While I agree with Laura on so many things, I get very concerned when the value of rare coins is driven by large investment funds rather than by passionate collectors. Glad to hear there are well-healed collectors with $500,000,000 collections and I will hope that the Japanese collectors are collectors and not just investors.
If what she says is true (I have no reason to disagree), it certainly explains why cool coins are disappearing.
I thought FUN 2011 was going to be a bust until Friday - was finally offered a great coin that was brought to the show by a local collector.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
Coolness is in the eye of the beholder (and is not directly proportional to the depth of the pocketbook.)
Legend wrote: Yes, Legend happens to exclusively deal with 3 of them. We unhesitatingly would say that between our good friend from Ft Worth, TX, and the family down the road in Dallas (who own 2 1804 $1 and the unquestioned greatest BUST collections ever), COMBINED their collections are worth a startling $500,000,000.00!
Does Legend sign exclusivity contracts with these buyers? If so, what's in it for the buyers? If not, how does Legend know these buyers do not shop elsewhere, as well?
<< <i> ...Glad to hear there are well-healed collectors with $500,000,000 collections and I will hope that the Japanese collectors are collectors and not just investors. >>
It's sad the hobby has turned into "investing" instead of "collecting". Sad in the respect that many collectors may never get to see many of the really sweet coins in their lifetime.
Adapted from; Where have all the flowers gone, by Pete Seeger
Where have all the cool coins gone? Long time passing Where have all the cool coins gone? Long time ago Where have all the cool coins gone? Legend has picked them every one Sold to big money from Russia and Japan When will we ever learn?
Where have all the cool coins gone? Long time passing Where have all the cool coins gone? Long time ago Where have all the cool coins gone? Taken to Texas by investors every one When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?
Where have all the collectors gone? Long time passing Where have all the collectors gone? Long time ago Where have all the collectors gone? Gone to the Darkside every one It's about time they learned! It's about time they learned!
Where have all the B&M's gone? Long time passing Where have all the B&M's gone? Long time ago Where have all the B&M's gone? Gone to graveyards every one From this, what did we learn? From this, what did we learn?
Where have all the graveyards gone? Long time passing Where have all the graveyards gone? Long time ago Where have all the graveyards gone? Covered with maxed out,Secured Plus, CAC'd coins every one When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?
To put my comments into context (for those who don't know me), I like patterns and private/territorial coins.
There are plenty of other "cool" coins in other series available.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
I can attest firsthand regarding Legend's comments on DMPL Carson City dollars, and it is spot on. I have been a collector of mostly high grade common date CC's in DMPL for over 25 yrs. and they have basically all but dried up. I used to be able to go to any mid size to major show and see dozens of gorgeous DMPL CC's with beautiful contrast and ultra deep mirrors, and my only limit was my pocketbook.........Now?? Pretty much NOTHING!
Mostly all you see offered for sale these days are all the picked over rejects, the overgraded bumped coins, shallow coins with little to no cameo contrast, etc. At one time I probably owned over 100 - 125 misc. common date DMPL CC's in 64Dm to 66DM and have long since sold or traded away most of them over the years, and they just do NOT seem to ever reappear on the market.
Then you also have the "crack, dip, resubmit" phenomena which has affected (and essentially ruined) so many DMPL CC's over the past 25 yrs. or so where a dealer or collector buys a nice PQ DMPL CC dollar, cracks it out, dips it one or more times, and resubmits it in search of a higher grade. While the coin may look sharp and flashy right after it was dipped, over time the mirrors on the coin will degrade and turn to a combination of mirror and frost, and the more times it was dipped the more the mirrors will degrade and lose both reflectivity and depth. Often people will say that PCGS had looser standards for DMPL Morgan's back in the 90's and early 2000's which accounts for many older holdered coins not appearing to have very good depth of reflectivity. IMO this is only partly true, as many of these older holder coins have been dipped out and have since degraded in their holders making it look like PCGS gave out a DMPL designation to a non DMPL coin.
The final part is the overall quality of the DMPL dollar pool today. IMO a large percentage of the 65DM and 66DM common date CC's you see in holders today have been bumped at one time or another in the past thus lowering the overall quality of what is in PCGS/NGC holders today. Back in the day there was a big spread between a 65DM and a 66DM (about 5X) and it was commonplace to crack out and resubmit any 65DM that was even remotely a PQ coin and had a shot.
