CW: USM to Melt 85,000 2009 UHR Gold Coins
7over8
Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
In CW this week:
USM to melt 85,000 2009 UHR gold coins....
????
Why not offer last chance offering???? I dont get it. So many offering sit on the site for a year or two.
Why not reduce the premium and sell. You still would generate profits over melting.....
Doesn't make sense.
USM to melt 85,000 2009 UHR gold coins....
????
Why not offer last chance offering???? I dont get it. So many offering sit on the site for a year or two.
Why not reduce the premium and sell. You still would generate profits over melting.....
Doesn't make sense.
0
Comments
I dont know if they transfer those back to WP after returns are made......
seems like alot for returns.
I would think they struck many more than sold.......
<< <i>In CW this week:
USM to melt 85,000 2009 UHR gold coins....
????
Why not offer last chance offering???? I dont get it. So many offering sit on the site for a year or two.
Why not reduce the premium and sell. You still would generate profits over melting.....
Doesn't make sense. >>
I am no fan of the mint continuing to sell coins after the marketing period for them has passed. I don't think that is fair to those who bought the coins when they were offered. If you want another 2009 UHR, why not buy one from a dealer? Let the mint melt the pieces that did not sell.
<< <i>Returns maybe? >>
I doubt that there were 85,000 returns. They were probably produced in anticipation of more sales than actually occurred.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>In CW this week:
USM to melt 85,000 2009 UHR gold coins....
????
Why not offer last chance offering???? I dont get it. So many offering sit on the site for a year or two.
Why not reduce the premium and sell. You still would generate profits over melting.....
Doesn't make sense. >>
I am no fan of the mint continuing to sell coins after the marketing period for them has passed. I don't think that is fair to those who bought the coins when they were offered. If you want another 2009 UHR, why not buy one from a dealer? Let the mint melt the pieces that did not sell. >>
I tend to agree... flooding the market with these coins dilutes the uniqueness and value of those in the hands of collectors likely to object strongly, should the USM choose to empty their shelves. With the price of gold having escalated, transmuting current stock to current mintages further increases the premium the USM would enjoy. It, after all, a profit-makeing enterprise.
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
most dealers paying 1800 and up for raw coins,
but if the USM is gonna MELT THEM
why not offer at $100 bucks over spot.
doesnt seem logical.
but no......more senseless government waste. Melt these treasures .....
I wake up shaking my head over some of the lunatic things that go on in this country.....
First reason:
There may be a law requiring that the unsold UHRs are to be melted. To not do so would open them up to lawsuits.
Second, more crazy reason:
The law allows a certain loss of gold when melting occurs. Perhaps 5%; I seem to recall this reading a Carson City mint book. So, this is a way for someone to steal 5% of 85,000 ounces of gold.
as the USM has sold some products **forever**
like the Kennedy 2001 Bags.
something doesnt smell right....maybe they are fishing......to see if there is still interest to buy these....
why even release info like this, they are **shut mouth** about every other issue
interesting.
I'd guess a person's opinion would depend on if they bought one in '09 or missed the boat. I bought one, therefore...
They sold these initally at $1189. They can melt the coins and use the .999 gold to make more coins and sell those instead of having to purchase gold at current market value.....
<< <i>this is a interesting development...
as the USM has sold some products **forever**
like the Kennedy 2001 Bags.
something doesnt smell right....maybe they are fishing......to see if there is still interest to buy these....
why even release info like this, they are **shut mouth** about every other issue
interesting. >>
Good point. If they were prohibited from selling after 2009 then why didn't they melt already and why announce as you stated. Could be they are stoking the flames for a reoffering. Who knows.
<< <i>this is a interesting development...
as the USM has sold some products **forever**
like the Kennedy 2001 Bags.
something doesnt smell right....maybe they are fishing......to see if there is still interest to buy these....
why even release info like this, they are **shut mouth** about every other issue
interesting. >>
As I have posted once (and only once) in each of these threads, the legislation that authorized them to be made authorized them to be sold through the end of 2009. Not 2010, not 2011, not 2012 (need I continue?) --jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>this is a interesting development...
as the USM has sold some products **forever**
like the Kennedy 2001 Bags.
something doesnt smell right....maybe they are fishing......to see if there is still interest to buy these....
why even release info like this, they are **shut mouth** about every other issue
interesting. >>
As I have posted once (and only once) in each of these threads, the legislation that authorized them to be made authorized them to be sold through the end of 2009. Not 2010, not 2011, not 2012 (need I continue?) --jerry >>
Jerry, what about 2013?
<< <i>Unless the US Govt is in much worse shape than we suppose,,,,,why not just put these treasures back into storage? Put them in a time lock vault and store them a century.
but no......more senseless government waste. Melt these treasures .....
