he made good with his crew and hooked them up and has good standing on that angle there, and here.
And, obviously, you misread my statement a bit and judged me and the entire world I live in. I have zero reason to believe there wasn't something in this deal for geck outside of hooking his buds up. Even if it was a net of 1oz up. I point folks that ask where to go all the time for stuff like this. If they follow up that's fine, but I don't go and buy vehicles and hold onto them when one of my friends or co-workers says they are looking for a used car or truck and then expect them to buy from me because I have 'ins' outside of the big dealerships. I send them to my hookups and make a call saying so and so is looking for something and I gave them a headsup.
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway.
<< <i>Agree about the confusing part. I read the OP as "I wanted to buy 400 oz., talked some co-workers into going in on half of it because I couldn't cash flow all 400 oz, seller didn't have the 400 oz., so when the deal went bad, to save face with my co-workers I took 200 oz. of my own and sold them to said co-workers". Thus my response earlier. Where have I erred in my interpretation? >>
A co-worker had asked me previously (last month) to let him know if I found any decent silver deals as he was ready to buy some. After asking Tee how many bars he had (he said 400), I then told my buddy at work. Three others also wanted in as my buddy and I talked about the silver on/about March 4th. I told them that 400oz was available, but I could only do 200oz. The other 4 guys decided on 50oz each, so I told them I needed the cash by March 9th, as I was gonna buy on the 10th. So now all 4 guys commit to 50oz each, and Tee ASSURES me he has 400oz off to the side for me. On March 9th, I bring 200 oz of my personal Engelhards to work, and deliver the bars and collect the cash. The morning of March 10th, I message Tee that im ready with the cash as agreed to, and he flakes out.
Anyone who is attempting to turn this into my fault is a complete moron, or has an agenda. If everyone sticks to their word, then everyone is happy. Of the 6 people involved in this transaction, just a single person flaked....and he has come here to not only admit to it, but also apologize for it. Its nice to see you show your true colors though telephoto. Please keep the antagonizing up so more people can see you for what you really are. >>
The bolded part is the only reason I made my initial post as it seemed defensive when it didn't need to be as a response to a question. That's all. Too much sales, management, analysis, and mediation in my life and career I suppose.
That's it, I'm done, hope I didn't piss off too many of you guys.
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway. >>
My "net" was zero. I charged my buds with the same price Tee quoted me. I dont work for free either, but helping out my co-workers is not work in my eyes. Perhaps you strive to profit from anything you do in life....and thats fine....but I dont profit off the people I work with for 24 hours at a time. I simply used my personal silver as a matter of convienence in helping my co-workers to aquire their silver under the full expectation that the silver would be replaced the very next morning. Rather than collect their money....meet Tee....then track those guys down for delivery, I decided it was far easier to just front them my silver......I took Tee135 for his word....had no reason to think he was not being honest with me.
Now, having said all that.....will I ever "front" my own stash again in a similar fashion? Of course not. Its simply not worth the hassles when things go south. In any future help I give my buds, it will be money 1st, then product AFTER I have aquired it. Lesson learned.
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway. >>
My "net" was zero. I charged my buds with the same price Tee quoted me. I dont work for free either, but helping out my co-workers is not work in my eyes. Perhaps you strive to profit from anything you do in life....and thats fine....but I dont profit off the people I work with for 24 hours at a time. I simply used my personal silver as a matter of convienence in helping my co-workers to aquire their silver under the full expectation that the silver would be replaced the very next morning. Rather than collect their money....meet Tee....then track those guys down for delivery, I decided it was far easier to just front them my silver......I took Tee135 for his word....had no reason to think he was not being honest with me.
Now, having said all that.....will I ever "front" my own stash again in a similar fashion? Of course not. Its simply not worth the hassles when things go south. In any future help I give my buds, it will be money 1st, then product AFTER I have aquired it. Lesson learned. >>
You were not clear with you not making a cent off brokering initially, just that your buds wanted you to keep an eye out, which you did and then went some further.
Returning favors and hookups for friends and family is not working for free, it's part of what friends do to keep good friends and family with the normal give and take in the relationships. Karma is earned buddy, folks were just questioning what was up and why you moved first is all.
If working for that good karma for the people I keep close in life is "striving to profit from anything I do in life", well that's you're definition and judgement. Good day.
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway. >>
My "net" was zero. I charged my buds with the same price Tee quoted me. I dont work for free either, but helping out my co-workers is not work in my eyes. Perhaps you strive to profit from anything you do in life....and thats fine....but I dont profit off the people I work with for 24 hours at a time. I simply used my personal silver as a matter of convienence in helping my co-workers to aquire their silver under the full expectation that the silver would be replaced the very next morning. Rather than collect their money....meet Tee....then track those guys down for delivery, I decided it was far easier to just front them my silver......I took Tee135 for his word....had no reason to think he was not being honest with me.
