I actually believe that Pujols is on HGH. I believe that his rookie cards have in fact hit their high water mark. I was just trying to play the part of Fandango so that I may win a weekly award on another forum.
I do hope that Bill will give me some cinsideration for my troubles.
I have purposely misspelled Alberts last name in as many ways as humanly possible.
I have tried to make the absolute most outragious comments as possible, and the Babe one was a good one.
I have invoked every arguement that I can recall the Pujols jock sniffers have made.
I hope that none have too many ill feelings, for I believe I have not made any personal quotes.
This is what happens when it is just too d#$% hot to play golf on Sundays.
My fake Ebay search as proof of his purity was another great quote, you gotta give me some credit for that one. Even Fandango has yet to come up with line of thought.
<< <i>I actually believe that Pujols is on HGH. I believe that his rookie cards have in fact hit their high water mark. I was just trying to play the part of Fandango so that I may win a weekly award on another forum.
I do hope that Bill will give me some cinsideration for my troubles.
I have purposely misspelled Alberts last name in as many ways as humanly possible.
I have tried to make the absolute most outragious comments as possible, and the Babe one was a good one.
I have invoked every arguement that I can recall the Pujols jock sniffers have made.
I hope that none have too many ill feelings, for I believe I have not made any personal quotes.
This is what happens when it is just too d#$% hot to play golf on Sundays.
My fake Ebay search as proof of his purity was another great quote, you gotta give me some credit for that one. Even Fandango has yet to come up with line of thought. >>
lol The whole time I thought you were HIM being sarcastic. I just didn't know the guy's name who is the Pujols fanatic and figured it was you.
No offense but I really truly believe Pujols and many many others use PEDs and continue to use them constantly. Pujols won't ever be caught because he will always get the heads up prior to the "random" testing that goes on in baseball. If you really think Bud Selig is trying to clean up baseball you are sadly mistaken. He has been and will always be more worried about $. Look at his track record since the 80s. Now that there is a huge economy issue Selig is even more worried about $ vs cleaning up baseball...
1. Not only is Pujhols the cleanest player in the history of the game, he will also be the greatest player and you fools cannot stand that simple FACT! I capitalized the word fact just to prove a point because most of you morons can't read well!
2. You idiots who are not buying his rare rookies now while they are only in the 1000's will be crying in your stale rotten cajun beer when they are worth 100,000's in 15 years!!!!! I use the ! only to reinforce my FACTS!!!!!
3. I will be the first one to rub my fortune in your face yelling I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!
4. I would not trade any of my Sir Albert cards for any lesser player like Mantle (over-rated drunk like some of the other posters here!!! You know whom I talking about!!!!!! and in case you don't ( Bite me barf and gag one your miscuts!!)) or that fat azz Babe.
5. When Albert retires he will be the first player who is inducted before the five years exclusion and his cards will 10x in value!!!!!
6. Advise is what the wise doesn't need and the fool won't take. That applies here, I need no advise but for you fools here, buy albert now while he is cheap. I doubt that you fools will except such advise.
7. I better be the next DBOTW! >>
POTD!
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
You can look like this by simply eating large quanities of Flintstone vitimans. >>
I don't usually get into these mud slinging contests about Pujols. However, I had to throw in my 2 cents about this picture. It is widely known that those magazines doctor up those photos. There is not way that this picture is real. Here are a few pictures of Pujols' arms without the doctoring.
Compare these pictures with the "Muscle" mag. My arms are as big as Pujols' in these pictures and I ain't on nothing but biscuits and gravy.
You can be sure that there are plenty of players still using PEDs. I think probably that drugs out date the testing and the PEDs are not seen in urine. As of right now, there are no blood tests allowed as far as I know. I believe MLB does as much as the players union has allowed/agreed on and that is more of by force of the government.
well let me say this: (short and long) 1. I need to get me an ALT so I can argue with myself. (no u don't yes u do) 2. that girl on the ball is underage and all of you have been reported (to who i don't know) but u have been warned. 3. I still can't find the definition of HGH in the dictionary . 4. davey concepcion would have had Pojlos numbers ifin he could have spoke english. (shouldn't have invested all my money in Concepcion rookies) figures they would put ozzie in the hall and not davey! 5. I still can't find the definition of sarcasm. 6. we can all agree the reds will win the world series this year (no ifs ands or butts about it), but alot of hgh. 7. rumor has it poolhoss is going to cincy sometime this year. 8. We can all agree Bud Selig sucks and MLB would be better off with pete Rose & shoeless joe in the hall of fame. (I'd bet on it) 9. we all know the real homerun king is that japanese guy that no one can pronounce his name with like 900+ hrs. 10. Bonds quit doing HGH and went from a 14 gallon hat down to 8 gallon economy. 11. that muscle & fitness book has been doctored and probably sells HGH. 12. will trade HGH for LSD. (enough said). 13. the end : Go Reds Go.
I found this at deadspin I am sure its been mentioned here.
****************************************************************************** "So ... We've Got Some Affidavit Names
Everyone's guessing about who the blacked-out names in the Jason Grimsley report are, and it has been a fun parlor game so far. But we all knew eventually the names would get out. And we've been digging around ... and some sources have given us some names.
How reliable are these names? We feel pretty confident in them, but we can't go 100 percent, since the information is secondhand. We'll say this: If Bud Selig issuing a press release naming the names is a 10, and picking a player at random out of the Baseball Encyclopedia is a 1, we're at an 8.
So. Let's do it then. Remember: Betting lines are for entertainment purposes only.
First: The person who told Grimsley about the positive test in 2003. That's former Royals general manager Allard Baird.
As many people have guessed, one of the "former players" who were sold out by Grimsley: Sammy Sosa. Our source(s) couldn't confirm if the other was Rafael Palmeiro.
Nothing new or exciting about that name. Then it starts to get interesting. We've heard amphetamine rumors of Miguel Tejada, but we can't confirm that. What we can confirm? The doozy.
Grimsley says that a former employee of [redacted] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players once referred him to an amphetamine source. Later, this source — not the trainer — provided him with "amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone." This trainer? His name is Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City-based "strength and conditioning guru." (And former Strength And Conditioning Coordinator for the Royals.)
Does Mihlfeld's name sound familiar? If it doesn't, he — and we assure you, this gives us no pleasure to write this — has been Albert Pujols' personal trainer since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft. We have no confirmation that Pujols' name is in the affidavit ... but Mihlfeld's is. If you read the document, it doesn't say the trainer/Mihlfeld supplied all the HGH and what-not; it just says the trainer was the referrer.
Yeah. Sigh. We just report what we're told, folks. Ever hope your source is wrong? This is one of those times.
(UPDATE: OK, we've taken our head out of the microwave long enough to update you a bit. Here's a "diary" Grimsley wrote about his quick recovery from Tommy John surgery. (At MLB.com!) He thanks Mihlfeld for helping him with his recovery.
We repeat: We are not claiming that Pujols has taken HGH. We are simply pointing out that Milhfeld is reportedly mentioned in the affidavit, and that he has connections to be Grimsley and Pujols. Now, if you'll excuse us, we're going to go back to our silent screams of pain.)" ******************************************************************************
****************************************************************************** "Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann discuss the new 'more compact' Albert Pujols.
Pujols Remember the talk about Albert Pujols last year? Yeah that talk, about anabolics specifically HGH. How he trained with Mike Sweeney and Jason Grimsley. Yeah that Jason Grimsley, the HGH user. How Pujols power output rose dramatically over his career. The connections were discussed at Deadspin.
That talk seemed to settle down. Then yesterday, Dan Patrick and his sidekick Keith Olbermann noticed Pujols is more compact. Well, take a listen:
The two also discuss Barry Bonds' increased physical size. (thanks to Tony J for hearing this discussion, then finding it on MP3)" ******************************************************************************
IMO there are way to many links point to him using PEDs. Of course nothing can be proven...
