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Important announcement: Guy writing bad checks IN JAIL 3/9/2011 !!!

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Comments

  • PQpeacePQpeace Posts: 4,799 ✭✭✭
    I have been up all night thinking about this.

    I hope I can fall asleep sometime today..
    I have lots of work to do...

    Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC
    POB 854
    Temecula CA 92593
    310-541-7222 office
    310-710-2869 cell
    www.LSRarecoins.com
    Larry@LSRarecoins.com

    PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
    Baltimore July 14-17
    Chicago August 11-15
  • savoyspecialsavoyspecial Posts: 7,311 ✭✭✭✭
    possible Facebook Link

    www.brunkauctions.com

  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have been up all night thinking about what I want to do to this guy...it isn't pretty.

    >>

    That comment is worthless without images/pictures" image

  • Larry,

    I am so sorry to hear this.

    Thank you for posting it. At the very least it may save someone else from having to go trough the horror of dealing with such a scumbag.


    Larry
    Dabigkahuna
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still cant believe this situation.....
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>possible Facebook Link >>

    I don't think that's the same person.
  • savoyspecialsavoyspecial Posts: 7,311 ✭✭✭✭
    you may be right Mark


    sorry....

    www.brunkauctions.com

  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>you may be right Mark


    sorry.... >>

    Don't be sorry.image You're trying to help.
  • PQpeacePQpeace Posts: 4,799 ✭✭✭
    I want to thank everyone for their great detective work.I really appreciate it.
    I love coins,and this hobby.
    This type of thing can take some of the fun away real quick.
    Larry
    Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC
    POB 854
    Temecula CA 92593
    310-541-7222 office
    310-710-2869 cell
    www.LSRarecoins.com
    Larry@LSRarecoins.com

    PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
    Baltimore July 14-17
    Chicago August 11-15
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,395 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>possible Facebook Link >>

    I don't think that's the same person. >>



    And that is a link to MySpace not Facebook.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • I might be stupid for asking but does any form of small business insurance help with this? I had a friend who was embezzled from and after it was varifyied by an accountant it was covered 75%. I would think that that would be harder to prevent than bad checks which would make it harder to insure
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If this happens that you get a big check from an unknown don't ask your bank squat.

    Call the issuing bank and ask for bookkeeping/accounting. Tell them that so and so
    has presented you a check in the amount of $xxx.xx. As them if it will clear. That's
    the safest way to deal with unknown checks. Not fail safe but certainly better than
    asking your bank. This I've used for that past 40 years and have always had book-
    keeping give an accurate response. Many times you can tell by the bookkeepers voice
    how good the customer is! "YES SIR that will clear", etc.
    Of course I got the "not now, sir" answer too. Don't ask squat from a front end banker,
    either yours or theirs.
    Good luck Larry, hope it works out for you and you get the coins back or the money.


    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,395 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why is it obvious that the guy who sent the email is a board member? You don't need to be logged in to get Larry's email addy from his sigline, UNLESS it was sent to a different email addy.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,395 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Tis true... Bank of America is one of very few.... only one I can recall right now.... that does not do merchant check verification for people.

    LAME! >>



    Will they verify it if a person from your bank calls them?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Isn't a wire transfer much safer than a check?

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Isn't a wire transfer much safer than a check? >>

    I have heard that wire transfers can be reversed. And it would be extremely difficult to run a business, while insisting upon wire transfers from new customers.
  • PQpeacePQpeace Posts: 4,799 ✭✭✭
    Why is it obvious that the guy who sent the email is a board member? You don't need to be logged in to get Larry's email addy from his sigline, UNLESS it was sent to a different email addy.

    -------------------------
    I got the email within 10 minutes of my post.How would someone know I posted this unless they read it here ?
    Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC
    POB 854
    Temecula CA 92593
    310-541-7222 office
    310-710-2869 cell
    www.LSRarecoins.com
    Larry@LSRarecoins.com

    PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
    Baltimore July 14-17
    Chicago August 11-15
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Why is it obvious that the guy who sent the email is a board member? You don't need to be logged in to get Larry's email addy from his sigline, UNLESS it was sent to a different email addy.

