<< <i> Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months without incidence >>
Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i> Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months without incidence >>
Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits. >>
Show us a pic of a real copper 1964 Peace dollar that Mr. Carr made a counterfeit copy of. It's a fantasy coin and not a counterfeit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits. >>
There is no such thing as a "legal tender" 1964 Peace dollar.
Look, if you don't like them, fine. But, by now, you've made you point clear. Why do some people persist to the point where they are now just plain obnoxious. This kvetch is going to continue his harangue until everyone is in agreement with him. Hey...kinda like a liberal dem.
I think if DC, CptHenway and I went on a epic roadtrip together with beer, women and a full tank of gas that we would scorch the earth and become blood brothers, At the end of the trip Tom will still be not impressed by some of DC's work. However, I'd be buying up a strom. To me it's all good .Respect.............What are we doing next weekend boyzZ
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i> Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months without incidence >>
>>
I want the Captain to show where the 1964 Peace Dollar is still LEGAL TENDER (or was it ever?).
Upon proving this, his case will rest. Until then, forget it. I see it as a coin with altered surfaces and nothing more as real peace dollars were used in the striking of these.
I do agree that it could be deemed FRAUD based on the intent of the possessor of the fantasy piece. If you go into a store desiring to spend it on that dollar pack of gum (are we really that stupid? forget the legalities, you just spent an arm or a leg to acquire this and now you want a pack of gum? HAHAHA), sure, you then could be liable for FRAUD. Not that the store clerk would know any better, but even so, they would buy it from the til and they'd be the one smiling once they got home and did some googling.
Dan would have likely ceased production, forfeited his press, among other things by now. He's still with us and all the snide remarks about buying a house and so forth seem to stem from jealousy of his ownership and capacity of being able to mint random products like the Peace fantasy pieces.
Also, I do not own one, don't care for them, but I wanted to 'write' my opinion down on the matter and wish Captain the very best in proving his case because so far, he hasn't done much other than to say he THINKS it is counterfeit. Prove the legal tender status of it and I will then reverse my agreement even if there are no ACTUAL DENVER MINTED 1964 peace dollars.
Possession is fantasy, trying to pass it off as real is FRAUD. The same could be said for 2011 $10,000 bills printed from a printer. If they're dated 2011, I see nothing outside of fraud, but if they're dated 1934 or earlier, I could see it as counterfeit.
<< <i>Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits. >>
There is no such thing as a "legal tender" 1964 Peace dollar.
Look, if you don't like them, fine. But, by now, you've made you point clear. Why do some people persist to the point where they are now just plain obnoxious. This dolt is going to continue his harangue until everyone is in agreement with him. Hey...kinda like a liberal dem.
Cheers,
Bob >>
I did not say ""a "legal tender" 1964 Peace dollar.""
I said ""a legal tender U.S. coin design""
Please get your facts straight.
Cheers,
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I think if DC, CptHenway and I went on a epic roadtrip together with beer, women and a full tank of gas that we would scorch the earth and become blood brothers, At the end of the trip Tom will still be not impressed by some of DC's work. However, I'd be buying up a strom. To me it's all good .Respect.............What are we doing next weekend boyzZ
MJ >>
Bring the Rolls by on Monday and we'll head for Denver. Don't worry about the weather. One Christmas me and my brother left Colorado Springs on Dec. 22nd when it was 17 below and made Detroit in two days.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I said ""a legal tender U.S. coin design"" >>
I've heard of a coin being legal tender but I've never heard of a design being legal tender.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i> Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months without incidence >>
Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits. >>
The Hobby Protection Act (HPA) specifies that "numismatic replicas" be prominently stamped "COPY" on the face. However, the HPA does not stipulate how soon after initial production of the item does it have to be stamped "COPY". In other words, it is perfectly legal to make a replica, and then stamp it "COPY" years later, so long as the producer doesn't transfer ownership of the item during that time.
I have not released any "1964-D" over-strikes that weren't made from genuine Peace silver dollars. I have no plans to release any of the copper test strikes, or other items not over-struck on genuine Peace silver dollars. I will leave instructions for the heirs of my estate that my collection be sold by a major numismatic auction company, and that questionable pieces be stamped "COPY" at that time, if the auction house deems it appropriate. With any luck, that will be 30 or 40 years from now.
I vote for Daniel's next piece to feature an obverse showing a character likeness of Capt. Henway with his jealous tongue hanging out as he is destroying a pile of the 1964-D peace dollars. I'll leave the reverse design for you guys to imagine .
successful BST deals with Meltdown, Broadstruck, lordmarcovan, MisterTicToc, JINX86, BXBOY143, MBCOINS and others
Dan, as a certified Ike nut I'm interested in the evolution of die cracks. Could you post photos of the failed die's earliest crack and how the crack evolved to the massive die failure you have pictured?
And did the die crack-up gradually or all at once, quietly or with a "bang"?
Is the die now in two (or more) pieces? If so, did the pieces fall out of the press (assuming vertical press and in the ram arm)?
Lastly, how did you "abuse" that die?
THANKS! Rob
Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....
<< <i>Dan, as a certified Ike nut I'm interested in the evolution of die cracks. Could you post photos of the failed die's earliest crack and how the crack evolved to the massive die failure you have pictured?
And did the die crack-up gradually or all at once, quietly or with a "bang"?
Is the die now in two (or more) pieces? If so, did the pieces fall out of the press (assuming vertical press and in the ram arm)?
Lastly, how did you "abuse" that die?
THANKS! Rob >>
The die "abuse" consisted mainly of intentionally clashing the dies. From my experience, die clashes often result in major die cracks and breaks, especially when the tonnage force is high.
