Larry, Whahooooo! I'm glad to know that persistence does pay off for the good guys - thanks for letting us know, and please keep us posted on how long he will continue being a guest of the state!
Every honest business person applauds your efforts. I am sorry for your experience and equally grateful that you went through the agonizing process of prosecution. You are to be applauded. I am hopeful that you and any others who were robbed from are made whole.
<< <i>Every honest business person applauds your efforts. I am sorry for your experience and equally grateful that you went through the agonizing process of prosecution. You are to be applauded. I am hopeful that you and any others who were robbed from are made whole. >>
The honest business persons need to follow his example and not sit by and get taken.
So sorry to hear about the scum who ripped you off larry.Hope it gets resolved soon.Everyone here has only nice things to say about you.So it is really a shame. Look Im just a small fry here collecting SLQs,peace dollars,and gold buffalos but it seems to me that this issue comes up every so often.Someone mentioned waiting for the check to clear but it can take up to 30 days believe it or not.There have been instances where a check cleared,the coins were sent,and then the payees bank took the money back out when it turned out to be a stolen check. Just a suggestion:how about putting a 21 or 30 day hold on an out of state check?When I order 180.00 worth of silver from apmex they dont send it until the check has been in their bank for 2 to 3 weeks.Hope this helps
Sorry to hear about the problem. I tell all customers, who I have an "uncertain" feeling about based on any number of factors, that a personal check is 3 - 4 weeks before shipment, and if they don't like that, then they can make payment some other way or not proceed with the purchase.
In my view, unless it's almost worthless garbage that I can't sell to almost anyone else, why take a risk for say $1,000 when I can sell it with basically no risk for say $975 - that just makes good business sense to me.
Fantastic news, Larry! Good job in staying focused on this crook.
THis thread is a treasure for two other reasons. I particularly enjoyed these 2 comments:
------- Larry:
I am really sorry that this happened to you. This individual is simply a crook; a thief; a person who exploits the good nature of the hobby and business that we love. I hope you have success in recovering your coins or your funds.
To everyone posting about the banks: I worked for two of the biggies and there some facts about banking everyone needs to understand. These are the facts I am not endorsing the practices but I worked in processing systems and these are the realities:
1. Larry's bank knew within minutes that the check was bad. Not hours certainly not days. 2. The bank not only loses nothing with the check being bad it actually makes money. Most banks charge the depositor a fee for a returned check. That leads to... 3. Fees. Banks hate checking accounts. Hate them. Business or personal checking accounts are a pain in the rear for banks. The only reason banks provide checking accounts is to get the other business from the account holder. Fees of all sorts are part of checking accounts and a profit center for banks. 4. The bank wants checks to bounce. The system is built so both banks make money on a bounced check. If Larry, assuming the funds were available, had written checks on those funds and consequentially checks had bounced the bank is even happier. More fees and the corresponding institutions are just as happy. 5. Today if one takes a check into an issuer's bank that bank will most probably refuse to cash it unless the recipient both (a) has an account in the issuer's bank (b) has sufficient funds to cover that check in the event of the checking being dishonored and (c) is willing to have those funds embargoed for a number of days. Those days lead to another profit center... 6. The float. Remember number 1? The bank knew the check was bad. It didn't care. Funds or no funds the bank was going to hold that credit to Larry's account for a few days to make money on the overnight rates. 7. Branch banks are operated by humans; some of them nice some of them not nice. They universally have zero power. Unless it is a one branch community bank where the bank officer is an actual bank officer (I was one of 8,000 vice presidents of the world's largest bank in the 1990s) the people you are speaking with have no authority. They also generally make less than the person who asks you if you want fries with that number 1 at the drive-through.
Never assume that any interaction with a bank is anything other than an opportunity for the bank employee to provide you minimally acceptable service and move on to the customer. The bank's employees may be the nicest people in the world but they are being measured every second that they spend with you. They have quotas and standards to meet. The bank has to make x dollars per y unit of time and if it misses those numbers enough the branch is closed. Those crummy jobs are crummy but they are jobs.
Your bank wants you really for one thing: credit cards. They borrow funds (mostly from the taxpayors) at less than one percent. They lend it on credit cards at rates between 9% (850 FICO) and 24.99% annual rate. Ten percent default? Who cares, they are making between 1,000% and 2,499% on the spread.
They hate checking accounts; they hate customers coming in the bank. Banks are not your friend and have not been for a couple of generations.
I am not cynical I have been on the inside this is reality.
Rick
--------
And also this one, from Chris at Northeast Numismatics:
--------
Larry (and anyone else who is trying to recover money or coins from someone like this), I can recommend someone who tracks down deadbeats for a living. His name is Raymond J. Ferrell. (Spelling last name might be wrong.) He's not the baseball bat kind of collector. He has a law degree and I think he just continues hounding the person until collection is made.
Several years ago we had someone file a fraudulent credit card charge-back on a $10,000 coin. After doing what we could, which included contacting law enforcement, we hired Raymond. He flew to this guy's town and got the coin back. He worked some with local police and he also staked out the guy's place and knocked on his door as soon as he was home. We got the coin back. Granted, it cost us around $3000 to get the coin, but it was better to be out $3k than $10k.