    -------------------------
    I got the email within 10 minutes of my post.How would someone know I posted this unless they read it here ? >>

    So the person might be a lurker, as opposed to a board member. Still, sadly, I suspect that you are correct.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,691 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have heard that wire transfers can be reversed. And it would be extremely difficult to run a business, while insisting upon wire transfers from new customers. >>



    Can't be reversed if you immediately transfer the funds from your bank. Anyone with 14k in their checking account can easily do the wire transfer. BOA allows it to be done on-line and at a small fee. I would insist on a wire transfer for any large amount like 14k. If they can't take the time to do the wire transfer on an amount like this, It makes their purchase suspect to me.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,379 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear the bad news Larry.

    Larry's definitely one of the 'good guys' in our business and it's just a shame that this has to happen to him.

    I hope you can track him down.

    Regarding the wire transfers....

    I used to look after wire transfers when I worked in the Diamond Industry.

    There wasn't any risk at all as long as you followed up on everything.

    You have their bank info and most importantly, you can talk directly to the person at the bank who initiated the wire transfer.

    It was the only way we took payments for diamonds Internationally and within Canada and the US over $5,000.

    We never had a problem in the 5 years I worked there.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I submitted my handwriting to the Secret Service years ago. I'm easy to find, and so was the guy who stole my identity and rang up about the same amount of debt on my books that the OP has suffered through "fraud and theft" in his.

    It sucks to be victimized and those who do it and are reading this : "your days are numbered, too".
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,009 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> Tell them that so and so has presented you a check in the amount of $xxx.xx. As them if it will clear. >>




    That's the rub in this case, Bank of America has a policy to NOT verify anything for a check. Nada, zip, zilch.


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,009 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Tis true... Bank of America is one of very few.... only one I can recall right now.... that does not do merchant check verification for people.

    LAME! >>



    Will they verify it if a person from your bank calls them? >>




    Good Question. I'm not sure.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> Tell them that so and so has presented you a check in the amount of $xxx.xx. As them if it will clear. >>




    That's the rub in this case, Bank of America has a policy to NOT verify anything for a check. Nada, zip, zilch. >>



    Correct, the OP tried this route. He got no response which really sucks......
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    Ugh, This sucks. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, Larry. You seem like a great guy. image


    Good luck nabbing this SOB.




    -Paul
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,395 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Why is it obvious that the guy who sent the email is a board member? You don't need to be logged in to get Larry's email addy from his sigline, UNLESS it was sent to a different email addy.

    -------------------------
    I got the email within 10 minutes of my post.How would someone know I posted this unless they read it here ? >>



    But you don't have to be a member to read stuff here. He might be a lurker, but chances are if his posting IP could be traced, he is smart enough to not be registered here. i know any number of folks who peruse this board, but aren't members.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭
    The perp will hopefully learn that when you rip someone off for a large sum, they don't simply chalk it up to experience. There are a litany of state and federal felonies charges that may issue.

    Here's hoping he can be tracked down and brought to justice!!!
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,691 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> Tell them that so and so has presented you a check in the amount of $xxx.xx. As them if it will clear. >>




    That's the rub in this case, Bank of America has a policy to NOT verify anything for a check. Nada, zip, zilch. >>


    But if you walk into BOA and cash the check drawn on one of their accounts you can find out very quickly if it is a bad check. They will do everything in their power to verify it before they hand you the cash. Once they hand you the cash any problems with the check become BOA's problems.

    Lesson learned here - Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check; do not deposit it into your bank where you are on the hook for its validity.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 23,281 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know you, Larry but I hope that you can nail the SOBs - both of them. I know what it's like to be stolen from, and also to be sent a threatening email from an unknown jerk. Good Luck.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • "...Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check..."

    image
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i> Tell them that so and so has presented you a check in the amount of $xxx.xx. As them if it will clear. >>




    That's the rub in this case, Bank of America has a policy to NOT verify anything for a check. Nada, zip, zilch. >>


    But if you walk into BOA and cash the check drawn on one of their accounts you can find out very quickly if it is a bad check. They will do everything in their power to verify it before they hand you the cash. Once they hand you the cash any problems with the check become BOA's problems.