The initial die crack was just a thin line along the neck trucation. I don't have any pictures of that state. It only took a couple strikes for it to progress into a retained cud crack with thin (but visible) cracks on each side of the cud area extending about an inch up the die shank. The cud portion began to give and finally that portion of the die separated completely from the rest of the die. A couple small die fragments also fell off. All this took about 10 strikes.
I put a metal hose clamp around the die shank to hold the cud piece in place. A few additional strikes were made, but the cud section still "floated" some, and the cud portion of the struck coins was higher and the strikes on that part were weaker.
There was no unusual noise while this was going on. One time, however, when I was minting some Jefferson Nickel Hard Times Tokens, the die violently split down the middle. That sounded like a big firecracker going off.
<< <i>Does a die clash hurt the press? Or just the die? >>
If the interference distance between the dies is greater than normal, any strike (with or without a planchet) could potentially damage the press. My coin press is equipped with strain gauges connected to the controller which would immediately shut off the press in case of overload. But in such a case, damage could possibly be done before the shut-off signal is sent.
When properly adjusted for normal strikes, a die clash would only damage the dies and not the press.
<< <i>PS: All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>PS: All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you. TD >>
I'm currently debating that. For the moment, I'm enjoying looking over my collection of "oddities". If I destroy ALL the over-strikes not done over legal-tender dollars, I'd have to destroy my over-struck 1965 mint set (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half), and my additional "roll" of over-struck 1965 Kennedy's.
<< <i>PS: All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you. TD >>
I'm currently debating that. For the moment, I'm enjoying looking over my collection of "oddities". If I destroy ALL the over-strikes not done over legal-tender dollars, I'd have to destroy my over-struck 1965 mint set (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half), and my additional "roll" of over-struck 1965 Kennedy's. >>
OK, my mistake. I thought that only the broken die pair with the date missing was used to strike the copper disks. I assume then that there are dated copper strikes?
Just to change the subject, might I suggest a 2011 AMERO project?
We discussed once what you had to do to get gold planchets for the gold Ameros. Do a 27mm or so "50 AMERO" die pair and overstrike a U.S. Half Eagle, a Canadian 1/2 ounce Maple Leaf and a Mexican gold 20 Pesos. After all, the US, Canada and Mexico are going to be the biggest users of the Amero once it becomes the official currency of North America.
To save having to tie up close to $2000 in bullion per set, let people send you their coins to be overstruck for a reasonable fee plus return postage. (You might have to anneal the half eagles and the 20 pesos.)
You could also do the Mexican 1/2 Onza coins, but they are so hard to find I think you would do better overstriking the 20 Pesos. They're easy to get for close to melt value.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>PS: All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you. TD >>
I'm currently debating that. For the moment, I'm enjoying looking over my collection of "oddities". If I destroy ALL the over-strikes not done over legal-tender dollars, I'd have to destroy my over-struck 1965 mint set (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half), and my additional "roll" of over-struck 1965 Kennedy's. >>
OK, my mistake. I thought that only the broken die pair with the date missing was used to strike the copper disks. I assume then that there are dated copper strikes?
Just to change the subject, might I suggest a 2011 AMERO project?
We discussed once what you had to do to get gold planchets for the gold Ameros. Do a 27mm or so "50 AMERO" die pair and overstrike a U.S. Half Eagle, a Canadian 1/2 ounce Maple Leaf and a Mexican gold 20 Pesos. After all, the US, Canada and Mexico are going to be the biggest users of the Amero once it becomes the official currency of North America.
To save having to tie up close to $2000 in bullion per set, let people send you their coins to be overstruck for a reasonable fee plus return postage. (You might have to anneal the half eagles and the 20 pesos.)
You could also do the Mexican 1/2 Onza coins, but they are so hard to find I think you would do better overstriking the 20 Pesos. They're easy to get for close to melt value.
TD >>
The broken die was used to stamp anonymous 39mm copper and silver blanks. But the broken part of the die was intact enough, and held in place well enough, so that the "64" part of the date clearly shows on all of them that still exist (the die crack is clearly evident as well).
So at this point, the ONLY remaining coins that were not struck over legal-tender dollars, and which do not clearly show the "64", are some of the over-struck 1965 half-dollars (because some of the over-strikes were centered and the date was just off the edge). Note that these do not clearly show "ONE DOLLAR". In fact, "HALF DOLLAR" is about as evident as "ONE DOLLAR" on them. These were done a while ago with Die Pair 1 (none released).
I've previously thought about an Amero set over-struck on silver Onzas / Eagles / Maple-Leafs. Something similar in gold would be possible. The Maple-leafs are a bit smaller (and thicker). I'd have to roll them out a little bit before over-striking. Gold coin buyers expect "perfect" coins (considering the cost). The Peace dollars were over-struck with an almost-identical design. When overstriking coins with completely different designs, there is more evidence of the under-type. I'm not sure how well that would be received. Maybe instead of a complete over-strike, a counter-stamp over part of the coins would be better.
there is some controversy as to how many "types" constitute a complete set of your Fantasy Dollars .........
I'm in the 5 group , but others are wanting to include the "bag handled" examples to make the number 7 .
Since you made them , you should be the one to establish the correct number . >>
I would say that the "Bulk-Handled" coins do not constitute a different variety. They are simply the same variety in a different grade. Anyone could make one out of a Die 5 or Die 6 "High Luster" coin by simply putting it in their pocket with a bunch of bronze cents and carrying it around for a while.
<< <i>Oh man; the viente pesos pieces are so nice! I'm sad thinking about their destruction.
Smash a gold buffalo or a canadian maple leaf if you have to destroy a 'coin'. >>
I would hesitate to destroy nicer 20-Peso gold coins.
I've minted over silver Maple-leafs before. It is hard on the dies (due to the required tonnage), but it does work reasonably well. Obliterating the Queen's image does not give me any pause.