In todays market, you cannot buy a nice original PQ (and deeply contrasted) CC DMPL for anywhere even close to sheet prices IMO, and when a really sharp one is infrequently offered you will see them go for as much as double or more of generic market pricing. An example would be a common date 83-CC or 84-CC in MS64DMPL........a typical average quality generic piece with so-so mirrors and contrast may go for in the 400.00 - 475.00 range while a you can easily expect to pay 750.00 - 900.00 for a really sharp one (the kind that existed in quantity all over the place 20 yrs. ago for under 200.00).
The first requirement for a dealer to buy any COOL coin is that it be priced attractively enough to leave room for a nice profit. Without that, there is no reason to buy it.
Most remaining holders of COOL coins aren't letting them go at 2002-2004 prices or they have long term intentions. Imagine the response from the coin market if those 2 heavyweights from Texas decided to unload their $500,000,000 combined collections?
It seems that with every upmove in the market since 1986, less and less coins qualify for that monicker.
Well since I collect mostly inexpensive type coins (although I'm considering a venture into patterns), I guess it wouldn't really effect me too much. I don't see myself ever being able to afford a $100,000+ coin. Hell, I just hit the $1000+ barrier earlier this month! LOL
It is a shame that so much US gold is being hoarded overseas though.
"Add all this up, and CLEARLY proves how rare coins are. It also clearly proves how UNDER valued great quality is. As collectors start to realize they are not seeing great coins they know they MUST pay more. Its been proven recent auction after auction (forget about using other rags for printed information-auctions are reality) how the “best” quality coins perform. That’s why we keep telling you not to let an incredible coin go because of an extra 10-40% cost. When you buy a great coin, you should be doing so with a long term objective. That’s when you will see the staggering returns like a Pittman earned or a Norweb got. Its all about demand and time. These days so few cool coins are for sale-do NOT miss opportunity!"
Rarity does not necessarily equate with something being undervalued. The people with the deepest pockets are simply buying the finest examples of what they like because they have the money to do it. Price / cost does not matter to many of these people. This is the case with all kinds of collectibles, and has been going on for generations.
While these people set the standard for the pricing of rarities like the 1804 Dollar of 1913 Nickel, they are irrelevant to 99% of the rest of us, who are the "unwashed masses" of numismatics. Ie., an individual paying 4X sheet for a CC Morgan in PC 5 DMPL has nothing to do with the price of a nice MS 65 Barber Half.
The "I want it because I have a blank check to pay for it" mentality is irrelevant to 99% of us in the hobby. Practically speaking, price does matter to me and I don't collect certain coins because of it.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Cool is not the same as rare, and cool is not the same as expensive.
Sounds like a bunch of rich people complaining. People who have 500 million to spend on a collection have something wrong with them. That money could be serving a much better purpose.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
like a bunch of rich people complaining. People who have 500 million to spend on a collection have something wrong with them. That money could be serving a much better purpose.
I don't necessarily disagree with you but the time spent/wasted on this forum could be spent serving a much better purpose too.
PF - You are raising a philosophical issue re what the well do to should do with their money. As far as I am concerned, it's up to them. If anyone tried to tell me what to do with my disposable income, I'd tell them to mételela.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
I don't have any problem with REAL collectors pushing up prices, but investors (or in reality speculators) really bother me. The trouble with these guys is that they are pushing the market for something other than hobby reasons. Sure they put money into it which benefits some big dealers, but their demand is not based on the growth of hobby just speculation.
Who is going to buy their holdings when it comes to sell? It will either be true collectors or other speculators, who could be called “bigger fools.” When speculators push coin prices beyond the level that the true collectors are willing pay, the result will be a major market correction. We had that in the early 1980s, and it happened in smaller way to the early commemorative coins in the late 1980s.
In the long run coins are only worth what true collectors are willing to pay. They set the market over the years. Speculators come and go and tend to screw up things.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I really, really, really, really, really want to own a "Cool Coin" so that I will be viewed with favor and liked by others in the hobby.
I fear, however, that I will never be able to own a "Cool Coin".
Thus I find that I my lot in my hobby life is to be relegated to the numismatic wasteland inhabited by unworthy collectors and dealers who are destined to wallow in dreck and dross.
I so want to be admitted into the "Cool Coin Club" whose members have all of the fun playing with their Cool Coins.
How will I ever survive,.................. nay how will I even be able to live,.................. if I can not acquire a "Cool Coin".
