<< <i>The coins are being pulled from the auction as I write this. Thank you to everyone who brought this to our attention. >>
Good for you, and Heritage, Stewart! I hope the consignor isn't innocent in this, that way someone can be held liable. If he is innocent, I hope he has the info to show the trail on this.
Stewart has already mentioned it, but I just came home and read an email from Todd Imhoff and he stated that Heritage has been working through their internal protocol this afternoon with respect to the coins and all details they have on the coins and that they are taking action.
<< <i>Wow, you're very lucky the consignor or someone before them didn't decide to send the coins into PCGS for a Secure Plus regrading as the coins would have been reslabbed with entirely different certification numbers. This here is a great reason PCGS should always keep the same certification number on all regrades! >>
I think this point is worth repeating about keeping the same cert number. I am certainly not surprised HA is taking care of this on their end. Hopefully it will lead to the people that did this.
<< <i>yepps, called the police AND Heritage this morning. The Heritage person who answered the phone surprisingly didnt seem to anxious to help. He kept putting me on hold. He didnt even want to right down the Lot #'s. He asked me to email him the list I provided to the police (which i just did).
I already told HA that if they sell my coins, I am getting a lawyer to sue them, because they are stolen, and the person who consigned them has no right to do that.
What is even more upsetting / surprising, is that I called HA back when my stuff was originally stolen. They assured me that they keep a list of stolen items, and they could contact the police. I guess they dont.
-Michelle >>
I haven't read through this entire thread, but this single post seems to raise some serious questions as to what kind of business Heritage is running. I would think that any upstanding business would be very willing to work with victims and authorities when stolen or potentially stolen objects are in their possession.
<< <i>yepps, called the police AND Heritage this morning. The Heritage person who answered the phone surprisingly didnt seem to anxious to help. He kept putting me on hold. He didnt even want to right down the Lot #'s. He asked me to email him the list I provided to the police (which i just did).
I already told HA that if they sell my coins, I am getting a lawyer to sue them, because they are stolen, and the person who consigned them has no right to do that.
What is even more upsetting / surprising, is that I called HA back when my stuff was originally stolen. They assured me that they keep a list of stolen items, and they could contact the police. I guess they dont.
-Michelle >>
I haven't read through this entire thread, but this single post seems to raise some serious questions as to what kind of business Heritage is running. I would think that any upstanding business would be very willing to work with victims and authorities when stolen or potentially stolen objects are in their possession.
Who's steering that boat? >>
But on the same token from a person taking a report from an unknown person. You don't get too excited and state that you will look into it. Then you look into it. Facts need to be found and learned before one sounds excited like they will help out. IMHO
Maybe you should read the entire thread before hurling innuendos.
<< <i>I haven't read through this entire thread, but this single post seems to raise some serious questions as to what kind of business Heritage is running. I would think that any upstanding business would be very willing to work with victims and authorities when stolen or potentially stolen objects are in their possession. Who's steering that boat? >>
<< <i>yepps, called the police AND Heritage this morning. The Heritage person who answered the phone surprisingly didnt seem to anxious to help. He kept putting me on hold. He didnt even want to right down the Lot #'s. He asked me to email him the list I provided to the police (which i just did).
I already told HA that if they sell my coins, I am getting a lawyer to sue them, because they are stolen, and the person who consigned them has no right to do that.
What is even more upsetting / surprising, is that I called HA back when my stuff was originally stolen. They assured me that they keep a list of stolen items, and they could contact the police. I guess they dont.
-Michelle >>
I haven't read through this entire thread, but this single post seems to raise some serious questions as to what kind of business Heritage is running. I would think that any upstanding business would be very willing to work with victims and authorities when stolen or potentially stolen objects are in their possession.
Who's steering that boat? >>
But on the same token from a person taking a report from an unknown person. You don't get too excited and state that you will look into it. Then you look into it. Facts need to be found and learned before one sounds excited like they will help out. IMHO >>
<< <i>Maybe you should read the entire thread before hurling innuendos. >>
Considering they were initially contacted by the victim months ago, AND agreed to keep a list of the stolen coins, THEN the coins in question show up in an auction is not innuendo. It's not acceptable for a business with any reputation at all to have let this happen.
Considering they were initially contacted by the victim months ago, AND agreed to keep a list of the stolen coins, THEN the coins in question show up in an auction is not innuendo. It's not acceptable for a business with any reputation at all to have let this happen.
I agree with Lanlord on this. If they previously took a report on the stolen coins and failed to take the victim seriously when he reported it, at a minimum their internal systems aren't working very well regarding stolen property reports.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Considering they were initially contacted by the victim months ago, AND agreed to keep a list of the stolen coins, THEN the coins in question show up in an auction is not innuendo. It's not acceptable for a business with any reputation at all to have let this happen.
I agree with Lanlord on this. If they previously took a report on the stolen coins and failed to take the victim seriously when he reported it, at a minimum their internal systems aren't working very well regarding stolen property reports. >>
I'm sure that it would be easy to keep cert numbers on file to check with and cert numbers that may have been stolen. This could easily be checked with their computers. Maybe this bad publicity will push HA into such practices.
As of 4:50 p.m. Arizona time, these coins are still up for bidding. I do believe however, that once properly investigated, Heritage will do the right thing.
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
Yes, I see that my coins are still up for auction. The Police Detective just called me and informed me that he faxed HA all the police documentation they requested......sigh
<< <i>Yes, I see that my coins are still up for auction. The Police Detective just called me and informed me that he faxed HA all the police documentation they requested......sigh[/q
GET YOURSELF A LAWYER TO REPRESENT YOUR INTERESTS. DO IT NOW.
Very good chance the coins were sold to a third party (dealer?) who is familiar with selling on HA. Chances are they won't get the burglar, but at least you should get your coins back. Hopefully the same person bought all of them from the theif.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Heritage may be leaving them up while they have the police visit the person who sent them in. Why give them a warning by pulling them until the police rattle their cage.
<< <i>Very good chance the coins were sold to a third party (dealer?) who is familiar with selling on HA. Chances are they won't get the burglar, but at least you should get your coins back. Hopefully the same person bought all of them from the theif. >>
there has to be a trail , following backwards from the consignor , hand to hand - all the way back to who bought them from the thief
.......and the O.P I think stated he knew who the thief was ............!? there may be more here then the obvious
from his other thread reporting them stolen : "If you see them for sale on ebay, or craigslist, or any shops in the Northeastern US, please let me know, or the police, or something.
Oh yah, PS: the person who stole them also has friends in San Diego, so if you see them anywhere let me know. They are low pop and very obvious."
With the millions of coins Heritage handles each year, I think it's unrealistic to expect them to be able to pick out a handful of stolen ones. That said and being the case, they should not have made the commitment to do so when initially contacted.
After reading this thread and the linked thread from July, I believe this is a perfect example of how forum members can help a member. Michelle, had a terrible experience, BUT I believe she really doesn't know anyone in the decision area at Heritage. Fortunately, there ARE a number of members here who DO KNOW key employees at Heritage and it was because of their quick contacts that the correct results occurred. If Michelle had NOT started this thread today, I believe the process to identify the stolen coins would have been delayed. JMHO. Steve
<<Heritage can't possibly check every cert every time. >>
As MsMorrisine points out it is trivial to automate the checking of certs against a stolen coin DB.
I remember the post when these coins were first stolen. I'm already thinking poorly of Heritage for even stalling. If they don't get their act together soon I will no longer do business with them either.
<< <i>With the millions of coins Heritage handles each year, I think it's unrealistic to expect them to be able to pick out a handful of stolen ones. That said and being the case, they should not have made the commitment to do so when initially contacted.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree with you Russel but for one minor degree.
They are PR70DCAM IKEs which, without fail, fetch thousands and are not typically offered for sale. Thank goodness that the true owner was vigilant in the quest.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I am surprised and dissapointed that Heritage did not act when the first hint of inpropriety surfaced. In a hobby where your reputation is your hallmark, what were they thinking?
Ron
Collect for the love of the hobby, the beauty of the coins, and enjoy the ride.
I'm trying to think of good reasons why that would be. Either Heritage is doing the rightful owner an injustice or the rightful ownership of the coins was in question from the start. I can't think of any other explanations.
