Where are all the new collectors? (not investors!)
291fifth
Posts: 24,284 ✭✭✭✭✭
The State Quarters program was supposed to generate hoards of new coin collectors. Where are they? The only new people I ever see at shows and in local shops are interested in bullion, bullion and more bullion.
Is there any evidence that significant numbers of new collectors of numismatic coins are active?
What do you see happening?
Is there any evidence that significant numbers of new collectors of numismatic coins are active?
What do you see happening?
All glory is fleeting.
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Comments
<< <i>It's a misnomer to classify State Quarter collectors as coin collectors. >>
Completely wrong! Have a nice day.
and, they are NOT collecting those quarters (not now anyway).
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<< <i>It's a misnomer to classify State Quarter collectors as coin collectors. >>
Completely wrong! Have a nice day. >>
Really? .... So where are the millions of "coin collectors" who only purchased or collected the State Quarters?
<< <i>Havent you witnessed new collectors joining this forum recently?
and, they are NOT collecting those quarters (not now anyway). >>
I sure have, I've seen them post in the PM forum or in the 5 oz America the Beautiful bullion thread.
Granted, just like every year, new blood will arrive & perhaps the Quarter program had a lot to do with it, but it did not generate a substantial influx into coin collecting. NN & CW subscriptions are still flat.
<< <i>The State Quarters program was supposed to generate hoards of new coin collectors. Where are they? The only new people I ever see at shows and in local shops are interested in bullion, bullion and more bullion.
Is there any evidence that significant numbers of new collectors of numismatic coins are active?
What do you see happening? >>
...perhaps 'flipper' would be a more accurate description.
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<< <i>It's a misnomer to classify State Quarter collectors as coin collectors. >>
Completely wrong! Have a nice day. >>
Really? .... So where are the millions of "coin collectors" who only purchased or collected the State Quarters? >>
Not sure I get your question.
New collectors arrive all the time. Some of those who were drawn to coins through the state quarter program have stayed, some have strayed to bullion, some have found new interests. Life goes on.
Lance.
It goes back to the definition of coin collector. Those that go to coin shows tend to be a small group. Subtract out those that are primarily interested in bullion and I'd guess show going coin collectors might number 100,000, that have been to more than one show in the last two years. There is a big difference between someone that puts away an interesting coin into a jar at face value, from a show going collector that will spend $100 or more on a collector coin. The jar person doesn't move to collector category until they at least buy their own album (not a gift) and/or spend more than $1 over face value on a coin. They don't move to the show going category until they are spending considerable time and money on their hobby.
The other question is, how can one person observing at local shows, tell who is a new collector, and what got them interested and what they are currently interested in? Are you asking every one of them? Many collectors do both numismatic coins and bullion. Unless a person asks, how can a person tell how long another has been collecting and what got them interested? Sounds like the answer to the question fits the narrative playing in the OP's head. People often observe what they are looking for. It is not a surprise that bullion is hot when prices are up 5x to 9x. Most local shops make their money on bullion, and numismatic coins are a backwater.
Prices tell part of the story. If there were really very few new collectors since 1999 (start of the quarters), prices for collector coins would likely be much lower as older collectors continue to pass away. If magazine subscriptions are flat, that means a bunch of new subscribers. Many magazines and newspapers have seen their subscriber numbers cut in half or more during the Internet boom.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
State quarters program begins....many people get interested in coins, especially young people aged 8 to 12.....(group one)
those young people go on with their lives, and
20 years later, when they're out of college and living the American Dream [two kids between the ages of 8 and 12 - (group 2), and them (group one) being up to their ears in debt] they again become interested in coins but can't afford them.....but get into cheap collecting with their kids
10 years later when their kids are almost grown and they start having enough money for "real coins", they start coming here.......thirty years after the state quarters program began
twenty years later, group 2 has enough money to start buying real coins and ends up here...
So, to summarize, the state quarters program got a lot of people interested in filling quarter boards up but not until 30 years later will you see those collectors being here (this place is just the tip of the iceberg) and then twenty more years later, you'll see group two coming here....
I agree. I think quite a number of them will eventually end up here.
