<< <i>I agree with Landlord that the front line person could have been more helpful and put the OP at ease knowing that the matter WAS going to be addressed.
I also believe that Heritage went threw the proper steps to assure that the coins were indeed stolen.
The only problem I see here is someone with influence had to go to the top to get things started. Or at least it looks that way.
JMHO >>
I agree on all counts - well said.
Michelle, best of luck and health to you and your husband.
"Yes I know who stole them. He left his sunglasses, wallet, and his fingerprints everywhere. people that do drugs are dumb. Giving the name is meaningless because no one here even knows this person, nor does this person have valid ID, so he wouldn't use his own name. The reference to San Diego is because we heard from someone that he is trying to move to San Diego as soon as possible. "
this is from your other thread , ...........seems like the police wouldn't have to try too hard to track him down
Thanks Heritage for working with psxchelly and withdrawing the coins from auction.
It is good she went to the police originally and had documentation. Now I hope everything goes smoothly and she gets the coins back. Clearly they have sentimental value above and beyond their dollar value.
I've been reading this entire thread and, in the end, it appears Heritage did exactly what they should have done, once the problem was brought to their attention. The only problem I have is, if they had a proper system of checking for stolen cert numbers, they would have been proactively handling the situation, instead of having to rely on the sheer luck that the rightful owner happened to see them and make the call.
The fact that they were given a heads-up 6 months ago and the stolen coins still slipped in under their radar and made it into auction is unacceptable, considering how easily this could have been caught. I have twenty-five years of computer programming experience, and I concur with the others in saying this is a VERY simple task.
I sincerely hope everything works out well for the OP and she gets all her coins back safely.
I know little shops get hassled to check stolen property reports across all types of items. I'm surprised that with the breadth of items Heritage handles that this process isn't smoother. These things (coins) are numbered and scan-able, what about art objects, rare books, etc.
I do think they responded properly, but I do wonder if it was because some of the big boys on here fired off those e-mails.
Either case I think it's a tribute to the board that people jumped in to help...even if we then had a b$%^ing session afterwards.
It would be my understanding that their process would had worked to check the coins against a database of purportedly stolen coins that have been reported to HA by potential victims of theft or robbery. Upon the discovery of a coin matching in the database, before listing the coin for sale, they contact the reporting party and request additional information.
To list the coin(s) otherwise, although they've been notified in advance would seem to make them somewhat responsible or complicit in handling stolen property.
I am surprised that a large auction house like HA did manage to let this happen. I wonder how many other times coins have went through HA now undetected that are now sitting in some non-criminal's hands that are in fact stolen... hmmm?
<< <i>It would be my understanding that their process would had worked to check the coins against a database of purportedly stolen coins that have been reported to HA by potential victims of theft or robbery. Upon the discovery of a coin matching in the database, before listing the coin for sale, they contact the reporting party and request additional information.
To list the coin(s) otherwise, although they've been notified in advance would seem to make them somewhat responsible or complicit in handling stolen property.
I am surprised that a large auction house like HA did manage to let this happen. I wonder how many other times coins have went through HA now undetected that are now sitting in some non-criminal's hands that are in fact stolen... hmmm? >>
As previously mentioned, it would be much much easier for a coin thief to just resubmit the stolen coins to PCGS for SecurePlus regrading where PCGS then completely changes the certification number. doing so would render any database check by Heritage, even one that works, pretty ineffective.
Of course, if a victim of theft reported their coin loss to PCGS as well I would hope the current PCGS process would be to at least check the current certification number of the coin against their lists in such a scenario before reassigning it a new number. Was it ever explained why SecurePlus coins have to get new certification numbers????
Luckily they were 70s, making the potential downside to a thief much bigger had he cracked them out. Leaving them in the plastic probably enabled him/her/them to fetch more money for the stolen goods, but it also made 'em easier to track and recognize.
Any update on your coins... did you get them back? Were they your coins? Lastly, if indeed they were yours... was the person/people arrested for the theft?
shasta7
Those who are collecting SILVER... will be wealthy shortly!!
<< <i>I've been reading this entire thread and, in the end, it appears Heritage did exactly what they should have done, once the problem was brought to their attention. The only problem I have is, if they had a proper system of checking for stolen cert numbers, they would have been proactively handling the situation, instead of having to rely on the sheer luck that the rightful owner happened to see them and make the call.
The fact that they were given a heads-up 6 months ago and the stolen coins still slipped in under their radar and made it into auction is unacceptable, considering how easily this could have been caught. I have twenty-five years of computer programming experience, and I concur with the others in saying this is a VERY simple task.
I sincerely hope everything works out well for the OP and she gets all her coins back safely.
Indeed. >>
They all do need a system to proactively track stolen coin's cert numbers.
If, instead of just saying "we'll look out for them" or some such, they asked for the police reports up front, then they could comfortably and proactively keep a database of stolen cert numbers to check against.
It'd be nice if there were also a central database for stolen cert numbers with the police reports.
However, everyone needs to be aware that promising to continually check for stolen cert numbers may put the auction houses into some liability. People would have to be a little forgiving if mistakes, errors and omissions are made.