If Heritage is dragging their feet for no reason, it's a bad deal for them. If the rightful ownership is not clear, then this thread shouldn't even be here.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Either Stewart doesn't have the authority to pull the coins from the auction or someone requested that they do not pull them from the auction (aka the police). What I don't understand is once the "title" of the coins was in question and they had been notified less than 6 months ago that they were stolen, why was there any hesitation to pull them? I understand that they didn't catch them when they were consigned (though agree that it shouldn't have been too hard) but once they were notified, they should be able to check their records or stolen coins pretty easily. Why would it take any police report? Worst case is they can put them in the next major auction with no fees to make the consignor whole. We aren't talking a once in a lifetime auction.
I do not understand all of the Heritage bashing. They are following their internal protocol for dealing with the situation and have publicly stated here that they are going to take down the auctions. They have an obligation to their consignors to make sure that such claims are not unfounded. If you were the consignor of a coin and someone from out of the blue made such a claim, you would expect them to thoroughly research the issue, not make a snap decision on the word of an internet forum posse.
What's the hurry? Everybody expects everything to happen immediately. Have you ever been involved in a multimillion dollar auction like the ones heritage runs? Do you think maybe they have procedures for dealing with things like this? Do you know what the procedure is? Who investigates? what do they require before pulling down an auction? Taking down one auction wrongly because some looney phoned in and said "those coins are stolen" would teach them to have procedures.
Once it is decided to take down the auctions how long does that take? Who has to do it? My guess is the IT guy who will go into the system and take it down needs specific direction which probably has several layers of approval.
Are you guys thinking "Well if this was my ebay auction I'd have it down by now." ?
Taking their time and doing it right only reflects positively on Heritage.
It may be that HA ultimately gets this thing right, that remains to be seen. In the meantime, the problem is that they have not acted in a way that would cause the OP (or any of us if we were in her shoes) to feel any reassurance-in fact, just the opposite. Major PR/customer service error if nothing else.
Markets (governments) can remain irrational longer than an investor can remain solvent.
<< <i>It may be that HA ultimately gets this thing right, that remains to be seen. In the meantime, the problem is that they have not acted in a way that would cause the OP (or any of us if we were in her shoes) to feel any reassurance-in fact, just the opposite. Major PR/customer service error if nothing else. >>
I totally disagree. If some crackpot claimed that my consignment coin was actually their coin, I now know that Heritage is not going to just take their word for it. Props to Heritage.
<< <i>It may be that HA ultimately gets this thing right, that remains to be seen. In the meantime, the problem is that they have not acted in a way that would cause the OP (or any of us if we were in her shoes) to feel any reassurance-in fact, just the opposite. Major PR/customer service error if nothing else. >>
Would you feel the same way if you had consigned the coins and, for all you knew, had good title to them? It is more prudent and responsible for them NOT to act rashly and to sort things out in a manner that is fair to all innocent parties. I am confident that they will do the right thing
Hard to believe that "crackpots" with verified names and addresses are calling coin auction sites and claiming their stolen coins are being auctioned. Heritage should take the OP at his word, immediately take down the auction, hold the coins in storage (or perhaps the police would take the coins) and then allow for a police investigation into the matter...and resolve the problem by returning the coins ASAP to the rightful owner.
Comments
<< <i>The coins are being pulled from the auction as I write this. Thank you to everyone who brought this to our attention. >>
Good for you, and Heritage, Stewart! I hope the consignor isn't innocent in this, that way someone can be held liable. If he is innocent, I hope he has the info to show the trail on this.
Glad there is some good news on this
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Wow, you're very lucky the consignor or someone before them didn't decide to send the coins into PCGS for a Secure Plus regrading as the coins would have been reslabbed with entirely different certification numbers. This here is a great reason PCGS should always keep the same certification number on all regrades! >>
I think this point is worth repeating about keeping the same cert number. I am certainly not surprised HA is taking care of this on their end. Hopefully it will lead to the people that did this.
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
<< <i>yepps, called the police AND Heritage this morning. The Heritage person who answered the phone surprisingly didnt seem to anxious to help. He kept putting me on hold. He didnt even want to right down the Lot #'s. He asked me to email him the list I provided to the police (which i just did).
I already told HA that if they sell my coins, I am getting a lawyer to sue them, because they are stolen, and the person who consigned them has no right to do that.
What is even more upsetting / surprising, is that I called HA back when my stuff was originally stolen. They assured me that they keep a list of stolen items, and they could contact the police. I guess they dont.