Actually, though, when it comes to over-striking foreign coins, I'm thinking about some type of political token over-struck on modern circulating Chinese coins.
Looking at your 2011 AMERO coins,,,, all are Proof - Like Finish,,,,, will there be any Satin coins?
I prefer the Satin Finish over the Proof Like coins.
GrandAm >>
Yes, later in the year there will be satin-finish versions of the Capped Bust design. Probably in 25mm, 30mm, and 39mm sizes. I may change the reverse design for those.
<< <i>PS: All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you. TD >>
I'm currently debating that. For the moment, I'm enjoying looking over my collection of "oddities". If I destroy ALL the over-strikes not done over legal-tender dollars, I'd have to destroy my over-struck 1965 mint set (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half), and my additional "roll" of over-struck 1965 Kennedy's. >>
OK, my mistake. I thought that only the broken die pair with the date missing was used to strike the copper disks. I assume then that there are dated copper strikes?
Just to change the subject, might I suggest a 2011 AMERO project?
We discussed once what you had to do to get gold planchets for the gold Ameros. Do a 27mm or so "50 AMERO" die pair and overstrike a U.S. Half Eagle, a Canadian 1/2 ounce Maple Leaf and a Mexican gold 20 Pesos. After all, the US, Canada and Mexico are going to be the biggest users of the Amero once it becomes the official currency of North America.
To save having to tie up close to $2000 in bullion per set, let people send you their coins to be overstruck for a reasonable fee plus return postage. (You might have to anneal the half eagles and the 20 pesos.)
You could also do the Mexican 1/2 Onza coins, but they are so hard to find I think you would do better overstriking the 20 Pesos. They're easy to get for close to melt value.
TD >>
The broken die was used to stamp anonymous 39mm copper and silver blanks. But the broken part of the die was intact enough, and held in place well enough, so that the "64" part of the date clearly shows on all of them that still exist (the die crack is clearly evident as well).
So at this point, the ONLY remaining coins that were not struck over legal-tender dollars, and which do not clearly show the "64", are some of the over-struck 1965 half-dollars (because some of the over-strikes were centered and the date was just off the edge). Note that these do not clearly show "ONE DOLLAR". In fact, "HALF DOLLAR" is about as evident as "ONE DOLLAR" on them. These were done a while ago with Die Pair 1 (none released).
I've previously thought about an Amero set over-struck on silver Onzas / Eagles / Maple-Leafs. Something similar in gold would be possible. The Maple-leafs are a bit smaller (and thicker). I'd have to roll them out a little bit before over-striking. Gold coin buyers expect "perfect" coins (considering the cost). The Peace dollars were over-struck with an almost-identical design. When overstriking coins with completely different designs, there is more evidence of the under-type. I'm not sure how well that would be received. Maybe instead of a complete over-strike, a counter-stamp over part of the coins would be better. >>
OK, so all of the strikes on copper blanks have been destroyed, as well as all silver blank strikes. I guess I did not know that the strikes on silver blanks had existed at one time. I would have been even more upset at them as being even more dangerous counterfeits. That said, the destruction of all strikes that were not overstrikes on genuine Peace dollars removes my major objection to what you have done in this program. I accept your word that they have been destroyed, and will say no more about them.
The overstrikes on the 1965 coins do not bother me at all. They are not dangerous, and could be considered as really big counterstamps. Who says that a counterstamp die has to be smaller than the host coin? If you feel like adding COPY to them, go right ahead, but I do not worry that these are going to fool anybody.
(The danger that some genuine 1964-D dollars might have been accidentally struck on fractional coins does not exist. The dollars were struck in an annex building, away from other production.)
As to overstriking gold, the soft 24kt half ounce maple might pancake out enough during one or two strikes that pre-flattening them would not be necessary. If you make the dies you could always strike one and see what happens, and then adjust your technique accordingly. I have no idea if annealing 24kt gold would make it much softer, but if you did decide to anneal the other two coins you could anneal the maple as well.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Oh man; the viente pesos pieces are so nice! I'm sad thinking about their destruction.
Smash a gold buffalo or a canadian maple leaf if you have to destroy a 'coin'. >>
I would hesitate to destroy nicer 20-Peso gold coins.
I've minted over silver Maple-leafs before. It is hard on the dies (due to the required tonnage), but it does work reasonably well. Obliterating the Queen's image does not give me any pause.
Actually, though, when it comes to over-striking foreign coins, I'm thinking about some type of political token over-struck on modern circulating Chinese coins. >>
Or, how about a satirical Chines issue struck in cadmium and lead paint?
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>OK, so all of the strikes on copper blanks have been destroyed, as well as all silver blank strikes. I guess I did not know that the strikes on silver blanks had existed at one time. I would have been even more upset at them as being even more dangerous counterfeits. That said, the destruction of all strikes that were not overstrikes on genuine Peace dollars removes my major objection to what you have done in this program. I accept your word that they have been destroyed, and will say no more about them.
The overstrikes on the 1965 coins do not bother me at all. They are not dangerous, and could be considered as really big counterstamps. Who says that a counterstamp die has to be smaller than the host coin? If you feel like adding COPY to them, go right ahead, but I do not worry that these are going to fool anybody.
(The danger that some genuine 1964-D dollars might have been accidentally struck on fractional coins does not exist. The dollars were struck in an annex building, away from other production.) TD >>
>>>OK, so all of the strikes on copper blanks have been destroyed, as well as all silver blank strikes.
At this point, not all of them. The ones that were destroyed were all the ones that had the cud completely obscuring the "64".