Now, having said all that.....will I ever "front" my own stash again in a similar fashion? Of course not. Its simply not worth the hassles when things go south. In any future help I give my buds, it will be money 1st, then product AFTER I have aquired it. Lesson learned. >>
*****You were not clear with you not making a cent off brokering initially*******, just that your buds wanted you to keep an eye out, which you did and then went some further.
Returning favors and hookups for friends and family is not working for free, it's part of what friends do to keep good friends and family with the normal give and take in the relationships. Karma is earned buddy, folks were just questioning what was up and why you moved first is all.
If working for that good karma for the people I keep close in life is "striving to profit from anything I do in life", well that's you're definition and judgement. Good day. >>
I made it crystal clear on page 1 of this thread......3rd from last post......but of course, im sure you didnt read the entire thread before ASSuming that I was making a few bucks for my troubles, huh? Good day.
I made it crystal clear on page 1 of this thread......3rd from last post......but of course, im sure you didnt read the entire thread before ASSuming that I was making a few bucks for my troubles, huh? Good day. >>
Jesus, am I on the sportscard side getting called an ass, seriously????? Yes I read the whole thing.
You were going to add to your stack, double it in fact, which sounds like a 200oz up both physically and mentally that didn't happen, and you got peeved and are taking that out on anybody that says they would have waited to get the product first, calling them morons or asses or whatever.
I made it crystal clear on page 1 of this thread......3rd from last post......but of course, im sure you didnt read the entire thread before ASSuming that I was making a few bucks for my troubles, huh? Good day. >>
Jesus, am I on the sportscard side getting called an ass, seriously????? Yes I read the whole thing.
You were going to add to your stack, double it in fact, which sounds like a 200oz up both physically and mentally that didn't happen, and you got peeved and are taking that out on anybody that says they would have waited to get the product first, calling them morons or asses or whatever.
drbuster, ass-quire >>
If in fact you DID read the whole thing....as you just made claim.....then please tell me what post #17 on page 1 says. So then, again....IF you are not lying.....and did read the whole thing....why would you ask if I was making a profit off my buddies? Makes no sense to me....perhaps you could clarify for me?
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway. >>
You didn't ask if there was a net, you said there had to be one. To quote your words:
"What was the net for you, had to be something,"
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Doing your buds a solid, comes back in spades every time. That's a net. In position to add 200 to your stack, that's a net. Nobody in this thread has gotten defensive or argumentative or disrespectful with you geck, why are you so hellbent.
I'm not your wife or kid or dog, speak to me as you want to be spoken to please. I asked a question that a couple folks didn't like because I put value on time spent helping people out, got lambasted for putting a value on doing 'solids', and still have shown you nothing but respect, despite the fact that you are losing mine.
If this were an in person conversation it would not even be anything other than 5 minutes of you telling what happened and bantering the ins and outs of it, that's it.
So, let me get this strait. If I take on partners to be able to afford a purchase on the BST and the BST seller fails to deliver, he should contribute to a charity of my choosing to compensate me If I choose to make my partners whole with my personal stash instead of just giving them back their money? Maybe we should get Don Willis to etch this in the forum "rule book."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Of course if silver takes a header and falls $3-$10, those buds won't be thinking you did them much of a "solid." That's why I try not to set up deals for friends or family, just refer them to someone else who can do them a "solid."
Back during the 1988 coin market boom I got my best friend into some gem type coins at wholesale levels (ie my exact cost). Thought I was doing him a "solid." Later on it came back to haunt me when the market went south and he didn't sell. At some point he suggested I cheated him and it ended up ruining our relationship. No more solids for me.
A co-worker had asked me previously (last month) to let him know if I found any decent silver deals as he was ready to buy some. After asking Tee how many bars he had (he said 400), I then told my buddy at work. Three others also wanted in as my buddy and I talked about the silver on/about March 4th. I told them that 400oz was available, but I could only do 200oz. The other 4 guys decided on 50oz each, so I told them I needed the cash by March 9th, as I was gonna buy on the 10th. So now all 4 guys commit to 50oz each, and Tee ASSURES me he has 400oz off to the side for me. On March 9th, I bring 200 oz of my personal Engelhards to work, and deliver the bars and collect the cash. The morning of March 10th, I message Tee that im ready with the cash as agreed to, and he flakes out.
Anyone who is attempting to turn this into my fault is a complete moron, or has an agenda. If everyone sticks to their word, then everyone is happy. Of the 6 people involved in this transaction, just a single person flaked....and he has come here to not only admit to it, but also apologize for it. Its nice to see you show your true colors though telephoto. Please keep the antagonizing up so more people can see you for what you really are.