-Michelle >>
I haven't read through this entire thread, but this single post seems to raise some serious questions as to what kind of business Heritage is running. I would think that any upstanding business would be very willing to work with victims and authorities when stolen or potentially stolen objects are in their possession.
Who's steering that boat?
<< <i>
<< <i>yepps, called the police AND Heritage this morning. The Heritage person who answered the phone surprisingly didnt seem to anxious to help. He kept putting me on hold. He didnt even want to right down the Lot #'s. He asked me to email him the list I provided to the police (which i just did).
I already told HA that if they sell my coins, I am getting a lawyer to sue them, because they are stolen, and the person who consigned them has no right to do that.
What is even more upsetting / surprising, is that I called HA back when my stuff was originally stolen. They assured me that they keep a list of stolen items, and they could contact the police. I guess they dont.
-Michelle >>
I haven't read through this entire thread, but this single post seems to raise some serious questions as to what kind of business Heritage is running. I would think that any upstanding business would be very willing to work with victims and authorities when stolen or potentially stolen objects are in their possession.
Who's steering that boat? >>
But on the same token from a person taking a report from an unknown person. You don't get too excited and state that you will look into it. Then you look into it. Facts need to be found and learned before one sounds excited like they will help out. IMHO
<< <i>I haven't read through this entire thread, but this single post seems to raise some serious questions as to what kind of business Heritage is running. I would think that any upstanding business would be very willing to work with victims and authorities when stolen or potentially stolen objects are in their possession. Who's steering that boat? >>
I am sure that items have been listed at auction with disputed ownership before
hopefully a paper trail is good enough to catch the perps - if psxchelly really does know the thief - I wonder if they have been caught yet
<< <i>Link >>
I just sent a message to HA and wrote:
"FYI: This coin was stolen from a fellow forum member. Please see the post here: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=796737"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>yepps, called the police AND Heritage this morning. The Heritage person who answered the phone surprisingly didnt seem to anxious to help. He kept putting me on hold. He didnt even want to right down the Lot #'s. He asked me to email him the list I provided to the police (which i just did).
I already told HA that if they sell my coins, I am getting a lawyer to sue them, because they are stolen, and the person who consigned them has no right to do that.
What is even more upsetting / surprising, is that I called HA back when my stuff was originally stolen. They assured me that they keep a list of stolen items, and they could contact the police. I guess they dont.
-Michelle >>
I haven't read through this entire thread, but this single post seems to raise some serious questions as to what kind of business Heritage is running. I would think that any upstanding business would be very willing to work with victims and authorities when stolen or potentially stolen objects are in their possession.
Who's steering that boat? >>
But on the same token from a person taking a report from an unknown person. You don't get too excited and state that you will look into it. Then you look into it. Facts need to be found and learned before one sounds excited like they will help out. IMHO >>
<< <i>Maybe you should read the entire thread before hurling innuendos. >>
Considering they were initially contacted by the victim months ago, AND agreed to keep a list of the stolen coins, THEN the coins in question show up in an auction is not innuendo. It's not acceptable for a business with any reputation at all to have let this happen.
<< <i>Wish you luck!
I am still hoping my stolen coin turns up one day.
DAMN! I will keep that one in mind because I love high grade proof Indians.
I agree. Great work by the forum.
Considering they were initially contacted by the victim months ago, AND agreed to keep a list of the stolen coins, THEN the coins in question show up in an auction is not innuendo. It's not acceptable for a business with any reputation at all to have let this happen.
I agree with Lanlord on this. If they previously took a report on the stolen coins and failed to take the victim seriously when he reported it, at a minimum their internal systems aren't working very well regarding stolen property reports.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>good work CU
I agree. Great work by the forum.
Considering they were initially contacted by the victim months ago, AND agreed to keep a list of the stolen coins, THEN the coins in question show up in an auction is not innuendo. It's not acceptable for a business with any reputation at all to have let this happen.
I agree with Lanlord on this. If they previously took a report on the stolen coins and failed to take the victim seriously when he reported it, at a minimum their internal systems aren't working very well regarding stolen property reports. >>
I'm sure that it would be easy to keep cert numbers on file to check with and cert numbers that may have been stolen. This could easily be checked with their computers. Maybe this bad publicity will push HA into such practices.