You can look like this by simply eating large quanities of Flintstone vitimans. >>
I don't usually get into these mud slinging contests about Pujols. However, I had to throw in my 2 cents about this picture. It is widely known that those magazines doctor up those photos. There is not way that this picture is real. Here are a few pictures of Pujols' arms without the doctoring.
Compare these pictures with the "Muscle" mag. My arms are as big as Pujols' in these pictures and I ain't on nothing but biscuits and gravy.
>>
If you ever saw the nike commerical see how his body looks in the skin tight shirt. They didnt doctor that up for the TV commercial
With a few new twists (and alts) thrown in I think we have had this thread a time or two now.
The sad part is Pujols may be clean (none of us KNOW) but playing in this era, and putting up big numbers, many will assume. It's too bad for Pujols and it's too bad as this fact seems to bring out the nuttyness in the jock sniffers even more.
<< <i>I found this at deadspin I am sure its been mentioned here.
****************************************************************************** "So ... We've Got Some Affidavit Names
Everyone's guessing about who the blacked-out names in the Jason Grimsley report are, and it has been a fun parlor game so far. But we all knew eventually the names would get out. And we've been digging around ... and some sources have given us some names.
How reliable are these names? We feel pretty confident in them, but we can't go 100 percent, since the information is secondhand. We'll say this: If Bud Selig issuing a press release naming the names is a 10, and picking a player at random out of the Baseball Encyclopedia is a 1, we're at an 8.
So. Let's do it then. Remember: Betting lines are for entertainment purposes only.
First: The person who told Grimsley about the positive test in 2003. That's former Royals general manager Allard Baird.
As many people have guessed, one of the "former players" who were sold out by Grimsley: Sammy Sosa. Our source(s) couldn't confirm if the other was Rafael Palmeiro.
Nothing new or exciting about that name. Then it starts to get interesting. We've heard amphetamine rumors of Miguel Tejada, but we can't confirm that. What we can confirm? The doozy.
Grimsley says that a former employee of [redacted] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players once referred him to an amphetamine source. Later, this source — not the trainer — provided him with "amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone." This trainer? His name is Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City-based "strength and conditioning guru." (And former Strength And Conditioning Coordinator for the Royals.)
Does Mihlfeld's name sound familiar? If it doesn't, he — and we assure you, this gives us no pleasure to write this — has been Albert Pujols' personal trainer since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft. We have no confirmation that Pujols' name is in the affidavit ... but Mihlfeld's is. If you read the document, it doesn't say the trainer/Mihlfeld supplied all the HGH and what-not; it just says the trainer was the referrer.
Yeah. Sigh. We just report what we're told, folks. Ever hope your source is wrong? This is one of those times.
(UPDATE: OK, we've taken our head out of the microwave long enough to update you a bit. Here's a "diary" Grimsley wrote about his quick recovery from Tommy John surgery. (At MLB.com!) He thanks Mihlfeld for helping him with his recovery.
We repeat: We are not claiming that Pujols has taken HGH. We are simply pointing out that Milhfeld is reportedly mentioned in the affidavit, and that he has connections to be Grimsley and Pujols. Now, if you'll excuse us, we're going to go back to our silent screams of pain.)" ******************************************************************************
****************************************************************************** "Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann discuss the new 'more compact' Albert Pujols.
Pujols Remember the talk about Albert Pujols last year? Yeah that talk, about anabolics specifically HGH. How he trained with Mike Sweeney and Jason Grimsley. Yeah that Jason Grimsley, the HGH user. How Pujols power output rose dramatically over his career. The connections were discussed at Deadspin.
That talk seemed to settle down. Then yesterday, Dan Patrick and his sidekick Keith Olbermann noticed Pujols is more compact. Well, take a listen:
The two also discuss Barry Bonds' increased physical size. (thanks to Tony J for hearing this discussion, then finding it on MP3)" ******************************************************************************
IMO there are way to many links point to him using PEDs. Of course nothing can be proven... >>
Pujols’ Trainer Apparently Cleared
Houston’s Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte plus four other current and former players were named in a previously-blacked out area of an affidavit in the Jason Grimsley steroids case. While not mentioned explicitly, Albert Pujols’ trainer Chris Mihlfeld was cleared when another trainer was identified instead.
In Sunday’s Los Angeles Times, a new chapter of the Jason Grimsley steroids investigation was opened when the paper divulged names of six other players who like the former Arizona Diamondbacks’ pitcher allegedly used illegal performance enhancements and were named in Grimsley’s search warrant affidavit. The players include Houston pitchers Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte, Orioles Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts and Jay Gibbons and former Oriole David Segui.
The guilt or innocence of these individuals and by nature of association, every other player in organized baseball will be tried once again in the court of public opinion.
Sadly, what will likely be lost in this recent news is the unmasking of the athletic trainer who was allegedly the conduit by which several of the players obtained their illegal enhancements.
Called out in the affidavit was former Yankees trainer Brian McNamee, personal trainer for both Clemens and Pettitte. What was not mentioned in the Times is the fact that trainer is not named Chris Mihlfeld.
Previously, the internet site “Deadspin” fingered Albert Pujols’ personal trainer Mihlfeld as that dirty trainer connected to Grimsley.
The only photo in the Deadspin “report” was that of Pujols, though he was unnamed in the affidavit. In fact, just about every story published anywhere thereafter pictured the Cardinals star, rather than the previously-anonymous trainer.
The resultant shockwaves not only ruined the reputation of Kansas Cityan Mihlfeld, it also thrust Pujols into the spotlight, forcing him to publicly defend himself time and time again despite not being named or accused by anyone.
Pujols’ unparalleled success as a major leaguer singles him out for special scrutiny. Yet, the player reminds anyone and everyone that he continues to be tested for banned substances and passes every time.
As a subjective measure of the damage caused, I had noticed considerable booing directed toward Pujols around the league this season for the first time. At least it is the first time I recall it happening in such a consistent, widespread manner. It seems to be much more than begrudging respect given to an opposing star.
Since nothing has changed with Pujols since last year other than a Most Valuable Player Award and the apparent mis-connection with Grimsley, I surmise it to be fan backlash, expressing displeasure over the steroid implications.
I imagine the harm caused to Pujols and Mihlfeld that originated from the Deadspin “report” and repeated all over baseball can never be totally undone. And, no one can be held accountable.
As many of you will remember, back in June, a source we thought was reliable leaked to us that one of the names in the infamous Jason Grimsley HGH affidavit was Chris Mihlfeld, who is the former trainer for Grimsley and the longtim trainer of Albert Pujols. As evidenced by the Los Angeles Times this weekend, our source was, sadly, wrong. And therefore, so were we: Mihlfeld appears not to be named in the document.
So, a clearing of the decks, a mea culpa: We were wrong to trust our source’s information, and we were wrong to print their claim that he was in the document. We apologize to Mihlfeld and deeply regret the error.
You can see Pujols is not anything close to as big as the Muscle & Fitness cover shows. Like Frankhardy mentioned, it's well known that they do doctor magazine covers for marketing purposes.
STM - So, does that mean you think AP is/was on HGH?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Whenever performance-enhancing drugs rear their head, you often see the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" thrown around the discussion. It's a fine idea and one that deserves respect, but there's a significant snag to borrowing legal phrases for generic debate—it sounds very authoritative and conclusive, but the reality is much messier.
There are very few universals in law. Like many legal rules, the aforementioned presumption of innocence is defined by its context.
The criminal presumption must be overwhelmed beyond a reasonable doubt (even this is not a universal truth) while its civil counterpart is far weaker—often a preponderance of the evidence will suffice i.e. if the trier of fact is 51 percent convinced, you're screwed.
The difference exists primarily because the penalties for a criminal conviction are usually far more draconian than those imposed for civil liability.
Consequently, you can argue the presumption of innocence barring responsible public discourse—where the harm from a false "conviction" is relatively minor—almost doesn't exist so long as there is a reasonable basis for having the conversation.
Put another way—the presumption of innocence in the court of responsible public debate is overwhelmed upon a showing of any reasonable grounds for doubt.
This is a problem for Major League Baseball.