There are still some with retained cud die breaks (with the "64" clearly showing) that were broad-struck on 39mm copper blanks and 39mm 999 silver blanks (as well as steel washers, coin club medals, etc). Note that the original silver dollars were about 38mm, so these blanks are 1mm bigger. And the Mint has never used 39mm 27-gram pure copper blanks, or 39mm 31.1-gram pure silver blanks, for any purpose - so I don't think they would fool anyone. But regardless, final disposition of the pieces in question has yet to be determined.
So matte finish & semiproof are the "key" to the series? Huh.
They're all very nice, dcarr. Awesome run, awesome idea, awesome execution. So, so glad you opted not to do the gold spray paint version. The idea of gold plating and then striking is intriguing. But it just didn't seem to fit in this series of things that could very well have been but weren't.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
<< <i> So at this point, the ONLY remaining coins that were not struck over legal-tender dollars, and which do not clearly show the "64", are some of the over-struck 1965 half-dollars (because some of the over-strikes were centered and the date was just off the edge). Note that these do not clearly show "ONE DOLLAR". In fact, "HALF DOLLAR" is about as evident as "ONE DOLLAR" on them. These were done a while ago with Die Pair 1 (none released). >>
I guess I misunderstood this paragraph to mean that the only remaining coins that were not struck over Peace dollars were the ones struck over 1965 half dollars and/or a 1965 mint set. I did not understand it to mean that dated strikes on non-legal-tender copper and silver disks still exist. I still find those objectionable.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
If you are going by my numbers I only counted the (5) types released for sale. This does not counted the various trial strikes and that were not released. This is where the difference is.
<< <i>sure , Mr. Delory is free to express his opinion , but to constantly pound the issue with his disdain for the coins on nearly every thread about them serves no positive outcome ;
and I think is hateful in nature .
Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months
without incidence , unless you count the squealing objections of dubious swinish nature voiced on these boards . >>
I disagree. I don't think it is "hateful" and, to use YOUR own argument, saying so could be libelous since that could impugn the good Capt's reputation and affect his ability to do business in the field. Note: I think that both arguments are stupid and neither is really libelous and am using the above as a point to that fact.
Just because there is a large faction that feel that these are problematic from a numismatic POV, and are likely very validly able to be considered counterfeits, and some state as such any time someone tries to trump them up, does not mean it is "hateful". It means that some folks believe that things should be kept clear in the field. If some folks want to drop real money on fake crap, then that's their choice. To parade it around like it is real will invoke others' disagreement to such.
These are "rounds". They are ripoffs of coins (doesn't matter if they are overstruck on real USMint issued product or not). I really feel for some folks who think these are so real and so cool. It is pretty telling.
<< <i>I really feel for some folks who think these are so real and so cool. It is pretty telling.
I can "tell" you this ...........
The Fantasy Dollars are works of art , made by a master craftsman , struck over real U.S. Peace Dollars .
They are no different then any other great work of art , painting, sculpture, etc .
They are a real joy to hold in hand and behold.
In that sense , they are real, and as cool as any coins I have ever owned >>
Agree. Unfortunately, not everyone gets it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Do these numbers include the less than perfect MS63 examples that were sold at a discounted price?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I really feel for some folks who think these are so real and so cool. It is pretty telling.
I can "tell" you this ...........
The Fantasy Dollars are works of art , made by a master craftsman , struck over real U.S. Peace Dollars . >>
If that were true, I would have continued to let this lie. Unfortunately, some were struck on copper and silver disks.
Mr. Carr can alleviate the problem by destroying the ones struck on copper and silver disks.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Now you've got me wondering, Captn. Were the 12 Gold Sacagaweas legal? >>
That is an excellent question. Because they were struck before the coin was issued for circulation, and because there are numerous 19th century precedents for new coin designs to be struck in alternate metals, and because they were struck at the direction of the Director of the Mint, I don't think you could ever get any court to say that they were "illegal." However, they were never authorized by Congress.
The picture of me in there was taken by my late wife Jean.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
<< <i> Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months without incidence >>
Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits.
<< <i>
<< <i> Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months without incidence >>
Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits. >>
Show us a pic of a real copper 1964 Peace dollar that Mr. Carr made a counterfeit copy of. It's a fantasy coin and not a counterfeit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits. >>
There is no such thing as a "legal tender" 1964 Peace dollar.
Look, if you don't like them, fine. But, by now, you've made you point clear. Why do some people persist to the point where they are now just plain obnoxious. This kvetch is going to continue his harangue until everyone is in agreement with him. Hey...kinda like a liberal dem.
Cheers,
Bob
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i> Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months without incidence >>
>>
I want the Captain to show where the 1964 Peace Dollar is still LEGAL TENDER (or was it ever?).
Upon proving this, his case will rest. Until then, forget it. I see it as a coin with altered surfaces and nothing more as real peace dollars were used in the striking of these.
I do agree that it could be deemed FRAUD based on the intent of the possessor of the fantasy piece. If you go into a store desiring to spend it on that dollar pack of gum (are we really that stupid? forget the legalities, you just spent an arm or a leg to acquire this and now you want a pack of gum? HAHAHA), sure, you then could be liable for FRAUD. Not that the store clerk would know any better, but even so, they would buy it from the til and they'd be the one smiling once they got home and did some googling.
Dan would have likely ceased production, forfeited his press, among other things by now. He's still with us and all the snide remarks about buying a house and so forth seem to stem from jealousy of his ownership and capacity of being able to mint random products like the Peace fantasy pieces.
Also, I do not own one, don't care for them, but I wanted to 'write' my opinion down on the matter and wish Captain the very best in proving his case because so far, he hasn't done much other than to say he THINKS it is counterfeit. Prove the legal tender status of it and I will then reverse my agreement even if there are no ACTUAL DENVER MINTED 1964 peace dollars.
