He beat us once a few years ago. He ALMOST beat us again one year later, under a different name. He then tried AGAIN last year and then TWICE more this year, all under different names (but similar variations to one another). He has been in operation for the past few years and has gotten away scot free.
Here are the names he's used on us:
David Young David Todd David's Coins Deltaland Metals David Rollins (most recent) A.V. Productions (most recent)
1605 N Germantown Pkwy. Suite 111-185 Cordova, TN 38016 (most recent)
I have a whole slew of email addresses, too. Larry, should you want it, I'm happy to provide any documentation to you, including the bogus checks. Just let me know.
<< <i>I might be stupid for asking but does any form of small business insurance help with this? I had a friend who was embezzled from and after it was varifyied by an accountant it was covered 75%. I would think that that would be harder to prevent than bad checks which would make it harder to insure >>
I'm don't know of any insurance coverage that covers bad checks.
There is insurance coverage available for Employee Dishonesty, which may be the type of coverage your friend has.
Once this guy is caught, he's in a WORLD of hurt. In addition to the charges of writing bad checks and theft, the fact that he has used THE U.S. MAIL SYSTEM to perpetrate his crimes means he is in for some BIG TIME $hit from the Feds. Mail fraud has some SERIOUS teeth to it: up to 20 years in federal prison AND a $250,000 fine for EACH INSTANCE. By my reading of this thread, I count at least 10 instances. Get the Feds involved because they WILL eventually nab this guy.
<< <i>I just got this email : from : Archie Arnold-Wynen archiearnold1@gmail.com Obvious whoever wrote this is a board member..
I stole your coins and I am damn proud of it, Larry. You will NOT be getting your money and I will gladly crack out each and every one of these coins and sell them raw at my next show. Suckers like you are born every day and you you just fold up shop, good for the rest of us. You're a wanna-be!
-Todd >>
Unbelievable
I doubt it is the same guy, but what kind of sick person would find humor in this situation.
Larry I am sorry to hear about this, >>
Now matter how good your reputation is, there is always SOMEONE out there who thinks that you wronged them.
It's amazing in today's electronic age that a check would take that long to clear. I would think that interbank communication would have progressed to the point that check varification would be almost instantanious. How hard is it to enter a routing number and account number into a computer and find out the balance of that account. Heck, you can check the balance of your account from almost any ATM, incuding ATM's that are not of your bank. I blame the banks for this fiasco.
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
Name: Todd Davis Account: todddavis (View Profile) Email: todd@bigmanmotors.com Phone: 901-483-8077 Ship To: Todd Davis 361 Southwest Drive, #135 Jonesboro AR, 72401 United States >>
That address is a UPS store, so it's a private PO box. With a subpeona, you could get the owner's info. Did you talk with the local PD there?
Name: Todd Davis Account: todddavis (View Profile) Email: todd@bigmanmotors.com Phone: 901-483-8077 Ship To: Todd Davis 361 Southwest Drive, #135 Jonesboro AR, 72401 United States >>
That address is a UPS store, so it's a private PO box. With a subpeona, you could get the owner's info. Did you talk with the local PD there? >>
Most of his addresses, as well the addresses of all the other run-of-the-mill crooks who have tried to rip us off, are UPS store kind of places. The problem we've always encountered in pursuing such cases is that the local PD in the locations of the crooks won't talk to us. They insist we contact our local PD. And our local PD has never seemed very interested in pursuing someone halfway across the country who is writing bogus checks. Very frustrating to see clowns like this guy get away with this for SO LONG.
Sorry about this situation Larry. It amazes me also that in this electronic age, a check doesn't clear in 2-3 business days. I've held checks for 10 days that still had not "officially" cleared.
<< <i>The problem we've always encountered in pursuing such cases is that the local PD in the locations of the crooks won't talk to us. They insist we contact our local PD. And our local PD has never seemed very interested in pursuing someone halfway across the country who is writing bogus checks. >>
Yep, I'm very familar with this runaround. And, in my case, the PD's involved were in the same damned state.
<< <i> That doesn't jive with what I have heard about scam victims who have unknowingly cashed bogus cashier's checks and later been on the hook for the money. >>
Maybe you're thinking of is victims that deposited bogus checks into their account and later were on the hook for it. (not ones that cashed the bogus checks because the issuing bank can tell they're bogus and won't cash them)
I think if you take a cashiers check to it's bank and cash it that's a done deal and it might be the same with a personal check. Cash it at it's bank, don't deposit it at yours. Isn't that the case?