This thread has just runied my whole day, I tell ya. Just ruined it
Please, won't smoeone have pitty on me and send me [for free of course] a "Cool Coin"? I mean, do I not have a "right" to a "Cool Coin", or even multiples of them? I recall seeing a provision in the Federal Constitution and the California Constitution that specifically states that I have a right to a least one "Cool Coin".
I have a bunch of incredibly cool Lincoln cents that I would be happy to sell. Unfortunately, prices have dipped enough that I will just hold tight for now. Maybe others are feeling the same way.
I gotta admit that I find it quite saddening to hear that so many cool coins are going off the market for so long........and, it also saddens me that they are leaving the country.
Aren't they really US relics that shouldn't be able to be taken out of the country?
I think this coin in my collection is pretty cool - PM me with offer if you don't have any cool coins.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
<< <i>I gotta admit that I find it quite saddening to hear that so many cool coins are going off the market for so long........and, it also saddens me that they are leaving the country.
Aren't they really US relics that shouldn't be able to be taken out of the country? >>
No, US citizens take out coins from other countries all the time.......
This one listed as rare in Krause.....no prices given.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Hey, do you think Laura has any coins that are in Doily holders?
If she gets the 500 Mil guys to start looking at Doilies, I am toast as far as ever getting another.
Oh, and I think if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't be buying simple proof gold. My collection would include:
---A grading set of 1974 Aluminum Cents from XF45 through MS66. ---The other Izzy Switt 1933 Saints that people didn't blab about. ---( ) 1964-D Peace non D.Carrs. Fill in the quantifier.
Best yet . . . put 'em all in Doilies. Now you're talking anti-DRECK !!!!
I know this is off the subject, but i think PCGS should just go back to the Doily holder just to make Drunner real happy for a while. ( That guy would eat Doilys for breakfast)Plus it might screw up the fake PCGS holder making for a while.
On the cool coin subject i really like what Bill Jones said, Infact i like most of what he says.
I will never have a really cool coin because my definition of a cool coin is out of my reach and that's why i think it's cool.
Winner of the "You Suck!" award March 17, 2010 by LanLord, doh, 123cents and Bear.
<< <i>I gotta admit that I find it quite saddening to hear that so many cool coins are going off the market for so long........and, it also saddens me that they are leaving the country.
Aren't they really US relics that shouldn't be able to be taken out of the country? >>
Yeah, sure. And the Greeks and Italians and Spanish should be entitled to all their stuff. Adrian, what are you smoking?!? Just dig deep and buy all the 'cool coins' yourself.
Remember many, many cool coins (hundreds of thousands of gold coins) left before and then came back...of course we may not be alive to see it this time.
Cool coins for me are attractive rainbow toned coins within the series I collect, which is far from rare. But they seem to be much harder to find today than just a few years ago. But every now and then I get lucky and find some nice examples, which are usually raw when I find them then off to pcgs they go.
Sounds like the collectors Laura is speeking of are not collectors at all, but businessman with no desire for American numismatics, just a desire for profit margin.
<< <i>Cool coins for me are attractive rainbow toned coins within the series I collect, which is far from rare. But they seem to be much harder to find today than just a few years ago. But every now and then I get lucky and find some nice examples, which are usually raw when I find them then off to pcgs they go.
Sounds like the collectors Laura is speeking of are not collectors at all, but businessman with no desire for American numismatics, just a desire for profit margin. >>
Sounds like someone should be a bit less judgemental. After all, how much profit margin is there in a 1943-D cent at $1.7M? Purchases like that are done for the love of the coin, not for profit. /eyeroll
And guess what happens when these same people try to unload hundreds of these gem proof gold coins at the same time (after spending years building up their stockpiles....
Can they sell them over many many years? You bet. But few investors/speculators want to wait that long to unwind their positions.
What goes around comes around. This is not new at all.
During the Americana Pax era of the 20th century, the world has seen American collectors with their new found wealth able to buy coins from all over the world. This was particularly prounounced in the last 75 years in that American collectors have succeeded in acquiring the great coins of North, Central and South America because our US dollar was so strong and the other currencies were so weak. Of course there were some exceptions from time to time.
For example, the last 80 years saw American collectors such as the Norwebs and their son buying up many of the famous Canadian rarities. Example of such Canadian rarities are the 1875-H specimen silver 5c, 10c and 25c coins, the 1921 coinage, etc. By the 1960's, the American collectors such as the Norweb family, Pittman, and others had nearly absolute domination on nearly all famous Canadian rarities. Even an American collector such as John Pittman was elected the President of the Canadian Numismatic Association (CNA).
