Never again! Sour deal.
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
I wont name names, but I had a 400oz silver deal lined up for today, and of course, the holder of the silver renegged. I will never again give a financial commitment to such a large purchase with a forum member who I havent done business with in the past.
This deal has caused me to lose 200 oz of my own personal silver in my effort to make sure that I could uphold my end of the deal. Because I could only absorb half of the 400oz for myself, I got a few co-workers on board. They gave me the cash, I dipped into my personal stash to give them the silver with full expectations that the forum member here would make good on the deal.
Now....after 5-7 days of working out all the details.....with a CLEAR understanding we were to conduct the transaction today....the seller has developed medical problems prohibiting him from doing the deal. No mention of any of these problems over the past 7 days as silver climbed higher and higher......just notification on the morning of the deal.....oh, did I mention silver is down $1.20 today?
Seller has given me cell phone number with encouragement to call.....I have called.....4 times, always to voicemail. I even offered alternative solutions to make the deal happen.....such as on another date, but with today's price locked in....no reply. Actually thats a lie.....the seller has replied.....he has suggested that I buy the 400oz from another seller.....no, im NOT kidding!
If the seller wishes to debate/defend his action further, in this thread, im VERY willing!
Because the seller has renegged, I was forced to order through APMEX and aquire silver in the form that I dont prefer. This will be the last time I ever commit to a fellow board member again...unless we have had dealings and they are a stand-up person. This particular seller is anything BUT a stand-up person.
This deal has caused me to lose 200 oz of my own personal silver in my effort to make sure that I could uphold my end of the deal. Because I could only absorb half of the 400oz for myself, I got a few co-workers on board. They gave me the cash, I dipped into my personal stash to give them the silver with full expectations that the forum member here would make good on the deal.
Now....after 5-7 days of working out all the details.....with a CLEAR understanding we were to conduct the transaction today....the seller has developed medical problems prohibiting him from doing the deal. No mention of any of these problems over the past 7 days as silver climbed higher and higher......just notification on the morning of the deal.....oh, did I mention silver is down $1.20 today?
Seller has given me cell phone number with encouragement to call.....I have called.....4 times, always to voicemail. I even offered alternative solutions to make the deal happen.....such as on another date, but with today's price locked in....no reply. Actually thats a lie.....the seller has replied.....he has suggested that I buy the 400oz from another seller.....no, im NOT kidding!
If the seller wishes to debate/defend his action further, in this thread, im VERY willing!
Because the seller has renegged, I was forced to order through APMEX and aquire silver in the form that I dont prefer. This will be the last time I ever commit to a fellow board member again...unless we have had dealings and they are a stand-up person. This particular seller is anything BUT a stand-up person.
0
Comments
so the price was to be locked in today and not set in stone earlier?
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
After telling me the 400 bars were all ready to go, and on the side for me, this member just PM'd me and said he doesnt actually have the bars, and was unable to aquire them in time.
Horrible way to do business, and I tend to think this member should make reperations to the loss I have incurred. His lie about having the bars on hand ended up causing me to liquidate 200 bars that I would not have sold otherwise.
End of the world? Of course not. But a major PITA and certainly not the way to conduct business!
<< <i>so the price was to be locked in today and not set in stone earlier? >>
Correct. The only entity that was "locked" was the amount of silver....400 ounces worth of Engelhard 1oz bars @ $1.69 over spot price.
As it turns out, this member did not even have physical possession of the silver.....even though in a private message from March 4th he stated that he was putting the 400 bars aside for me.
Which member was it?
Long story short, he said he had 400 of the bars @ $1.69 over. I said I was interested pending funds. I then was able to secure the funds a few days later, so he said no problem...he would put 400 off to the side for me. I then sold 200 of my bars to some co-workers who wanted some silver with the expectation of using that money, and my money to buy all 400 bars today. This morning I message him asking if we are on, and he flakes....citing medical problems. After a few back and forth messages, I ask point blank..."do you have the 400 bars on hand?". Then comes the confession that he was unable to aquire the bars.