I wake up shaking my head over some of the lunatic things that go on in this country..... >>
Would you buy a rare coin knowing that the government had 85,000 in storage and they may release then whenever they please? How would that overhang effect the value of that coin?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>In CW this week:
USM to melt 85,000 2009 UHR gold coins....
????
Why not offer last chance offering???? I dont get it. So many offering sit on the site for a year or two.
Why not reduce the premium and sell. You still would generate profits over melting.....
Doesn't make sense. >>
Along with about 60,000 unused planchets....Mint was only authorized to sell the UHR through 12/31/2009. They overproduced & overestimated the possible sales....One of many current & previous US Mint blunders...
<< <i>
I am no fan of the mint continuing to sell coins after the marketing period for them has passed. I don't think that is fair to those who bought the coins when they were offered. If you want another 2009 UHR, why not buy one from a dealer? Let the mint melt the pieces that did not sell. >>
Word. Whatever is their holding or waiting period, then melt them.
--Severian the Lame
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>In CW this week:
USM to melt 85,000 2009 UHR gold coins....
????
Why not offer last chance offering???? I dont get it. So many offering sit on the site for a year or two.
Why not reduce the premium and sell. You still would generate profits over melting.....
Doesn't make sense. >>
Makes ABSOLUTELY NO sense. All you hear about is the deficit. These have ALREADY been minted and packaged. So, instead of turning a profit w/a last chance sale, they melt them. ONLY the Govt. could do something so STUPID!
You have an obligation to protect your customers. It would be catastrophic for an organization that lives on collector sentiment to undermine its business model, its customers, its products.
--Severian the Lame
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>In CW this week:
USM to melt 85,000 2009 UHR gold coins....
????
Why not offer last chance offering???? I dont get it. So many offering sit on the site for a year or two.
Why not reduce the premium and sell. You still would generate profits over melting.....
Doesn't make sense. >>
Makes ABSOLUTELY NO sense. All you hear about is the deficit. These have ALREADY been minted and packaged. So, instead of turning a profit w/a last chance sale, they melt them. ONLY the Govt. could do something so STUPID! >>
Instead of melting them just sell them for melt value plus a small premium. I would buy one and I am sure others would too.
It will cost them money to melt them, if all it takes is for congress to approve it, just do it.
<< <i>
<< <i>this is a interesting development...
as the USM has sold some products **forever**
like the Kennedy 2001 Bags.
something doesnt smell right....maybe they are fishing......to see if there is still interest to buy these....
why even release info like this, they are **shut mouth** about every other issue
interesting. >>
As I have posted once (and only once) in each of these threads, the legislation that authorized them to be made authorized them to be sold through the end of 2009. Not 2010, not 2011, not 2012 (need I continue?) --jerry >>
The law could be ammended if needed. Don't underestimate the governments ability to change the rules in the middle of the game. Haven't they done that before? Recently?
<< <i>Let's put it this way: If the Mint releases these, I'll NEVER BUY ANOTHER MINT PRODUCT AGAIN.
At least for a few months anyway.
i would like to see it
<< <i>ok, who can drum up the original legislation forbidding sale after 12/31/2009
i would like to see it >>
I may have missed it but I do not think there is any legislation for this coin. It was proposed by Moy and Paulson approved it. I am not aware of any selling restrictions although there may be a general rule under separate legislation which applies to this one. Also, I cannot see them eating so many of those beautiful wooden boxes and don't forget the books. That represents a good deal of money. Estimate $20 each their cost and you get 1.7 million assuming they preordered that many. Add to that the cost of planchets plus the labor and energy for striking them and we are talking a few mint salaries.
Excellant point.
Remember "Only one per household" initially?? They should have sold them when the demand was there.
That's 4250 ounces, almost 6 million dollars wasted.
They could put them into the gold reserves as they are or deface them so they can't be distributed in the future and keep them.
<< <i>
<< <i>In CW this week:
USM to melt 85,000 2009 UHR gold coins....
????
Why not offer last chance offering???? I dont get it. So many offering sit on the site for a year or two.
Why not reduce the premium and sell. You still would generate profits over melting.....
Doesn't make sense. >>
Makes ABSOLUTELY NO sense. All you hear about is the deficit. These have ALREADY been minted and packaged. So, instead of turning a profit w/a last chance sale, they melt them. ONLY the Govt. could do something so STUPID! >>
Not as stupid as you think. US Mint purchased these when Gold was about $1k.... they are now melting them at a nice profit.