By the 1990's, the American influence over Canadian famous coins was waning. Canadian coin collectors such as Belzberg was able to beat American collectors including myself to the great Canadian coins. Fortunately I was able to procure the Norweb trio of the 1875-H specimen coins in 1997, but as a result, it prevented my acquiring other great Canadian coins. I was no match for the new breed of Canadian coin collectors who were strengthened by an ever strengthening Canadian dollar. The Canadian coins have slowly come back to their home.
What we are seeing is a repeat of what happened to South, Central and North American coins (other than USA coins) 80 years ago. As the US dollar weakens, our USA famous coins (and not so famous coins) become cheaper price-wise to foreign coin collectors and they are simply outbidding us since they are paying with foreign currency that is worth a lot more in US dollars than just 10 years ago.
Great comment, oreville, and I agree with you completely. But a question: Why do those same foreign collectors (ie. Belzberg), when it comes time to sell their collections, sell them in the US (and for US$) rather than their home market? Not all do, of course, but many.
If the buyers of those same coins are from the home market, it certainly makes it difficult for them to participate by having the auction in the US (because of hassles such as currency conversion, shipping, and customs).
ANACONDA
Posts: 4,692 ✭
Comments
I thought FUN 2011 was going to be a bust until Friday - was finally offered a great coin that was brought to the show by a local collector.
Legend wrote:
Yes, Legend happens to exclusively deal with 3 of them. We unhesitatingly would say that between our good friend from Ft Worth, TX, and the family down the road in Dallas (who own 2 1804 $1 and the unquestioned greatest BUST collections ever), COMBINED their collections are worth a startling $500,000,000.00!
Does Legend sign exclusivity contracts with these buyers? If so, what's in it for the buyers? If not, how does Legend know these buyers do not shop elsewhere, as well?
<< <i> ...Glad to hear there are well-healed collectors with $500,000,000 collections and I will hope that the Japanese collectors are collectors and not just investors. >>
It's sad the hobby has turned into "investing" instead of "collecting". Sad in the respect that many collectors may never get to see many of the really sweet coins in their lifetime.
Where have all the cool coins gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the cool coins gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the cool coins gone?
Legend has picked them every one
Sold to big money from Russia and Japan
When will we ever learn?
Where have all the cool coins gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the cool coins gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the cool coins gone?
Taken to Texas by investors every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the collectors gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the collectors gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the collectors gone?
Gone to the Darkside every one
It's about time they learned!
It's about time they learned!
Where have all the B&M's gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the B&M's gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the B&M's gone?
Gone to graveyards every one
From this, what did we learn?
From this, what did we learn?
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Covered with maxed out,Secured Plus, CAC'd coins every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?
Gary
<< <i>Since 'they' don't buy coins valued at <$100,000 I guess I don't have to worry about competing with them! >>
Well played
Yogi Berra
There are plenty of other "cool" coins in other series available.
Mostly all you see offered for sale these days are all the picked over rejects, the overgraded bumped coins, shallow coins with little to no cameo contrast, etc. At one time I probably owned over 100 - 125 misc. common date DMPL CC's in 64Dm to 66DM and have long since sold or traded away most of them over the years, and they just do NOT seem to ever reappear on the market.
Then you also have the "crack, dip, resubmit" phenomena which has affected (and essentially ruined) so many DMPL CC's over the past 25 yrs. or so where a dealer or collector buys a nice PQ DMPL CC dollar, cracks it out, dips it one or more times, and resubmits it in search of a higher grade. While the coin may look sharp and flashy right after it was dipped, over time the mirrors on the coin will degrade and turn to a combination of mirror and frost, and the more times it was dipped the more the mirrors will degrade and lose both reflectivity and depth. Often people will say that PCGS had looser standards for DMPL Morgan's back in the 90's and early 2000's which accounts for many older holdered coins not appearing to have very good depth of reflectivity. IMO this is only partly true, as many of these older holder coins have been dipped out and have since degraded in their holders making it look like PCGS gave out a DMPL designation to a non DMPL coin.
The final part is the overall quality of the DMPL dollar pool today. IMO a large percentage of the 65DM and 66DM common date CC's you see in holders today have been bumped at one time or another in the past thus lowering the overall quality of what is in PCGS/NGC holders today. Back in the day there was a big spread between a 65DM and a 66DM (about 5X) and it was commonplace to crack out and resubmit any 65DM that was even remotely a PQ coin and had a shot.