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<< <i>It's a misnomer to classify State Quarter collectors as coin collectors. >>
Completely wrong! Have a nice day. >>
Really? .... So where are the millions of "coin collectors" who only purchased or collected the State Quarters? >>
I know of 10 or more parents who engaged their children in the state quarter collecting. From folder purchases to quarter roll withdraws at the bank. So while I understand you may think they do not exist...my knowledge of such folks says they in fact are out there and I know of some of them.
Just my two cents.
Cheers,
Bob
<< <i>Many new collectors are clicking away on EBay, out of the sight of the traditional coin collecting community. The fortunate ones will discover this forum and others like it and thus discover the dangers of the HSN,Chinese Factory Coins, and disingenuously handled classic coins. >>
I can offer some insight and tell you what happens to a new collector....
They find eBay,
They get burned buying junk,
They learn to buy smarter,
They ask sellers questions.
They ask for Pictures.
They get blocked from bidding,
They come here to get some insight.
They get told they are a PITA.
http://A new collectors experience with eBay and Colletors Universe[/L
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<< <i>It's a misnomer to classify State Quarter collectors as coin collectors. >>
Completely wrong! Have a nice day. >>
Really? .... So where are the millions of "coin collectors" who only purchased or collected the State Quarters? >>
I know of 10 or more parents who engaged their children in the state quarter collecting. From folder purchases to quarter roll withdraws at the bank. So while I understand you may think they do not exist...my knowledge of such folks says they in fact are out there and I know of some of them.
Just my two cents. >>
...now wait a minute, are we talking two cent pieces or quarters?
Checking for that S mintmark created a LOT of collectors back in the day!
<< <i>Every collector is an investor. When is the last time you met a collector that wasn't concerned about the value of their collection?
Cheers,
Bob >>
Right here. You could tell me it's "worth" 18 cents or 18 billion dollars, it would not make a difference to me. (It's much, much closer to the lower end of that scale!)
I collected the State Quarters. That was all I collected, coin wise, from 1999-2008. I really started collecting in 2008 when I found my father's stash. My state quarter collection is complete. All 50 coins from the Philadelphia and Denver mints. I am still looking for a few upgrades but it's really not worth posting about. I think that the Arizona quarter was the one most recently issued when I began collecting other things. It was the first new one I got once I started keeping a record of my collection, anyway (Created record keeping spreadsheet in May 08)
Perhaps some of the people who started with state quarters choose not to post here because they are essentially told they aren't real collectors?
<< <i>It's a misnomer to classify State Quarter collectors as coin collectors. >>
Why? If you collect state quarters from circulation, you are collecting coins, and thus you are a coin collector.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>The State Quarters program was supposed to generate hoards of new coin collectors. Where are they? The only new people I ever see at shows and in local shops are interested in bullion, bullion and more bullion.
Is there any evidence that significant numbers of new collectors of numismatic coins are active?
What do you see happening? >>
I've never been to a show.
<< <i>Well I have to post on this topic. I was a collector as a child and collected coins from My paper route and looked through My Moms tips from Bob’s Big Boy. I hung out at the local coin shop. Loved every minute of it. Now I am back collecting and feel like an idiot asking to many questions when I go to buy at the local coin shops around My area. So I buy off of the internet. David Lawrence, Heritage, EBay, and Teletrade. In one Year I put together a lot of complete sets and one registry set of 1932-64 Quarters. I have gone to the Long Beach Coin show twice. And learned that if You are new to collecting, There are very few people there that will take the time to talk to You and answer Your stupid Questions. Example , I went up to the NGC table and asked where I could get My 1909-s VDB graded? The lady says “ Are You a member? I say no not yet. She says go ask one of the dealers to look at your coin. He sends Me to the ANACS table and says “ you don’t need to be a member there. So I get it graded there only to find out they are not one of the top grading companies anymore. So later I became a member of PCGS and will never get a coin graded by NGC after that. It has been great reading and learning. Most of if the hard way. I would send an e-mail question to PCGS on how to send in My quarters to get graded. But no e-mail response back. So I send in a few , One a 1943 DDO Quarter. They send it back as a 1943. I call and say this is a DDO . They say “You didn’t pay the 24.00“. I said of coarse I want to pay the money for a DDO grade. I send it back and it comes back a DDO. I think the problem with Us new collectors is that it is not like it used to be where someone will help You. I have sent in about 40 Quarters to PCGS and all went well after that . The most helpful people at PCGS has been the lady in the set registry section, But I don’t think She wants Me to ask Her question on How to send in , crossovers, re-grades, and so on. I know what everyone’s answer to this is. Go see Your local coin dealer, He will help You . Well I tried that and all three said they don’t do that service anymore. I think in one more Year I will have it down. By trial and error. This is not a rant , you My experience as a new collector again. Dale >>
Dale my experiences mirror yours to a tee and unfortunately those same high than almighty condescending unhelpful people that you ran to are also very prevalent on this forum go to the end of this thread to see where I posted about my recent experiences at a show Why was I blocked those same people at the show carry their attitudes right over on to these boards. Hang there, they won't last long.