<< <i>"I am no fan of the mint continuing to sell coins after the marketing period for them has passed. I don't think that is fair to those who bought the coins when they were offered. If you want another 2009 UHR, why not buy one from a dealer? Let the mint melt the pieces that did not sell." >>
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
<< <i>
<< <i>Returns maybe? >>
I doubt that there were 85,000 returns. They were probably produced in anticipation of more sales than actually occurred. >>
Absolutely. They produced more than there was demand. I believe I read where the Mint sold less gold in 2010 than in 2009. Thats the b**** about higher prices.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
and not struck coins, but my source may
be incorrect, if CW reports them as extra
COINS.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
<< <i>
<< <i>"I am no fan of the mint continuing to sell coins after the marketing period for them has passed. I don't think that is fair to those who bought the coins when they were offered. If you want another 2009 UHR, why not buy one from a dealer? Let the mint melt the pieces that did not sell." >>
Well there is a difference. Supposedly, the UHR coins exist already that were struck in 2009. Buffalo fractionals would have to be struck again in an incorrect year.
and in addition ~60,000+ unstruck planchets to possibly be used for another numismatic program....
What numismatic program? Any guesses?
A $10 size double thick .9999 fine planchet?
The only thing in recent memory that did not pass for lack of sponsorship was the NASA set - where the SUN would be limited to 50,000 coins and struck in gold. But I think it had different dimensions and different fineness?
Any other guesses?
--- Jack Handy
Positive BST transactions with members - Tander123, Twincam, UtahCoin, ianrussell
<< <i>the NASA commems would be cool >>
Hey, what ever happened to that plan? I thought that sun/planets set was a done deal a few years back?
P.S. MELT! MELT! MELT!...
<< <i>Maybe they could just restrike them with a 2011 date. I don't think many would dislike that. Calling Daniel Carr. >>
It would be fair enough, not much different than a year to year striking.
It would be great to have another opportunity to purchase these at mint prices, but for fairness sake alone, I would hope they would not do this. The aftermarket on a lot of high profile issues would possibly take a big hit, akin to finding a "hoard" of mint state rare Morgans.
(1) I can understand why, if there's a legal requirement to sell or melt within a certain timeframe, then it must be done. But just the COINS... why also the planchets? At that point, they're not unique, are they? Can't those just be re-used for the next striking?
(2) Wouldn't it be a hoot if they kept those unsold ones and, instead of melting, they "OVERSTRUCK" the date with the next year, so they could sell them as rarities and make a ton of extra money? "2011 over 2009" varieties? Come on, Mint, let's get CREATIVE!!
- - Dave
<< <i>It is ILEGAL for the mint to sell coins past there dating period.. Just as it is Ilegal for them to restrike a coin with a future or past date...Every coin collector should know this.. >>
They why is the Mint selling 2010 proof sets during 2011??? There are several 2010 dated offerings on the Mint website right now in 2011. You can even still buy rolls of 2009 Prez Bucks.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>It is ILEGAL for the mint to sell coins past there dating period.. Just as it is Ilegal for them to restrike a coin with a future or past date...Every coin collector should know this.. >>
They why is the Mint selling 2010 proof sets during 2011??? There are several 2010 dated offerings on the Mint website right now in 2011. You can even still buy rolls of 2009 Prez Bucks. >>
Congress dictates that all commem coins must be sold at a specific period of time. Time for the UHR has gone by. It was available for sale for almost a year. Annual Mint sets are not subject to that restriction.
Why stop there, melt all the extra gold coins they made instead of offering them for sale for years. They can reuse the gold and silver. Offer
them for sale for the year they were issued and then melt all that is left. It gives everyone that wants one time to get them and it will eliminat
storage problems.
<< <i>Congress dictates that all commem coins must be sold at a specific period of time. Time for the UHR has gone by. It was available for sale for almost a year. Annual Mint sets are not subject to that restriction. >>
Congress had nothing to do with it. The UHRs weren't commemoratives and there was no legislation specifying a mintage limit or that they could not be sold beyond a specific date.
They were authorized by the Secretary of the Treasury under the general authority granted for issuing gold coins in 31 U.S.C. § 5112(i). See this link for more details.
According to an updated article the Secretary authorized the coins could only be minted during 2009, however sales "may continue into 2010 if inventory exists." "
So the reason they're no longer being sold is because it's 2011, and the Secretary only authorized the mint to make the coins through 2009 and sell remaining inventory "into 2010". Whether or not the Mint petitioned the Secretary to allow sales to continue into 2011, I have no idea.
with 2011 coins (and maybe a few errors?)?
bob
<< <i>Sooooo.... Does this mean there are going to be only 30,000 or so 2009 UHR? Instead of the 115,175? >>
Was this the actual mintage, glad I bought a few.