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Legend take on auctions
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Laura had a very interesting post on Auctions in Hot Topics -- I read it this morning. It is now gone -- I was hoping someone here would post it and see what others thought.
In general, it gave a lot of reasons why sellers and buyers need to be wary of auctions and of certain auction practices. I was going to read it closer later today but now it's gone.
I am going to have to start printing her posts! There is some good stuff there from someone not afraid to speak her mind, but twice now she's pulled them shortly after posting them.
In general, it gave a lot of reasons why sellers and buyers need to be wary of auctions and of certain auction practices. I was going to read it closer later today but now it's gone.
I am going to have to start printing her posts! There is some good stuff there from someone not afraid to speak her mind, but twice now she's pulled them shortly after posting them.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
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Comments
I agree with 98% of what she said and it was very informative for those who do not deal with auctioneers often.
I found it a good refresher for me as well.
more "balanced" in what way, vs. what was initially posted?? i find it funny that Legend is always telling a different story about auctions versus bourse versus dealer. apparently whatever venue is one where they can be successful is the one to tout(while ragging on the other two) and whatever venue works to their advantage at any particular moment is the good one. be patient and in a few months or a year Legend will post about the attributes of the auction venue and why the bourse sucks.
that place is a freakin' merry-go-round from my perspective and i can't understand why so many place such value on their obviously biased view on things. to each thei own, i guess.
have a nice day.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
<< <i>Didn't Legend at one time start their own auction biz, or am I confusing them with someone else? >>
Yes, they briefly teamed up with Dan Morphy/Morphy Auctions, and conducted (I think it was) a few coin sales together.
I think they found auction biz is alot of work without the proper staffing level
You asked;
<< <i>version will be forthcoming that will appear more "balanced." more "balanced" in what way, vs. what was initially posted?? >>
Yes, versus what was originally posted.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
<< <i>Didn't Legend at one time start their own auction biz, or am I confusing them with someone else? >>
IIRC, Legend had two separate entries into the auction biz in the last several years. I purchased a legendary bicentennial Ike from the first iteration.
Here it is:
What is amazing to me is why I get the calls and emails from the leaders in this biz and others do not. The last Hot Topic I had to pull down and rewrite was nothing as compared to a few others that are still posted! I feel like I am dealing with a "bully pulpit" mentality from the heads of everything important in this business.
In todays article about auctions, I wrote no names and tried to be general. Yet, as usual I heard from someone. Sure, what I wrote was a somewhat toxic, but hell, I have seen some serious things happen to collectors. My job is to protect my customers just as the auction companies are there to work for the consignors. I am addicted to auctions as much as much as anyone. I've probably spent as much or more than any other dealer in the past 5 years at auctions (I know the auction companies would have sorely missed my underbidding as well as my purchases). Don't think I didn't get screwed once or twice during that time. So why can't I comment on problems and tell people how to avoid them?
Yes, for the record, we did twice try to enter the auction biz. Both times I had to withdraw due to time/staffing issues-nothing else. It is NOT easy to hire people in this biz. I could not commit the time needed even when I had teamed up with Dan Morphy. I was so happy to be in auctions too. We ran clean sales. We weren't afraid to mention if we owned a coin. And we NEVER bid on our own coins. Believe me, I was bummed out when I had to close up. Legend is too big for me to work part time.
I do not care to write a soothing memo, talk flowery, and shove the problems of this biz under the carpet. I have been a passionate collector since I was 8 and a dealer since I was 18. Ever since I held the 1913 Liberty Nickel, all I ever wanted to do in my life was be a dealer. Nothing breaks my heart more then seeing the hobby I love ruined because of greed. I can not stand seeing ANY collector being ripped off in any way. And the worst crime off all-how the coin docs RUINED coins. You bet I am angry-VERY angry.
If I have a gripe, it will always come out of me raw-the way I feel. I am not going to ever roll over or stop discussing problems I see. Let me also make this clear (it seems the chatroom weenies make things up about me), I do NOT make ANY comments for business purposes. If I want to attract new business (unlike some trolls who use chatboards for getting customers) I pay for ads! And as you well can see, I am NOT in this to win any popularity contests. I make NO appologies for wanting ALL collectors to be able to NEVER have to think twice about buying a coin.
You can email me any comments: lsperber1@hotmail.com
P.S.
What kills me the most (I think its a joke), out of all critical Hot Topics I have written and been forced to take down, never has the spineless PNG contacted me. They are totally on top of my "hit list". I have been waiting for them to contact me. Those guys are so screwed up its disgusting. I guess thats why their membership will always have a portion of dealers who are coin doctors (or bankroll them). They couldn't even rally enough members to have a meeting at FUN! My goodness, everyone else has had a go with me, they just can't do anything! Just had to comment about that. ""
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I just wish Laura wouldn't hold her punches the way she does.
She seemed fine until she came down and visited your house, what'd you feed her?
In all seriousness, I do believe Laura believes every word she types. And it just makes sense that the words would obviously back up Legend.
And as for the popularity contest, Laura rules among the crowd who just want the info and no B.S., among those easily offended she is probably right above Tom Noe...
<< <i>""No, there will not be a new piece on auctions. I am too damn angry to rewrite it.
What is amazing to me is why I get the calls and emails from the leaders in this biz and others do not. The last Hot Topic I had to pull down and rewrite was nothing as compared to a few others that are still posted! I feel like I am dealing with a "bully pulpit" mentality from the heads of everything important in this business.
In todays article about auctions, I wrote no names and tried to be general. Yet, as usual I heard from someone. Sure, what I wrote was a somewhat toxic, but hell, I have seen some serious things happen to collectors. My job is to protect my customers just as the auction companies are there to work for the consignors. I am addicted to auctions as much as much as anyone. I've probably spent as much or more than any other dealer in the past 5 years at auctions (I know the auction companies would have sorely missed my underbidding as well as my purchases). Don't think I didn't get screwed once or twice during that time. So why can't I comment on problems and tell people how to avoid them?
Yes, for the record, we did twice try to enter the auction biz. Both times I had to withdraw due to time/staffing issues-nothing else. It is NOT easy to hire people in this biz. I could not commit the time needed even when I had teamed up with Dan Morphy. I was so happy to be in auctions too. We ran clean sales. We weren't afraid to mention if we owned a coin. And we NEVER bid on our own coins. