<< <i>I took a check from a buyer to his bank PNC, and since I did not have an account with them, they charged me $5 to cash the check. This is the first time, I have been charged for doing this. >>
BOA has done that for years. From time to time i have renters that bank with them. I have thought about refusing to take them because of issues in the past with the checks i have taken bounced. My bank charges 3 bucks for dealing with bounced checks although i see they waive the fee on my account. I get about 4 to10 rent checks that do not clear the first go round in a years time. Some banks will run them twice so i would check into that. I asked my bank not to run them a second time and just send them back to me or hold them till my next trip in and pick them up.
You got off light, i took a check to the bank it was written on and was charged 8 bucks to cash it, I was irked to say the least. The teller claimed that the fee or part of the fee was actually being charged by the company that wrote me the check. SO being the smart a$$ i am i ask to open up a similiar account, i was told i would have to have my DBA, Fed ID and other papers to start with. I told her no problem as i had that with me in my truck. ( I was already thinking about those 8 dollar fees being deposited in my checking account from the electric company, cell phone provider and the like)
I spent another 5 minutes getting a run around and left.
I did have the option of depositing the check into my bank without a fee but i had a reason not to do that on this transaction so i paid the 8 bucks.
Back to the OP, i hope you get this taken care of as i am tired of all the lowlife scum pulling crap like this. I just do not have much faith with the "officials" that are in charge with supposedly doing their jobs. They are now being flooded with tons of this kind of crap, that plays into the hand of the criminals.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Another avenue of footwork that Larry could do is track down the owner of the phone number thru a public records search. I just did a quick check and it is a Memphis area number and does not appear to be a throw-away.
Also, the mail drop agent should have gotten positive ID for the rental of the drop box.
I tried to find the location in Chicago of this bank - does it exist? the street and address I mean - and why would a big bank have a suite as their address?
I wish I could find where that bank routing number went to - or is all the info on this check bogus? >>
The same exact bank routing number (071923022) and account number (5590093190) was used in another scam a year ago. LINK
And there are many more using the same routing but different accounts... LINK
<< <i>Todd Young/Davis..........if you are by chance reading this thread do you remember me from 2005 where I sent you a check for a group of coins you had for sale? you cashed the check, and I never got the coins?
do you remember PQDOLLARS?
do you remember taking a year to repay that debt (something about a gambling problem) after some "prodding" on my end?
do you remember that I have 28 years in law enforcement? tracking/serving outstanding warrants was my speciality?
do you know that Larry is an ex business partner that I hold in high regard in the industry?
do you know what it's like to look over your shoulder everywhere you go and wonder who may be behind you?
do you know that there is nothing I enjoy more than going on a good hunting trip?
you understand the "thrill" of getting 14k for a few hours work/fun? right? so will I, soon......but I'll do it for FREE! >>
A hearty well done to you sir,
Those that have the ability and offering to to use those abilities to help a fellow man in trouble without expectation of reward or payment is the sign of a great human being of the highest order.
I wish you the best of fun and luck in this hunt. It can be as fun as hunting die varieties and errors in our chosen hobby
In these days of electronic banking, how can it take a large (and real) bank 5 days to figure out that a check was written on a bogus bank, address and routing number? it should take at most 30 seconds!
I ran a mailbox store for a while many years back. I used to have the person opening the box provide a utility bill and 2 forms of ID one was a state issued drivers license or identification card. I always mailed a postcard " saying this is to conform your location"to the address if they did not bring that in within a week I declined to open a box for them.
The mail box store may of had a similar way to confirm home or work addresses for the scum and perhaps have current information such as phone and email many of these stores send a email when a person receives mail or a package.
There is a form that has to be available to the postmaster (USPS FORM 1583) on file at the location of the box. Here in Cali we have to have that information for each person that receives mail or each company or entity.The postmaster can inspect that at any time. Identification information has to be with that form and must be kept current. In one year i had to let law enforcement review specific files in response to a warrant. I also had to let the postmaster look at my files for compliance and was told that it is a misdemeanor to not keep the information current this was 2 times in a year.
I would send a certified letter to the mailbox store and explain this is being investigated and that it is possible that the owner of the location will be served as well in a claim since this criminal activity is long term. If the mailbox store was aware of past criminal activity they may be also liable.The local postmaster may intervene as well if you were to call and talk with them. I am sure you have done so but file a police report in the scums city. This is a private mailbox and the operators have to use reasonable care at least to avoid criminal activity.