<< <i> That doesn't jive with what I have heard about scam victims who have unknowingly cashed bogus cashier's checks and later been on the hook for the money. >>
Maybe you're thinking of is victims that deposited bogus checks into their account and later were on the hook for it. (not ones that cashed the bogus checks because the issuing bank can tell they're bogus and won't cash them)
I think if you take a cashiers check to it's bank and cash it that's a done deal and it might be the same with a personal check. Cash it at it's bank, don't deposit it at yours. Isn't that the case? >>
I certainly might be mistaken. But I thought that if you cash a check which turns out to be bad, you are on the hook for the amount, even if you did so innocently.
<< <i> That doesn't jive with what I have heard about scam victims who have unknowingly cashed bogus cashier's checks and later been on the hook for the money. >>
Maybe you're thinking of is victims that deposited bogus checks into their account and later were on the hook for it. (not ones that cashed the bogus checks because the issuing bank can tell they're bogus and won't cash them)
I think if you take a cashiers check to it's bank and cash it that's a done deal and it might be the same with a personal check. Cash it at it's bank, don't deposit it at yours. Isn't that the case? >>
I certainly might be mistaken. But I thought that if you cash a check which turns out to be bad, you are on the hook for the amount, even if you did so innocently. >>
The reason for cashing it at the checkwriter's bank is that they should be able to verify if he has sufficient funds to cover it, which they should do for large amounts.
The reason for cashing it at the checkwriter's bank is you do not need an account with them - just a picture id with your name on it.
you get cash, put in pocket and leave - they could have a difficult time seeing you again or no where you are from
I worked at a place a few years ago and on payday, many employess went to the local branch of the employers bank that the checks were drawn on. The bank had a couple tellers in a supermarket that was open from 9 to 5. Anyway an extra 30 checks were cashed one day - counterfeit checks with correct format and bogus names - bogus ids were used with the group and they cleared $50K that day - the bank ended up eating the loss - I am not sure if they ever found any of the perps
<< <i>It's amazing in today's electronic age that a check would take that long to clear. I would think that interbank communication would have progressed to the point that check varification would be almost instantanious. How hard is it to enter a routing number and account number into a computer and find out the balance of that account. Heck, you can check the balance of your account from almost any ATM, incuding ATM's that are not of your bank. I blame the banks for this fiasco. >>
Just a guess, but perhaps he boosted the balance of the accaunt he bought the coins with with bad checks drawn on other, out-of-state accounts. Might have taken time for those to bounce.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Sorry about this situation Larry. It amazes me also that in this electronic age, a check doesn't clear in 2-3 business days. I've held checks for 10 days that still had not "officially" cleared.
Best of luck nabbing the perp. >>
That's just it, It's the electronic age... Personal checks are like dinosaurs now, except among the coin community it seems.
Most businesses, if not all businesses today do not except personal checks, and I'm beginning to see why.
Sounds like this guy has been doing this for a while and knows what he's doing.
<< <i>The reason for cashing it at the checkwriter's bank is you do not need an account with them - just a picture id with your name on it.
you get cash, put in pocket and leave - they could have a difficult time seeing you again or no where you are from
I worked at a place a few years ago and on payday, many employess went to the local branch of the employers bank that the checks were drawn on. The bank had a couple tellers in a supermarket that was open from 9 to 5. Anyway an extra 30 checks were cashed one day - counterfeit checks with correct format and bogus names - bogus ids were used with the group and they cleared $50K that day - the bank ended up eating the loss - I am not sure if they ever found any of the perps >>
In all cases they will write your driver's license number on the check and sometimes require your fingerprint. In the case of a counterfeit or forged check I do believe they cannot take the money back from you unless they have evidence you were involved in the fraud.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>It's amazing in today's electronic age that a check would take that long to clear. I would think that interbank communication would have progressed to the point that check varification would be almost instantanious. How hard is it to enter a routing number and account number into a computer and find out the balance of that account. Heck, you can check the balance of your account from almost any ATM, incuding ATM's that are not of your bank. I blame the banks for this fiasco. >>
Just a guess, but perhaps he boosted the balance of the accaunt he bought the coins with with bad checks drawn on other, out-of-state accounts. Might have taken time for those to bounce.
TD >>
Generally the bank will not give you immediate use of such funds. You have to wait until they clear first.
