Has anyone else considered purchasing silverware for PM investment?
tydye
Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
Since my SDB is on the verge of being full. And I don't really want to rent another. I was thinking what about silverware? Probably can be stored in plain view and 99 out of 100 robbers would not even give it a second glance these days. Most sets are an easy 100oz of silver
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<< <i>Since my SDB is on the verge of being full. And I don't really want to rent another. I was thinking what about silverware? Probably can be stored in plain view and 99 out of 100 robbers would not even give it a second glance these days. Most sets are an easy 100oz of silver >>
I would think burglars would grab silverware along with jewelry, guns, cash, etc. Anything portable and easy to fence.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
1. It's sterling, not .999 or 90%. We've had a few threads about the sterling dilemma: It's more pure than 90%, but it tends to sell at a substantial discount to its silver value.
2. It tarnishes. If it's kept in a good box it may not need to be polished but ever few years.
3. Knives. The handles are almost always hollow filled with plaster or resin, the blades are usually steel. Buy them by their weight and you'll get burned.
If you can buy it right and you know what you're getting yourself into, I think it's fine. If you're expecting it to be as liquid as .999 or 90%, you're probably going to be disappointed.
--Severian the Lame
I agree that silverware is harder to sell. My dealer offers 80% for it. But on the flip I can get it for under melt. Plus I can use it. Antimicrobial as well.
<< <i>I highly doubt that today's burglars would recognize silverware as being made of silver these days. >>
That may be true if the burglar is the kid that lives down the street with a drug problem but professional burglars know that silverware is made of silver and is easily disposed of for good money.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'm not sure it's really a valid question because this stuff is very high per piece new and most older flatware is collected and sells for more than it's silver content. In order to get a fair price you'd have to sell it to collectors, if they're only paying 80% then why not coin silver? Really anyone over 40 is going to know about sterling silver flatware so it may not be as safe as you think. If your in the habit of showing your stuff off their also might be more people that know about it than you think too.....hope you don't have kids
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"Midwest Refineries no longer accepts any weighted sterling silver
Some sterling silver items like candlesticks and pedestal style containers and bowls, are weighted with wax, plaster or fillers with steel support rods for strength. Dinner knives from sterling flatware, have stainless steel blades with steel support rods and filler that run through the sterling silver handle. The silver is then poured or molded over this material in the manufacturing process.
All sterling silver must be free of all stainless steel and weighted filler like wax, cement, plaster, support rods and glass."
<< <i>I saw the following at the Midwest Refineries site a couple weeks ago. Are these buying restictions typical for refiners, and how would anyone know what the actual silver content is before buying and stripping out fillers from the items that contain them? It would probably be fine for someone with knowledge in this area but I would have to learn a lot first.
"Midwest Refineries no longer accepts any weighted sterling silver
Some sterling silver items like candlesticks and pedestal style containers and bowls, are weighted with wax, plaster or fillers with steel support rods for strength. Dinner knives from sterling flatware, have stainless steel blades with steel support rods and filler that run through the sterling silver handle. The silver is then poured or molded over this material in the manufacturing process.
All sterling silver must be free of all stainless steel and weighted filler like wax, cement, plaster, support rods and glass." >>
that is a big caveat when buying any sterling sets for its silver content
<< <i>I saw the following at the Midwest Refineries site a couple weeks ago. Are these buying restictions typical for refiners, and how would anyone know what the actual silver content is before buying and stripping out fillers from the items that contain them? It would probably be fine for someone with knowledge in this area but I would have to learn a lot first.
"Midwest Refineries no longer accepts any weighted sterling silver
Some sterling silver items like candlesticks and pedestal style containers and bowls, are weighted with wax, plaster or fillers with steel support rods for strength. Dinner knives from sterling flatware, have stainless steel blades with steel support rods and filler that run through the sterling silver handle. The silver is then poured or molded over this material in the manufacturing process.
All sterling silver must be free of all stainless steel and weighted filler like wax, cement, plaster, support rods and glass." >>
Like I said in my list above: Knife handles are filled and blades are stainless.