Now on the other hand I have been and continue to, on daily basis met lots of very helpful people. its just they are hard to find until you enter into private messages and such.
Good luck, message me anytime and I can offer some tips like don't ask an eBay dealer for pictures or they will block you!
as far as the state quarter program, yes a lot of people bought them with the anticipation of they were going to be worth a lot in years to come, but after paying so much for the stuff like on home shopping programs, catalog's and some of the higher priced dealesr, they have come to realize they are worthless other than face value. Not a week goes by in t he store when several are trying to sell there state quarter albums/rolls, etc.
In the larger realm of things , it may be different but from a smaller town shop like mine this pretty much sums it up !!
Coins are very complex (IMHO). I do not like toned coins and can only usually buy them in person at shows. I also am looking to buy a gold coin (see my other post about this); however, I think if you titled this thread where are the collectors/investors? Then you may get more of a response. Just my opinion, but I do see your point...
Every collector is an investor....patently untrue.
<< <i>The State Quarters program was supposed to generate hoards of new coin collectors. Where are they? The only new people I ever see at shows and in local shops are interested in bullion, bullion and more bullion.
Is there any evidence that significant numbers of new collectors of numismatic coins are active? >>
Sales of SQH folders? Collectors don't have to be present at shows and local shops to be active.
<< <i>At a large local hobby shop, the coin folders/albums/supplies have recently been demoted to the worst location in the store ... just across from the junk, and I mean junk, clearance merchandise. >>
I think folders have a more prominent location at the local Borders where they are not next to junk.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Every collector is an investor. When is the last time you met a collector that wasn't concerned about the value of their collection?
Cheers,
Bob >>
Ummm, no. There are many collectors who are totally unconcerned with the value of their collection. There are many investors who are totally unconcerned with the coins in which they are investing. Most admitedly fall somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.
As for the OP's question new collectors are the same place they have always been. They are checking their pocket change...buying for face value at the bank...filling up coin folders, etc. They may not be going to shows, but they haven't done so historically, either. While they may not be going to B&Ms in droves anymore they are instead buying on-line.
This question has been asked about EVERY generation and undoubtedly will be asked again 50 years from now by those self-same new collectors of today.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>Havent you witnessed new collectors joining this forum recently?
and, they are NOT collecting those quarters (not now anyway). >>
Part of the reason I got started collecting in summer 2010 was my girlfriend's film roll full of statehood quarters. So I started collecting them... well, that was satisfying for about three days. now I spend way too much money on coins
Over the past months since my life has settled down (recently married) I have decided to take my take my coin collecting up a notch. At the moment it feels like I have a "fever" as I have been obsessing on gathering as much information as I can. I find myself on ebay and other auction sites quite frequently, checking my change after I purchase something, the snack jar change at work, and even asking the local banks for pre 1964 quarters, dimes, and 64-70 kennedy half dollars. Crazy what one does to make his coin collection grow...
Currently my goal is to collect the different pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters, halfs, and dollars issued throughout the 20th century and also from each mint. At first I am getting low grade coins till I complete my set and I plan on obtaining higher grades as the years go by. If I come across 19th century coins I plan on stockpiling them as I enjoy owning a piece of history. Anyone recommend another way of collecting coins? Which grade should I start at instead of getting fair to poor grade for the older more expensive coins? I found it challenging (and almost intimidating..) on the knowledge one must acquire as they want to pursue their collection to a better grade.
I am also collecting all the new coins that have been released in the past couple years and I am still enjoying them; presidential dollars, bronze first ladys, etc.
Well as a first time poster and someone sorta new to really "collecting" coins does anyone have any books they recommend on buying? or some websites to look at pertaining to us coins?