Larry, sorry to hear about this creep ripping you off. It sounds like the perp is in the Memphis area based on the recent address supplied by nencoin. Quite a few posts on advice to prevent this type of thing from happening again, but no reimbursements can be offered. Before you ship any item especially the high end stuff use Google Earth to glass the location. At least you will know if you’re shipping to a mailbox store, gas station or whatever. If you ask your buyer about the address and they lie about the type of business you will know something stinks before the package leaves. Good luck in nailing this creep. Hopefully your buddy Steve (rkfish) will follow up his post with a stealth hunting trip.
<< <i>I just got this email : from : Archie Arnold-Wynen archiearnold1@gmail.com Obvious whoever wrote this is a board member..
I stole your coins and I am damn proud of it, Larry. You will NOT be getting your money and I will gladly crack out each and every one of these coins and sell them raw at my next show. Suckers like you are born every day and you you just fold up shop, good for the rest of us. You're a wanna-be!
-Todd >>
Unbelievable
I doubt it is the same guy, but what kind of sick person would find humor in this situation.
Larry I am sorry to hear about this, >>
Now matter how good your reputation is, there is always SOMEONE out there who thinks that you wronged them. >>
The domain name bigmanmotors was opened on 8/5/2010. There will be ways to catch this fella but it has to occur during the transaction, not after, so Larry's post is somewhat enlightening but what do you do?
I expect keeping a wary eye on all customers would be a start since whats to prevent multiple successful small purchases to build trust followed by the sting?
As for me, I would not accept a check over $1,000 but would insist on a bank wire transfer.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Not to play devil's advocate here, but why didn't the O.P call his bank to confirm the check indeed did clear? 14k is a lot of money and I would want to be 100% sure that I have the physical money from the check in my account no if's, and's, or but's. Why the O.P didn't do this is beyond me, it seems a bit irresponsible especially for that amount. I do sympathize with him, but I just don't understand why someone with so much experience in dealing coins could fall prey to such a common scam that happens all the time even today. Think Bobby Hughes back when he did it.
<< <i>Not to play devil's advocate here, but why didn't the O.P call his bank to confirm the check indeed did clear? 14k is a lot of money and I would want to be 100% sure that I have the physical money from the check in my account no if's, and's, or but's. Why the O.P didn't do this is beyond me, it seems a bit irresponsible especially for that amount. I do sympathize with him, but I just don't understand why someone with so much experience in dealing coins could fall prey to such a common scam that happens all the time even today. Think Bobby Hughes back when he did it. >>
In his first post the OP said..."went to my bank..Chase,and asked how long before we knew if the check was good..The teller said 2 days.. Just to be safe,I waited 5 days.I heard nothing,and online everything looked good. I sent the coins on the 6th day..." It looks to me like the OP did that. He just relied on the word of a teller that didn't know what he/she was talking about. Therefore how would one know that anyone they talked to at a bank knows what they are talking about? This is exactly why I would put any large check in for collection and not send the merchandise until after the funds were deposited in my account. They cannot reverse a deposit made from a check that was put in for collection.
I edited my initial post to this thread (page six) to include the name of David Rollins, which was associated with his most recent attempt to scam us. By the way, Larry, I have his IP address from every single one of his web orders. I'll be including that in the information I'll be sending you.
Chris
p.s. I just noticed we kept one of the envelopes in which he sent a past bogus payment. Presumably his handwriting on the postmarked envelope. More fuel to the fire assuming a law enforcement official takes this situation seriously.
Hi Guys, Day 3 of this mess. I now why other dealers have not done anyhing about Todd. I have spent 2 full days on this compiling info from other dealers and good friends. I have overloaded the detective with paperwork,and this is just the beginning. I am waiting for emails,mail from Chris and others with checks,and lots of other info to give to the police.
I am making an appointment with the FBI to show them what I have. They told me that this will take at least 1 full day. From what I am told,this will cost me lots of money,time,and loss of sleep to put this guy in prison. I am willing to do this to help all of us.
But..there has to be a better way for us dealers and collectors to make it known who the bad guys are. If ANY of the dealers who are helping me would have done anything about this mess..like postings here,or CCE and other places,this would not be happening. Again..thanks alot to all my friends,and new friends I have on this board, Larry
Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC POB 854 Temecula CA 92593 310-541-7222 office 310-710-2869 cell www.LSRarecoins.com Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26 Baltimore July 14-17 Chicago August 11-15
I have reached the conclusion that the only safe way to accept payments is either via wire transfer or postal money orders. I know the limit is $1000 on money orders but I would rather have a fist full of them that I could confirm before shipping then a worthless check.