In todays market, you cannot buy a nice original PQ (and deeply contrasted) CC DMPL for anywhere even close to sheet prices IMO, and when a really sharp one is infrequently offered you will see them go for as much as double or more of generic market pricing. An example would be a common date 83-CC or 84-CC in MS64DMPL........a typical average quality generic piece with so-so mirrors and contrast may go for in the 400.00 - 475.00 range while a you can easily expect to pay 750.00 - 900.00 for a really sharp one (the kind that existed in quantity all over the place 20 yrs. ago for under 200.00).
<< <i>If "cool coins" were easily found everywhere, nobody would be interested in them. >>
The reason rare coins are difficult to find is because they are rare, lol.
Most remaining holders of COOL coins aren't letting them go at 2002-2004 prices or they have long term intentions.
Imagine the response from the coin market if those 2 heavyweights from Texas decided to unload their $500,000,000 combined collections?
It seems that with every upmove in the market since 1986, less and less coins qualify for that monicker.
roadrunner
It is a shame that so much US gold is being hoarded overseas though.
<< <i>The darkside beckons. Let the billionaires have their trophies. >>
Come to the Darkside ( We have tea and biscuits )
Rarity does not necessarily equate with something being undervalued. The people with the deepest pockets are simply buying the finest examples of what they like because they have the money to do it. Price / cost does not matter to many of these people. This is the case with all kinds of collectibles, and has been going on for generations.
While these people set the standard for the pricing of rarities like the 1804 Dollar of 1913 Nickel, they are irrelevant to 99% of the rest of us, who are the "unwashed masses" of numismatics. Ie., an individual paying 4X sheet for a CC Morgan in PC 5 DMPL has nothing to do with the price of a nice MS 65 Barber Half.
The "I want it because I have a blank check to pay for it" mentality is irrelevant to 99% of us in the hobby. Practically speaking, price does matter to me and I don't collect certain coins because of it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Sounds like a bunch of rich people complaining. People who have 500 million to spend on a collection have something wrong with them. That money could be serving a much better purpose.
<< <i>
People who have thousands to spend on a collection have something wrong with them. That money could be serving a much better purpose. >>
Do you realize just how silly that sounds now?
I don't necessarily disagree with you but the time spent/wasted on this forum could be spent serving a much better purpose too.
<< <i>
<< <i>
People who have thousands to spend on a collection have something wrong with them. That money could be serving a much better purpose. >>
Do you realize just how silly that sounds now?
I'm wasting my time in this thread.
<< <i>People who have 500 million to spend on a collection have something wrong with them. That money could be serving a much better purpose. >>
Do you think it's appropriate for other people to tell you how you should spend your money, or is it just okay when you do it to them?
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Who is going to buy their holdings when it comes to sell? It will either be true collectors or other speculators, who could be called “bigger fools.” When speculators push coin prices beyond the level that the true collectors are willing pay, the result will be a major market correction. We had that in the early 1980s, and it happened in smaller way to the early commemorative coins in the late 1980s.
In the long run coins are only worth what true collectors are willing to pay. They set the market over the years. Speculators come and go and tend to screw up things.
<< <i>The darkside beckons. Let the billionaires have their trophies. >>
ahhhh yes, the DARKSIDE indeed has some great and cool coins....
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
All the cool coins are drying up. We sell cool coins. Don't be afraid to pay 10 to 40% more for a cool coin when you see it.
Advertising with a little fear, uncertainty, and doubt tossed in. (We call it FUD in the military).
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Camelot
<< <i>Coolness is in the eye of the beholder (and is not directly proportional to the depth of the pocketbook.) >>
Well said!
I fear, however, that I will never be able to own a "Cool Coin".
Thus I find that I my lot in my hobby life is to be relegated to the numismatic wasteland inhabited by unworthy collectors and dealers who are destined to wallow in dreck and dross.
I so want to be admitted into the "Cool Coin Club" whose members have all of the fun playing with their Cool Coins.
How will I ever survive,.................. nay how will I even be able to live,.................. if I can not acquire a "Cool Coin".
This thread has just runied my whole day, I tell ya. Just ruined it
Please, won't smoeone have pitty on me and send me [for free of course] a "Cool Coin"? I mean, do I not have a "right" to a "Cool Coin", or even multiples of them? I recall seeing a provision in the Federal Constitution and the California Constitution that specifically states that I have a right to a least one "Cool Coin".
<< <i>Do you think it's appropriate for other people to tell you how you should spend your money, or is it just okay when you do it to them?