You might also try calling the mail box store and talking to the person who handles the incoming mail. Talk to the person off the record and see if they may be helpful there not allowed to give any information out but the human factor may be there or a suggestion of a hundred bucks and 5 % of the loss if you recover the coins.
The scum may of used his correct information opening the box knowing its not public and typically a police warrant has to be used to get the information. If you get his real address he may feel pressured enough to resolve this.
<<< I called the bank...B of A...who would not tell me if the check was good or bad..against their policy. >>>
Sorry to hear about the bad check. Just for future information, I think you phrased the question to the bank incorrectly - they definitely will not tell you if a check is good or bad, and they will not give out a customer's account balance.
...the way to phrase the question is, "I've got a $15,000 check for this person, is it okay to deposit the check? I've never had a bank not tell me "Yes" or "No" to that question. If they say "Yes" that means the buyer has at least 15K in his account...doesn't mean the check is good because he may have other checks written, however it does give a good indication of what's going on with the buyer.
I have a bad feeling that if you would've asked the bank rep on the phone, "I've got a $500 check for this person, is it okay to deposit the check?...they would have said "No"
<< <i>In these days of electronic banking, how can it take a large (and real) bank 5 days to figure out that a check was written on a bogus bank, address and routing number? it should take at most 30 seconds! >>
I hope someone in the banking industry reads this and provides an answer. Checks I write clear electronically within 2 business days of the receiver depositing it.
I wonder if there is a delay at the bank where the check is deposited. (i.e. Between the time a check is "known" bad and the time the account holder is made aware of it.)
Larry (and anyone else who is trying to recover money or coins from someone like this), I can recommend someone who tracks down deadbeats for a living. His name is Raymond J. Ferrell. (Spelling last name might be wrong.) He's not the baseball bat kind of collector. He has a law degree and I think he just continues hounding the person until collection is made.
Several years ago we had someone file a fraudulent credit card charge-back on a $10,000 coin. After doing what we could, which included contacting law enforcement, we hired Raymond. He flew to this guy's town and got the coin back. He worked some with local police and he also staked out the guy's place and knocked on his door as soon as he was home. We got the coin back. Granted, it cost us around $3000 to get the coin, but it was better to be out $3k than $10k.
If anyone would like Raymond's contact information, send me a PM. I'll find his business card and give you his phone number and the correct spelling of his last name.
<< <i>He's not the baseball bat kind of collector. >>
That's too bad. Sounds like he deserves a little "street justice".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
I am really sorry that this happened to you. This individual is simply a crook; a thief; a person who exploits the good nature of the hobby and business that we love. I hope you have success in recovering your coins or your funds.
To everyone posting about the banks: I worked for two of the biggies and there some facts about banking everyone needs to understand. These are the facts I am not endorsing the practices but I worked in processing systems and these are the realities:
1. Larry's bank knew within minutes that the check was bad. Not hours certainly not days. 2. The bank not only loses nothing with the check being bad it actually makes money. Most banks charge the depositor a fee for a returned check. That leads to... 3. Fees. Banks hate checking accounts. Hate them. Business or personal checking accounts are a pain in the rear for banks. The only reason banks provide checking accounts is to get the other business from the account holder. Fees of all sorts are part of checking accounts and a profit center for banks. 4. The bank wants checks to bounce. The system is built so both banks make money on a bounced check. If Larry, assuming the funds were available, had written checks on those funds and consequentially checks had bounced the bank is even happier. More fees and the corresponding institutions are just as happy. 5. Today if one takes a check into an issuer's bank that bank will most probably refuse to cash it unless the recipient both (a) has an account in the issuer's bank (b) has sufficient funds to cover that check in the event of the checking being dishonored and (c) is willing to have those funds embargoed for a number of days. Those days lead to another profit center... 6. The float. Remember number 1? The bank knew the check was bad. It didn't care. Funds or no funds the bank was going to hold that credit to Larry's account for a few days to make money on the overnight rates. 7. Branch banks are operated by humans; some of them nice some of them not nice. They universally have zero power. Unless it is a one branch community bank where the bank officer is an actual bank officer (I was one of 8,000 vice presidents of the world's largest bank in the 1990s) the people you are speaking with have no authority. They also generally make less than the person who asks you if you want fries with that number 1 at the drive-through.
Never assume that any interaction with a bank is anything other than an opportunity for the bank employee to provide you minimally acceptable service and move on to the customer. The bank's employees may be the nicest people in the world but they are being measured every second that they spend with you. They have quotas and standards to meet. The bank has to make x dollars per y unit of time and if it misses those numbers enough the branch is closed. Those crummy jobs are crummy but they are jobs.