<< <i>Not to play devil's advocate here, but why didn't the O.P call his bank to confirm the check indeed did clear? 14k is a lot of money and I would want to be 100% sure that I have the physical money from the check in my account no if's, and's, or but's. Why the O.P didn't do this is beyond me, it seems a bit irresponsible especially for that amount. I do sympathize with him, but I just don't understand why someone with so much experience in dealing coins could fall prey to such a common scam that happens all the time even today. Think Bobby Hughes back when he did it. >>
In his first post the OP said..."went to my bank..Chase,and asked how long before we knew if the check was good..The teller said 2 days.. Just to be safe,I waited 5 days.I heard nothing,and online everything looked good. I sent the coins on the 6th day..." It looks to me like the OP did that. He just relied on the word of a teller that didn't know what he/she was talking about. Therefore how would one know that anyone they talked to at a bank knows what they are talking about? This is exactly why I would put any large check in for collection and not send the merchandise until after the funds were deposited in my account. They cannot reverse a deposit made from a check that was put in for collection. >>
I still wouldn't have taken some bank teller's word especially for that amount. That's a lot of money to anyone, and I would want to be 100% sure it's cleared by checking with my bank's customer support line first before dispatching any product. Sad that this happened to such a good dealer like Larry, but if we don't learn to be stricter when taking checks, this will happen again.
I am a trusting person. If I told a board member that you would have to wait 10 days or more for your check to clear ? I am sure that would not go over very well.
I made a very big mistake,and it is my fault.It won't happen again..
But again,if just one dealer had posted here about this guy in the last 6 months,we all would have remembered it. Maybe we need a new forum,called deadbeats"
Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC POB 854 Temecula CA 92593 310-541-7222 office 310-710-2869 cell www.LSRarecoins.com Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26 Baltimore July 14-17 Chicago August 11-15
"But again,if just one dealer had posted here about this guy in the last 6 months,we all would have remembered it. Maybe we need a new forum,called deadbeats"
"But..there has to be a better way for us dealers and collectors to make it known who the bad guys are. If ANY of the dealers who are helping me would have done anything about this mess..like postings here,or CCE and other places,this would not be happening."
Larry, have you subscribed to the website I mentioned in this thread?
Also, you need to impress upon all of the LEO agencies that there is pattern with this douchebag. The FEDs love to hear the term RICO. There are definitely indications of a conspiracy, by the information shared here so far.
It wasn't a statement...just being a ****.. I don't piss people off,nor does steve.
How about the other 17 dealers that he burned ? I am just getting started.The numbers could be at 50 before I get done. The detective who is working the case told me things about him that I can't say here,but he has been doing this to anyone who has a coin website since 2004.
The reason steve and I got this,as we trusted him.
We are both honest people,and expect others to be the same.
Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC POB 854 Temecula CA 92593 310-541-7222 office 310-710-2869 cell www.LSRarecoins.com Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26 Baltimore July 14-17 Chicago August 11-15
I will be meeting with the feds next week..as soon as I have all the info that is being sent to me by the good people on this board. On the phone,they guessed 20 years from what they have heard....the list of things this guy has done is a yard long.
Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC POB 854 Temecula CA 92593 310-541-7222 office 310-710-2869 cell www.LSRarecoins.com Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26 Baltimore July 14-17 Chicago August 11-15
Looks like he stole certified coins so maybe they will show up again.
$14k is alot and he either had to have a postal carrier deliver to his house, or pick it up in person at the branch. Either way I don't think he'll be staying in that area much longer. I would guess he would have to leave town immediately.
Arkansas Yellow Pages by theUSAexplorer.com182 Club Drive Arkadelphia, AR 71923. Phone : (870) 246-6642 ...... Tipton Auto Sales 11103 Highway 135 N Paragould, AR 72450. Phone : (870) 586-0310 ... The UPS Store 361 Southwest Dr Jonesboro, AR 72401. Phone : (870) 910-0481 ... www.theusaexplorer.com/Arkansas/T-5.html - Cached
You might think that the owner of this UPS store got two forms of ID when they opened this account and UPS --in general--would be interested in knowing that they are facilitating this type of behaviour with their mail drops.