Lesson learned I guess.
Same concept, although FAR less severe consequences in this deal.
<< <i>Due to an update by another forum member that he too had a similar experience with this seller, its now pertinent to publicly release his identity in order to avoid any further problems. The seller is Tee135. I hope he comes along to comment here. Im very anxious to see how he handles this publicly. >>
thank you!
Your seller just redefined the 'You Sux Award'
CU Ancient Members badge member.
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<< <i>Covering the 200oz for your co-workers was a really cool thing to do G...
Your seller just redefined the 'You Sux Award' >>
Thanks, and I did it with absolutely no mark-up at all. I simply was under the assumption that I could take Tee135 for his word, and that those 200oz...along with another 200oz would have been added to my stack today.
I just bought a 7oz Engelhard from him and he delivered no problems. Not defending him here, but just a statement of fact.
Bstat
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Due to an update by another forum member that he too had a similar experience with this seller, its now pertinent to publicly release his identity in order to avoid any further problems. The seller is Tee135. I hope he comes along to comment here. Im very anxious to see how he handles this publicly. >>
Thank you for outing the bastage!
Fie upon him!
Fie!
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Not to long ago the guy selling on ebay, buying from an old man in a B&M store selling before he had it and
it came back to bite him in the ass. If I remember right he wanted us to feel sorry for him.
DO NOT SELL ANYTHING YOU DO NOT OWN ALREADY
Oops sorry for yelling but it urks me
<< <i>I would have allready been on a plane paying a visit to this guy for that amount of loss! >>
He actually lives about an hour from me, and the plan was to meet halfway today to conduct the deal. The "true" loss on my part is that I swapped 200 oz of Engelhard bars for 200 oz of Sunshine bars. Alot of people dont care what form their silver is in, but I do. Monetarily, im not out very much.....just whatever the difference in premiums would be when I go to sell Sunshine bars rather than Engelhard bars. Maybe a buck a bar im guessing? So I might be out $200 at most. However, the pure aggrivation is what bothers me the most. I bent over backwards to hold up my end of the deal, and he just so casually blows me off. Had Tee135 been honest about not having the metal, I would not have sold mine in order to honor my word. If Tee135 wants to make this situation right, he would offer me the cost difference that I mentioned above....or $200. Thats what I would do in this situation......but then again, I wouldnt be in this situation because I dont lie.
As a little tidbit, fellow member CaptHenway....a couple yrs ago....offered me a 1/2 oz gold panda that I needed for my set. I commited to buy the coin, and planned on sending a check within a few days. The very next day, my washing machine broke down, and I had to spend $500 on a new one. With my tail between my legs, I notified Tom that I now could not buy the coin, and immediately sent a check in the amount of 10% of what the coin was to cost me. I did that because im a man, not a little kid. There is a price for inconvienence, and I felt 10% was adequate. Tom got the check, and ripped it up. We have had a stellar buy/sell relationship ever since. Your reputation is all you have on these boards. Although I may be known as a "tough case" on ocassion, im at least a man of my word. If I agree to a deal with you, you better believe its a done deal.....and on the odd chance that something comes up, I will make it right.
I'm sorry you had such a crappy experience. This is a another warning to us all that we need to be aware of who we're dealing with. That is however not to say to throw the baby out with the bath water, there are plenty of good, decent, honest people to deal with on the forums (not that you're implying otherwise).
Perhaps you should post this on the BST and USCF as well. I recall recent threads on the BST looking for Tee135. Perhaps more deals gone bad.
-Andrew
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
<< <i>Sounds like more and more board members are selling before they have possession of items for sale.
Not to long ago the guy selling on ebay, buying from an old man in a B&M store selling before he had it and
it came back to bite him in the ass. If I remember right he wanted us to feel sorry for him.