Whether the powers-that-be like it or not, the rampant use of PEDs in their sport—specifically, human growth hormone (HGH)—is reason enough to have the conversation until all that can be done to eliminate their use IS done.
Although MLB has taken commendable steps to begin closing the loopholes in the steroid policy, it goes without saying that at least one yawning gap remains. Remember, HGH is not a conventional anabolic steroid in that (as far as I can tell) only blood tests can detect clever use.
Take the story of Tim Montgomery and Marion Jones —in particular, notice how both athletes never failed a drug test yet admitted to juicing. Mind you, both individuals had to submit to Olympic anti-doping cops.
Olympic protocol on the matter has historically been so far ahead of the Bigs that I wouldn't be surprised to learn the 2000 Olympic standard is still more effective than what the Show employs today.
Regardless, the point is that Montgomery and Jones were juicing like crazy and never came up hot despite participating in a sport known to keep a close eye on such things.
The consensus is we have a substance that achieves all the illicit effects of your normal anabolic steroid, but can't be detected under the best of circumstances without an examination that Major League Baseball currently doesn't administer.
Against a backdrop littered with all manner of PED users—sluggers, Punch-and-Judy artists, long-relievers, closers, set-up men, starters, stars, bench-warmers, etc.—the need for an ongoing PED discussion is irrefutable.
Sadly, there is enough undeniably factual evidence in the record to doubt any ballplayer.
As George W. Bush so famously said , "Fool me once, shame on....shame on you...If you fool me, you can't get fooled again."
Which brings me to Albert Pujols and the Barry Bonds Problem.
The Barry Bonds Problem is the awkward reality with which anyone who dominates during the Steroid Era must live—the more success you experience, the closer your orbit gets to the PED black hole.
If you place the beginning of the era around 1996—giving the alleged steroid culture of the late-1980s Oakland Athletics' clubhouse about a decade to filter out into the rest of baseball—then a very stark trend develops in baseball's most intimidating forces as reflected by MVP winners from both leagues:
1996 —Ken Caminiti, San Diego Padres in the NL; Juan Gonzalez, Texas Rangers in the AL
1997 —Larry Walker, Colorado Rockies in the NL; Ken Griffey, Jr., Seattle Mariners in the AL
1998 —Sammy Sosa, Chicago Cubs in the NL; Juan Gonzalez, Texas Rangers in the AL
1999 —Chipper Jones, Atlanta Braves in the NL; Ivan Rodriguez, Texas Rangers in the AL
2000 —Jeff Kent, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Jason Giambi, Oakland Athletics in the AL
2001 —Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Ichiro Suzuki, Seattle Mariners in the AL
2002 —Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Miguel Tejada, Oakland Athletics in the AL
2003 —Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Alex Rodriguez, Texas Rangers in the AL
2004 —Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Vladimir Guerrero, Anaheim Angels in the AL
2005 —Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals in the NL; Alex Rodriguez, New York Yankees in the AL
2006 —Ryan Howard, Philadelphia Phillies in the NL; Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins in the AL
2007 —Jimmy Rollins, Philadelphia Phillies in the NL; Alex Rodriguez, New York Yankees in the AL
2008 —Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals in the NL; Dustin Pedroia, Boston Red Sox in the AL
2009 —Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals in the NL; Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins in the AL
By my count, that makes 14 years and 28 chances to crown a winner.
Exactly half the time, the award has gone to a player heavily implicated in the PED controversy. Look at the guys who've taken home the hardware multiple times—Barry Bonds, Juan Gonzalez, Alex Rodriguez, and Albert Pujols.
Hmm...
Even worse, Pujols' body of work is looking more and more like that of the most notorious PED offender as per MLB's tacit endorsement—Barry Lamar Bonds.
Pujols utterly dominated the National League field in 2009—only the Milwaukee Brewers' Prince Fielder came within 100 points of Pujols' slugging percentage and Fielder struck out over twice as many times to get there. This exceptional bat control without any appreciable loss of power is what separates Pujols and it's exactly what made Bonds so devastating at the height of his chemically enhanced brilliance.
Toss in that Pujols is gigantic and, by many accounts, kind of a d*ck. You'll recall Bonds answered to both of these descriptions.
If Prince Albert continues to rack up MVP trophies in similar fashion—with the same air of inevitability that surrounded Bonds' triumphs—the already uncomfortable parallels between the two will demand national scrutiny.
If they don't already.
Does any of this mean Albert Pujols is juicing? Absolutely, 100 percent NO. Is this even enough circumstantial evidence to accuse him of taking HGH? Absolutely, 100 percent NO.
Whether the crazies think so or not, I am NOT accusing Albert Pujols of taking PEDs.
Baseball continually abandons reason and logic to deliver once-unbelievable results so it is equally possible that a clean athlete could recreate the feats of a tainted all-time great.
What I AM saying is that we must raise and address BOTH possibilities as long as MLB refuses to foreclose all avenues around its banned-substance policy.
Otherwise, all this boom and bluster about taking the performance-enhancing drug problem seriously is simply nonsense. From Major League Baseball and the media.
Otherwise, this is the 1998 Home Run Chase or Bonds' 2000-2004 run all over again—everyone turning a blind-eye to the issue because it's convenient.
If Major League Baseball doesn't like the climate of suspicion, too bad.
The players, coaches, owners, and executives only have themselves to blame.
All twiley posted was a hit piece on Pujols. This just hours after his deadspin article was debunked.
I base the following comments on my time of being around Albert in person; I am 6'3", 230 lbs, and more buff than he is. I haven't lifted weights since high school (many years ago). Nor have I ever taken peds. Point being, I don't see how anyone thinks Albert is all that big. He's not. Perhaps a doctored Muscle & Fitness magazine cover has put that in the minds of some folks? Who knows? I can tell you that Albert could only dream of being as big as that doctored M & F cover shows. Albert is a solid guy, but not all that muscular. One could even accurately describe him as "pudgy" with that little bit of gut he has, that is evident when he is out of his baggy baseball jersey. Go to Busch Stadium during their pre-game workouts/batting practice to see what I am talking about. Albert is definately not a guy who is cut and ripped like Alex Rodriguez or Barry Bonds are/were.
And as far as that article suggesting Albert was not a nice guy is pretty silly. Albert has been more than gracious with me and my family when we have been around him. Of course all of us have our bad days, but I find Albert to be a pretty good guy from my experiences over the years that I have interacted with him. Just my 2 cents on this issue.
FWIW my posts are not shots at Pujols. My posts are discussing the topic and the good possibility of Pujols taking HGH. Also my posts are on how MLB is turning a blind eye to HGH and testing for it. Personally IMO I believe 95% of the current players in major league baseball are using HGH this includes all of the current yankees , all of the current red sox, and yes all current cardinals too...
<< <i>I base the following comments on my time of being around Albert in person; I am 6'3", 230 lbs, and more buff than he is. >>
I have nothing to add. Just wanted to quote this little snip from STM.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
All twiley posted was a hit piece on Pujols. This just hours after his deadspin article was debunked.
I base the following comments on my time of being around Albert in person; I am 6'3", 230 lbs, and more buff than he is. I haven't lifted weights since high school (many years ago). Nor have I ever taken peds. Point being, I don't see how anyone thinks Albert is all that big. He's not. Perhaps a doctored Muscle & Fitness magazine cover has put that in the minds of some folks? Who knows? I can tell you that Albert could only dream of being as big as that doctored M & F cover shows. Albert is a solid guy, but not all that muscular. One could even accurately describe him as "pudgy" with that little bit of gut he has, that is evident when he is out of his baggy baseball jersey. Go to Busch Stadium during their pre-game workouts/batting practice to see what I am talking about. Albert is definately not a guy who is cut and ripped like Alex Rodriguez or Barry Bonds are/were.
And as far as that article suggesting Albert was not a nice guy is pretty silly. Albert has been more than gracious with me and my family when we have been around him. Of course all of us have our bad days, but I find Albert to be a pretty good guy from my experiences over the years that I have interacted with him. Just my 2 cents on this issue.