    Lesson learned here - Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check; do not deposit it into your bank where you are on the hook for its validity. >>



    I think that was attempted here and B of A would not give any info. Not sure if it was attempted to be cashed.
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>"...Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check..."

    image >>

    If the check turned out to be bad, I believe that the bank could still try to get its money back from the person who cashed it.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,691 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>"...Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check..."

    image >>

    If the check turned out to be bad, I believe that the bank could still try to get its money back from the person who cashed it. >>


    They could try, but they would only be successful if they could prove fraud on the part of the person who cashed it. They'd have better luck trying to get their money back from the bank employee who cashed it without verifying it to be a valid check.

    A check is nothing more than an instrument for the account holder to tell his bank to give a third party a set amount of money from the cash account. It's the bank's responsibility to make sure the instrument is valid. I have seen cases where they would even contact the the account holder before honoring the check.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Tis true... Bank of America is one of very few.... only one I can recall right now.... that does not do merchant check verification for people. >>



    BoFA isn't the only one that will no longer do merchant verification. Most large banks no longer do it. Some that still do it require that you call a 900 number, (read: they charge for it).



    << <i>Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check >>



    A cashier's check can be stopped by the issuing bank.

    Russ, NCNE

  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>"...Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check..."

    image >>

    If the check turned out to be bad, I believe that the bank could still try to get its money back from the person who cashed it. >>


    They could try, but they would only be successful if they could prove fraud on the part of the person who cashed it. They'd have better luck trying to get their money back from the bank employee who cashed it without verifying it to be a valid check. >>

    That doesn't jive with what I have heard about scam victims who have unknowingly cashed bogus cashier's checks and later been on the hook for the money.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,691 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Tis true... Bank of America is one of very few.... only one I can recall right now.... that does not do merchant check verification for people. >>



    BoFA isn't the only one that will no longer do merchant verification. Most large banks no longer do it. Some that still do it require that you call a 900 number, (read: they charge for it).



    << <i>Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check >>



    A cashier's check can be stopped by the issuing bank.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    I can only be stopped up until the time it is cashed. Once converted to cash the issuing bank has no control. The only remaining recourse for the issuing bank is a fraud investigation and even with that they can only proceed with prosecution of a guilty party.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,691 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>"...Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check..."

    image >>

    If the check turned out to be bad, I believe that the bank could still try to get its money back from the person who cashed it. >>


    They could try, but they would only be successful if they could prove fraud on the part of the person who cashed it. They'd have better luck trying to get their money back from the bank employee who cashed it without verifying it to be a valid check. >>

    That doesn't jive with what I have heard about scam victims who have unknowingly cashed bogus cashier's checks and later been on the hook for the money. >>


    Once a bank converts an instrument to cash the bank itself is on the hook for any "bad" money. Their only legal recourse is to recover their loss from any involved party that is guilty of fraud.

    As a side note: Personal checks can still be reversed months after they have "cleared."

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • This content has been removed.
  • bestclser1bestclser1 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    Lary,It hurts me to hear about scumbags like this,and i would agree to let the Police,Postal Authorities,and FBI,(Across state lines?)handle it now.If you dont feel good about a deal,trust your gut.
    Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!
  • PonyExpress8PonyExpress8 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭
    Larry,

    I hope you are able to recover your funds or coins. I also want to thank you for bringing this out so we can all be aware of this thief.

    << Tell them that so and so has presented you a check in the amount of $xxx.xx. As them if it will clear. >>




    That's the rub in this case, Bank of America has a policy to NOT verify anything for a check. Nada, zip, zilch. >>


    But if you walk into BOA and cash the check drawn on one of their accounts you can find out very quickly if it is a bad check. They will do everything in their power to verify it before they hand you the cash. Once they hand you the cash any problems with the check become BOA's problems.

    Lesson learned here - Cash the check at the bank it is drawn on or have it converted to a cashier's check; do not deposit it into your bank where you are on the hook for its validity.


    Unfortunately Bank of America is not the only bank that has instituted this sort of policy. Nearly all large banks have the same practice. Community and regional banks tend to be a lot more balanced and sometimes more helpful, although not always.

    If the check is made payable to an individual then cashing the check or a Cashier's Check is feasible. If the check is made payable to a business then your only option is a Cashier's Check. But before trying that you need to have your Bank do an endorsement guarantee and only then can you obtain a cashier's check to replace the original check.