Possession is fantasy, trying to pass it off as real is FRAUD. The same could be said for 2011 $10,000 bills printed from a printer. If they're dated 2011, I see nothing outside of fraud, but if they're dated 1934 or earlier, I could see it as counterfeit.
Just my two cents on a subject I try to avoid.
edited
<< <i>
<< <i>Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits. >>
There is no such thing as a "legal tender" 1964 Peace dollar.
Look, if you don't like them, fine. But, by now, you've made you point clear. Why do some people persist to the point where they are now just plain obnoxious. This dolt is going to continue his harangue until everyone is in agreement with him. Hey...kinda like a liberal dem.
Cheers,
Bob >>
I did not say ""a "legal tender" 1964 Peace dollar.""
I said ""a legal tender U.S. coin design""
Please get your facts straight.
Cheers,
TD
<< <i>I think if DC, CptHenway and I went on a epic roadtrip together with beer, women and a full tank of gas that we would scorch the earth and become blood brothers, At the end of the trip Tom will still be not impressed by some of DC's work. However, I'd be buying up a strom. To me it's all good .Respect.............What are we doing next weekend boyzZ
MJ >>
Bring the Rolls by on Monday and we'll head for Denver. Don't worry about the weather. One Christmas me and my brother left Colorado Springs on Dec. 22nd when it was 17 below and made Detroit in two days.
TD
<< <i>I said ""a legal tender U.S. coin design"" >>
I've heard of a coin being legal tender but I've never heard of a design being legal tender.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i> Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months without incidence >>
Still waiting for an explanation as to why Mr. Carr's strikes of a legal tender U.S. coin design on copper disks are not counterfeits. >>
The Hobby Protection Act (HPA) specifies that "numismatic replicas" be prominently stamped "COPY" on the face. However, the HPA does not stipulate how soon after initial production of the item does it have to be stamped "COPY". In other words, it is perfectly legal to make a replica, and then stamp it "COPY" years later, so long as the producer doesn't transfer ownership of the item during that time.
I have not released any "1964-D" over-strikes that weren't made from genuine Peace silver dollars. I have no plans to release any of the copper test strikes, or other items not over-struck on genuine Peace silver dollars. I will leave instructions for the heirs of my estate that my collection be sold by a major numismatic auction company, and that questionable pieces be stamped "COPY" at that time, if the auction house deems it appropriate. With any luck, that will be 30 or 40 years from now.
I'll leave the reverse design for you guys to imagine .
And did the die crack-up gradually or all at once, quietly or with a "bang"?
Is the die now in two (or more) pieces? If so, did the pieces fall out of the press (assuming vertical press and in the ram arm)?
Lastly, how did you "abuse" that die?
THANKS! Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>Dan, as a certified Ike nut I'm interested in the evolution of die cracks. Could you post photos of the failed die's earliest crack and how the crack evolved to the massive die failure you have pictured?
And did the die crack-up gradually or all at once, quietly or with a "bang"?
Is the die now in two (or more) pieces? If so, did the pieces fall out of the press (assuming vertical press and in the ram arm)?
Lastly, how did you "abuse" that die?
THANKS! Rob >>
The die "abuse" consisted mainly of intentionally clashing the dies.
From my experience, die clashes often result in major die cracks and breaks,
especially when the tonnage force is high.
The initial die crack was just a thin line along the neck trucation. I don't have any pictures of that state.
It only took a couple strikes for it to progress into a retained cud crack with thin (but visible) cracks on each
side of the cud area extending about an inch up the die shank. The cud portion began to give and finally
that portion of the die separated completely from the rest of the die. A couple small die fragments also
fell off. All this took about 10 strikes.
I put a metal hose clamp around the die shank to hold the cud piece in place. A few additional
strikes were made, but the cud section still "floated" some, and the cud portion of the struck coins
was higher and the strikes on that part were weaker.
There was no unusual noise while this was going on. One time, however, when I was minting some
Jefferson Nickel Hard Times Tokens, the die violently split down the middle. That sounded like a big
firecracker going off.
<< <i>Does a die clash hurt the press? Or just the die? >>
If the interference distance between the dies is greater than normal,
any strike (with or without a planchet) could potentially damage the press.
My coin press is equipped with strain gauges connected to the controller
which would immediately shut off the press in case of overload. But in
such a case, damage could possibly be done before the shut-off signal is sent.
When properly adjusted for normal strikes, a die clash would only damage
the dies and not the press.
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed.
<< <i>PS:
All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>PS:
All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you.
TD >>
I'm currently debating that. For the moment, I'm enjoying looking over my collection of "oddities".
If I destroy ALL the over-strikes not done over legal-tender dollars, I'd have to destroy my over-struck
1965 mint set (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half), and my additional "roll" of over-struck 1965 Kennedy's.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PS:
All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you.
TD >>
I'm currently debating that. For the moment, I'm enjoying looking over my collection of "oddities".
If I destroy ALL the over-strikes not done over legal-tender dollars, I'd have to destroy my over-struck
1965 mint set (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half), and my additional "roll" of over-struck 1965 Kennedy's. >>
OK, my mistake. I thought that only the broken die pair with the date missing was used to strike the copper disks. I assume then that there are dated copper strikes?
Just to change the subject, might I suggest a 2011 AMERO project?
We discussed once what you had to do to get gold planchets for the gold Ameros. Do a 27mm or so "50 AMERO" die pair and overstrike a U.S. Half Eagle, a Canadian 1/2 ounce Maple Leaf and a Mexican gold 20 Pesos. After all, the US, Canada and Mexico are going to be the biggest users of the Amero once it becomes the official currency of North America.
To save having to tie up close to $2000 in bullion per set, let people send you their coins to be overstruck for a reasonable fee plus return postage. (You might have to anneal the half eagles and the 20 pesos.)