Now...why couldn't you have put all that first paragraph into the OP, rather than the somewhat ambiguous version that was posted? No need to get defensive. My post was merely a request for clarification. Now you've clarified it. Thank you. I'll ignore the "true colors" comment as you thought that I was trying to make this your fault. I wasn't.
That said I feel constrained to point out something. You could have simply returned your friends' money and told them the deal fell through...they would have likely understood...but frankly it was your choice to front them silver out of your personal stash so imo although Tee is clearly at fault here for not delivering, I think it rather unfair to dump that on his shoulders as well.
Edit to add: no one forced you to buy Sunshines either. You could have waited for Engs to come along at a friendly price...like today, for instance. So the extra whine about "settling" for Sunshines doesn't cut any ice imo.
you're the wheeler dealer around these parts, you would know-
I need some advice---does your accountant use FIFO or LIFO on your transactions?
Your 200 bars out the door represent a heck of a tax liability in your top tier bracket. How do you account for the gain? That has to be at least a $1000 hit on the 200 bars. That's 30 bars gross just to pay the gain. And we're not talkin net on those bars either.
<< <i>Of course if silver takes a header and falls $3-$10, those buds won't be thinking you did them much of a "solid." That's why I try not to set up deals for friends or family, just refer them to someone else who can do them a "solid."
Back during the 1988 coin market boom I got my best friend into some gem type coins at wholesale levels (ie my exact cost). Thought I was doing him a "solid." Later on it came back to haunt me when the market went south and he didn't sell. At some point he suggested I cheated him and it ended up ruining our relationship. No more solids for me.
roadrunner >>
Right you are.... me too, been there done that...
If it had been me... I'd have tried to buy 200 instead of 400 and just kept my 200...
Just for those who may have not read the whole thread...
<<Thursday March 10, 2011 9:35 AM
I wont name names, but I had a 400oz silver deal lined up for today, and of course, the holder of the silver renegged. I will never again give a financial commitment to such a large purchase with a forum member who I havent done business with in the past. >>
I found the name of your seller mentioned several times...by you.
Furthermore...WTH do mean by....OF COURSE?---were you anticipating a sour deal?
Phil, you're basically a good guy....but do you revel in threads like this? You could have just told your seller..."HEY GUY...200 is all I can handle right now". Wouldn't have been any problem if you did that..and you'd actually have been better off and so would your buds. Do you enjoy airing your dirty laundry? Sure seems so.
edit: cause I forgot---Phil, 50% of the failure of this transaction lays on your shoulders. If you see that , you will have learned from it. If you think that I am just criticizing you...you haven't learned anything.
<< <i>Agree about the confusing part. I read the OP as "I wanted to buy 400 oz., talked some co-workers into going in on half of it because I couldn't cash flow all 400 oz, seller didn't have the 400 oz., so when the deal went bad, to save face with my co-workers I took 200 oz. of my own and sold them to said co-workers". Thus my response earlier. Where have I erred in my interpretation? >>
A co-worker had asked me previously (last month) to let him know if I found any decent silver deals as he was ready to buy some. After asking Tee how many bars he had (he said 400), I then told my buddy at work. Three others also wanted in as my buddy and I talked about the silver on/about March 4th. I told them that 400oz was available, but I could only do 200oz. The other 4 guys decided on 50oz each, so I told them I needed the cash by March 9th, as I was gonna buy on the 10th. So now all 4 guys commit to 50oz each, and Tee ASSURES me he has 400oz off to the side for me. On March 9th, I bring 200 oz of my personal Engelhards to work, and deliver the bars and collect the cash. The morning of March 10th, I message Tee that im ready with the cash as agreed to, and he flakes out.
Anyone who is attempting to turn this into my fault is a complete moron, or has an agenda. If everyone sticks to their word, then everyone is happy. Of the 6 people involved in this transaction, just a single person flaked....and he has come here to not only admit to it, but also apologize for it. Its nice to see you show your true colors though telephoto. Please keep the antagonizing up so more people can see you for what you really are. >>
The bolded part is the only reason I made my initial post as it seemed defensive when it didn't need to be as a response to a question. That's all. Too much sales, management, analysis, and mediation in my life and career I suppose.
That's it, I'm done, hope I didn't piss off too many of you guys. >>
Heck no Buster, always enjoy your posts and the deals we have done also. Dont let the snivelers get you down-------------------------------BigE
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
you're the wheeler dealer around these parts, you would know-
I need some advice---does your accountant use FIFO or LIFO on your transactions?
Your 200 bars out the door represent a heck of a tax liability in your top tier bracket. How do you account for the gain? That has to be at least a $1000 hit on the 200 bars. That's 30 bars gross just to pay the gain. And we're not talkin net on those bars either. >>
You arent very bright, are you? Only the PROFIT is taxed. I have receipts that show my cost basis on that 200oz as being $33/oz. Sold at $37. Thats a PROFIT of $800....@ 20% capital gains, I owe the IRS a whopping $160 when I file my taxes in 2012. So, to recap....you are completely wrong.
