What do you think of this "1794 Starred Reverse Large Cent"?

shasta7

What are your thoughts of this coin I just purchased? Notice it has stars on the rev around the edges...
Any input is appreciated... :-) Personal Thanks to "Lee" for helping me get the pictures up for the people to see...

Here is picture of OBV & REV side by side...



shasta7

coinnut

Here is your coin.

shasta7

Thanks for the help coinnut... :-)

savoyspecial

Starred Reverse......Requires Authentication

braddick

Looks like a reproduction that has been artificially aged.

19Lyds

At the very minimum, the coin needs to go through the authentication process with PCGS.

shasta7

<< <i>Looks like a reproduction that has been artificially aged. >>



Braddick...

have you heard or saw that these coins have been counterfeited or reproduced?
Also, do you have any links, more info, or know any company that reproduced these?
Just trying to get all the info I can to learn about this variety... Thanks

braddick

Yes, I have seen these in gem mint red reproduction state.

Not contemporary, but modern.

okracer

Did you purchase it as a Starred Reverse cent?.....There are only about 57 known and I recall the first 51 were featured in a book on these by a guy named Pete Smith.

Where to find the book, I don't know.......

Do you mind saying what you gave for it?

I have a low grade one, and I think it was coin #40 or something in that book.

UTTM07

Fortunately the GMM replica has different edge lettering than the original. I've been carrying a replica in my pocket this summer.

Reproduction reads: ONE HUNDRED FOR A DOLLAR * RL * GMM *

Spacing of words on edge will be different for original.

Also GMM piece has a double denticle at 8 o'clock on obverse and COPY stamp is is punched in wreat and field on reverse.

shasta7

Thanks for all the input people... :-)

Here are a few replies to those whom posted...

Braddick... do you know where they are reproduced?

Lee... I agree with you the only true way to know for sure it to get it authenticated to make sure it is real...

okracer... No as far as purchasing it as a starred rev... it was from a collection whose dad passed away & asked
me to buy the coins... I was told by one of my local dealers that to him it was a good one but to be sure to send it in.
He showed me a book by Sheldon & another Larger book... he showed me that these "starred rev types" were made
on bad planchets. I will try to find that book by Pete Smith... I gave the seller $25.00 for the coin as I thought it was
a damaged bad looking coin. Thanks for the info

UTTM07... Who is GMM? Do they have a website?
My coin has: ONE HUNDRED FOR A DOLLAR (& right after the R of dollar has what looks to be a leaf.
sorta looks like a spade sideways...

It does NOT have... the RL or GMM or the word Copy stamped on the coin... the Rev is very bad/weak...


& No I am not going to get too excited till I get it either authenticated or find it to be not real...
I checked the edges of the coin to see if I could see other metal colors such as the silver color
that many fakes get made of... could not see any. The person who owned the coin was a collector
from the late mid 60's to the late 80's... more then this regarding the coin I can't say.

shasta7

cmerlo1

XXGS F-15, if authentic, cleaning and corrosion and damage mean nothing.

savoyspecial

>>UTTM07... Who is GMM? Do they have a website?>>



Gallery Mint Museum (the RL stands for Ron Landis)

okracer

You might change the title to include "1794 Starred Reverse Cent", so to attract more comments.

BaseballAbs

Baley

BigMoose

That is a genuine S-48, Starred Reverse Large Cent, damaged but genuine.

njcoincrank

There ya go...BigMoose has spoken.

And that is all I need.

njcc

P.S. Congrats!

Steve27

Are you sure you don't mean SCARED reverse (sorry just kidding).

crypto79

This one has gotten good

MrEureka

That is a genuine S-48, Starred Reverse Large Cent, damaged but genuine.

Without seeing the coin in hand, I would guess the same.

MrEureka

<<it was from a collection whose dad passed away & asked me to buy the coins..... I gave the seller $25.00 for the coin as I thought it was a damaged bad looking coin.>>

Congrats!