You could also do the Mexican 1/2 Onza coins, but they are so hard to find I think you would do better overstriking the 20 Pesos. They're easy to get for close to melt value.
TD
there is some controversy as to how many "types" constitute a complete set of your Fantasy Dollars .........
I'm in the 5 group , but others are wanting to include the "bag handled" examples to make the number 7 .
Since you made them , you should be the one to establish the correct number .
Smash a gold buffalo or a canadian maple leaf if you have to destroy a 'coin'.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PS:
All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you.
TD >>
I'm currently debating that. For the moment, I'm enjoying looking over my collection of "oddities".
If I destroy ALL the over-strikes not done over legal-tender dollars, I'd have to destroy my over-struck
1965 mint set (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half), and my additional "roll" of over-struck 1965 Kennedy's. >>
OK, my mistake. I thought that only the broken die pair with the date missing was used to strike the copper disks. I assume then that there are dated copper strikes?
Just to change the subject, might I suggest a 2011 AMERO project?
We discussed once what you had to do to get gold planchets for the gold Ameros. Do a 27mm or so "50 AMERO" die pair and overstrike a U.S. Half Eagle, a Canadian 1/2 ounce Maple Leaf and a Mexican gold 20 Pesos. After all, the US, Canada and Mexico are going to be the biggest users of the Amero once it becomes the official currency of North America.
To save having to tie up close to $2000 in bullion per set, let people send you their coins to be overstruck for a reasonable fee plus return postage. (You might have to anneal the half eagles and the 20 pesos.)
You could also do the Mexican 1/2 Onza coins, but they are so hard to find I think you would do better overstriking the 20 Pesos. They're easy to get for close to melt value.
TD >>
The broken die was used to stamp anonymous 39mm copper and silver blanks. But the broken part of the die was intact enough, and held in place well enough, so that the "64" part of the date clearly shows on all of them that still exist (the die crack is clearly evident as well).
So at this point, the ONLY remaining coins that were not struck over legal-tender dollars, and which do not clearly show the "64", are some of the over-struck 1965 half-dollars (because some of the over-strikes were centered and the date was just off the edge). Note that these do not clearly show "ONE DOLLAR". In fact, "HALF DOLLAR" is about as evident as "ONE DOLLAR" on them. These were done a while ago with Die Pair 1 (none released).
I've previously thought about an Amero set over-struck on silver Onzas / Eagles / Maple-Leafs. Something similar in gold would be possible. The Maple-leafs are a bit smaller (and thicker). I'd have to roll them out a little bit before over-striking. Gold coin buyers expect "perfect" coins (considering the cost). The Peace dollars were over-struck with an almost-identical design. When overstriking coins with completely different designs, there is more evidence of the under-type. I'm not sure how well that would be received. Maybe instead of a complete over-strike, a counter-stamp over part of the coins would be better.
<< <i>D.Carr :
there is some controversy as to how many "types" constitute a complete set of your Fantasy Dollars .........
I'm in the 5 group , but others are wanting to include the "bag handled" examples to make the number 7 .
Since you made them , you should be the one to establish the correct number . >>
I would say that the "Bulk-Handled" coins do not constitute a different variety.
They are simply the same variety in a different grade. Anyone could make one out of
a Die 5 or Die 6 "High Luster" coin by simply putting it in their pocket with a bunch of
bronze cents and carrying it around for a while.
Looking at your 2011 AMERO coins,,,, all are Proof - Like Finish,,,,, will there be any Satin coins?
I prefer the Satin Finish over the Proof Like coins.
GrandAm
<< <i>Oh man; the viente pesos pieces are so nice! I'm sad thinking about their destruction.
Smash a gold buffalo or a canadian maple leaf if you have to destroy a 'coin'. >>
I would hesitate to destroy nicer 20-Peso gold coins.
I've minted over silver Maple-leafs before. It is hard on the dies (due to the required tonnage),
but it does work reasonably well. Obliterating the Queen's image does not give me any pause.
Actually, though, when it comes to over-striking foreign coins, I'm thinking about some type of
political token over-struck on modern circulating Chinese coins.
<< <i>Dan,
Looking at your 2011 AMERO coins,,,, all are Proof - Like Finish,,,,, will there be any Satin coins?
I prefer the Satin Finish over the Proof Like coins.
GrandAm
Yes, later in the year there will be satin-finish versions of the Capped Bust design.
Probably in 25mm, 30mm, and 39mm sizes. I may change the reverse design for those.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PS:
All cud strikes that do not show the full date (like the copper one shown at the beginning of this thread) have been destroyed. >>
Have all of the copper (i.e., counterfeit) strikes been destroyed? If so, thank you.
TD >>
I'm currently debating that. For the moment, I'm enjoying looking over my collection of "oddities".
If I destroy ALL the over-strikes not done over legal-tender dollars, I'd have to destroy my over-struck
1965 mint set (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half), and my additional "roll" of over-struck 1965 Kennedy's. >>
OK, my mistake. I thought that only the broken die pair with the date missing was used to strike the copper disks. I assume then that there are dated copper strikes?
Just to change the subject, might I suggest a 2011 AMERO project?
We discussed once what you had to do to get gold planchets for the gold Ameros. Do a 27mm or so "50 AMERO" die pair and overstrike a U.S. Half Eagle, a Canadian 1/2 ounce Maple Leaf and a Mexican gold 20 Pesos. After all, the US, Canada and Mexico are going to be the biggest users of the Amero once it becomes the official currency of North America.
To save having to tie up close to $2000 in bullion per set, let people send you their coins to be overstruck for a reasonable fee plus return postage. (You might have to anneal the half eagles and the 20 pesos.)