I just like archiving this stuff for future reference.
<< <i>FWIW my posts are not shots at Pujols. My posts are discussing the topic and the good possibility of Pujols taking HGH. Also my posts are on how MLB is turning a blind eye to HGH and testing for it. Personally IMO I believe 95% of the current players in major league baseball are using HGH this includes all of the current yankees , all of the current red sox, and yes all current cardinals too... >>
Twiley,
All you are doing is pushing an agenda that is based on nothing but speculation.
Yesterday was the first time I have checked out this forum since last year(literally). I see trolls like larry allen, stown, lsu tigers, and the others smart mouths are still here. I guess some things never change.. Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. I just tried to share my personal experiences, but of course they had to be distorted by the usual suspects in an attempt to see what kind of fuzz they could kick up for cheap entertainment purposes. You pot stirrers can quote whatever you want. I am not going to be around all that much to care.
ROTFLMAO now I am pushing an agenda on speculation...
Wrong!
The only agenda that really needs pushing is MLB to get their act together and have real testing for PEDs such as HGH. I bet many many players would be fingered people we least expect!
As I posted prior...
<< <i>If Major League Baseball doesn't like the climate of suspicion, too bad.
The players, coaches, owners, and executives only have themselves to blame. >>
If you honestly believe that anyone in MLB from 1988 to date hasn't used or still does not use PEDs you really need to look beyond the narrow minded tunnel...
You know the first time I ever watch Pujols play baseball. I noticed he had a habit of biting his tongue. It reminded me of this guy I knew in California who was a methamphetamine tweaker. The guy would chew his tongue (like Albert) whenever he did anything. I said to myself. WOW Pujols looks like he is a amphetamine tweaker! I wonder if Albert was/is doing amphetamine too. All that tongue chewing and such...
All you are doing is pushing an agenda that is based on nothing but speculation.
>>
I dont see where Twiley is trying to push an agenda. This has been a discussion of a question if Pujols is on the juice. Actually, it's an interesting topic.
The question of ALL players started as speculation. Thats how facts have come out. Is Pujols such a god to some so much that it's not allowed to speculate? There were many who didnt want to speculate about Bonds either. There were many who didnt want to believe ARod would do it. Well, Pujols is no better of a man than them and you can be certain Pujols is no saint.
Of course no one really knows 100% except for Pujols himself. Maybe it will come out? Maybe it wont? I would like to believe that there are no players using PEDs anymore but I dont live in the land of make believe.
Yeah, Pujols is a good guy. There are lots of really good guys who do bad things and/or make mistakes. It's just human nature. YES! IT'S TRUE! PUJOLS IS HUMAN!
Nobody should ever use the "he has never failed a test" defense, because getting past the MLB testing program is about as easy as graduating from Kindergarten!
They do not do blood testing guys, and they don't test often enough.
Is Pujols on HGH or some other PED. Yes. THe dude has probably been on them since he was in High School.
Stan the Man, if you are such good buddies with Pujols and all this offends you...then next time you see him, tell him to publicly subject himself to Olympic Standard blood testing...and to do it the very next day that you propose it to him, so he can't find the way around that test. He should have done that years ago if he were such a saint and innocent, but he knew exactly where he could safely hide and still look like an advocate of cleanness...
Unitl the MLB players union subjects themself to that rigorous testing, they have only themselves to blame when they 'feel' they are falsely accused...and that goes for the jock sniffing fans of them too.
<< <i>Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. >>
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would make light of cancer. Pretty confident that you tried to slip that in, just to get me riled up, and you could play the innocent victim card once again.
FAIL.
I hope that doesn't come back to haunt you but if it does, I'll be the first to offer emotional, physical, and financial support any way I can because, well, that's just how I roll.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
All you are doing is pushing an agenda that is based on nothing but speculation.
Yesterday was the first time I have checked out this forum since last year(literally). I see trolls like larry allen, stown, lsu tigers, and the others smart mouths are still here. I guess some things never change.. Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. I just tried to share my personal experiences, but of course they had to be distorted by the usual suspects in an attempt to see what kind of fuzz they could kick up for cheap entertainment purposes. You pot stirrers can quote whatever you want. I am not going to be around all that much to care.
I think STM is one of Fandango's alts. STM is so off the chart it makes Fandango look sane. Ok, well maybe not "sane" but less insane maybe. I love this guy and all his alts. Thanks for the laughs.
I truly hope Albert continues to pass all of his drug tests and appears to stay clean...that would be great for baseball.
Whether fans like it or not, there are still some substances available are not detectable. I have a cousin who has her name on many pharmaceutical patents and is a a senior group leader at the University of Louisville as well as a senior scientist at a large corp. She had told me recently I would be amazed what technology we have in drugs now in regards to professional sports. We can only hope baseball goes all out in the way they test???
I really love reading all of the posts from Cardinals & Albert fans that all state he has to be drug free because he's religious, a great guy, into charities, they've seen him in person and he's really not that big compared to football players or a non-pro athlete.......bla bla bla bla, etc.
Being a religious person I always give people the benefit of the doubt and believe the best in people, but there is NO way I would ever say I know something for sure if I was only a fan.
Not trying to flame anyone, just throwing out some unbiased thoughts.
<< <i>ROTFLMAO now I am pushing an agenda on speculation...
Wrong!
The only agenda that really needs pushing is MLB to get their act together and have real testing for PEDs such as HGH. I bet many many players would be fingered people we least expect!
As I posted prior...
<< <i>If Major League Baseball doesn't like the climate of suspicion, too bad.
The players, coaches, owners, and executives only have themselves to blame. >>
If you honestly believe that anyone in MLB from 1988 to date hasn't used or still does not use PEDs you really need to look beyond the narrow minded tunnel...
You know the first time I ever watch Pujols play baseball. I noticed he had a habit of biting his tongue. It reminded me of this guy I knew in California who was a methamphetamine tweaker. The guy would chew his tongue (like Albert) whenever he did anything. I said to myself. WOW Pujols looks like he is a amphetamine tweaker! I wonder if Albert was/is doing amphetamine too. All that tongue chewing and such... >>
Again, no facts to back your wild allegations. Just nutty false speculation. Nothing more.
<< <i>Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. >>
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would make light of cancer. Pretty confident that you tried to slip that in, just to get me riled up, and you could play the innocent victim card once again.
FAIL.
I hope that doesn't come back to haunt you but if it does, I'll be the first to offer emotional, physical, and financial support any way I can because, well, that's just how I roll. >>
Nothing like taking a quote out of context, huh? There was no subliminal message making light of cancer. You ever hear the old saying; "The guy was a cancer in the clubhouse"? That was the true meaning and intent behind my words. Stop being so paranoid over nothing.
All you are doing is pushing an agenda that is based on nothing but speculation.
Yesterday was the first time I have checked out this forum since last year(literally). I see trolls like larry allen, stown, lsu tigers, and the others smart mouths are still here. I guess some things never change.. Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. I just tried to share my personal experiences, but of course they had to be distorted by the usual suspects in an attempt to see what kind of fuzz they could kick up for cheap entertainment purposes. You pot stirrers can quote whatever you want. I am not going to be around all that much to care.
I think STM is one of Fandango's alts. STM is so off the chart it makes Fandango look sane. Ok, well maybe not "sane" but less insane maybe. I love this guy and all his alts. Thanks for the laughs. >>
You are obsessed with bashing/mocking almost everyone that likes Pujols. It's juvenile nit picking nonsense.
~Of course I am an alt for Fandango.~ Have the moderator Carol check into things and then she can inform you that you are full of it.
<< <i>Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. >>
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would make light of cancer. Pretty confident that you tried to slip that in, just to get me riled up, and you could play the innocent victim card once again.
FAIL.
I hope that doesn't come back to haunt you but if it does, I'll be the first to offer emotional, physical, and financial support any way I can because, well, that's just how I roll. >>
Nothing like taking a quote out of context, huh? There was no subliminal message making light of cancer. You ever hear the old saying; "The guy was a cancer in the clubhouse"? That was the true meaning and intent behind my words. Stop being so paranoid over nothing. >>
Not being paranoid nor taking things out of context.