The answer to your question of how would anyone know what the actual silver content is before buying and stripping is...you don't. Nobody does except the manufacturer. And I suspect they wouldn't tell you if you asked. Having hollow handles and steel blades is a good thing. Solid silver handles would be very heavy and cost-prohibitive. Sterling blades wouldn't hold an edge and would scratch easily.
You would be amazed at how thin the sterling is on a candlestick or a knife handle. It's not quite aluminum foil thickness, but it is shockingly close (to me at least).
I walked into my dealer's place back in October to find him just finishing up destroying an ornate candlestick. It kind of makes you sick to see it: piles of paper-thin bent and twisted metal. He was just about to start on its twin when I offered to buy it at melt. That's a 10 ounce bar of silver sitting at its base. With that in mind, care to guess how much actual silver there is in this candlestick?
5 ounces. And that's sterling, not .999
--Severian the Lame
Not worth the effort as an PM investment unless it came from the Habsburg's collection.
We use it a few times a year 'cuz it is SPECTACULAR when polished! Especially in the sun. And it feel soo cool in your hand. Folk who have never held a piece of sterling flatware will comment on it's looks and feel.
And my father helped design and build alot of the equipment used to make it. So it'll always be a neat reminder of him and how he provided for us when he passes.
Oh. That said, I wouldn't buy sterling for investment.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I wouldn't mind buying .925 silverware if it were cheap (melt or less) and I liked the pattern. Otherwise, forget about it. >>
Question: How do you buy an object for "melt or less" when you have absolutely no way to confirm its actual metal content in terms of total weight?
Just curious.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>
<< <i>I wouldn't mind buying .925 silverware if it were cheap (melt or less) and I liked the pattern. Otherwise, forget about it. >>
Question: How do you buy an object for "melt or less" when you have absolutely no way to confirm its actual metal content in terms of total weight?
Just curious. >>
If a piece of silverware is marked sterling by a major manufacturer such a Gorham, Stieff, etc., you can trust the silver content to be 925 fine.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wouldn't mind buying .925 silverware if it were cheap (melt or less) and I liked the pattern. Otherwise, forget about it. >>
Question: How do you buy an object for "melt or less" when you have absolutely no way to confirm its actual metal content in terms of total weight?
Just curious. >>
If a piece of silverware is marked sterling by a major manufacturer such a Gorham, Stieff, etc., you can trust the silver content to be 925 fine. >>
But if that piece is a knife, then how do you determine what % of that piece is steel, plaster, and silver?
I can imagine saying this to one of my close friends...
"Here look at my silver fork!"
"Here look at my 10oz silver bar!"
Just my opinion, good luck to those that do like it.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wouldn't mind buying .925 silverware if it were cheap (melt or less) and I liked the pattern. Otherwise, forget about it. >>
Question: How do you buy an object for "melt or less" when you have absolutely no way to confirm its actual metal content in terms of total weight?
Just curious. >>
If a piece of silverware is marked sterling by a major manufacturer such a Gorham, Stieff, etc., you can trust the silver content to be 925 fine. >>
But if that piece is a knife, then how do you determine what % of that piece is steel, plaster, and silver? >>
When the silver buyers buy from the public, how do they do it? I assume they just estimate the knives are 20% silver due to steel blades and filler in the handles. Of course they could smash the knife with a hammer to remove the blade and handle filler but that would destroy the knife. The various spoons, forks, serving pieces, etc. are just weighed and silver value is calculated based on .925 purity and the current spot silver price.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i> When the silver buyers buy from the public, how do they do it? I assume they just estimate the knives are 20% silver due to steel blades and filler in the handles. Of course they could smash the knife with a hammer to remove the blade and handle filler but that would destroy the knife. The various spoons, forks, serving pieces, etc. are just weighed and silver value is calculated based on .925 purity and the current spot silver price. >>
They give you 10-20% of spot .... (takes into account the non silver .. and what the refinery will pay...the refineries will do most of the smashing)