Congrats?

rays

I've seen lower grade examples trade for in excess of $10,000.
If this one is a genuine example (and PCGS knows how to authenticate one), if submitted to PCGS, I would gauge the chances of either scenario at 50%:

1. PCGS grades it as Good-6.
2. PCGS slabs its as Genuine.

As long as at least some of the reverse stars are visible, the coin will be desirable.

On a rarity like this, I think the TPG companies will be very lenient with respect to cleaning, corrosion, etc. But if the coin is bent or heavily damaged in some way, less so.

coindeuce

i'd like to buy an S-48 for $25...
Been trying to buy an undamaged AG-3 from a fellow club member for 15 years. He hasn't budged yet.

crazyhounddog

Looks like the real deal to me, by the images that is. Congrats!!

notwilight

I'm in the real camp. Looks like a huge large planchet flaw that would be very had to add artificially afterward. --jerry

renomedphys

<< <i><<it was from a collection whose dad passed away & asked me to buy the coins..... I gave the seller $25.00 for the coin as I thought it was a damaged bad looking coin.>>

Congrats!


Congrats? >>


Uh... YOU SUCK

okracer

If this turns out to be real, you should call Coinworld or some publication for another "discovery" of a Starred Revers Cent.

Would likely get some recognition, and it can help update the census of surviving examples.

Baley

it was from a collection whose dad passed away & asked
me to buy the coins... I was told by one of my local dealers that to him it was a good one but to be sure to send it in.
He showed me a book by Sheldon & another Larger book... he showed me that these "starred rev types" were made
on bad planchets. I will try to find that book by Pete Smith... I gave the seller $25.00 for the coin as I thought it was
a damaged bad looking coin.

Congratulations! Looks not much at all like the GM reproduction posted

So, now that this looks like a real, five-figure coin maybe, Are you going to consider sharing any bit of the fame and fortune from this Discovery with the widow and/or orphans from whom you purchased the piece?

MisterBungle

"...the first 51 were featured in a book on these by a guy named Pete Smith.

Where to find the book, I don't know......."
-----

Pete Smith put out this study of the "Starred Reverse" cent
in 1986. He produced 250 copies, and each was numbered.
Mine is number 129.

Oh, and before I start getting PMs, no, it's not for sale.



~

shasta7

First off, I Thank everyone for their thoughts, info & input... appreciate it very much!! :-)

savoyspecial... Thanks for giving me the name of that company - BigMoose & MrEureka... appreciate your take that it is real. - rays... Thanks & I did count over 25 stars on the coin. - coindeuce... Good Luck with that fellow club member. - crazyhounddog & notwilight... thanks for your post. - renomedphys... does this mean I am a canidate for the "You Suck" award? lol - okracer... I do plan on sending the coin in to PCGS & good idea on the idea of Coin World. - Baley... I had already planned on giving the family 1/2 the money if I learn the coin is real & decide to sell the coin... :-) It would only be right to do that.

again thanks everyone... :-) shasta7

savoyspecial

a classy move on your part to share half with the family! this has been a great thread

please let us know if it makes it into plastic

shasta7

Thanks MisterBungle for that info on the book... I will keep my eye out for one or at least see if anyone I know has one to look over... :-)

savoyspecial... Thanks for the kind comments!! I will for sure let everyone know if it makes it into a slab... & hopefully it does turn out to be a good one!! :-)

shasta7

joecopper

I pulled out the Noyes book and agree w/Bug Moose that it appears to be real.

seanq

<< <i>"...the first 51 were featured in a book on these by a guy named Pete Smith.

Where to find the book, I don't know......."
-----

Pete Smith put out this study of the "Starred Reverse" cent
in 1986. He produced 250 copies, and each was numbered.
Mine is number 129.

Oh, and before I start getting PMs, no, it's not for sale.