Larry, I did a little legwork on the addresses that NENum. posted and they are all "Pak Mail" offices. I would suspect that the address in Jonesboro, Ar is one also. The 901-483-8077 is a Memphis number and probably his cell. Maybe he travels to Jonesboro; it's only 75 miles from Memphis. Send me a list of the coins and I will distribute it to the local coin shops. You can email me jeb101546@aol.com. My cell # is 901-212-7661. Call me if I can help! Jim Bush
<< <i>I will be meeting with the feds next week..as soon as I have all the info that is being sent to me by the good people on this board. On the phone,they guessed 20 years from what they have heard....the list of things this guy has done is a yard long. >>
PQpeace- You will do the bulk of the work and in the end he will probably get a little probation, community service and be ordered to pay restitution which he will never pay with a good check. He will get a free court appointed lawyer, you will buy airline tickets, spend days on this. His lawyer will pull some BS after you arrive to postpone to another day just to make you fly again.
If you could get back any coins now you would come out way ahead. I am sure they are hidden or long gone by now. You seem like a great guy and expect everyone to do right like you do. There are a lot of crappy people in this world.
Years ago when i had a Texaco Franchise i had a few people that would file affy's saying they did not write the 50 checks over a 6 month period to me and my bank would yank the money out and return it.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Comments
Here are the names he's used on us:
David Young
David Todd
David's Coins
Deltaland Metals
David Rollins (most recent)
A.V. Productions (most recent)
Here are the various addresses:
1204 Houston Levee Rd.
Suite 105 - 101
Cordova, TN 38018
P.O. Box 163
Marked Tree, AR 72365
331 Riverside
Lepanto, AR 72354
7605 Hwy. 70
Unit 107-122
Bartlett, TN 38133
1605 N Germantown Pkwy.
Suite 111-185
Cordova, TN 38016 (most recent)
I have a whole slew of email addresses, too. Larry, should you want it, I'm happy to provide any documentation to you, including the bogus checks. Just let me know.
Chris
<< <i>Tis true... Bank of America is one of very few.... only one I can recall right now.... that does not do merchant check verification for people.
LAME! >>
Sounds like a very good reason not to open account with B of A.
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
<< <i>
<< <i>Tis true... Bank of America is one of very few.... only one I can recall right now.... that does not do merchant check verification for people.
LAME! >>
Sounds like a very good reason not to open account with B of A. >>
If that's a good reason not to open an account, then good luck opening an account anywhere since most major banks will no longer verify checks.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I might be stupid for asking but does any form of small business insurance help with this? I had a friend who was embezzled from and after it was varifyied by an accountant it was covered 75%. I would think that that would be harder to prevent than bad checks which would make it harder to insure >>
I'm don't know of any insurance coverage that covers bad checks.
There is insurance coverage available for Employee Dishonesty, which may be the type of coverage your friend has.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just got this email :
from :
Archie Arnold-Wynen archiearnold1@gmail.com
Obvious whoever wrote this is a board member..
I stole your coins and I am damn proud of it, Larry. You will NOT be getting your money and I will gladly crack out each and every one of these coins and sell them raw at my next show. Suckers like you are born every day and you you just fold up shop, good for the rest of us. You're a wanna-be!
-Todd >>
Unbelievable
I doubt it is the same guy, but what kind of sick person would find humor in this situation.
Larry I am sorry to hear about this, >>
Now matter how good your reputation is, there is always SOMEONE out there who thinks that you wronged them.
<< <i>He used the name Todd Davis with us
Name: Todd Davis Account: todddavis (View Profile)
Email: todd@bigmanmotors.com Phone: 901-483-8077
Ship To:
Todd Davis
361 Southwest Drive, #135
Jonesboro AR, 72401
United States >>
That address is a UPS store, so it's a private PO box. With a subpeona, you could get the owner's info. Did you talk with the local PD there?
<< <i>
<< <i>He used the name Todd Davis with us
Name: Todd Davis Account: todddavis (View Profile)
Email: todd@bigmanmotors.com Phone: 901-483-8077
Ship To:
Todd Davis
361 Southwest Drive, #135
Jonesboro AR, 72401
United States >>
That address is a UPS store, so it's a private PO box. With a subpeona, you could get the owner's info. Did you talk with the local PD there? >>
Most of his addresses, as well the addresses of all the other run-of-the-mill crooks who have tried to rip us off, are UPS store kind of places. The problem we've always encountered in pursuing such cases is that the local PD in the locations of the crooks won't talk to us. They insist we contact our local PD. And our local PD has never seemed very interested in pursuing someone halfway across the country who is writing bogus checks. Very frustrating to see clowns like this guy get away with this for SO LONG.