Um, I could be entirely wrong about this - but I think that my accountant keeps telling me that the gain on this type of transaction is taxed at my marginal tax rate as ordinary income, and not at the capital gains rate.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Um, I could be entirely wrong about this - but I think that my accountant keeps telling me that the gain on this type of transaction is taxed at my marginal tax rate as ordinary income, and not at the capital gains rate. >>
Depends on how you file (Schedule C = Marginal tax rate + self employement tax) and whether you claim it as a collectible (28%, gray area).
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
You arent very bright, are you? Only the PROFIT is taxed. I have receipts that show my cost basis on that 200oz as being $33/oz. Sold at $37. Thats a PROFIT of $800....@ 20% capital gains, I owe the IRS a whopping $160 when I file my taxes in 2012. So, to recap....you are completely wrong.
But wait... I thought you said you weren't making any profit on this sale to your buddies...
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Because there are a few miserable, antagonistic idiots here Tom who enjoy getting a rise out of people. I know their type well. They hate life so much that they arent happy unless they are actively trying to ruin someone else's day as well.
<< <i>You arent very bright, are you? Only the PROFIT is taxed. I have receipts that show my cost basis on that 200oz as being $33/oz. Sold at $37. Thats a PROFIT of $800....@ 20% capital gains, I owe the IRS a whopping $160 when I file my taxes in 2012. So, to recap....you are completely wrong.
But wait... I thought you said you weren't making any profit on this sale to your buddies... >>
You make a valid point - It was also stated the price to the buds was the same as Tee was charging $1.69/oz profit - the statement above shows a $4.00/oz profit. Confusing.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I hadn't realized til just now how this thread had turned to make Phil be the bad guy now because i thought it had become old news. What a joke. Having done a few dealings with Phil and actually meeting face to face i can, and will say, that Phil is a stand up guy. How this has gotten twisted around is the result of people with too much time on their hands and living in the past. We learned from the past...move on now that you're wiser from Phils bad transaction with Alain.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Hmm. Since the thread's still here, one final comment. I don't think anyone's living in the past or trying to make OP the bad guy; it's just that the more OP said, the more questions arose. Let's review for a minute. First OP's not going to name names, then a few posts later- he names names. Then OP flatly states he didn't make any money on his buddies... but later admits he made $800 on the deal. (And OP has every right to make a buck- but why not be straight about it?) Then there's the implied nobility of having to sacrifice Engs for Sunshines-but the profit more than covers any difference, if there is indeed any. So the martyr factor seems rather minimal here. And when someone wants to call any inconsistencies into question, OP gets defensive, angry, and then dismissive...
On the other hand, although clearly he made a big mistake- Alain manned up and came here despite being outed, insulted and disrespected on this thread...and still offered to make some sort of amends- without any drama. Kudos to him.
There is a difference between taking blame and accepting responsibility. Alain, it seems, did both. OP did neither. Let the readers draw their own conclusions.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
When new info comes to light almost every few days regarding this 'dealer', I dont know if Id call this thread beating a dead horse.
As long as this 'dealer' is lying to potential buyers and trying to 'sell' or 'scam' posters here, I think all relevant information in these few threads is vital for any and all forum members trying to buy from the BST.
Im new, but reading these threads makes me very cautious in looking towards the BST for purchases.
<< <i>....... Im new, but reading these threads makes me very cautious in looking towards the BST for purchases. >>
Don't write off the BST too quickly Cap'n. Most of the folks are really stand-up characters and even those involved as principles in this one are at least here to be engaged. Just be sure to have a clear understanding of each party's responsibilities and do your part immediately. Communication is important. Exchange phone numbers and chat a few minutes. You'll get a pretty good feel for the other person. Scammers are not really all that common but as with elsewhere in life, they do exist. Do indeed be cautious but there is a lot of great stuff here. ----- Craigslist however is another matter. Boy, there ARE some stinkers on that place!
Many, many perfect transactions with other members. Ask please.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I've tried to avoid commenting on these type of threads across the board, and I've seen a bunch in 10 years.
Geck, sometimes the middle man get's burned. That sometimes is only when the middle man moves first with funds or product.
You sold your coworkers 200oz, they got what they wanted at the price+ last week. I don't see why you didn't just put the deal together and deliver as delivered to you. How hard would it have been to say "hey I might have a guy lined up to make this happen at such and such a price to YOU" and go from there. Are you trying to play your coworkers? What was the net for you, had to be something, which makes me think this wasn't a friendly deal from your standpoint at all if you wouldn't just point your buds to 200oz from tee w/o profit...? Yes time is worth something, but an ultimate what, 30-60 minutes on the board here that you hang out at anyway...