<< <i>2 hours 27 minutes from the initial post to Stewart's post regarding the listing being pulled...good work CU. >>
I'm still showing the auctions as active as of 3:05pm PT
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>2 hours 27 minutes from the initial post to Stewart's post regarding the listing being pulled...good work CU. >>
I'm still showing the auctions as active as of 3:05pm PT >>
Keep it down, people are busy patting themselves on the back for a job well done.
<< <i>I hope somebody gets caught. That would make this almost a perfect ending to a horrible theft. >>
I concur.
<< <i>Yes, I see that my coins are still up for auction. The Police Detective just called me and informed me that he faxed HA all the police documentation they requested......sigh[/q
GET YOURSELF A LAWYER TO REPRESENT YOUR INTERESTS. DO IT NOW.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Why give them a warning by pulling them until the police rattle their cage.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>Reading thru the entire thread to me it seems like Heritage handled it correctly in a timely matter!
......it wouldn't be an issue if Heritage had followed thru on their agreement to watch for the stolen coins that were reported to them .......
<< <i>Very good chance the coins were sold to a third party (dealer?) who is familiar with selling on HA. Chances are they won't get the burglar, but at least you should get your coins back. Hopefully the same person bought all of them from the theif. >>
there has to be a trail , following backwards from the consignor , hand to hand - all the way back to who bought them from the thief
.......and the O.P I think stated he knew who the thief was ............!? there may be more here then the obvious
Oh yah, PS: the person who stole them also has friends in San Diego, so if you see them anywhere let me know. They are low pop and very obvious."
Russ, NCNE
when the cert number is enetered into the auction database, the system would automatically check the "look out" list.
it's a very simple thing to set up.
raw coins are a different matter.
You could post the details after police actions are complete.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
As MsMorrisine points out it is trivial to automate the checking of certs against a stolen coin DB.
I remember the post when these coins were first stolen. I'm already thinking poorly of Heritage for even stalling. If they don't get their act together soon I will no longer do business with them either.
<< <i>With the millions of coins Heritage handles each year, I think it's unrealistic to expect them to be able to pick out a handful of stolen ones. That said and being the case, they should not have made the commitment to do so when initially contacted.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree with you Russel but for one minor degree.
They are PR70DCAM IKEs which, without fail, fetch thousands and are not typically offered for sale.
Thank goodness that the true owner was vigilant in the quest.
The name is LEE!
your hallmark, what were they thinking?
Ron
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
There will likely need to be some damage control and spin put around this by them in order to alleviate the negative press it's giving them here.
I'm trying to think of good reasons why that would be. Either Heritage is doing the rightful owner an injustice or the rightful ownership of the coins was in question from the start. I can't think of any other explanations.
If Heritage is dragging their feet for no reason, it's a bad deal for them. If the rightful ownership is not clear, then this thread shouldn't even be here.
I knew it would happen.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Just hope the cops don't want to keep the coins for evidence. If they do, it'll be several years before you get them back. >>
I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH:
GET YOURSELF A LAWYER TO REPRESENT YOUR INTERESTS. DO IT NOW.
YOU WILL PROBABLY NEED A COURT ORDER TO PROTECT YOUR INTERESTS. DO IT NOW - TODAY.
Once it is decided to take down the auctions how long does that take? Who has to do it? My guess is the IT guy who will go into the system and take it down needs specific direction which probably has several layers of approval.
Are you guys thinking "Well if this was my ebay auction I'd have it down by now." ?
Taking their time and doing it right only reflects positively on Heritage.
--Jerry
<< <i>It may be that HA ultimately gets this thing right, that remains to be seen. In the meantime, the problem is that they have not acted in a way that would cause the OP (or any of us if we were in her shoes) to feel any reassurance-in fact, just the opposite. Major PR/customer service error if nothing else. >>
I totally disagree. If some crackpot claimed that my consignment coin was actually their coin, I now know that Heritage is not going to just take their word for it. Props to Heritage.
<< <i>It may be that HA ultimately gets this thing right, that remains to be seen. In the meantime, the problem is that they have not acted in a way that would cause the OP (or any of us if we were in her shoes) to feel any reassurance-in fact, just the opposite. Major PR/customer service error if nothing else. >>
Would you feel the same way if you had consigned the coins and, for all you knew, had good title to them? It is more prudent and responsible for them NOT to act rashly and to sort things out in a manner that is fair to all innocent parties. I am confident that they will do the right thing