Hey guys I'm sorry........I've learned from my mistakes after being caught so red handed by you all......I really really promise this will never happen....bwhahaha sorry let me start again.....
Check out my eBay store for new listings, beauty Ventura just in!
<< <i>I made bad judgements recently on a few occasions. >>
Mike,
While I sincerely appreciate your honesty, I think it would be best that you're 100% transparent in regards to these "few occasions". For example, what other auctions did you bid on that are considered as 'shill bids' (ie you were the Seller or/and cosigner)? Additionally, did you pay Probstein the full price, including a buyer's premium, for your own card?
While I'm sure this process will suck *massive* donkey balls, the truth will set you free.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Additionally, did you pay Probstein the full price, including a buyer's premium, for your own card? >>
I'll let Mike answer that question, but this was an ebay auction, so there would not have been any buyer's premium. But I do like your line of questioning.
Maybe a better question would be - Did Mike even pay Rick at all or did Rick just mail the card back to Mike? If so, that answers another big question. And to what extent did Mike and Rick have prior agreement that Mike would be bidding on Mike's own items in Rick's auctions.
I'd like to add that my personal view of the act of shilling an auction, while somewhat shady, isn't that big of a deal to me. It's is far from the worst thing a guy can do. What I find truly repugnant here is that miconelegacy strategically targeted a CU member he was friendly with and intentionally ran the price up on him. There are some on these boards that don't care for me which is fine, but not once has the thought ever crossed my mind to screw over someone on these boards.
Now, I'm sure dpeck will chime in and take the high road by saying Mike made a mistake, should be forgiven, blah blah blah..... But that doesn't excuse his actions, because in the end after all of his holier than thou schtick about how he used cards to get through a tough time, how no one could understand what he's gone through, how he's happy to give advice on how to make money on modern rips, how thankful he is for everybody's sympathy, etc....., Mike is nothing more than a con artist trying to scheme a buck off the collectors on this board and then offering a pathetically forced "my bad" when he got caught.
Quotes from the SMR article about Mike and the message boards:
My story is about how a sportscard forum became a family," says Kelley. "How the compassion and support of the people I met through the message boards helped carry me and my family through the most difficult time of our lives. It’s about how, when you get beyond the pieces of printed cardboard we collect, there are real people there. Each one of us is a real person, with real lives and with real problems. It’s about how even in an unlikely place like a sportscard forum, people, most of whom have never even met, can come together and provide such support and inspiration to one another.
The sportscard forum became a life saver for me emotionally. The support was overwhelming. The forum really played a large role in my emotional stability, and I will forever be grateful for that. At night, when I would have the hardest time coping, I would go back and reread a lot of the posts. No one will ever know how much that support meant to me. The encouragement, support, and love that was shown to my family and me was beyond belief. It did so much to help me – and this, in turn, enabled me to care for my wife better, which then helped her live longer. It is incredible how a hobby – sportscards – and the message boards could bring such amazing people together.
Kind of rings a little hollow now, doesn't it? Clearly Mike is appreciative of all the support he gets on here, so much so that he's taken it upon himself to show his gratitude by milking its members when he got the opportunity.
<< <i>I'd like to add that my personal view of the act of shilling an auction, while somewhat shady, isn't that big of a deal to me. It's is far from the worst thing a guy can do. What I find truly repugnant here is that miconelegacy strategically targeted a CU member he was friendly with and intentionally ran the price up on him. There are some on these boards that don't care for me which is fine, but not once has the thought ever crossed my mind to screw over someone on these boards.
Now, I'm sure dpeck will chime in and take the high road by saying Mike made a mistake, should be forgiven, blah blah blah..... But that doesn't excuse his actions, because in the end after all of his holier than thou schtick about how he used cards to get through a tough time, how no one could understand what he's gone through, how he's happy to give advice on how to make money on modern rips, how thankful he is for everybody's sympathy, etc....., Mike is nothing more than a con artist trying to scheme a buck off the collectors on this board and then offering a pathetically forced "my bad" when he got caught.