Isn't that the definition of a Democrat?
I have a bunch of incredibly cool Lincoln cents that I would be happy to sell. Unfortunately, prices have dipped enough that I will just hold tight for now.
Maybe others are feeling the same way.
Jack
Aren't they really US relics that shouldn't be able to be taken out of the country?
<< <i>I gotta admit that I find it quite saddening to hear that so many cool coins are going off the market for so long........and, it also saddens me that they are leaving the country.
Aren't they really US relics that shouldn't be able to be taken out of the country? >>
No, US citizens take out coins from other countries all the time.......
This one listed as rare in Krause.....no prices given.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Aren't they really US relics that shouldn't be able to be taken out of the country? >>
No.
If she gets the 500 Mil guys to start looking at Doilies, I am toast as far as ever getting another.
Oh, and I think if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't be buying simple proof gold. My collection would include:
---A grading set of 1974 Aluminum Cents from XF45 through MS66.
---The other Izzy Switt 1933 Saints that people didn't blab about.
---( ) 1964-D Peace non D.Carrs. Fill in the quantifier.
Best yet . . . put 'em all in Doilies. Now you're talking anti-DRECK !!!!
Drunner
On the cool coin subject i really like what Bill Jones said, Infact i like most of what he says.
I will never have a really cool coin because my definition of a cool coin is out of my reach and that's why i think it's cool.
<< <i>I gotta admit that I find it quite saddening to hear that so many cool coins are going off the market for so long........and, it also saddens me that they are leaving the country.
Aren't they really US relics that shouldn't be able to be taken out of the country? >>
Yeah, sure. And the Greeks and Italians and Spanish should be entitled to all their stuff. Adrian, what are you smoking?!? Just dig deep and buy all the 'cool coins' yourself.
Gary
Sounds like the collectors Laura is speeking of are not collectors at all, but businessman with no desire for American numismatics, just a desire for profit margin.
<< <i>Cool coins for me are attractive rainbow toned coins within the series I collect, which is far from rare. But they seem to be much harder to find today than just a few years ago. But every now and then I get lucky and find some nice examples, which are usually raw when I find them then off to pcgs they go.
Sounds like the collectors Laura is speeking of are not collectors at all, but businessman with no desire for American numismatics, just a desire for profit margin. >>
Sounds like someone should be a bit less judgemental. After all, how much profit margin is there in a 1943-D cent at $1.7M? Purchases like that are done for the love of the coin, not for profit. /eyeroll
<< <i>
<< <i>The darkside beckons. Let the billionaires have their trophies. >>
Come to the Darkside ( We have tea and biscuits ) >>
And our own whales....
Can they sell them over many many years? You bet. But few investors/speculators want to wait that long to unwind their positions.
During the Americana Pax era of the 20th century, the world has seen American collectors with their new found wealth able to buy coins from all over the world. This was particularly prounounced in the last 75 years in that American collectors have succeeded in acquiring the great coins of North, Central and South America because our US dollar was so strong and the other currencies were so weak. Of course there were some exceptions from time to time.
For example, the last 80 years saw American collectors such as the Norwebs and their son buying up many of the famous Canadian rarities. Example of such Canadian rarities are the 1875-H specimen silver 5c, 10c and 25c coins, the 1921 coinage, etc. By the 1960's, the American collectors such as the Norweb family, Pittman, and others had nearly absolute domination on nearly all famous Canadian rarities. Even an American collector such as John Pittman was elected the President of the Canadian Numismatic Association (CNA).
By the 1990's, the American influence over Canadian famous coins was waning. Canadian coin collectors such as Belzberg was able to beat American collectors including myself to the great Canadian coins. Fortunately I was able to procure the Norweb trio of the 1875-H specimen coins in 1997, but as a result, it prevented my acquiring other great Canadian coins. I was no match for the new breed of Canadian coin collectors who were strengthened by an ever strengthening Canadian dollar. The Canadian coins have slowly come back to their home.
What we are seeing is a repeat of what happened to South, Central and North American coins (other than USA coins) 80 years ago.
As the US dollar weakens, our USA famous coins (and not so famous coins) become cheaper price-wise to foreign coin collectors and they are simply outbidding us since they are paying with foreign currency that is worth a lot more in US dollars than just 10 years ago.
If the buyers of those same coins are from the home market, it certainly makes it difficult for them to participate by having the auction in the US (because of hassles such as currency conversion, shipping, and customs).