If anyone would like Raymond's contact information, send me a PM. I'll find his business card and give you his phone number and the correct spelling of his last name.
Great news, Larry! The entire numismatic community has benefited from your dogged persistence on this matter! Please keep us updated as this goes thru the legal process.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
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<< <i>Every honest business person applauds your efforts. I am sorry for your experience and equally grateful that you went through the agonizing process of prosecution. You are to be applauded. I am hopeful that you and any others who were robbed from are made whole. >>
The honest business persons need to follow his example and not sit by and get taken.
Way to go!
and Todd... be careful not to drop the soap in the shower!!
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So sorry to hear about the scum who ripped you off larry.Hope it gets resolved soon.Everyone here has only nice things to say about you.So it is really a shame.
Look Im just a small fry here collecting SLQs,peace dollars,and gold buffalos but it seems to me that this issue comes up every so often.Someone mentioned waiting for the check to clear but it can take up to 30 days believe it or not.There have been instances where a check cleared,the coins were sent,and then the payees bank took the money back out when it turned out to be a stolen check.
Just a suggestion:how about putting a 21 or 30 day hold on an out of state check?When I order 180.00 worth of silver from apmex they dont send it until the check has been in their bank for 2 to 3 weeks.Hope this helps
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In my view, unless it's almost worthless garbage that I can't sell to almost anyone else, why take a risk for say $1,000 when I can sell it with basically no risk for say $975 - that just makes good business sense to me.
THis thread is a treasure for two other reasons. I particularly enjoyed these 2 comments:
-------
Larry:
I am really sorry that this happened to you. This individual is simply a crook; a thief; a person who exploits the good nature of the hobby and business that we love. I hope you have success in recovering your coins or your funds.
To everyone posting about the banks: I worked for two of the biggies and there some facts about banking everyone needs to understand. These are the facts I am not endorsing the practices but I worked in processing systems and these are the realities:
1. Larry's bank knew within minutes that the check was bad. Not hours certainly not days.
2. The bank not only loses nothing with the check being bad it actually makes money. Most banks charge the depositor a fee for a returned check. That leads to...
3. Fees. Banks hate checking accounts. Hate them. Business or personal checking accounts are a pain in the rear for banks. The only reason banks provide checking accounts is to get the other business from the account holder. Fees of all sorts are part of checking accounts and a profit center for banks.
4. The bank wants checks to bounce. The system is built so both banks make money on a bounced check. If Larry, assuming the funds were available, had written checks on those funds and consequentially checks had bounced the bank is even happier. More fees and the corresponding institutions are just as happy.
5. Today if one takes a check into an issuer's bank that bank will most probably refuse to cash it unless the recipient both (a) has an account in the issuer's bank (b) has sufficient funds to cover that check in the event of the checking being dishonored and (c) is willing to have those funds embargoed for a number of days. Those days lead to another profit center...
6. The float. Remember number 1? The bank knew the check was bad. It didn't care. Funds or no funds the bank was going to hold that credit to Larry's account for a few days to make money on the overnight rates.
7. Branch banks are operated by humans; some of them nice some of them not nice. They universally have zero power. Unless it is a one branch community bank where the bank officer is an actual bank officer (I was one of 8,000 vice presidents of the world's largest bank in the 1990s) the people you are speaking with have no authority. They also generally make less than the person who asks you if you want fries with that number 1 at the drive-through.
Never assume that any interaction with a bank is anything other than an opportunity for the bank employee to provide you minimally acceptable service and move on to the customer. The bank's employees may be the nicest people in the world but they are being measured every second that they spend with you. They have quotas and standards to meet. The bank has to make x dollars per y unit of time and if it misses those numbers enough the branch is closed. Those crummy jobs are crummy but they are jobs.
Your bank wants you really for one thing: credit cards. They borrow funds (mostly from the taxpayors) at less than one percent. They lend it on credit cards at rates between 9% (850 FICO) and 24.99% annual rate. Ten percent default? Who cares, they are making between 1,000% and 2,499% on the spread.
They hate checking accounts; they hate customers coming in the bank. Banks are not your friend and have not been for a couple of generations.
I am not cynical I have been on the inside this is reality.
Rick
--------
And also this one, from Chris at Northeast Numismatics:
--------
Larry (and anyone else who is trying to recover money or coins from someone like this), I can recommend someone who tracks down deadbeats for a living. His name is Raymond J. Ferrell. (Spelling last name might be wrong.) He's not the baseball bat kind of collector. He has a law degree and I think he just continues hounding the person until collection is made.
Several years ago we had someone file a fraudulent credit card charge-back on a $10,000 coin. After doing what we could, which included contacting law enforcement, we hired Raymond. He flew to this guy's town and got the coin back. He worked some with local police and he also staked out the guy's place and knocked on his door as soon as he was home. We got the coin back. Granted, it cost us around $3000 to get the coin, but it was better to be out $3k than $10k.
If anyone would like Raymond's contact information, send me a PM. I'll find his business card and give you his phone number and the correct spelling of his last name.
Chris
----------
Coin Rarities Online
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
Chris
Excellent work Larry!
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