Lee >>
I was with you 100% till this part. Not sure why shilling a board member is any worse than shilling a complete stranger, and I disagree that generally speaking it isn't a big deal. It's complete garbage. And I'd like a certain other "respected" member of these boards to answer CowboysFan79's question. I find it hard to believe that Mike would "risk" bidding on his own items in a Probstein auction without being certain that, short of detective work by Maurice and company, he would not be questioned.
I disagree that generally speaking it isn't a big deal.
I'm not saying it isn't a big deal, I guess I just think the industry has become so desensitized to shilling because it happens all the time. So to me, it's almost like I expected to get shilled when I bid on an auction. I agree with you that it doesn't make it acceptable, but it's far easier for me to conduct business by making the assumption that it's going to happen and to not be outraged when it does.
<< <i>I disagree that generally speaking it isn't a big deal.
I'm not saying it isn't a big deal, I guess I just think the industry has become so desensitized to shilling because it happens all the time. So to me, it's almost like I expected to get shilled when I bid on an auction. I agree with you that it doesn't make it acceptable, but it's far easier for me to conduct business by making the assumption that it's going to happen and to not be outraged when it does. >>
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Am I to understand that because there are a lot of dealers on this forum, the case is being made that shilling is acceptable basically because its just gonna happen anyway?
Do you guys have any clue about the very basics of customer service? Do you realize how a consumer reading this garbage might interpret things and respond?
<< <i>Am I to understand that because there are a lot of dealers on this forum, the case is being made that shilling is acceptable basically because its just gonna happen anyway?
Do you guys have any clue about the very basics of customer service? Do you realize how a consumer reading this garbage might interpret things and respond? >>
I think the overall feeling on the board is that shilling is totally unacceptable and that this recent revelation is very upsetting to many people. While it was suspected that shilling occurred in many of this popular Ebay seller's auctions (not by him but by the consigners), this is the first time that I can remember that someone has been caught red handed.
Hey guys, remind me, did we officially give that DBag of the year award away a few weeks ago to that guy that tripped himself up complaining on non payments.....I hope not.....
Why not have a high minimum bid and keep your integrity then? My integrity is worth the listing fees of a higher amount instead of starting at .99 cents
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
I think the overall feeling on the board is that shilling is totally unacceptable and that this recent revelation is very upsetting to many people. While it was suspected that shilling occurred in many of this popular Ebay seller's auctions (not by him but by the consigners), this is the first time that I can remember that someone has been caught red handed. >>
I dont know if this was before 2004 or not, but there was a very respected member here, his username was JRDolan. He was one of my favorite posters and I used to buy lots from him. He was caught red handed shilling his ebay auctions. He came and admitted what he had done with a long apology. He said he was leaving the boards because he was so embarrassed and was never heard from again. Now, I have no idea if he kept going on ebay and continued to do what he did....I dont know if he quit the hobby....and I dont know if he has had alts and has well hidden himself as a member over the years.
<< <i>Am I to understand that because there are a lot of dealers on this forum, the case is being made that shilling is acceptable basically because its just gonna happen anyway?
No. I would say many of them know they each shill, hoping they don't get caught. I'll wager others on this board are doing it, and many will now stop because one got caught.
<< <i>I think people are confusing shilling with safety bidding which is an acceptable practice as long as you are a respected member of the board. >>
That too was a stone cold outing. The Safety Bid thread really set the precedent for public call outs here. I think Maurice may have been involved with that one too.
I'm still baffled combining threads. I recall reading in the Vegas thread that the author was betting a spread of $100-400 at BJ and that was peanuts next to the amount being bet by the subject of this inquiry.
Its truly baffling since I spread $5-40 while COUNTING at DD BJ when I visit and expect to potentially lose $400-600 if I run bad. $100-400 I would expect to bring around $10K on a trip if I didn't want to encounter a very high risk of ruin(ie losing all my money in the first hour I play). Since that amount was apparently peanuts.....whats a guy doing shilling an auction thats $125?