Yes the deal commit was hosed, and that sucks, but you jumped the gun and speculated yourself, took your 'hit' (if you can call it that) and are not taking much responsibility for it. You sold 200 engs for spot+ right, delivered, and the issue is your replacement line up had a problem. You say you have replacement all but in possession now, and silver is down from last week, so how much were you making or losing from your work buds...?
Just asking as you're getting defensive with folks not really 100% siding with you because you didn't get your cut right, when you jumped the gun. >>
On what basis do you make the accusation that he was making a "net" from his co-workers? That is nowhere in evidence. Obviously you have never been in a position where you could trust your co-workers, or they could trust you.
There are places and professions in the world where you can trust your co-workers, and where you cut your friends in on deals at no benefit to yourself just because they are your friends.
I think you own Phil an apology.
TD >>
No I don't think I do, and I won't, as I simply asked what the out was if there was one as that's how it could be interpretted. If it was a wash, with an apology from Tee and a make-good token already, as a net of inconvenience to Geck then oh well, no reason to get bent. Obviously he felt he got burned a bit, I just pointed out a question or 2 on the angle that other folks chimed in on a bit that touched a nerve about him making the first move.
True friends would understand it not going down, and true friends wouldn't have been in a position to take anything more than gecks' time. He delivered, and did his buds a favor at that, I simply asked why he was getting peeved with folks that didn't see eye to eye with him on this when he moved first with product on a broker deal that didn't happen. He should be proud of the fact that he made good with his crew and hooked them up and has good standing on that angle there, and here.
And, obviously, you misread my statement a bit and judged me and the entire world I live in. I have zero reason to believe there wasn't something in this deal for geck outside of hooking his buds up. Even if it was a net of 1oz up. I point folks that ask where to go all the time for stuff like this. If they follow up that's fine, but I don't go and buy vehicles and hold onto them when one of my friends or co-workers says they are looking for a used car or truck and then expect them to buy from me because I have 'ins' outside of the big dealerships. I send them to my hookups and make a call saying so and so is looking for something and I gave them a headsup.
Just saying.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I think you own Phil an apology. >>
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway.
<< <i>
<< <i>Agree about the confusing part. I read the OP as "I wanted to buy 400 oz., talked some co-workers into going in on half of it because I couldn't cash flow all 400 oz, seller didn't have the 400 oz., so when the deal went bad, to save face with my co-workers I took 200 oz. of my own and sold them to said co-workers". Thus my response earlier. Where have I erred in my interpretation? >>
A co-worker had asked me previously (last month) to let him know if I found any decent silver deals as he was ready to buy some. After asking Tee how many bars he had (he said 400), I then told my buddy at work. Three others also wanted in as my buddy and I talked about the silver on/about March 4th. I told them that 400oz was available, but I could only do 200oz. The other 4 guys decided on 50oz each, so I told them I needed the cash by March 9th, as I was gonna buy on the 10th. So now all 4 guys commit to 50oz each, and Tee ASSURES me he has 400oz off to the side for me. On March 9th, I bring 200 oz of my personal Engelhards to work, and deliver the bars and collect the cash. The morning of March 10th, I message Tee that im ready with the cash as agreed to, and he flakes out.
Anyone who is attempting to turn this into my fault is a complete moron, or has an agenda. If everyone sticks to their word, then everyone is happy. Of the 6 people involved in this transaction, just a single person flaked....and he has come here to not only admit to it, but also apologize for it. Its nice to see you show your true colors though telephoto. Please keep the antagonizing up so more people can see you for what you really are.
The bolded part is the only reason I made my initial post as it seemed defensive when it didn't need to be as a response to a question. That's all. Too much sales, management, analysis, and mediation in my life and career I suppose.
That's it, I'm done, hope I didn't piss off too many of you guys.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I think you own Phil an apology. >>
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway. >>
My "net" was zero. I charged my buds with the same price Tee quoted me. I dont work for free either, but helping out my co-workers is not work in my eyes. Perhaps you strive to profit from anything you do in life....and thats fine....but I dont profit off the people I work with for 24 hours at a time. I simply used my personal silver as a matter of convienence in helping my co-workers to aquire their silver under the full expectation that the silver would be replaced the very next morning. Rather than collect their money....meet Tee....then track those guys down for delivery, I decided it was far easier to just front them my silver......I took Tee135 for his word....had no reason to think he was not being honest with me.
Now, having said all that.....will I ever "front" my own stash again in a similar fashion? Of course not. Its simply not worth the hassles when things go south. In any future help I give my buds, it will be money 1st, then product AFTER I have aquired it. Lesson learned.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I think you own Phil an apology. >>
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway. >>
My "net" was zero. I charged my buds with the same price Tee quoted me. I dont work for free either, but helping out my co-workers is not work in my eyes. Perhaps you strive to profit from anything you do in life....and thats fine....but I dont profit off the people I work with for 24 hours at a time. I simply used my personal silver as a matter of convienence in helping my co-workers to aquire their silver under the full expectation that the silver would be replaced the very next morning. Rather than collect their money....meet Tee....then track those guys down for delivery, I decided it was far easier to just front them my silver......I took Tee135 for his word....had no reason to think he was not being honest with me.