Again, if you develop cancer, I'll be there for you regardless if you're sniffing Al's jock or not.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
I do hope that Bill will give me some cinsideration for my troubles.
I have purposely misspelled Alberts last name in as many ways as humanly possible.
I have tried to make the absolute most outragious comments as possible, and the Babe one was a good one.
I have invoked every arguement that I can recall the Pujols jock sniffers have made.
I hope that none have too many ill feelings, for I believe I have not made any personal quotes.
This is what happens when it is just too d#$% hot to play golf on Sundays.
My fake Ebay search as proof of his purity was another great quote, you gotta give me some credit for that one. Even Fandango has yet to come up with line of thought.
<< <i>I actually believe that Pujols is on HGH. I believe that his rookie cards have in fact hit their high water mark. I was just trying to play the part of Fandango so that I may win a weekly award on another forum.
I do hope that Bill will give me some cinsideration for my troubles.
I have purposely misspelled Alberts last name in as many ways as humanly possible.
I have tried to make the absolute most outragious comments as possible, and the Babe one was a good one.
I have invoked every arguement that I can recall the Pujols jock sniffers have made.
I hope that none have too many ill feelings, for I believe I have not made any personal quotes.
This is what happens when it is just too d#$% hot to play golf on Sundays.
My fake Ebay search as proof of his purity was another great quote, you gotta give me some credit for that one. Even Fandango has yet to come up with line of thought. >>
lol The whole time I thought you were HIM being sarcastic. I just didn't know the guy's name who is the Pujols fanatic and figured it was you.
<< <i>What is Babe's rookie worth now? about half of what a auto'ed chrome Pojlos rookie >>
lol surely you jest.
Steve
<< <i>
You can look like this by simply eating large quanities of Flintstone vitimans.
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
<< <i>I would just like to say three things
1. Not only is Pujhols the cleanest player in the history of the game, he will also be the greatest player and you fools cannot stand that simple FACT! I capitalized the word fact just to prove a point because most of you morons can't read well!
2. You idiots who are not buying his rare rookies now while they are only in the 1000's will be crying in your stale rotten cajun beer when they are worth 100,000's in 15 years!!!!! I use the ! only to reinforce my FACTS!!!!!
3. I will be the first one to rub my fortune in your face yelling I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!
4. I would not trade any of my Sir Albert cards for any lesser player like Mantle (over-rated drunk like some of the other posters here!!! You know whom I talking about!!!!!! and in case you don't ( Bite me barf and gag one your miscuts!!)) or that fat azz Babe.
5. When Albert retires he will be the first player who is inducted before the five years exclusion and his cards will 10x in value!!!!!
6. Advise is what the wise doesn't need and the fool won't take. That applies here, I need no advise but for you fools here, buy albert now while he is cheap. I doubt that you fools will except such advise.
7. I better be the next DBOTW! >>
POTD!
<< <i>You had us at (National Champions) Alabama. >>
Which will make this September 11 all the sweeter, when we take down our third straight SEC opponent.
(No need to start a thread claiming that Joe uses HGH; heck, he invented the stuff!)
<< <i> Pujols won't ever be caught because he will always get the heads up prior to the "random" testing that goes on in baseball. >>
He will never be caught because the players union will not allow for any blood testing which is the only accurate way to detect HGH right now.
Perhaps the league testing can't catch the guys who are using
In that case, why would any of them not do it?
Or is the entire field of economics wrong and humans do not respond to incentives?
I, however, trust the testing policy
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
<< <i>
<< <i>
You can look like this by simply eating large quanities of Flintstone vitimans. >>
I don't usually get into these mud slinging contests about Pujols. However, I had to throw in my 2 cents about this picture. It is widely known that those magazines doctor up those photos. There is not way that this picture is real. Here are a few pictures of Pujols' arms without the doctoring.
Compare these pictures with the "Muscle" mag. My arms are as big as Pujols' in these pictures and I ain't on nothing but biscuits and gravy.
Shane
Where can we find a larger version of this gif?
<< <i>
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
1. I need to get me an ALT so I can argue with myself. (no u don't yes u do)
2. that girl on the ball is underage and all of you have been reported (to who i don't know) but u have been warned.
3. I still can't find the definition of HGH in the dictionary .
4. davey concepcion would have had Pojlos numbers ifin he could have spoke english. (shouldn't have invested all my money in Concepcion rookies) figures they would put ozzie in the hall and not davey!
5. I still can't find the definition of sarcasm.
6. we can all agree the reds will win the world series this year (no ifs ands or butts about it), but alot of hgh.
7. rumor has it poolhoss is going to cincy sometime this year.
8. We can all agree Bud Selig sucks and MLB would be better off with pete Rose & shoeless joe in the hall of fame. (I'd bet on it)
9. we all know the real homerun king is that japanese guy that no one can pronounce his name with like 900+ hrs.
10. Bonds quit doing HGH and went from a 14 gallon hat down to 8 gallon economy.
11. that muscle & fitness book has been doctored and probably sells HGH.
12. will trade HGH for LSD. (enough said).
13. the end : Go Reds Go.
******************************************************************************
"So ... We've Got Some Affidavit Names
Everyone's guessing about who the blacked-out names in the Jason Grimsley report are, and it has been a fun parlor game so far. But we all knew eventually the names would get out. And we've been digging around ... and some sources have given us some names.
How reliable are these names? We feel pretty confident in them, but we can't go 100 percent, since the information is secondhand. We'll say this: If Bud Selig issuing a press release naming the names is a 10, and picking a player at random out of the Baseball Encyclopedia is a 1, we're at an 8.
So. Let's do it then. Remember: Betting lines are for entertainment purposes only.
First: The person who told Grimsley about the positive test in 2003. That's former Royals general manager Allard Baird.
As many people have guessed, one of the "former players" who were sold out by Grimsley: Sammy Sosa. Our source(s) couldn't confirm if the other was Rafael Palmeiro.
Nothing new or exciting about that name. Then it starts to get interesting. We've heard amphetamine rumors of Miguel Tejada, but we can't confirm that. What we can confirm? The doozy.
Grimsley says that a former employee of [redacted] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players once referred him to an amphetamine source. Later, this source — not the trainer — provided him with "amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone." This trainer? His name is Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City-based "strength and conditioning guru." (And former Strength And Conditioning Coordinator for the Royals.)
Does Mihlfeld's name sound familiar? If it doesn't, he — and we assure you, this gives us no pleasure to write this — has been Albert Pujols' personal trainer since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft. We have no confirmation that Pujols' name is in the affidavit ... but Mihlfeld's is. If you read the document, it doesn't say the trainer/Mihlfeld supplied all the HGH and what-not; it just says the trainer was the referrer.
Yeah. Sigh. We just report what we're told, folks. Ever hope your source is wrong? This is one of those times.
(UPDATE: OK, we've taken our head out of the microwave long enough to update you a bit. Here's a "diary" Grimsley wrote about his quick recovery from Tommy John surgery. (At MLB.com!) He thanks Mihlfeld for helping him with his recovery.
We repeat: We are not claiming that Pujols has taken HGH. We are simply pointing out that Milhfeld is reportedly mentioned in the affidavit, and that he has connections to be Grimsley and Pujols. Now, if you'll excuse us, we're going to go back to our silent screams of pain.)"
******************************************************************************
I also found this interesting MP3 at this
link
******************************************************************************
"Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann discuss the new 'more compact' Albert Pujols.
Pujols Remember the talk about Albert Pujols last year? Yeah that talk, about anabolics specifically HGH. How he trained with Mike Sweeney and Jason Grimsley. Yeah that Jason Grimsley, the HGH user. How Pujols power output rose dramatically over his career. The connections were discussed at Deadspin.