I have no real stake here...this is more like a Jerry Springer thing, but just thought I'd throw this all in
For those of you who missed it, many of the questions posed here were answered by Rick (mostly) on the thread "Does This Activity Look Suspect?" that was subsequently locked and is currently on page 2. Its worth a read.
I am dissapointed to hear about this more from the standpoint that Mike may be yet another board member that I respected to leave this board as a result. I wouldn't go as far as some here saying he is a "scumbag" for this mistake. If he had a long history of shilling his auctions and sold resealed wax....that would be a whole different story.
<< <i>Just out of curiosity I checked the results from the Mile High auction.
The 1991 Desert Shield box sold for $5,097.96 with the buyers premium.
The 1972 Topps sold for $7,235.20 with the buyers premium.
The 1990 Frank Thomas sold for $1,504.16 with the buyers premium. >>
Strong price on the Desert Shield. You can get a PSA 10 Chipper from that set for $4,000 - $4,500. I wonder if the buyer of this box realizes he could have that card and $1,000 in his pocket for what he just dropped on all that potential. A bird in the hand....
<< <i>Interesting time to bump this thread sir. >>
Agreed, made me think twice, but I'll be contributing regardless. At this point it's about the kids and not questionable prior actions of their father.
There were a lot of things said in poor taste in that thread. Fascinating stuff. No one certainly was holding their tongue back then.
I came down as hard on Mike as anybody at the time, but now is hardly the time to rehash a scandalous 1.5 year old thread shortly after the person it was centered around has passed away. This thread was clearly bumped to shed him in a bad light which is a di*k thing to do under the circumstances.
For what it's worth, after this whole thing went down Mike pm'd me and we hashed some things out about this situation. He apologized, I accepted. I told him I would not bring up the issue on the boards again and wished him good luck on everything.
Comments
Check out my eBay store for new listings, beauty Ventura just in!
<< <i>I made bad judgements recently on a few occasions. >>
Mike,
While I sincerely appreciate your honesty, I think it would be best that you're 100% transparent in regards to these "few occasions". For example, what other auctions did you bid on that are considered as 'shill bids' (ie you were the Seller or/and cosigner)? Additionally, did you pay Probstein the full price, including a buyer's premium, for your own card?
While I'm sure this process will suck *massive* donkey balls, the truth will set you free.
<< <i>The devil gets us all. >>
Yes, the devil definitely seems to have the upper hand when it's convenient.
<< <i>
<< <i> >>
Additionally, did you pay Probstein the full price, including a buyer's premium, for your own card? >>
I'll let Mike answer that question, but this was an ebay auction, so there would not have been any buyer's premium. But I do like your line of questioning.
Maybe a better question would be - Did Mike even pay Rick at all or did Rick just mail the card back to Mike? If so, that answers another big question. And to what extent did Mike and Rick have prior agreement that Mike would be bidding on Mike's own items in Rick's auctions.
Now, I'm sure dpeck will chime in and take the high road by saying Mike made a mistake, should be forgiven, blah blah blah..... But that doesn't excuse his actions, because in the end after all of his holier than thou schtick about how he used cards to get through a tough time, how no one could understand what he's gone through, how he's happy to give advice on how to make money on modern rips, how thankful he is for everybody's sympathy, etc....., Mike is nothing more than a con artist trying to scheme a buck off the collectors on this board and then offering a pathetically forced "my bad" when he got caught.
Lee
My story is about how a sportscard forum became a family," says Kelley. "How the compassion and support of the people I met through the message boards helped carry me and my family through the most difficult time of our lives. It’s about how, when you get beyond the pieces of printed cardboard we collect, there are real people there. Each one of us is a real person, with real lives and with real problems. It’s about how even in an unlikely place like a sportscard forum, people, most of whom have never even met, can come together and provide such support and inspiration to one another.