Now, having said all that.....will I ever "front" my own stash again in a similar fashion? Of course not. Its simply not worth the hassles when things go south. In any future help I give my buds, it will be money 1st, then product AFTER I have aquired it. Lesson learned. >>
You were not clear with you not making a cent off brokering initially, just that your buds wanted you to keep an eye out, which you did and then went some further.
Returning favors and hookups for friends and family is not working for free, it's part of what friends do to keep good friends and family with the normal give and take in the relationships. Karma is earned buddy, folks were just questioning what was up and why you moved first is all.
If working for that good karma for the people I keep close in life is "striving to profit from anything I do in life", well that's you're definition and judgement. Good day.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I think you own Phil an apology. >>
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway. >>
My "net" was zero. I charged my buds with the same price Tee quoted me. I dont work for free either, but helping out my co-workers is not work in my eyes. Perhaps you strive to profit from anything you do in life....and thats fine....but I dont profit off the people I work with for 24 hours at a time. I simply used my personal silver as a matter of convienence in helping my co-workers to aquire their silver under the full expectation that the silver would be replaced the very next morning. Rather than collect their money....meet Tee....then track those guys down for delivery, I decided it was far easier to just front them my silver......I took Tee135 for his word....had no reason to think he was not being honest with me.
Now, having said all that.....will I ever "front" my own stash again in a similar fashion? Of course not. Its simply not worth the hassles when things go south. In any future help I give my buds, it will be money 1st, then product AFTER I have aquired it. Lesson learned. >>
*****You were not clear with you not making a cent off brokering initially*******, just that your buds wanted you to keep an eye out, which you did and then went some further.
Returning favors and hookups for friends and family is not working for free, it's part of what friends do to keep good friends and family with the normal give and take in the relationships. Karma is earned buddy, folks were just questioning what was up and why you moved first is all.
If working for that good karma for the people I keep close in life is "striving to profit from anything I do in life", well that's you're definition and judgement. Good day. >>
I made it crystal clear on page 1 of this thread......3rd from last post......but of course, im sure you didnt read the entire thread before ASSuming that I was making a few bucks for my troubles, huh? Good day.
<< <i>
I made it crystal clear on page 1 of this thread......3rd from last post......but of course, im sure you didnt read the entire thread before ASSuming that I was making a few bucks for my troubles, huh? Good day. >>
Jesus, am I on the sportscard side getting called an ass, seriously????? Yes I read the whole thing.
You were going to add to your stack, double it in fact, which sounds like a 200oz up both physically and mentally that didn't happen, and you got peeved and are taking that out on anybody that says they would have waited to get the product first, calling them morons or asses or whatever.
drbuster, ass-quire
<< <i>
<< <i>
I made it crystal clear on page 1 of this thread......3rd from last post......but of course, im sure you didnt read the entire thread before ASSuming that I was making a few bucks for my troubles, huh? Good day. >>
Jesus, am I on the sportscard side getting called an ass, seriously????? Yes I read the whole thing.
You were going to add to your stack, double it in fact, which sounds like a 200oz up both physically and mentally that didn't happen, and you got peeved and are taking that out on anybody that says they would have waited to get the product first, calling them morons or asses or whatever.
drbuster, ass-quire >>
If in fact you DID read the whole thing....as you just made claim.....then please tell me what post #17 on page 1 says. So then, again....IF you are not lying.....and did read the whole thing....why would you ask if I was making a profit off my buddies? Makes no sense to me....perhaps you could clarify for me?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I think you own Phil an apology. >>
Whole heartedly agree. I never try to profit from friends / coworkers. Not that everyone has the same beliefs...but don't sling undue mud. >>
Again, I didn't sling mud, I asked if there was a net on the deal, as that kind of movement does involve time and commitment, and asked what it was. Why move first and go out on 200engs right at that moment for nothing other than good faith to your buds? I don't work for free, and I wouldn't expect anybody here to broker something for free that actually required there own personal funds or stash or hands-on with a 15k+ deal.
Good buds/coworkers would have understood with a 'hey we couldn't get that thing worked out just yet but I'm working on it' and gone from there. All of mine would anyway. >>
You didn't ask if there was a net, you said there had to be one. To quote your words:
"What was the net for you, had to be something,"
I'm not your wife or kid or dog, speak to me as you want to be spoken to please. I asked a question that a couple folks didn't like because I put value on time spent helping people out, got lambasted for putting a value on doing 'solids', and still have shown you nothing but respect, despite the fact that you are losing mine.