<< <i>.....is this going to one of those threads where the o.p just leaves everyone hanging ? >>
If I recall, she had a lot of personal items going on in her life (and, not the fun kind), so she may not be on the forums over the holidays or may be having to spend her time/energies into trying to keep folks healthy. Give her some slack.
Michelle, I hope everything works out for the best, but do you feel like you have done yourself a disservice by posting this so far in advance? Apparently the thief knows what he or she is doing and is probably viewing this very forum as we speak. In the future, I would submit the proof, gripe with Heritage, get a lawyer if necessary (probably a bit premature at this point), and call the local authorities, and notify NGC and PCGS (in case the submitter tries to have the coin reslabbed/crossed into a different holder). If the local authorities are helping enough, given that the coins crossed interstate lines, I believe that it may also invoke federal jurisdiction. I know at one time, at least several years ago, the FBI would get involved with stolen collections worth more than $10k. I haven't researched this is a long time, but it is definitely worth a thought.
In summary, I would post the coins here or somewhere else as being stolen; however, once you have found them, don't let anyone know that you may be on to the thief! Then you should pursue your remedies. Again, I wish you nothing but the very BEST.
I see that some of the newer posts suggest that you may be experiencing personal problems (e.g. potential health issues, etc?). If this is true, I wish you a speedy recovery.
1. HA had a police report from with cert numbers from 6 months ago and they listed the coins?
2. Anything and everything after that doesn't really matter if that point #1 is true. Please clarify.
3. Clerks and receptionists are front line defense. Clerks and receptionists should be schooled for superior Customer service.
4. The OP obviously wasn't satisfied with HA's front line, because there was an obvious impetus to post here.
5. I am happy that the OP knew where to turn to get action taken.
6. It appears clearly from the timeline, that a good Samaritan here took the issue upon themselves to notch it up a level - kudos TomB?
7. Since there is a clear correlation between CU and HA. HA should clear the air here.
So what did we learn here? None of the TPG's maintain a database for stolen cert numbers? HA doesn't check/maintain a database? Did anyone enter those numbers into the TPG where they were certified. Did anything come up? Why not? Is the Onus on the owner of the coins? Do we expect police departments to know where to send cert information?
Apparently instead of moving forward, all you really smart people rather post minutia instead of addressing the bigger problem. How about educating or formulating idea/plans so that things like this are less likely to happen again. What is the protocol at the various TPG for submitting stolen cert numbers?
Furthermore can some please explain why all coins are not scanned in this day and age. Is it really that big of a deal?
Sorry, forget the last comment, it's argumentive
edit: I just read MSmorrisine's post. I stand corrected, there is someone else who consistently posted in this thread who is trying to move forward.
<< <i>.....is this going to one of those threads where the o.p just leaves everyone hanging ? >>
If I recall, she had a lot of personal items going on in her life (and, not the fun kind), so she may not be on the forums over the holidays or may be having to spend her time/energies into trying to keep folks healthy. Give her some slack. >>
If this is all true, I hope the OP can work those problems out...but dont leave us hanging! How did things end up? We all supported the OP, and Heritage apparently did the right thing, but has the OP gotten her items, is anyone on the hook, did the paper trail come to an end, is the party that stole the coins being grilled, or charged, or....?
Comments
<< <i>I agree with Landlord that the front line person could have been more helpful and put the OP at ease knowing that the matter WAS going to be addressed.
I also believe that Heritage went threw the proper steps to assure that the coins were indeed stolen.
The only problem I see here is someone with influence had to go to the top to get things started. Or at least it looks that way.
JMHO >>
I agree on all counts - well said.
Michelle, best of luck and health to you and your husband.
looking at it from Hetitages perspective , I think they did good -
you should get your coins back ....and that's what counts .
<< <i>... the front line person could have been more helpful and put the OP at ease knowing that the matter WAS going to be addressed. >>
Is it at all possible the front line person thought they did that?
this is from your other thread , ...........seems like the police wouldn't have to try too hard to track him down
I would have a lawyer send Heritage a formal demand letter asking them to impound the coins
until the matter is adjudicated by the police or the court. If you have pictures of the coins that would
identify them the PCGS # and the grading receipt from PCGS make copies and send the all registered
to the President of Heritage Registered return receipt.
Camelot
Certainly I wish you good luck in getting your coins back Michelle, and wish for your husband much improved health!
It is good she went to the police originally and had documentation. Now I hope everything goes smoothly and she gets the coins back. Clearly they have sentimental value above and beyond their dollar value.
Best of luck to you, Michelle, and a speedy recovery to your husband!
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
The fact that they were given a heads-up 6 months ago and the stolen coins still slipped in under their radar and made it into auction is unacceptable, considering how easily this could have been caught. I have twenty-five years of computer programming experience, and I concur with the others in saying this is a VERY simple task.
I sincerely hope everything works out well for the OP and she gets all her coins back safely.
Indeed.
I do think they responded properly, but I do wonder if it was because some of the big boys on here fired off those e-mails.
Either case I think it's a tribute to the board that people jumped in to help...even if we then had a b$%^ing session afterwards.
Best regards and happy holidays to all!