DO NOT SELL ANYTHING YOU DO NOT OWN ALREADY
Oops sorry for yelling but it urks me
Amen, brother, amen!
I wonder if a lot of people are backing out of confirmed silver deals due to today's drop.
roadrunner
<< <i>Hi...I made a mistake and its my fault...I do not know what else to say... >>
Goodbye would be a good start.
Might I suggest you first explain what happened, and then what you're going to do to make it right?
-Andrew
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
Tee123, you should have been up front that you did not actually have the silver in hand and I am sure none of this would have happened.
It's never good when folks don't do what they say
they are going to do. Especially in PM deals.
But, the incidental/consequential damages are usually
not compensable.
If the items had been lost in the mail, the results for
the buyer would have been the same.
In general, unless a contract written/oral, can be shown
to contemplate consequential damages, there is no
chance of recovery.
Here, the seller - as far as we know - did not know that
his breaking the contract would result in Gecko suffering
the consequential loss he now claims. (It's a legit claim,
but not a compensable one.) As Gecko noted, he could
have avoided any damages by simply rescheduling the
delivery to his buyers OR he could have cancelled the
deal with his buyers; he might have "lost face," but that's
not compensable either. Gecko chose his remedy and it
was not the one that BEST mitigated his damages.
Gecko's chosen remedy was the proximate cause of his
damages.
The sufficient "punishment" for folks who renege on a
PM deal is, historically, not being able to do further deals
with folks who know about the breach.
....................................
UCC
§ 2-715. Buyer's Incidental and Consequential Damages.
(1) Incidental damages resulting from the seller's breach include expenses reasonably incurred in inspection, receipt, transportation and care and custody of goods rightfully rejected, any commercially reasonable charges, expenses or commissions in connection with effecting cover and any other reasonable expense incident to the delay or other breach.
(2) Consequential damages resulting from the seller's breach include
•(a) any loss resulting from general or particular requirements and needs of which the seller at the time of contracting had reason to know and which could not reasonably be prevented by cover or otherwise; and
•(b) injury to person or property proximately resulting from any breach of warranty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't go back to Silvertowne and ask for the silver I sold them a couple weeks ago at the same price I sold it to them, can I?
I knew it would happen.
Sorry about the bad deal. But I would be somewhat reluctant/cautious about engaging in business with a total stranger in a relatively large deal.
Being a forum member doesn't necessarily add much credibility.
Bruce
edited to add: Buyer didn't have money when deal was made, would have been a good time for seller to fess up he didn't have the silver.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I am sorry that it happened to a very nice guy like Phil (gecko109) though. I've done a few BST transactions with Phil and I can tell you that he is more than just a stand-up guy.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Maybe he works for The JP Morgan............MJ >>
Impossible, he apologized.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe he works for The JP Morgan............MJ >>
Impossible, he apologized. >>
Good point. I didn't see that
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I am again very sorry...I was wrong wrong wrong in speculating of the silver prices, I hope that somehow I can change everyone ideas about me...I am usually not this way, I guess I over extended myself...sales came in much to fast...I have had sales of 15k and many sales 1k-2k in value...all were delivered in a speedy manner...all were completed with the buyers 100% satisfaction...I am asking for a 2nd chance..I have learned and will certainly not let this happen again...I am asking in public for a 2nd chance, a chance to do what I enjoy so much...let me do it in a honest and honorable way!!!
alain,
<< <i>Tee135 has apologized both here in this thread and in private. Although Im still pissed that I just "lost" 200 of my favorite bars, im still big enough to accept a man's apology. We all bite off more than we can chew on ocassion.....every person here is guilty of that. I do feel burned, but in the big scope of things, I cant take this incident too seriously. Im blessed many times over with alot of good things in my life. This incident was simply a sour cherry in a bowl full of sweet ones. >>
Great move. It shows your character and forgiveness will make you healthier in the long run.
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