That talk seemed to settle down. Then yesterday, Dan Patrick and his sidekick Keith Olbermann noticed Pujols is more compact. Well, take a listen:
The two also discuss Barry Bonds' increased physical size. (thanks to Tony J for hearing this discussion, then finding it on MP3)"
******************************************************************************
IMO there are way to many links point to him using PEDs. Of course nothing can be proven...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
You can look like this by simply eating large quanities of Flintstone vitimans. >>
I don't usually get into these mud slinging contests about Pujols. However, I had to throw in my 2 cents about this picture. It is widely known that those magazines doctor up those photos. There is not way that this picture is real. Here are a few pictures of Pujols' arms without the doctoring.
Compare these pictures with the "Muscle" mag. My arms are as big as Pujols' in these pictures and I ain't on nothing but biscuits and gravy.
If you ever saw the nike commerical see how his body looks in the skin tight shirt. They didnt doctor that up for the TV commercial
<< <i>I hate when people use my icon.
Why would you hate that? arent we an army?
The sad part is Pujols may be clean (none of us KNOW) but playing in this era, and putting up big numbers, many will assume. It's too bad for Pujols and it's too bad as this fact seems to bring out the nuttyness in the jock sniffers even more.
I'll believe he is clean when the MLBPA agrees to blood testing and choose to fund a testing program.
<< <i>I found this at deadspin I am sure its been mentioned here.
******************************************************************************
"So ... We've Got Some Affidavit Names
Everyone's guessing about who the blacked-out names in the Jason Grimsley report are, and it has been a fun parlor game so far. But we all knew eventually the names would get out. And we've been digging around ... and some sources have given us some names.
How reliable are these names? We feel pretty confident in them, but we can't go 100 percent, since the information is secondhand. We'll say this: If Bud Selig issuing a press release naming the names is a 10, and picking a player at random out of the Baseball Encyclopedia is a 1, we're at an 8.
So. Let's do it then. Remember: Betting lines are for entertainment purposes only.
First: The person who told Grimsley about the positive test in 2003. That's former Royals general manager Allard Baird.
As many people have guessed, one of the "former players" who were sold out by Grimsley: Sammy Sosa. Our source(s) couldn't confirm if the other was Rafael Palmeiro.
Nothing new or exciting about that name. Then it starts to get interesting. We've heard amphetamine rumors of Miguel Tejada, but we can't confirm that. What we can confirm? The doozy.
Grimsley says that a former employee of [redacted] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players once referred him to an amphetamine source. Later, this source — not the trainer — provided him with "amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone." This trainer? His name is Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City-based "strength and conditioning guru." (And former Strength And Conditioning Coordinator for the Royals.)
Does Mihlfeld's name sound familiar? If it doesn't, he — and we assure you, this gives us no pleasure to write this — has been Albert Pujols' personal trainer since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft. We have no confirmation that Pujols' name is in the affidavit ... but Mihlfeld's is. If you read the document, it doesn't say the trainer/Mihlfeld supplied all the HGH and what-not; it just says the trainer was the referrer.
Yeah. Sigh. We just report what we're told, folks. Ever hope your source is wrong? This is one of those times.
(UPDATE: OK, we've taken our head out of the microwave long enough to update you a bit. Here's a "diary" Grimsley wrote about his quick recovery from Tommy John surgery. (At MLB.com!) He thanks Mihlfeld for helping him with his recovery.
We repeat: We are not claiming that Pujols has taken HGH. We are simply pointing out that Milhfeld is reportedly mentioned in the affidavit, and that he has connections to be Grimsley and Pujols. Now, if you'll excuse us, we're going to go back to our silent screams of pain.)"
******************************************************************************
I also found this interesting MP3 at this
link
******************************************************************************
"Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann discuss the new 'more compact' Albert Pujols.
Pujols Remember the talk about Albert Pujols last year? Yeah that talk, about anabolics specifically HGH. How he trained with Mike Sweeney and Jason Grimsley. Yeah that Jason Grimsley, the HGH user. How Pujols power output rose dramatically over his career. The connections were discussed at Deadspin.
That talk seemed to settle down. Then yesterday, Dan Patrick and his sidekick Keith Olbermann noticed Pujols is more compact. Well, take a listen:
The two also discuss Barry Bonds' increased physical size. (thanks to Tony J for hearing this discussion, then finding it on MP3)"
******************************************************************************
IMO there are way to many links point to him using PEDs. Of course nothing can be proven... >>
Pujols’ Trainer Apparently Cleared
Houston’s Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte plus four other current and former players were named in a previously-blacked out area of an affidavit in the Jason Grimsley steroids case. While not mentioned explicitly, Albert Pujols’ trainer Chris Mihlfeld was cleared when another trainer was identified instead.
In Sunday’s Los Angeles Times, a new chapter of the Jason Grimsley steroids investigation was opened when the paper divulged names of six other players who like the former Arizona Diamondbacks’ pitcher allegedly used illegal performance enhancements and were named in Grimsley’s search warrant affidavit.
The players include Houston pitchers Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte, Orioles Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts and Jay Gibbons and former Oriole David Segui.
The guilt or innocence of these individuals and by nature of association, every other player in organized baseball will be tried once again in the court of public opinion.
Sadly, what will likely be lost in this recent news is the unmasking of the athletic trainer who was allegedly the conduit by which several of the players obtained their illegal enhancements.
Called out in the affidavit was former Yankees trainer Brian McNamee, personal trainer for both Clemens and Pettitte. What was not mentioned in the Times is the fact that trainer is not named Chris Mihlfeld.
Previously, the internet site “Deadspin” fingered Albert Pujols’ personal trainer Mihlfeld as that dirty trainer connected to Grimsley.
The only photo in the Deadspin “report” was that of Pujols, though he was unnamed in the affidavit. In fact, just about every story published anywhere thereafter pictured the Cardinals star, rather than the previously-anonymous trainer.
The resultant shockwaves not only ruined the reputation of Kansas Cityan Mihlfeld, it also thrust Pujols into the spotlight, forcing him to publicly defend himself time and time again despite not being named or accused by anyone.
Pujols’ unparalleled success as a major leaguer singles him out for special scrutiny. Yet, the player reminds anyone and everyone that he continues to be tested for banned substances and passes every time.
As a subjective measure of the damage caused, I had noticed considerable booing directed toward Pujols around the league this season for the first time. At least it is the first time I recall it happening in such a consistent, widespread manner. It seems to be much more than begrudging respect given to an opposing star.
Since nothing has changed with Pujols since last year other than a Most Valuable Player Award and the apparent mis-connection with Grimsley, I surmise it to be fan backlash, expressing displeasure over the steroid implications.
I imagine the harm caused to Pujols and Mihlfeld that originated from the Deadspin “report” and repeated all over baseball can never be totally undone. And, no one can be held accountable.
Sadly, only the damage remains.
Read the article here:
Mihlfeld
As many of you will remember, back in June, a source we thought was reliable leaked to us that one of the names in the infamous Jason Grimsley HGH affidavit was Chris Mihlfeld, who is the former trainer for Grimsley and the longtim trainer of Albert Pujols. As evidenced by the Los Angeles Times this weekend, our source was, sadly, wrong. And therefore, so were we: Mihlfeld appears not to be named in the document.
So, a clearing of the decks, a mea culpa: We were wrong to trust our source’s information, and we were wrong to print their claim that he was in the document. We apologize to Mihlfeld and deeply regret the error.
EDIT: To fix link
Pujols
You can see Pujols is not anything close to as big as the Muscle & Fitness cover shows. Like Frankhardy mentioned, it's well known that they do doctor magazine covers for marketing purposes.
There are very few universals in law. Like many legal rules, the aforementioned presumption of innocence is defined by its context.
The criminal presumption must be overwhelmed beyond a reasonable doubt (even this is not a universal truth) while its civil counterpart is far weaker—often a preponderance of the evidence will suffice i.e. if the trier of fact is 51 percent convinced, you're screwed.
The difference exists primarily because the penalties for a criminal conviction are usually far more draconian than those imposed for civil liability.
Consequently, you can argue the presumption of innocence barring responsible public discourse—where the harm from a false "conviction" is relatively minor—almost doesn't exist so long as there is a reasonable basis for having the conversation.