To list the coin(s) otherwise, although they've been notified in advance would seem to make them somewhat responsible or complicit in handling stolen property.
I am surprised that a large auction house like HA did manage to let this happen. I wonder how many other times coins have went through HA now undetected that are now sitting in some non-criminal's hands that are in fact stolen... hmmm?
<< <i>It would be my understanding that their process would had worked to check the coins against a database of purportedly stolen coins that have been reported to HA by potential victims of theft or robbery. Upon the discovery of a coin matching in the database, before listing the coin for sale, they contact the reporting party and request additional information.
To list the coin(s) otherwise, although they've been notified in advance would seem to make them somewhat responsible or complicit in handling stolen property.
I am surprised that a large auction house like HA did manage to let this happen. I wonder how many other times coins have went through HA now undetected that are now sitting in some non-criminal's hands that are in fact stolen... hmmm? >>
As previously mentioned, it would be much much easier for a coin thief to just resubmit the stolen coins to PCGS for SecurePlus regrading where PCGS then completely changes the certification number. doing so would render any database check by Heritage, even one that works, pretty ineffective.
Of course, if a victim of theft reported their coin loss to PCGS as well I would hope the current PCGS process would be to at least check the current certification number of the coin against their lists in such a scenario before reassigning it a new number. Was it ever explained why SecurePlus coins have to get new certification numbers????
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
yours... was the person/people arrested for the theft?
shasta7
<< <i>I've been reading this entire thread and, in the end, it appears Heritage did exactly what they should have done, once the problem was brought to their attention. The only problem I have is, if they had a proper system of checking for stolen cert numbers, they would have been proactively handling the situation, instead of having to rely on the sheer luck that the rightful owner happened to see them and make the call.
The fact that they were given a heads-up 6 months ago and the stolen coins still slipped in under their radar and made it into auction is unacceptable, considering how easily this could have been caught. I have twenty-five years of computer programming experience, and I concur with the others in saying this is a VERY simple task.
I sincerely hope everything works out well for the OP and she gets all her coins back safely.
Indeed. >>
They all do need a system to proactively track stolen coin's cert numbers.
If, instead of just saying "we'll look out for them" or some such, they asked for the police reports up front, then they could comfortably and proactively keep a database of stolen cert numbers to check against.
It'd be nice if there were also a central database for stolen cert numbers with the police reports.
However, everyone needs to be aware that promising to continually check for stolen cert numbers may put the auction houses into some liability. People would have to be a little forgiving if mistakes, errors and omissions are made.
<< <i>.....is this going to one of those threads where the o.p just leaves everyone hanging ? >>
If I recall, she had a lot of personal items going on in her life (and, not the fun kind), so she may not be on the forums over the holidays or may be having to spend her time/energies into trying to keep folks healthy.
Give her some slack.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
In summary, I would post the coins here or somewhere else as being stolen; however, once you have found them, don't let anyone know that you may be on to the thief! Then you should pursue your remedies. Again, I wish you nothing but the very BEST.
Ken
I see that some of the newer posts suggest that you may be experiencing personal problems (e.g. potential health issues, etc?). If this is true, I wish you a speedy recovery.
Ken
1. HA had a police report from with cert numbers from 6 months ago and they listed the coins?
2. Anything and everything after that doesn't really matter if that point #1 is true. Please clarify.
3. Clerks and receptionists are front line defense. Clerks and receptionists should be schooled for superior Customer service.
4. The OP obviously wasn't satisfied with HA's front line, because there was an obvious impetus to post here.
5. I am happy that the OP knew where to turn to get action taken.
6. It appears clearly from the timeline, that a good Samaritan here took the issue upon themselves to notch it up a level - kudos TomB?
7. Since there is a clear correlation between CU and HA. HA should clear the air here.
So what did we learn here? None of the TPG's maintain a database for stolen cert numbers? HA doesn't check/maintain a database? Did anyone enter those numbers into the TPG where they were certified. Did anything come up? Why not? Is the Onus on the owner of the coins? Do we expect police departments to know where to send cert information?
Apparently instead of moving forward, all you really smart people rather post minutia instead of addressing the bigger problem. How about educating or formulating idea/plans so that things like this are less likely to happen again. What is the protocol at the various TPG for submitting stolen cert numbers?
Furthermore can some please explain why all coins are not scanned in this day and age. Is it really that big of a deal?
Sorry, forget the last comment, it's argumentive
edit: I just read MSmorrisine's post. I stand corrected, there is someone else who consistently posted in this thread who is trying to move forward.
<< <i>
<< <i>.....is this going to one of those threads where the o.p just leaves everyone hanging ? >>
If I recall, she had a lot of personal items going on in her life (and, not the fun kind), so she may not be on the forums over the holidays or may be having to spend her time/energies into trying to keep folks healthy.
Give her some slack. >>
If this is all true, I hope the OP can work those problems out...but dont leave us hanging! How did things end up? We all supported the OP, and Heritage apparently did the right thing, but has the OP gotten her items, is anyone on the hook, did the paper trail come to an end, is the party that stole the coins being grilled, or charged, or....?
Only need a brief update....please!!