The sportscard forum became a life saver for me emotionally. The support was overwhelming. The forum really played a large role in my emotional stability, and I will forever be grateful for that. At night, when I would have the hardest time coping, I would go back and reread a lot of the posts. No one will ever know how much that support meant to me. The encouragement, support, and love that was shown to my family and me was beyond belief. It did so much to help me – and this, in turn, enabled me to care for my wife better, which then helped her live longer. It is incredible how a hobby – sportscards – and the message boards could bring such amazing people together.
Kind of rings a little hollow now, doesn't it? Clearly Mike is appreciative of all the support he gets on here, so much so that he's taken it upon himself to show his gratitude by milking its members when he got the opportunity.
<< <i>I'd like to add that my personal view of the act of shilling an auction, while somewhat shady, isn't that big of a deal to me. It's is far from the worst thing a guy can do. What I find truly repugnant here is that miconelegacy strategically targeted a CU member he was friendly with and intentionally ran the price up on him. There are some on these boards that don't care for me which is fine, but not once has the thought ever crossed my mind to screw over someone on these boards.
Now, I'm sure dpeck will chime in and take the high road by saying Mike made a mistake, should be forgiven, blah blah blah..... But that doesn't excuse his actions, because in the end after all of his holier than thou schtick about how he used cards to get through a tough time, how no one could understand what he's gone through, how he's happy to give advice on how to make money on modern rips, how thankful he is for everybody's sympathy, etc....., Mike is nothing more than a con artist trying to scheme a buck off the collectors on this board and then offering a pathetically forced "my bad" when he got caught.
Lee >>
I was with you 100% till this part. Not sure why shilling a board member is any worse than shilling a complete stranger, and I disagree that generally speaking it isn't a big deal. It's complete garbage. And I'd like a certain other "respected" member of these boards to answer CowboysFan79's question. I find it hard to believe that Mike would "risk" bidding on his own items in a Probstein auction without being certain that, short of detective work by Maurice and company, he would not be questioned.
I'm not saying it isn't a big deal, I guess I just think the industry has become so desensitized to shilling because it happens all the time. So to me, it's almost like I expected to get shilled when I bid on an auction. I agree with you that it doesn't make it acceptable, but it's far easier for me to conduct business by making the assumption that it's going to happen and to not be outraged when it does.
<< <i>I disagree that generally speaking it isn't a big deal.
I'm not saying it isn't a big deal, I guess I just think the industry has become so desensitized to shilling because it happens all the time. So to me, it's almost like I expected to get shilled when I bid on an auction. I agree with you that it doesn't make it acceptable, but it's far easier for me to conduct business by making the assumption that it's going to happen and to not be outraged when it does. >>
Understood. I'd say we're crystal clear in fact.
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
And so we can all just move on... I suggest that 70sTopps guy handle all the group rips from now on.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>What a sad read ... >>
+1
Do you guys have any clue about the very basics of customer service? Do you realize how a consumer reading this garbage might interpret things and respond?
<< <i>Am I to understand that because there are a lot of dealers on this forum, the case is being made that shilling is acceptable basically because its just gonna happen anyway?
Do you guys have any clue about the very basics of customer service? Do you realize how a consumer reading this garbage might interpret things and respond? >>
I think the overall feeling on the board is that shilling is totally unacceptable and that this recent revelation is very upsetting to many people. While it was suspected that shilling occurred in many of this popular Ebay seller's auctions (not by him but by the consigners), this is the first time that I can remember that someone has been caught red handed.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>
I think the overall feeling on the board is that shilling is totally unacceptable and that this recent revelation is very upsetting to many people. While it was suspected that shilling occurred in many of this popular Ebay seller's auctions (not by him but by the consigners), this is the first time that I can remember that someone has been caught red handed. >>
I dont know if this was before 2004 or not, but there was a very respected member here, his username was JRDolan. He was one of my favorite posters and I used to buy lots from him. He was caught red handed shilling his ebay auctions. He came and admitted what he had done with a long apology. He said he was leaving the boards because he was so embarrassed and was never heard from again. Now, I have no idea if he kept going on ebay and continued to do what he did....I dont know if he quit the hobby....and I dont know if he has had alts and has well hidden himself as a member over the years.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>Lance Armstrong and Manti Te'o stories..... >>
.....may soon be forgotten.