If this were an in person conversation it would not even be anything other than 5 minutes of you telling what happened and bantering the ins and outs of it, that's it.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Back during the 1988 coin market boom I got my best friend into some gem type coins at wholesale levels (ie my exact cost). Thought I was doing him a "solid." Later on it came back to haunt me when the market went south and he didn't sell. At some point he suggested I cheated him and it ended up ruining our relationship. No more solids for me.
roadrunner
Anyone who is attempting to turn this into my fault is a complete moron, or has an agenda. If everyone sticks to their word, then everyone is happy. Of the 6 people involved in this transaction, just a single person flaked....and he has come here to not only admit to it, but also apologize for it. Its nice to see you show your true colors though telephoto. Please keep the antagonizing up so more people can see you for what you really are.
Now...why couldn't you have put all that first paragraph into the OP, rather than the somewhat ambiguous version that was posted? No need to get defensive. My post was merely a request for clarification. Now you've clarified it. Thank you. I'll ignore the "true colors" comment as you thought that I was trying to make this your fault. I wasn't.
That said I feel constrained to point out something. You could have simply returned your friends' money and told them the deal fell through...they would have likely understood...but frankly it was your choice to front them silver out of your personal stash so imo although Tee is clearly at fault here for not delivering, I think it rather unfair to dump that on his shoulders as well.
Edit to add: no one forced you to buy Sunshines either. You could have waited for Engs to come along at a friendly price...like today, for instance. So the extra whine about "settling" for Sunshines doesn't cut any ice imo.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
or
Can you claim a wash sale with physical silver?
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
you're the wheeler dealer around these parts, you would know-
I need some advice---does your accountant use FIFO or LIFO on your transactions?
Your 200 bars out the door represent a heck of a tax liability in your top tier bracket. How do you account for the gain? That has to be at least a $1000 hit on the 200 bars. That's 30 bars gross just to pay the gain. And we're not talkin net on those bars either.
<< <i>Of course if silver takes a header and falls $3-$10, those buds won't be thinking you did them much of a "solid." That's why I try not to set up deals for friends or family, just refer them to someone else who can do them a "solid."
Back during the 1988 coin market boom I got my best friend into some gem type coins at wholesale levels (ie my exact cost). Thought I was doing him a "solid." Later on it came back to haunt me when the market went south and he didn't sell. At some point he suggested I cheated him and it ended up ruining our relationship. No more solids for me.
roadrunner >>
Right you are.... me too, been there done that...
If it had been me... I'd have tried to buy 200 instead of 400 and just kept my 200...
...but that would have been logical...establishing that it was a real, live deal before dragging others into the mix...and what fun would that be?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
because he tends to get peeved when others "just don't get it"
for example, if you don't think America is bankrupt, nor is the dollar "collapsing", nor is gold the only viable investment in the world,
then you have have "drank the kool-aid" and have your "head in the sand", among other irritating traits.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<<Thursday March 10, 2011 9:35 AM
I wont name names, but I had a 400oz silver deal lined up for today, and of course, the holder of the silver renegged. I will never again give a financial commitment to such a large purchase with a forum member who I havent done business with in the past. >>
I found the name of your seller mentioned several times...by you.
Furthermore...WTH do mean by....OF COURSE?---were you anticipating a sour deal?
Phil, you're basically a good guy....but do you revel in threads like this? You could have just told your seller..."HEY GUY...200 is all I can handle right now". Wouldn't have been any problem if you did that..and you'd actually have been better off and so would your buds. Do you enjoy airing your dirty laundry? Sure seems so.
edit: cause I forgot---Phil, 50% of the failure of this transaction lays on your shoulders. If you see that , you will have learned from it. If you think that I am just criticizing you...you haven't learned anything.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Agree about the confusing part. I read the OP as "I wanted to buy 400 oz., talked some co-workers into going in on half of it because I couldn't cash flow all 400 oz, seller didn't have the 400 oz., so when the deal went bad, to save face with my co-workers I took 200 oz. of my own and sold them to said co-workers". Thus my response earlier. Where have I erred in my interpretation? >>
A co-worker had asked me previously (last month) to let him know if I found any decent silver deals as he was ready to buy some. After asking Tee how many bars he had (he said 400), I then told my buddy at work. Three others also wanted in as my buddy and I talked about the silver on/about March 4th. I told them that 400oz was available, but I could only do 200oz. The other 4 guys decided on 50oz each, so I told them I needed the cash by March 9th, as I was gonna buy on the 10th. So now all 4 guys commit to 50oz each, and Tee ASSURES me he has 400oz off to the side for me. On March 9th, I bring 200 oz of my personal Engelhards to work, and deliver the bars and collect the cash. The morning of March 10th, I message Tee that im ready with the cash as agreed to, and he flakes out.