Your bank wants you really for one thing: credit cards. They borrow funds (mostly from the taxpayors) at less than one percent. They lend it on credit cards at rates between 9% (850 FICO) and 24.99% annual rate. Ten percent default? Who cares, they are making between 1,000% and 2,499% on the spread.
They hate checking accounts; they hate customers coming in the bank. Banks are not your friend and have not been for a couple of generations.
I am not cynical I have been on the inside this is reality.
Rick
Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
I live in the area where the smooth edge Washington dollars were released a few years ago. I went to my local branch and paid the head teller a hundred bucks to get me four boxes a week. She did. A month of that and one Friday I found 1,300 of the things. She got a roll as thank you.
The only thing she required is that when I redeposited to coins in my account I do it at another branch. Those folks really hated to see me coming in.
Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
Not long ago, my wife and I were talking with a woman at a bank about loans or another. On closing, I congratulated her and she asked why. I said, "aren't you expecting?" She said, "No, I'm just chubby." Don't believe for a second my wife didn't smack me with that one.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
I just saw this thread and I'm very sorry this happened to you Larry, and I hope you are able to recover your loss somehow and also get the satisfaction of knowing this individual gets caught and justice is served.
One thing I just realized after seeing a pic of the actual bogus check........ I'm quite surprised that someone at Larry's bank didn't catch the "LaSalle Bank" thing on the check as I thought it was fairly well publicized (especially within the banking industry) that BofA aquired LaSalle quite awhile ago and that a current dated check with LaSalle Bank on it would be a huge red flag.
News soon. I will be sending my large file to the detective in charge tomorrow. I am trying to help all the dealers who were screwed. I told Todd that he was messing with the wrong guy
Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC POB 854 Temecula CA 92593 310-541-7222 office 310-710-2869 cell www.LSRarecoins.com Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26 Baltimore July 14-17 Chicago August 11-15
Glad they caught the perp. Hopefully restitution is part of the sentence. Much of the time our public servants won't even get out of their chairs for anything less than $1 MILLION in fraud and that includes the USPS inspectors as well. A million just ain't what it used to be.
Thats's GREAT news, Larry! I guess he WAS messing with the wrong guy! Larry, by staying focused (pi$$ed helps too) on getting this guy his 'just deserts'. Can you all imagine what his 'roomies' will think when he's asked that age old question, "what'd you do to get here', and he answers 'ripped off a coin dealer'??? His new 'roomies' are gonna have a field day!!! If he's smart, he'll tell them he robbed a bank, or killed someone...a respectable crime (respectable by inmates standards). You are DA MAN for getting this scumbag locked up.
Now, do we have to blame you for having our tax dollars pay to feed, clothe, and house this scumbag? (I am really just kidding with this part!)
While we're all hoping the criminal will be convicted and restitution will be made, that still remains to be seen. In the meantime, I still can't get over how you were mistreated so despicably by your bank. I consider the bank criminally negligent, although the bank officers involved probably got fat bonuses. Please provide us more details about the case as soon as you are legally allowed to do so.
Comments
<< <i>I took a check from a buyer to his bank PNC, and since I did not have an account with them, they charged me $5 to cash the check. This is the first time, I have been charged for doing this. >>
BOA has done that for years. From time to time i have renters that bank with them. I have thought about refusing to take them because of issues in the past with the checks i have taken bounced. My bank charges 3 bucks for dealing with bounced checks although i see they waive the fee on my account. I get about 4 to10 rent checks that do not clear the first go round in a years time. Some banks will run them twice so i would check into that. I asked my bank not to run them a second time and just send them back to me or hold them till my next trip in and pick them up.
You got off light, i took a check to the bank it was written on and was charged 8 bucks to cash it, I was irked to say the least. The teller claimed that the fee or part of the fee was actually being charged by the company that wrote me the check. SO being the smart a$$ i am i ask to open up a similiar account, i was told i would have to have my DBA, Fed ID and other papers to start with. I told her no problem as i had that with me in my truck. ( I was already thinking about those 8 dollar fees being deposited in my checking account from the electric company, cell phone provider and the like)
I spent another 5 minutes getting a run around and left.
I did have the option of depositing the check into my bank without a fee but i had a reason not to do that on this transaction so i paid the 8 bucks.
Back to the OP, i hope you get this taken care of as i am tired of all the lowlife scum pulling crap like this. I just do not have much faith with the "officials" that are in charge with supposedly doing their jobs. They are now being flooded with tons of this kind of crap, that plays into the hand of the criminals.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Also, the mail drop agent should have gotten positive ID for the rental of the drop box.