Best of luck nabbing the perp.
<< <i>The problem we've always encountered in pursuing such cases is that the local PD in the locations of the crooks won't talk to us. They insist we contact our local PD. And our local PD has never seemed very interested in pursuing someone halfway across the country who is writing bogus checks. >>
Yep, I'm very familar with this runaround. And, in my case, the PD's involved were in the same damned state.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
That doesn't jive with what I have heard about scam victims who have unknowingly cashed bogus cashier's checks and later been on the hook for the money. >>
Maybe you're thinking of is victims that deposited bogus checks into their account and later were on the hook for it.
(not ones that cashed the bogus checks because the issuing bank can tell they're bogus and won't cash them)
I think if you take a cashiers check to it's bank and cash it that's a done deal and it might be the same with a personal check. Cash it at it's bank, don't deposit it at yours. Isn't that the case?
<< <i>
<< <i>
That doesn't jive with what I have heard about scam victims who have unknowingly cashed bogus cashier's checks and later been on the hook for the money. >>
Maybe you're thinking of is victims that deposited bogus checks into their account and later were on the hook for it.
(not ones that cashed the bogus checks because the issuing bank can tell they're bogus and won't cash them)
I think if you take a cashiers check to it's bank and cash it that's a done deal and it might be the same with a personal check. Cash it at it's bank, don't deposit it at yours. Isn't that the case? >>
I certainly might be mistaken. But I thought that if you cash a check which turns out to be bad, you are on the hook for the amount, even if you did so innocently.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
That doesn't jive with what I have heard about scam victims who have unknowingly cashed bogus cashier's checks and later been on the hook for the money. >>
Maybe you're thinking of is victims that deposited bogus checks into their account and later were on the hook for it.
(not ones that cashed the bogus checks because the issuing bank can tell they're bogus and won't cash them)
I think if you take a cashiers check to it's bank and cash it that's a done deal and it might be the same with a personal check. Cash it at it's bank, don't deposit it at yours. Isn't that the case? >>
I certainly might be mistaken. But I thought that if you cash a check which turns out to be bad, you are on the hook for the amount, even if you did so innocently. >>
The reason for cashing it at the checkwriter's bank is that they should be able to verify if he has sufficient funds to cover it, which they should do for large amounts.
you get cash, put in pocket and leave - they could have a difficult time seeing you again or no where you are from
I worked at a place a few years ago and on payday, many employess went to the local branch of the employers bank that the checks were drawn on. The bank had a couple tellers in a supermarket that was open from 9 to 5. Anyway an extra 30 checks were cashed one day - counterfeit checks with correct format and bogus names - bogus ids were used with the group and they cleared $50K that day - the bank ended up eating the loss - I am not sure if they ever found any of the perps
<< <i>It's amazing in today's electronic age that a check would take that long to clear. I would think that interbank communication would have progressed to the point that check varification would be almost instantanious. How hard is it to enter a routing number and account number into a computer and find out the balance of that account. Heck, you can check the balance of your account from almost any ATM, incuding ATM's that are not of your bank. I blame the banks for this fiasco. >>
Just a guess, but perhaps he boosted the balance of the accaunt he bought the coins with with bad checks drawn on other, out-of-state accounts. Might have taken time for those to bounce.
TD
<< <i>Sorry about this situation Larry. It amazes me also that in this electronic age, a check doesn't clear in 2-3 business days. I've held checks for 10 days that still had not "officially" cleared.
Best of luck nabbing the perp. >>
That's just it, It's the electronic age... Personal checks are like dinosaurs now, except among the coin community it seems.
Most businesses, if not all businesses today do not except personal checks, and I'm beginning to see why.
Sounds like this guy has been doing this for a while and knows what he's doing.
I wish you the best of luck
<< <i>The reason for cashing it at the checkwriter's bank is you do not need an account with them - just a picture id with your name on it.
you get cash, put in pocket and leave - they could have a difficult time seeing you again or no where you are from
I worked at a place a few years ago and on payday, many employess went to the local branch of the employers bank that the checks were drawn on. The bank had a couple tellers in a supermarket that was open from 9 to 5. Anyway an extra 30 checks were cashed one day - counterfeit checks with correct format and bogus names - bogus ids were used with the group and they cleared $50K that day - the bank ended up eating the loss - I am not sure if they ever found any of the perps >>
In all cases they will write your driver's license number on the check and sometimes require your fingerprint. In the case of a counterfeit or forged check I do believe they cannot take the money back from you unless they have evidence you were involved in the fraud.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>It's amazing in today's electronic age that a check would take that long to clear. I would think that interbank communication would have progressed to the point that check varification would be almost instantanious. How hard is it to enter a routing number and account number into a computer and find out the balance of that account. Heck, you can check the balance of your account from almost any ATM, incuding ATM's that are not of your bank. I blame the banks for this fiasco. >>
Just a guess, but perhaps he boosted the balance of the accaunt he bought the coins with with bad checks drawn on other, out-of-state accounts. Might have taken time for those to bounce.