~ >>




So is the one pictured in the OP also pictured in the book, or would this be a new example? With that reverse damage I would think it would be easy to identify.


Sean Reynolds

Bochiman

Holey smokies that would be cool!

MisterBungle

"So is the one pictured in the OP also pictured in the book, or would this be a new example? With that reverse damage I would think it would be easy to identify."
-----

This seems to be a new discovery since the publication of Pete's book.

The book doesn't have photos of the coins, but rather drawings of the
obverse and reverse with rim bumps, corrosion, weaknesses, dings, etc.
pointed out in the drawings. I don't see another coin listed with this type
of damage.

~

joecopper

"I gave the seller $25.00 for the coin as I thought it was a damaged bad looking coin. Thanks for the
info"

Might as well ask the big question!
What will you say after it is authenticated?

Bochiman

<< <i>"I gave the seller $25.00 for the coin as I thought it was a damaged bad looking coin. Thanks for the
info"

Might as well ask the big question!
What will you say after it is authenticated? >>




He already answered it, but it was buried in a longer reply.
Here it is (from above):

Baley... I had already planned on giving the family 1/2 the money if I learn the coin is real & decide to sell the coin... :-) It would only be right to do that.""

Walkerguy21D

Neat find, great thread, and yes, a classy and rightful move on your part, to share the proceeds with the original owners!

leothelyon

It wouldn't surprise me if a knowledgeable collector hasn't already made an offer for this coin.


Leo

JRocco

Major congrats on a great discovery piece (assuming this one is not in the known pool).
Very honorable of you to share 1/2 the cherrypick with the family....better than many would do in your shoes.
This is the stuff us collectors daydream about.
I am very happy for you and for the early coppers guys also.

pcgs69

Very cool!

shasta7

Question:

Does anyone have other pictures of starred reverse coins... if so can you please post them so I can compare
to this one in this thread... Thanks in adv...

shasta7

RTS

Does anyone have other pictures of starred reverse coins... if so can you please post them so I can compare
to this one in this thread

Dan Holmes sale lot 79...

braddick

It appears I was wrong with my original assessment.
Nice catch and a very cool coin.

Congratulations on the find of the year!

wilskyy

Very historic coin... Better to get one in a slab though.

shasta7

Thanks for the pictures RTS... :-)

Braddick... appreciate your comment... BUT I will not get too excited just yet... NOT until I have the coin verified as genuine...
I learned long ago not to count on anything... Yes all indications point to it is real. I even looked at other pictures of starred reverses
& the details are more or less the same, even the stars are located at the proper place as the others... the double denticles on obv
to left of the 1 is also there on my coin as is on the others. So I do NOT get too wrapped up in thinking it is worth alot of money till
I see it slabbed as real... I even went looking to see if there were any coins discovered as counterfeits... but couldn't find much.

One person on this thread pointed out that they never would think someone would counterfeit a coin with so much damage or
as being in bad shape... as it would be very hard to do with the cracks on both sides... so I will continue to do more research
& get it sent in to be 100% sure... :-) Again I thank all the peoples comments & help & posts... alot more then I ever thought... hehehe

Also to OKRACER who suggested that I send this to Coin World... someone from Coin World already contacted me & would like
to do a story on the coin... this is if it comes back as good one. I already told the person that it may be a good article to do anyway
if it wasn't ... at least it would make more people aware. Just my opinion...

shasta7

GFourDriver

That coin is in need of a rarities or even ultra rarities submission at PCGS.......... done in two days!

shasta7

Thanks Gfourdriver I'll keep that in mind... :-)

Can anyone tell me what the weight range would need to be of the "starred reverse"? Also, is it different from the
normal 1794 Large Cents?

By the way I did a drop test of the 3 1794 coins I have... all three sounded sililar to one another... (which I know still
doesn't say the one that shows at beginning of this thread is a real one... but had someone ask me to try it... :-)
Again Thanks for the help all...

shasta7

DCW