Anyone who is attempting to turn this into my fault is a complete moron, or has an agenda. If everyone sticks to their word, then everyone is happy. Of the 6 people involved in this transaction, just a single person flaked....and he has come here to not only admit to it, but also apologize for it. Its nice to see you show your true colors though telephoto. Please keep the antagonizing up so more people can see you for what you really are.
The bolded part is the only reason I made my initial post as it seemed defensive when it didn't need to be as a response to a question. That's all. Too much sales, management, analysis, and mediation in my life and career I suppose.
That's it, I'm done, hope I didn't piss off too many of you guys. >>
Heck no Buster, always enjoy your posts and the deals we have done also. Dont let the snivelers get you down
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Phil,
you're the wheeler dealer around these parts, you would know-
I need some advice---does your accountant use FIFO or LIFO on your transactions?
Your 200 bars out the door represent a heck of a tax liability in your top tier bracket. How do you account for the gain? That has to be at least a $1000 hit on the 200 bars. That's 30 bars gross just to pay the gain. And we're not talkin net on those bars either. >>
You arent very bright, are you? Only the PROFIT is taxed. I have receipts that show my cost basis on that 200oz as being $33/oz. Sold at $37. Thats a PROFIT of $800....@ 20% capital gains, I owe the IRS a whopping $160 when I file my taxes in 2012. So, to recap....you are completely wrong.
I knew it would happen.
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
<< <i>Um, I could be entirely wrong about this - but I think that my accountant keeps telling me that the gain on this type of transaction is taxed at my marginal tax rate as ordinary income, and not at the capital gains rate. >>
Depends on how you file (Schedule C = Marginal tax rate + self employement tax) and whether you claim it as a collectible (28%, gray area).
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
But wait... I thought you said you weren't making any profit on this sale to your buddies...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Is this thread STILL ACTIVE? >>
WHY????????
<< <i>
<< <i>Is this thread STILL ACTIVE? >>
WHY???????? >>
Because there are a few miserable, antagonistic idiots here Tom who enjoy getting a rise out of people. I know their type well. They hate life so much that they arent happy unless they are actively trying to ruin someone else's day as well.
<< <i>You arent very bright, are you? Only the PROFIT is taxed. I have receipts that show my cost basis on that 200oz as being $33/oz. Sold at $37. Thats a PROFIT of $800....@ 20% capital gains, I owe the IRS a whopping $160 when I file my taxes in 2012. So, to recap....you are completely wrong.
But wait... I thought you said you weren't making any profit on this sale to your buddies... >>
You make a valid point - It was also stated the price to the buds was the same as Tee was charging $1.69/oz profit - the statement above shows a $4.00/oz profit. Confusing.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
+1
I hadn't realized til just now how this thread had turned to make Phil be the bad guy now because i thought it had become old news. What a joke. Having done a few dealings with Phil and actually meeting face to face i can, and will say, that Phil is a stand up guy. How this has gotten twisted around is the result of people with too much time on their hands and living in the past. We learned from the past...move on now that you're wiser from Phils bad transaction with Alain.
I don't think anyone's living in the past or trying to make OP the bad guy; it's just that the more OP said, the more questions arose.
Let's review for a minute.
First OP's not going to name names, then a few posts later- he names names.
Then OP flatly states he didn't make any money on his buddies... but later admits he made $800 on the deal. (And OP has every right to make a buck- but why not be straight about it?)
Then there's the implied nobility of having to sacrifice Engs for Sunshines-but the profit more than covers any difference, if there is indeed any. So the martyr factor seems rather minimal here.
And when someone wants to call any inconsistencies into question, OP gets defensive, angry, and then dismissive...
On the other hand, although clearly he made a big mistake- Alain manned up and came here despite being outed, insulted and disrespected on this thread...and still offered to make some sort of amends- without any drama.
Kudos to him.
There is a difference between taking blame and accepting responsibility. Alain, it seems, did both. OP did neither.
Let the readers draw their own conclusions.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
As long as this 'dealer' is lying to potential buyers and trying to 'sell' or 'scam' posters here, I think all relevant information in these few threads is vital for any and all forum members trying to buy from the BST.
Im new, but reading these threads makes me very cautious in looking towards the BST for purchases.
<< <i>.......
Im new, but reading these threads makes me very cautious in looking towards the BST for purchases. >>
Don't write off the BST too quickly Cap'n. Most of the folks are really stand-up characters and even those involved as principles in this one are at least here to be engaged. Just be sure to have a clear understanding of each party's responsibilities and do your part immediately. Communication is important. Exchange phone numbers and chat a few minutes. You'll get a pretty good feel for the other person. Scammers are not really all that common but as with elsewhere in life, they do exist. Do indeed be cautious but there is a lot of great stuff here.
-----
Craigslist however is another matter. Boy, there ARE some stinkers on that place!