You could also do the Mexican 1/2 Onza coins, but they are so hard to find I think you would do better overstriking the 20 Pesos. They're easy to get for close to melt value.
TD >>
The broken die was used to stamp anonymous 39mm copper and silver blanks. But the broken part of the die was intact enough, and held in place well enough, so that the "64" part of the date clearly shows on all of them that still exist (the die crack is clearly evident as well).
So at this point, the ONLY remaining coins that were not struck over legal-tender dollars, and which do not clearly show the "64", are some of the over-struck 1965 half-dollars (because some of the over-strikes were centered and the date was just off the edge). Note that these do not clearly show "ONE DOLLAR". In fact, "HALF DOLLAR" is about as evident as "ONE DOLLAR" on them. These were done a while ago with Die Pair 1 (none released).
I've previously thought about an Amero set over-struck on silver Onzas / Eagles / Maple-Leafs. Something similar in gold would be possible. The Maple-leafs are a bit smaller (and thicker). I'd have to roll them out a little bit before over-striking. Gold coin buyers expect "perfect" coins (considering the cost). The Peace dollars were over-struck with an almost-identical design. When overstriking coins with completely different designs, there is more evidence of the under-type. I'm not sure how well that would be received. Maybe instead of a complete over-strike, a counter-stamp over part of the coins would be better. >>
OK, so all of the strikes on copper blanks have been destroyed, as well as all silver blank strikes. I guess I did not know that the strikes on silver blanks had existed at one time. I would have been even more upset at them as being even more dangerous counterfeits. That said, the destruction of all strikes that were not overstrikes on genuine Peace dollars removes my major objection to what you have done in this program. I accept your word that they have been destroyed, and will say no more about them.
The overstrikes on the 1965 coins do not bother me at all. They are not dangerous, and could be considered as really big counterstamps. Who says that a counterstamp die has to be smaller than the host coin? If you feel like adding COPY to them, go right ahead, but I do not worry that these are going to fool anybody.
(The danger that some genuine 1964-D dollars might have been accidentally struck on fractional coins does not exist. The dollars were struck in an annex building, away from other production.)
As to overstriking gold, the soft 24kt half ounce maple might pancake out enough during one or two strikes that pre-flattening them would not be necessary. If you make the dies you could always strike one and see what happens, and then adjust your technique accordingly. I have no idea if annealing 24kt gold would make it much softer, but if you did decide to anneal the other two coins you could anneal the maple as well.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>Oh man; the viente pesos pieces are so nice! I'm sad thinking about their destruction.
Smash a gold buffalo or a canadian maple leaf if you have to destroy a 'coin'. >>
I would hesitate to destroy nicer 20-Peso gold coins.
I've minted over silver Maple-leafs before. It is hard on the dies (due to the required tonnage),
but it does work reasonably well. Obliterating the Queen's image does not give me any pause.
Actually, though, when it comes to over-striking foreign coins, I'm thinking about some type of
political token over-struck on modern circulating Chinese coins. >>
Or, how about a satirical Chines issue struck in cadmium and lead paint?
TD
Type #1 = Die Pair #5 Subdued Luster Original "D" and reverse die,,,, 222 pcs struck,,,,, 200 released
Type #2 = Die Pair #5 High Luster Original "D" and reverse die,,,, 789 pcs struck,,,,, 700 released
Type #3 = Die Pair #6 Uncirculated Finish & new reverse die,,,, 542 pcs struck,,,,, 450 released
Type #4 = Die Pair #6 Proof Like Finish & new reverse die,,,, 183 pcs struck,,,,, 128 released
Type #5 = Die Pair #6 Matte Proof Finish & new reverse die,,,, 149 pcs struck,,,,, 132 released
Am I correct on this?
GrandAm
<< <i>OK, so all of the strikes on copper blanks have been destroyed, as well as all silver blank strikes. I guess I did not know that the strikes on silver blanks had existed at one time. I would have been even more upset at them as being even more dangerous counterfeits. That said, the destruction of all strikes that were not overstrikes on genuine Peace dollars removes my major objection to what you have done in this program. I accept your word that they have been destroyed, and will say no more about them.
The overstrikes on the 1965 coins do not bother me at all. They are not dangerous, and could be considered as really big counterstamps. Who says that a counterstamp die has to be smaller than the host coin? If you feel like adding COPY to them, go right ahead, but I do not worry that these are going to fool anybody.
(The danger that some genuine 1964-D dollars might have been accidentally struck on fractional coins does not exist. The dollars were struck in an annex building, away from other production.)
TD >>
>>>OK, so all of the strikes on copper blanks have been destroyed, as well as all silver blank strikes.
At this point, not all of them. The ones that were destroyed were all the ones that had the cud completely obscuring the "64".
There are still some with retained cud die breaks (with the "64" clearly showing) that were broad-struck on 39mm copper blanks and 39mm 999 silver blanks (as well as steel washers, coin club medals, etc). Note that the original silver dollars were about 38mm, so these blanks are 1mm bigger. And the Mint has never used 39mm 27-gram pure copper blanks, or 39mm 31.1-gram pure silver blanks, for any purpose - so I don't think they would fool anyone. But regardless, final disposition of the pieces in question has yet to be determined.
<< <i>Or, how about a satirical Chines issue struck in cadmium and lead paint?
TD >>
In a melamine holder.
<< <i>Ok, Dan makes it offical,,,,,, 5 types of the 1964-D Peace Dollar. As I understand it they are as follows:
Type #1 = Die Pair #5 Subdued Luster Original "D" and reverse die,,,, 222 pcs struck,,,,, 200 released
Type #2 = Die Pair #5 High Luster Original "D" and reverse die,,,, 789 pcs struck,,,,, 700 released
Type #3 = Die Pair #6 Uncirculated Finish & new reverse die,,,, 542 pcs struck,,,,, 450 released
Type #4 = Die Pair #6 Proof Like Finish & new reverse die,,,, 183 pcs struck,,,,, 128 released
Type #5 = Die Pair #6 Matte Proof Finish & new reverse die,,,, 149 pcs struck,,,,, 132 released
Am I correct on this?