Put another way—the presumption of innocence in the court of responsible public debate is overwhelmed upon a showing of any reasonable grounds for doubt.
This is a problem for Major League Baseball.
Whether the powers-that-be like it or not, the rampant use of PEDs in their sport—specifically, human growth hormone (HGH)—is reason enough to have the conversation until all that can be done to eliminate their use IS done.
Although MLB has taken commendable steps to begin closing the loopholes in the steroid policy, it goes without saying that at least one yawning gap remains. Remember, HGH is not a conventional anabolic steroid in that (as far as I can tell) only blood tests can detect clever use.
Take the story of Tim Montgomery and Marion Jones —in particular, notice how both athletes never failed a drug test yet admitted to juicing. Mind you, both individuals had to submit to Olympic anti-doping cops.
Olympic protocol on the matter has historically been so far ahead of the Bigs that I wouldn't be surprised to learn the 2000 Olympic standard is still more effective than what the Show employs today.
Regardless, the point is that Montgomery and Jones were juicing like crazy and never came up hot despite participating in a sport known to keep a close eye on such things.
The consensus is we have a substance that achieves all the illicit effects of your normal anabolic steroid, but can't be detected under the best of circumstances without an examination that Major League Baseball currently doesn't administer.
Against a backdrop littered with all manner of PED users—sluggers, Punch-and-Judy artists, long-relievers, closers, set-up men, starters, stars, bench-warmers, etc.—the need for an ongoing PED discussion is irrefutable.
Sadly, there is enough undeniably factual evidence in the record to doubt any ballplayer.
As George W. Bush so famously said , "Fool me once, shame on....shame on you...If you fool me, you can't get fooled again."
Which brings me to Albert Pujols and the Barry Bonds Problem.
The Barry Bonds Problem is the awkward reality with which anyone who dominates during the Steroid Era must live—the more success you experience, the closer your orbit gets to the PED black hole.
If you place the beginning of the era around 1996—giving the alleged steroid culture of the late-1980s Oakland Athletics' clubhouse about a decade to filter out into the rest of baseball—then a very stark trend develops in baseball's most intimidating forces as reflected by MVP winners from both leagues:
1996 —Ken Caminiti, San Diego Padres in the NL; Juan Gonzalez, Texas Rangers in the AL
1997 —Larry Walker, Colorado Rockies in the NL; Ken Griffey, Jr., Seattle Mariners in the AL
1998 —Sammy Sosa, Chicago Cubs in the NL; Juan Gonzalez, Texas Rangers in the AL
1999 —Chipper Jones, Atlanta Braves in the NL; Ivan Rodriguez, Texas Rangers in the AL
2000 —Jeff Kent, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Jason Giambi, Oakland Athletics in the AL
2001 —Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Ichiro Suzuki, Seattle Mariners in the AL
2002 —Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Miguel Tejada, Oakland Athletics in the AL
2003 —Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Alex Rodriguez, Texas Rangers in the AL
2004 —Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants in the NL; Vladimir Guerrero, Anaheim Angels in the AL
2005 —Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals in the NL; Alex Rodriguez, New York Yankees in the AL
2006 —Ryan Howard, Philadelphia Phillies in the NL; Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins in the AL
2007 —Jimmy Rollins, Philadelphia Phillies in the NL; Alex Rodriguez, New York Yankees in the AL
2008 —Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals in the NL; Dustin Pedroia, Boston Red Sox in the AL
2009 —Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals in the NL; Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins in the AL
By my count, that makes 14 years and 28 chances to crown a winner.
Exactly half the time, the award has gone to a player heavily implicated in the PED controversy. Look at the guys who've taken home the hardware multiple times—Barry Bonds, Juan Gonzalez, Alex Rodriguez, and Albert Pujols.
Hmm...
Even worse, Pujols' body of work is looking more and more like that of the most notorious PED offender as per MLB's tacit endorsement—Barry Lamar Bonds.
Pujols utterly dominated the National League field in 2009—only the Milwaukee Brewers' Prince Fielder came within 100 points of Pujols' slugging percentage and Fielder struck out over twice as many times to get there. This exceptional bat control without any appreciable loss of power is what separates Pujols and it's exactly what made Bonds so devastating at the height of his chemically enhanced brilliance.
Toss in that Pujols is gigantic and, by many accounts, kind of a d*ck. You'll recall Bonds answered to both of these descriptions.
If Prince Albert continues to rack up MVP trophies in similar fashion—with the same air of inevitability that surrounded Bonds' triumphs—the already uncomfortable parallels between the two will demand national scrutiny.
If they don't already.
Does any of this mean Albert Pujols is juicing? Absolutely, 100 percent NO. Is this even enough circumstantial evidence to accuse him of taking HGH? Absolutely, 100 percent NO.
Whether the crazies think so or not, I am NOT accusing Albert Pujols of taking PEDs.
Baseball continually abandons reason and logic to deliver once-unbelievable results so it is equally possible that a clean athlete could recreate the feats of a tainted all-time great.
What I AM saying is that we must raise and address BOTH possibilities as long as MLB refuses to foreclose all avenues around its banned-substance policy.
Otherwise, all this boom and bluster about taking the performance-enhancing drug problem seriously is simply nonsense. From Major League Baseball and the media.
Otherwise, this is the 1998 Home Run Chase or Bonds' 2000-2004 run all over again—everyone turning a blind-eye to the issue because it's convenient.
If Major League Baseball doesn't like the climate of suspicion, too bad.
The players, coaches, owners, and executives only have themselves to blame.
Article is found here
I base the following comments on my time of being around Albert in person; I am 6'3", 230 lbs, and more buff than he is. I haven't lifted weights since high school (many years ago). Nor have I ever taken peds. Point being, I don't see how anyone thinks Albert is all that big. He's not. Perhaps a doctored Muscle & Fitness magazine cover has put that in the minds of some folks? Who knows? I can tell you that Albert could only dream of being as big as that doctored M & F cover shows. Albert is a solid guy, but not all that muscular. One could even accurately describe him as "pudgy" with that little bit of gut he has, that is evident when he is out of his baggy baseball jersey. Go to Busch Stadium during their pre-game workouts/batting practice to see what I am talking about. Albert is definately not a guy who is cut and ripped like Alex Rodriguez or Barry Bonds are/were.
And as far as that article suggesting Albert was not a nice guy is pretty silly. Albert has been more than gracious with me and my family when we have been around him. Of course all of us have our bad days, but I find Albert to be a pretty good guy from my experiences over the years that I have interacted with him. Just my 2 cents on this issue.
<< <i>I base the following comments on my time of being around Albert in person; I am 6'3", 230 lbs, and more buff than he is. >>
I have nothing to add. Just wanted to quote this little snip from STM.
I base the following comments on my time of being around Albert in person; I am 6'3", 230 lbs, and more buff than he is. I haven't lifted weights since high school (many years ago). Nor have I ever taken peds. Point being, I don't see how anyone thinks Albert is all that big. He's not. Perhaps a doctored Muscle & Fitness magazine cover has put that in the minds of some folks? Who knows? I can tell you that Albert could only dream of being as big as that doctored M & F cover shows. Albert is a solid guy, but not all that muscular. One could even accurately describe him as "pudgy" with that little bit of gut he has, that is evident when he is out of his baggy baseball jersey. Go to Busch Stadium during their pre-game workouts/batting practice to see what I am talking about. Albert is definately not a guy who is cut and ripped like Alex Rodriguez or Barry Bonds are/were.
And as far as that article suggesting Albert was not a nice guy is pretty silly. Albert has been more than gracious with me and my family when we have been around him. Of course all of us have our bad days, but I find Albert to be a pretty good guy from my experiences over the years that I have interacted with him. Just my 2 cents on this issue.
I just like archiving this stuff for future reference.