<< <i>Am I to understand that because there are a lot of dealers on this forum, the case is being made that shilling is acceptable basically because its just gonna happen anyway?
No. I would say many of them know they each shill, hoping they don't get caught. I'll wager others on this board are doing it, and many will now stop because one got caught.
seems a little sloppy here...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>I think people are confusing shilling with safety bidding which is an acceptable practice as long as you are a respected member of the board. >>
That too was a stone cold outing. The Safety Bid thread really set the precedent for public call outs here. I think Maurice may have been involved with that one too.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
Its truly baffling since I spread $5-40 while COUNTING at DD BJ when I visit and expect to potentially lose $400-600 if I run bad. $100-400 I would expect to bring around $10K on a trip if I didn't want to encounter a very high risk of ruin(ie losing all my money in the first hour I play). Since that amount was apparently peanuts.....whats a guy doing shilling an auction thats $125?
I have no real stake here...this is more like a Jerry Springer thing, but just thought I'd throw this all in
<< <i>...this is more like a Jerry Springer thing, >>
Great analogy.
<< <i>
<< <i>...this is more like a Jerry Springer thing, >>
Great analogy. >>
Least I know one thing...
I am NOT the father
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
On a side note. Thanks for the Desert Storm Set info!
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set
The 1991 Desert Shield box sold for $5,097.96 with the buyers premium.
The 1972 Topps sold for $7,235.20 with the buyers premium.
The 1990 Frank Thomas sold for $1,504.16 with the buyers premium.
<< <i>Just out of curiosity I checked the results from the Mile High auction.
The 1991 Desert Shield box sold for $5,097.96 with the buyers premium.
The 1972 Topps sold for $7,235.20 with the buyers premium.
The 1990 Frank Thomas sold for $1,504.16 with the buyers premium. >>
Strong price on the Desert Shield. You can get a PSA 10 Chipper from that set for $4,000 - $4,500. I wonder if the buyer of this box realizes he could have that card and $1,000 in his pocket for what he just dropped on all that potential. A bird in the hand....
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>Interesting time to bump this thread sir. >>
Agreed, made me think twice, but I'll be contributing regardless. At this point it's about the kids and not questionable prior actions of their father.
Mike mailed the card to me with an apology note. I mailed it back with a note that said no thanks and it was auctioned off again a few weeks later.
I didn't hold a grudge and we remained friendly.
<< <i>Here is what happened.
Mike mailed the card to me with an apology note. I mailed it back with a note that said no thanks and it was auctioned off again a few weeks later.
I didn't hold a grudge and we remained friendly. >>
End of story!!
wow
I agree. I understand why Shooty bumped the thread, but it's in very poor taste. I don't see how it does anybody any good right now.
Lee
There were a lot of things said in poor taste in that thread. Fascinating stuff. No one certainly was holding their tongue back then.
I came down as hard on Mike as anybody at the time, but now is hardly the time to rehash a scandalous 1.5 year old thread shortly after the person it was centered around has passed away. This thread was clearly bumped to shed him in a bad light which is a di*k thing to do under the circumstances.
For what it's worth, after this whole thing went down Mike pm'd me and we hashed some things out about this situation. He apologized, I accepted. I told him I would not bring up the issue on the boards again and wished him good luck on everything.
Lee
<< <i>I understand why Shooty bumped the thread, but it's in very poor taste. I don't see how it does anybody any good right now. >>
+1
I get some people didn't trust, or perhaps even like, Mike because of the various things that happened.
That said, this isn't about Mike.
It's about three children, aged 7 thru 14, who in the course of 3 years lost both their mother and father.
I honestly can't fathom why anyone would want to dredge up the past at the expense of possibly having people not contribute to a fund for those kids.
Snorto~