GrandAm
Yes.
I need to audit my figures one more time, and they might possibly change by a couple coins
here or there, but that is basically it.
Note that it is sometimes hard to tell the two Die-5 types apart, depending on the die state.
They're all very nice, dcarr. Awesome run, awesome idea, awesome execution. So, so glad you opted not to do the gold spray paint version. The idea of gold plating and then striking is intriguing. But it just didn't seem to fit in this series of things that could very well have been but weren't.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>
So at this point, the ONLY remaining coins that were not struck over legal-tender dollars, and which do not clearly show the "64", are some of the over-struck 1965 half-dollars (because some of the over-strikes were centered and the date was just off the edge). Note that these do not clearly show "ONE DOLLAR". In fact, "HALF DOLLAR" is about as evident as "ONE DOLLAR" on them. These were done a while ago with Die Pair 1 (none released).
>>
I guess I misunderstood this paragraph to mean that the only remaining coins that were not struck over Peace dollars were the ones struck over 1965 half dollars and/or a 1965 mint set. I did not understand it to mean that dated strikes on non-legal-tender copper and silver disks still exist. I still find those objectionable.
TD
Cheers,
Brian
<< <i>So about 1600 coins, that is 400 short of the 2K estimated mintage? Why?
Cheers,
Brian >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are going by my numbers I only counted the (5) types released for sale. This does not counted the various trial strikes and that were not released. This is where the difference is.
GrandAm
<< <i>sure , Mr. Delory is free to express his opinion , but to constantly pound the issue with his disdain for the coins on nearly every thread about them serves no positive outcome ;
and I think is hateful in nature .
Additionally , to accuse D.Carr of outright counterfeiting is libelous , since counterfeiting is illegal and Mr. Carr has been selling his fantasy pieces for several months
without incidence , unless you count the squealing objections of dubious swinish nature voiced on these boards . >>
I disagree. I don't think it is "hateful" and, to use YOUR own argument, saying so could be libelous since that could impugn the good Capt's reputation and affect his ability to do business in the field.
Note: I think that both arguments are stupid and neither is really libelous and am using the above as a point to that fact.
Just because there is a large faction that feel that these are problematic from a numismatic POV, and are likely very validly able to be considered counterfeits, and some state as such any time someone tries to trump them up, does not mean it is "hateful". It means that some folks believe that things should be kept clear in the field.
If some folks want to drop real money on fake crap, then that's their choice. To parade it around like it is real will invoke others' disagreement to such.
These are "rounds". They are ripoffs of coins (doesn't matter if they are overstruck on real USMint issued product or not). I really feel for some folks who think these are so real and so cool. It is pretty telling.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
These are beautiful piece in coin very much in his vein...
Well, just Love coins, period.
I can "tell" you this ...........
The Fantasy Dollars are works of art , made by a master craftsman , struck over real U.S. Peace Dollars .
They are no different then any other great work of art , painting, sculpture, etc .
They are a real joy to hold in hand and behold.
In that sense , they are real, and as cool as any coins I have ever owned
K
<< <i>I really feel for some folks who think these are so real and so cool. It is pretty telling.
I can "tell" you this ...........
The Fantasy Dollars are works of art , made by a master craftsman , struck over real U.S. Peace Dollars .
They are no different then any other great work of art , painting, sculpture, etc .
They are a real joy to hold in hand and behold.
In that sense , they are real, and as cool as any coins I have ever owned >>
Agree. Unfortunately, not everyone gets it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Ok, Dan makes it offical,,,,,, 5 types of the 1964-D Peace Dollar. As I understand it they are as follows:
Type #1 = Die Pair #5 Subdued Luster Original "D" and reverse die,,,, 222 pcs struck,,,,, 200 released
Type #2 = Die Pair #5 High Luster Original "D" and reverse die,,,, 789 pcs struck,,,,, 700 released (High Grade 589 / Bag Handled 200)
Type #3 = Die Pair #6 Uncirculated Finish & new reverse die,,,, 542 pcs struck,,,,, 450 released (High Grade 379 / Bag Handled 163)
Type #4 = Die Pair #6 Proof Like Finish & new reverse die,,,, 183 pcs struck,,,,, 128 released
Type #5 = Die Pair #6 Matte Proof Finish & new reverse die,,,, 149 pcs struck,,,,, 132 released
Am I correct on this?
GrandAm
Made a little adjustment,hope you don't mind...
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Total Released = 1610? Is that it, then? >>
Do these numbers include the less than perfect MS63 examples that were sold at a discounted price?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I really feel for some folks who think these are so real and so cool. It is pretty telling.
I can "tell" you this ...........
The Fantasy Dollars are works of art , made by a master craftsman , struck over real U.S. Peace Dollars . >>
If that were true, I would have continued to let this lie. Unfortunately, some were struck on copper and silver disks.
Mr. Carr can alleviate the problem by destroying the ones struck on copper and silver disks.
TD
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Now you've got me wondering, Captn. Were the 12 Gold Sacagaweas legal? >>
That is an excellent question. Because they were struck before the coin was issued for circulation, and because there are numerous 19th century precedents for new coin designs to be struck in alternate metals, and because they were struck at the direction of the Director of the Mint, I don't think you could ever get any court to say that they were "illegal." However, they were never authorized by Congress.
Here is the history of them:
linky
The picture of me in there was taken by my late wife Jean.
TD