<< <i>FWIW my posts are not shots at Pujols. My posts are discussing the topic and the good possibility of Pujols taking HGH. Also my posts are on how MLB is turning a blind eye to HGH and testing for it. Personally IMO I believe 95% of the current players in major league baseball are using HGH this includes all of the current yankees , all of the current red sox, and yes all current cardinals too... >>
Twiley,
All you are doing is pushing an agenda that is based on nothing but speculation.
Yesterday was the first time I have checked out this forum since last year(literally). I see trolls like larry allen, stown, lsu tigers, and the others smart mouths are still here. I guess some things never change.. Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. I just tried to share my personal experiences, but of course they had to be distorted by the usual suspects in an attempt to see what kind of fuzz they could kick up for cheap entertainment purposes. You pot stirrers can quote whatever you want. I am not going to be around all that much to care.
Wrong!
The only agenda that really needs pushing is MLB to get their act together and have real testing for PEDs such as HGH. I bet many many players would be fingered people we least expect!
As I posted prior...
<< <i>If Major League Baseball doesn't like the climate of suspicion, too bad.
The players, coaches, owners, and executives only have themselves to blame. >>
If you honestly believe that anyone in MLB from 1988 to date hasn't used or still does not use PEDs you really need to look beyond the narrow minded tunnel...
You know the first time I ever watch Pujols play baseball. I noticed he had a habit of biting his tongue. It reminded me of this guy I knew in California who was a methamphetamine tweaker. The guy would chew his tongue (like Albert) whenever he did anything. I said to myself. WOW Pujols looks like he is a amphetamine tweaker! I wonder if Albert was/is doing amphetamine too. All that tongue chewing and such...
<< <i>
Twiley,
All you are doing is pushing an agenda that is based on nothing but speculation.
>>
I dont see where Twiley is trying to push an agenda. This has been a discussion of a question if Pujols is on the juice. Actually, it's an interesting topic.
The question of ALL players started as speculation. Thats how facts have come out. Is Pujols such a god to some so much that it's not allowed to speculate? There were many who didnt want to speculate about Bonds either. There were many who didnt want to believe ARod would do it. Well, Pujols is no better of a man than them and you can be certain Pujols is no saint.
Of course no one really knows 100% except for Pujols himself. Maybe it will come out? Maybe it wont? I would like to believe that there are no players using PEDs anymore but I dont live in the land of make believe.
Yeah, Pujols is a good guy. There are lots of really good guys who do bad things and/or make mistakes. It's just human nature. YES! IT'S TRUE! PUJOLS IS HUMAN!
Nobody should ever use the "he has never failed a test" defense, because getting past the MLB testing program is about as easy as graduating from Kindergarten!
They do not do blood testing guys, and they don't test often enough.
Is Pujols on HGH or some other PED. Yes. THe dude has probably been on them since he was in High School.
Stan the Man, if you are such good buddies with Pujols and all this offends you...then next time you see him, tell him to publicly subject himself to Olympic Standard blood testing...and to do it the very next day that you propose it to him, so he can't find the way around that test. He should have done that years ago if he were such a saint and innocent, but he knew exactly where he could safely hide and still look like an advocate of cleanness...
Unitl the MLB players union subjects themself to that rigorous testing, they have only themselves to blame when they 'feel' they are falsely accused...and that goes for the jock sniffing fans of them too.
<< <i>Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. >>
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would make light of cancer. Pretty confident that you tried to slip that in, just to get me riled up, and you could play the innocent victim card once again.
FAIL.
I hope that doesn't come back to haunt you but if it does, I'll be the first to offer emotional, physical, and financial support any way I can because, well, that's just how I roll.
All you are doing is pushing an agenda that is based on nothing but speculation.
Yesterday was the first time I have checked out this forum since last year(literally). I see trolls like larry allen, stown, lsu tigers, and the others smart mouths are still here. I guess some things never change.. Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. I just tried to share my personal experiences, but of course they had to be distorted by the usual suspects in an attempt to see what kind of fuzz they could kick up for cheap entertainment purposes. You pot stirrers can quote whatever you want. I am not going to be around all that much to care.
I think STM is one of Fandango's alts. STM is so off the chart it makes Fandango look sane. Ok, well maybe not "sane" but less insane maybe. I love this guy and all his alts. Thanks for the laughs.
Whether fans like it or not, there are still some substances available are not detectable. I have a cousin who has her name on many pharmaceutical patents and is a a senior group leader at the University of Louisville as well as a senior scientist at a large corp. She had told me recently I would be amazed what technology we have in drugs now in regards to professional sports. We can only hope baseball goes all out in the way they test???
I really love reading all of the posts from Cardinals & Albert fans that all state he has to be drug free because he's religious, a great guy, into charities, they've seen him in person and he's really not that big compared to football players or a non-pro athlete.......bla bla bla bla, etc.
Being a religious person I always give people the benefit of the doubt and believe the best in people, but there is NO way I would ever say I know something for sure if I was only a fan.
Not trying to flame anyone, just throwing out some unbiased thoughts.
brian
<< <i>ROTFLMAO now I am pushing an agenda on speculation...
Wrong!
The only agenda that really needs pushing is MLB to get their act together and have real testing for PEDs such as HGH. I bet many many players would be fingered people we least expect!
As I posted prior...
<< <i>If Major League Baseball doesn't like the climate of suspicion, too bad.
The players, coaches, owners, and executives only have themselves to blame. >>
If you honestly believe that anyone in MLB from 1988 to date hasn't used or still does not use PEDs you really need to look beyond the narrow minded tunnel...
You know the first time I ever watch Pujols play baseball. I noticed he had a habit of biting his tongue. It reminded me of this guy I knew in California who was a methamphetamine tweaker. The guy would chew his tongue (like Albert) whenever he did anything. I said to myself. WOW Pujols looks like he is a amphetamine tweaker! I wonder if Albert was/is doing amphetamine too. All that tongue chewing and such... >>
Again, no facts to back your wild allegations. Just nutty false speculation. Nothing more.
<< <i>
<< <i>Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. >>
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would make light of cancer. Pretty confident that you tried to slip that in, just to get me riled up, and you could play the innocent victim card once again.
FAIL.
I hope that doesn't come back to haunt you but if it does, I'll be the first to offer emotional, physical, and financial support any way I can because, well, that's just how I roll. >>
Nothing like taking a quote out of context, huh? There was no subliminal message making light of cancer. You ever hear the old saying; "The guy was a cancer in the clubhouse"? That was the true meaning and intent behind my words. Stop being so paranoid over nothing.
<< <i>Twiley,
All you are doing is pushing an agenda that is based on nothing but speculation.
Yesterday was the first time I have checked out this forum since last year(literally). I see trolls like larry allen, stown, lsu tigers, and the others smart mouths are still here. I guess some things never change.. Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. I just tried to share my personal experiences, but of course they had to be distorted by the usual suspects in an attempt to see what kind of fuzz they could kick up for cheap entertainment purposes. You pot stirrers can quote whatever you want. I am not going to be around all that much to care.
I think STM is one of Fandango's alts. STM is so off the chart it makes Fandango look sane. Ok, well maybe not "sane" but less insane maybe. I love this guy and all his alts. Thanks for the laughs. >>
You are obsessed with bashing/mocking almost everyone that likes Pujols. It's juvenile nit picking nonsense.
~Of course I am an alt for Fandango.~ Have the moderator Carol check into things and then she can inform you that you are full of it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Those cancers prevent this place from being an enjoyable place to visit anymore. >>
It doesn't surprise me at all that you would make light of cancer. Pretty confident that you tried to slip that in, just to get me riled up, and you could play the innocent victim card once again.
FAIL.
I hope that doesn't come back to haunt you but if it does, I'll be the first to offer emotional, physical, and financial support any way I can because, well, that's just how I roll. >>
Nothing like taking a quote out of context, huh? There was no subliminal message making light of cancer. You ever hear the old saying; "The guy was a cancer in the clubhouse"? That was the true meaning and intent behind my words. Stop being so paranoid over nothing. >>
Not being paranoid nor taking things out of context.
Again, if you develop cancer, I'll be there for you regardless if you're sniffing Al's jock or not.