<< <i>here is the check
I tried to find the location in Chicago of this bank - does it exist? the street and address I mean - and why would a big bank have a suite as their address?
I wish I could find where that bank routing number went to - or is all the info on this check bogus? >>
The same exact bank routing number (071923022) and account number (5590093190) was used in another scam a year ago.
LINK
And there are many more using the same routing but different accounts... LINK
<< <i>Todd Young/Davis..........if you are by chance reading this thread do you remember me from 2005 where I sent you a check for a group of coins you had for sale? you cashed the check, and I never got the coins?
do you remember PQDOLLARS?
do you remember taking a year to repay that debt (something about a gambling problem) after some "prodding" on my end?
do you remember that I have 28 years in law enforcement? tracking/serving outstanding warrants was my speciality?
do you know that Larry is an ex business partner that I hold in high regard in the industry?
do you know what it's like to look over your shoulder everywhere you go and wonder who may be behind you?
do you know that there is nothing I enjoy more than going on a good hunting trip?
you understand the "thrill" of getting 14k for a few hours work/fun? right? so will I, soon......but I'll do it for FREE! >>
A hearty well done to you sir,
Those that have the ability and offering to to use those abilities to help a fellow man in trouble without expectation of reward or payment is the sign of a great human being of the highest order.
I wish you the best of fun and luck in this hunt. It can be as fun as hunting die varieties and errors in our chosen hobby
Terry
to La Salle Bank in Matson, IL
link to page
and DuPapa has a link to a Sweepstakes scam in 2007 that has the exact same account with routing number
I ran a mailbox store for a while many years back. I used to have the person opening the box provide a utility bill and 2 forms of ID one was a state issued drivers license or identification card. I always mailed a postcard " saying this is to conform your location"to the address if they did not bring that in within a week I declined to open a box for them.
The mail box store may of had a similar way to confirm home or work addresses for the scum and perhaps have current information such as phone and email many of these stores send a email when a person receives mail or a package.
There is a form that has to be available to the postmaster (USPS FORM 1583) on file at the location of the box. Here in Cali we have to have that information for each person that receives mail or each company or entity.The postmaster can inspect that at any time. Identification information has to be with that form and must be kept current. In one year i had to let law enforcement review specific files in response to a warrant. I also had to let the postmaster look at my files for compliance and was told that it is a misdemeanor to not keep the information current this was 2 times in a year.
I would send a certified letter to the mailbox store and explain this is being investigated and that it is possible that the owner of the location will be served as well in a claim
since this criminal activity is long term. If the mailbox store was aware of past criminal activity they may be also liable.The local postmaster may intervene as well if you were to call and talk with them. I am sure you have done so but file a police report in the scums city. This is a private mailbox and the operators have to use reasonable care at least to avoid criminal activity.
You might also try calling the mail box store and talking to the person who handles the incoming mail. Talk to the person off the record and see if they may be helpful there not allowed to give any information out but the human factor may be there or a suggestion of a hundred bucks and 5 % of the loss if you recover the coins.
The scum may of used his correct information opening the box knowing its not public and typically a police warrant has to be used to get the information. If you get his real address he may feel pressured enough to resolve this.
Sorry to hear about the bad check. Just for future information, I think you phrased the question to the bank incorrectly - they definitely will not tell you if a check is good or bad, and they will not give out a customer's account balance.
...the way to phrase the question is, "I've got a $15,000 check for this person, is it okay to deposit the check? I've never had a bank not tell me "Yes" or "No" to that question. If they say "Yes" that means the buyer has at least 15K in his account...doesn't mean the check is good because he may have other checks written, however it does give a good indication of what's going on with the buyer.
I have a bad feeling that if you would've asked the bank rep on the phone, "I've got a $500 check for this person, is it okay to deposit the check?...they would have said "No"
<< <i>In these days of electronic banking, how can it take a large (and real) bank 5 days to figure out that a check was written on a bogus bank, address and routing number? it should take at most 30 seconds! >>
I hope someone in the banking industry reads this and provides an answer. Checks I write clear electronically within 2 business days of the receiver depositing it.
I wonder if there is a delay at the bank where the check is deposited. (i.e. Between the time a check is "known" bad and the time the account holder is made aware of it.)
Several years ago we had someone file a fraudulent credit card charge-back on a $10,000 coin. After doing what we could, which included contacting law enforcement, we hired Raymond. He flew to this guy's town and got the coin back. He worked some with local police and he also staked out the guy's place and knocked on his door as soon as he was home. We got the coin back. Granted, it cost us around $3000 to get the coin, but it was better to be out $3k than $10k.