TD >>
Generally the bank will not give you immediate use of such funds. You have to wait until they clear first.
Quite a few posts on advice to prevent this type of thing from happening again, but no reimbursements can be offered. Before you ship any item especially the high end stuff use Google Earth to glass the location. At least you will know if you’re shipping to a mailbox store, gas station or whatever. If you ask your buyer about the address and they lie about the type of business you will know something stinks before the package leaves.
Good luck in nailing this creep. Hopefully your buddy Steve (rkfish) will follow up his post with a stealth hunting trip.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I just got this email :
from :
Archie Arnold-Wynen archiearnold1@gmail.com
Obvious whoever wrote this is a board member..
I stole your coins and I am damn proud of it, Larry. You will NOT be getting your money and I will gladly crack out each and every one of these coins and sell them raw at my next show. Suckers like you are born every day and you you just fold up shop, good for the rest of us. You're a wanna-be!
-Todd >>
Unbelievable
I doubt it is the same guy, but what kind of sick person would find humor in this situation.
Larry I am sorry to hear about this, >>
Now matter how good your reputation is, there is always SOMEONE out there who thinks that you wronged them. >>
The domain name bigmanmotors was opened on 8/5/2010.
There will be ways to catch this fella but it has to occur during the transaction, not after, so Larry's post is somewhat enlightening but what do you do?
I expect keeping a wary eye on all customers would be a start since whats to prevent multiple successful small purchases to build trust followed by the sting?
As for me, I would not accept a check over $1,000 but would insist on a bank wire transfer.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Not to play devil's advocate here, but why didn't the O.P call his bank to confirm the check indeed did clear? 14k is a lot of money and I would want to be 100% sure that I have the physical money from the check in my account no if's, and's, or but's. Why the O.P didn't do this is beyond me, it seems a bit irresponsible especially for that amount. I do sympathize with him, but I just don't understand why someone with so much experience in dealing coins could fall prey to such a common scam that happens all the time even today. Think Bobby Hughes back when he did it. >>
In his first post the OP said..."went to my bank..Chase,and asked how long before we knew if the check was good..The teller said 2 days..
Just to be safe,I waited 5 days.I heard nothing,and online everything looked good.
I sent the coins on the 6th day..."
It looks to me like the OP did that. He just relied on the word of a teller that didn't know what he/she was talking about. Therefore how would one know that anyone they talked to at a bank knows what they are talking about?
This is exactly why I would put any large check in for collection and not send the merchandise until after the funds were deposited in my account. They cannot reverse a deposit made from a check that was put in for collection.
Chris
p.s. I just noticed we kept one of the envelopes in which he sent a past bogus payment. Presumably his handwriting on the postmarked envelope. More fuel to the fire assuming a law enforcement official takes this situation seriously.
<< <i>Perhaps PCGS could be of some help since this happened on their website? May be worth a try asking. >>
It was not a BST transaction, it was through the OP's site.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Day 3 of this mess.
I now why other dealers have not done anyhing about Todd.
I have spent 2 full days on this compiling info from other dealers and good friends.
I have overloaded the detective with paperwork,and this is just the beginning.
I am waiting for emails,mail from Chris and others with checks,and lots of other info to give to the police.
I am making an appointment with the FBI to show them what I have.
They told me that this will take at least 1 full day.
From what I am told,this will cost me lots of money,time,and loss of sleep to put this guy in prison.
I am willing to do this to help all of us.
But..there has to be a better way for us dealers and collectors to make it known who the bad guys are.
If ANY of the dealers who are helping me would have done anything about this mess..like postings here,or CCE and other places,this would not be happening.