    It didn't used to be this way, but after 9/11 when laws were passed to fight terrorism and privacy pretty much disappeared, a few months later under financial industry pressure, the Bank Secrecy Act was passed by the same Congress. Under the sham of protecting client privacy, which no longer existed, many banks took conservative and convenient interpretations of the Bank Secrecy Act and now you have these types of responses in handling day to day issues.

    Even more infuriating is how check hold policy and law is presently. A few years back a new system of clearing checks called Check 21 came into existence. Under this law, checks are no longer physically transported but instead an electronic image is created and this is what passes through the banking system, in the process of clearing checks. All banks use this today, and checks clear in a matter of 48 hours today. Yet the banking system uses another Federal Reserve Regulation to cover their ass, by placing holds well beyond the time frame a check actually clears. Banks also abuse this to create float for themselves, and as mentioned previously to cover their butts in case a check get's misplaced and not handled properly internally. Thus a check comes back several days after it should insufficient funds!!!

    The lessons from this are to make very sure a check has cleared before you ship goods to anyone unknown to you. If you have doubts about a larger check and have the ability to, take the check to the bank it is drawn upon, cash it or get a cashier's check in its place, if possible.

    Whoever sent that email is as sick as the thief, but it could very easily be a lurker and not a member of the boards.

    Best wishes for a happy outcome Larry. You are one of the good guys.
    The End of the Line in the West.

    Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I just got this email :
    from :
    Archie Arnold-Wynen archiearnold1@gmail.com
    Obvious whoever wrote this is a board member..


    I stole your coins and I am damn proud of it, Larry. You will NOT be getting your money and I will gladly crack out each and every one of these coins and sell them raw at my next show. Suckers like you are born every day and you you just fold up shop, good for the rest of us. You're a wanna-be!


    -Todd >>




    Unbelievable

    I doubt it is the same guy, but what kind of sick person would find humor in this situation.

    Larry I am sorry to hear about this,
  • He used the name Todd Davis with us

    Name: Todd Davis Account: todddavis (View Profile)
    Email: todd@bigmanmotors.com Phone: 901-483-8077
    Ship To:
    Todd Davis
    361 Southwest Drive, #135
    Jonesboro AR, 72401
    United States
  • Dennis88Dennis88 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
    This is a company that is registered at the same address as is on the check:

    Link

    I would suggest to give them a call and ask if they ever heard of A.V. Productions or of the guy whose name is mentioned a number of times in this thread. It's a long shot, but they might be able to help in one way or the other.

    Larry, while we have only met a few short minutes you have always appeared to be a genuine guy and I feel sorry that this has happened to you. Hopefully it all works out, eventually.

    Dennis

    Dennis
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seems to be consistent to "Jonesboro, AZ".
    Gives the whole place a black eye.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,467 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I might be stupid for asking but does any form of small business insurance help with this? I had a friend who was embezeled from and after it was varifyied by an accountant it was covered 75%. I would think that that would be harder to prevent than bad checks which would make it harder to insure >>



    I didn't see any responses to the above question, but I was thinking the same thing. It's a shame to hear Larry get $14k stolen like this, and it surprises me that it doesn't happen more frequently (or maybe it does happen more frequently and just doesn't get broadcast to all). I always figured most dealers had insurance to protect them against theft. I also think the bank bears some responsiblity, especially since they basically told you that the check was cleared. Hope this isn't the end of the story with this thief or with the bank.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,786 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Seems to be consistent to "Jonesboro, AZ".
    Gives the whole place a black eye. >>



    Jonesboro, ARkansas, not AriZona.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

  • Just a couple thoughs.

    I used to call the issuing bank and sometimes be able to verify that the check has cleared on their end. It doesn't work so often anymore these days. However, what I have done with large checks is to get the Buyer to call his bank and give them permission to share that info with me, or to do a conference call so that I can verify.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This is a company that is registered at the same address as is on the check:

    Link

    I would suggest to give them a call and ask if they ever heard of A.V. Productions or of the guy whose name is mentioned a number of times in this thread. It's a long shot, but they might be able to help in one way or the other. >>



    Among the services they offer is a mail drop address, similar to UPS stores. The dirtbag set up an address there.

    Russ, NCNE
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I "NEVER" take checks. I hope the scum bag, low life gets what's coming to him.
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • 100 image

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