One last question since I posted: Are any of the sets or coins issued in the past couple years worth getting really high grades if I am trying to turn them into an investment? silver proofs? uncirculated presidential dollars? etc...
Thanks guys for the information that is posted on this site,
Jason from West Virginia
<< <i>Bullion has been king for some time & will continue to be. It's a misnomer to classify State Quarter collectors as coin collectors. >>
If being in this for just a couple of years is "new," then that would include me and a few others I know that post here. I don't collect to make money, but I think of my collection as a diversification of assets. I don't care too much about rarity, die variations, sets etc, my main interest is in design and patina, I hope that puts me in the collecting camp.
got burned by US Mint purchases or HSN television purchases and the like
when they went to sell them at their local coin shop or pawn shop..........
You need to find a local coin club and join it. Attend the monthly meetings, make some friends, watch what sells and what dosent in the club auction.....and sometime get to a big show and prepare to be overwhelmed.
Get a Redbook. Get Collecting and Investing in Rare Coins by q david bowers. This book covers a huge spectrum of numismatics and is well written and current.
Stop Buying Coins.
Stop Buying Coins.
Read about them for awhile, join the club, focus on something you really learn to like.
Then buy coins, for you will know what you are looking for and how much to spend on it.
Ask questions here and maybe we can help you avoid a bad more or two....
You cant go too wrong buying new mint issues. At least condidtion and authenticity are never issues here. Once you start buying raw gold and get stung by a few counterfeits....youll have wished youd learned more quicker.
New coins, fairly new coins....from circulation, youre enjoying yourself but really just spinning wheels and what you gather together will be worth face value in ten years no doubt. Just a sad fact. Now if you had learned about Barber quarters, and how to tell nice VF XF coins from the dipped dogs, learn the series in and out....you could cherrypick nice coins, slab them, CAC them, sell them....thats how 'investing' actually pays in coins. Your investing your knowledge and making money with it.
welcome aboard...
Besides you have to remember there are and always have been a lot of small dollar collectors who don't spend very much. In the old days they pulled Lincoln cents and other current coins from circulation. Their idea of a "great coin" was a 1909-S Lincoln that was identifiable. Now it might be state quarters or perhaps they put away a silver eagle or two now and then. At any rate they don't make a lot of dollar volume impact on the market.
The other thing you have to remember is that this economy is killing the middle class. Their house values are down and their mortage might be more than their house equity. They might be worried about their jobs, or they might not have jobs. Any of those factors are going to keep them from growning as collectors.
If they do spend money on coins, it would probably be on gold or silver bullion. This might explain that's all you see from new customers.
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Dale my experiences mirror yours to a tee and unfortunately those same high than almighty condescending unhelpful people that you ran to are also very prevalent on this forum go to the end of this thread to see where I posted about my recent experiences at a show Why was I blocked those same people at the show carry their attitudes right over on to these boards. Hang there, they won't last long.
Now on the other hand I have been and continue to, on daily basis met lots of very helpful people. its just they are hard to find until you enter into private messages and such.
Good luck, message me anytime and I can offer some tips like don't ask an eBay dealer for pictures or they will block you!
Wow... You still aren't dropping this?
<< <i>How many of the new collectors are on the long side of 60, and does that help collecting in general? >>
I'm in that group, are you saying that........
Just look around at any coin show and see the percentage of patrons in their 20's and 30's. I would say at any given local or national show 80% of the patrons are at least 40 and over. The baseball card industry went to crap because of saturation and fewer new collectors as kids found different ways of staying busy with the revolution of the internet and video games. Coin collecting should still be strong for at least another 20 years, but as the old generation dies off in the coming years with no replacement of younger blood then we will have a problem.
THere are many reasons why the presidential dollar and national park programs are dead. First, when was the last time you got a national park quarter in circulation? So far, I have gotten 2. Yes, a lousy 2!!!! Just like the famous 2009 commemorative lincoln pennies, when was the last time you got one of those? I don't think I've received one in about 2 months now. The bottom line is there is no distribution channell to get the national park quarters in front of potential collectors.
My general impression is that there are a few new collectors coming in, certainly not the huge numbers predicted. People initially hoarded the state quarters but now do not seem to give a dammy. I think coin collecting has "upside down" demographics like the GM division Buick and also the defunct Oldsmobile = mostly loyal old geezers with a few newbies.
Well, just Love coins, period.