Again..thanks alot to all my friends,and new friends I have on this board,
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
<< <i>
<< <i>Not to play devil's advocate here, but why didn't the O.P call his bank to confirm the check indeed did clear? 14k is a lot of money and I would want to be 100% sure that I have the physical money from the check in my account no if's, and's, or but's. Why the O.P didn't do this is beyond me, it seems a bit irresponsible especially for that amount. I do sympathize with him, but I just don't understand why someone with so much experience in dealing coins could fall prey to such a common scam that happens all the time even today. Think Bobby Hughes back when he did it. >>
In his first post the OP said..."went to my bank..Chase,and asked how long before we knew if the check was good..The teller said 2 days..
Just to be safe,I waited 5 days.I heard nothing,and online everything looked good.
I sent the coins on the 6th day..."
It looks to me like the OP did that. He just relied on the word of a teller that didn't know what he/she was talking about. Therefore how would one know that anyone they talked to at a bank knows what they are talking about?
This is exactly why I would put any large check in for collection and not send the merchandise until after the funds were deposited in my account. They cannot reverse a deposit made from a check that was put in for collection. >>
I still wouldn't have taken some bank teller's word especially for that amount. That's a lot of money to anyone, and I would want to be 100% sure it's cleared by checking with my bank's customer support line first before dispatching any product. Sad that this happened to such a good dealer like Larry, but if we don't learn to be stricter when taking checks, this will happen again.
If I told a board member that you would have to wait 10 days or more for your check to clear ? I am sure that would not go over very well.
I made a very big mistake,and it is my fault.It won't happen again..
But again,if just one dealer had posted here about this guy in the last 6 months,we all would have remembered it.
Maybe we need a new forum,called deadbeats"
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
Again, sorry you are going through this and I wish you the best and hope the crook gets what is coming to him!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Your past partner (Steve)... now you... makes you wonder...
Good luck.
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
<< <i>Peace man..don't be an ass... >>
Didn't seem like he was being a "you know what" to me. He was just making a statement.
Maybe we need a new forum,called deadbeats"
"But..there has to be a better way for us dealers and collectors to make it known who the bad guys are.
If ANY of the dealers who are helping me would have done anything about this mess..like postings here,or CCE and other places,this would not be happening."
Larry, have you subscribed to the website I mentioned in this thread?
Also, you need to impress upon all of the LEO agencies that there is pattern with this douchebag. The FEDs love to hear the term RICO. There are definitely indications of a conspiracy, by the information shared here so far.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I don't piss people off,nor does steve.
How about the other 17 dealers that he burned ?
I am just getting started.The numbers could be at 50 before I get done.
The detective who is working the case told me things about him that I can't say here,but he has been doing this to anyone who has a coin website since 2004.
The reason steve and I got this,as we trusted him.
We are both honest people,and expect others to be the same.
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
On the phone,they guessed 20 years from what they have heard....the list of things this guy has done is a yard long.
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
Chris and Mark have previously posted about this guy:
PCGS Boards Link
NGC Boards Link
There were a number of messages on CCE around this time as well. It seems like he went dormant for awhile and is now back at it.
WH
$14k is alot and he either had to have a postal carrier deliver to his house, or pick it up in person at the branch. Either way I don't think he'll be staying in that area much longer. I would guess he would have to leave town immediately.
www.theusaexplorer.com/Arkansas/T-5.html - Cached
You might think that the owner of this UPS store got two forms of ID when they opened this account and UPS --in general--would be interested in knowing that they are facilitating this type of behaviour with their mail drops.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Tis true... Bank of America is one of very few.... only one I can recall right now.... that does not do merchant check verification for people.
LAME! >>
Sounds like a very good reason not to open account with B of A. >>
If that's a good reason not to open an account, then good luck opening an account anywhere since most major banks will no longer verify checks.
Russ, NCNE >>
I havent had any problems verifying checks at all. I usually verify all we recieve.
<< <i>I will be meeting with the feds next week..as soon as I have all the info that is being sent to me by the good people on this board.
On the phone,they guessed 20 years from what they have heard....the list of things this guy has done is a yard long. >>
PQpeace- You will do the bulk of the work and in the end he will probably get a little probation, community service and be ordered to pay restitution which he will never pay with a good check. He will get a free court appointed lawyer, you will buy airline tickets, spend days on this. His lawyer will pull some BS after you arrive to postpone to another day just to make you fly again.
If you could get back any coins now you would come out way ahead. I am sure they are hidden or long gone by now. You seem like a great guy and expect everyone to do right like you do. There are a lot of crappy people in this world.
Years ago when i had a Texaco Franchise i had a few people that would file affy's saying they did not write the 50 checks over a 6 month period to me and my bank would yank the money out and return it.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"