If anyone would like Raymond's contact information, send me a PM. I'll find his business card and give you his phone number and the correct spelling of his last name.
Chris
<< <i>He's not the baseball bat kind of collector.
... staked out the guy's place and knocked on his door as soon as he was home. We got the coin back. >>
tazer???
sounds like a great reference. saved!
<< <i>He's not the baseball bat kind of collector. >>
That's too bad. Sounds like he deserves a little "street justice".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I am really sorry that this happened to you. This individual is simply a crook; a thief; a person who exploits the good nature of the hobby and business that we love. I hope you have success in recovering your coins or your funds.
To everyone posting about the banks: I worked for two of the biggies and there some facts about banking everyone needs to understand. These are the facts I am not endorsing the practices but I worked in processing systems and these are the realities:
1. Larry's bank knew within minutes that the check was bad. Not hours certainly not days.
2. The bank not only loses nothing with the check being bad it actually makes money. Most banks charge the depositor a fee for a returned check. That leads to...
3. Fees. Banks hate checking accounts. Hate them. Business or personal checking accounts are a pain in the rear for banks. The only reason banks provide checking accounts is to get the other business from the account holder. Fees of all sorts are part of checking accounts and a profit center for banks.
4. The bank wants checks to bounce. The system is built so both banks make money on a bounced check. If Larry, assuming the funds were available, had written checks on those funds and consequentially checks had bounced the bank is even happier. More fees and the corresponding institutions are just as happy.
5. Today if one takes a check into an issuer's bank that bank will most probably refuse to cash it unless the recipient both (a) has an account in the issuer's bank (b) has sufficient funds to cover that check in the event of the checking being dishonored and (c) is willing to have those funds embargoed for a number of days. Those days lead to another profit center...
6. The float. Remember number 1? The bank knew the check was bad. It didn't care. Funds or no funds the bank was going to hold that credit to Larry's account for a few days to make money on the overnight rates.
7. Branch banks are operated by humans; some of them nice some of them not nice. They universally have zero power. Unless it is a one branch community bank where the bank officer is an actual bank officer (I was one of 8,000 vice presidents of the world's largest bank in the 1990s) the people you are speaking with have no authority. They also generally make less than the person who asks you if you want fries with that number 1 at the drive-through.
Never assume that any interaction with a bank is anything other than an opportunity for the bank employee to provide you minimally acceptable service and move on to the customer. The bank's employees may be the nicest people in the world but they are being measured every second that they spend with you. They have quotas and standards to meet. The bank has to make x dollars per y unit of time and if it misses those numbers enough the branch is closed. Those crummy jobs are crummy but they are jobs.
Your bank wants you really for one thing: credit cards. They borrow funds (mostly from the taxpayors) at less than one percent. They lend it on credit cards at rates between 9% (850 FICO) and 24.99% annual rate. Ten percent default? Who cares, they are making between 1,000% and 2,499% on the spread.
They hate checking accounts; they hate customers coming in the bank. Banks are not your friend and have not been for a couple of generations.
I am not cynical I have been on the inside this is reality.
Rick
<< <i>They hate checking accounts; they hate customers coming in the bank. Banks are not your friend and have not been for a couple of generations. >>
You mean they don't like people coming in asking for BU rolls/singles of specific coins? Who knew?
I live in the area where the smooth edge Washington dollars were released a few years ago. I went to my local branch and paid the head teller a hundred bucks to get me four boxes a week. She did. A month of that and one Friday I found 1,300 of the things. She got a roll as thank you.
The only thing she required is that when I redeposited to coins in my account I do it at another branch. Those folks really hated to see me coming in.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
One thing I just realized after seeing a pic of the actual bogus check........ I'm quite surprised that someone at Larry's bank didn't catch the "LaSalle Bank" thing on the check as I thought it was fairly well publicized (especially within the banking industry) that BofA aquired LaSalle quite awhile ago and that a current dated check with LaSalle Bank on it would be a huge red flag.
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
The Penny Lady®
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Good job!!
I will be sending my large file to the detective in charge tomorrow.
I am trying to help all the dealers who were screwed.
I told Todd that he was messing with the wrong guy
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
less than $1 MILLION in fraud and that includes the USPS inspectors as well. A million just ain't what it used to be.
roadrunner
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
AB
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Don't you love it when justice prevails?
Lance.
Now, do we have to blame you for having our tax dollars pay to feed, clothe, and house this scumbag?
WAY TO GO! Congratulations on a job well done!!!
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
He got what he deserves. What a loser.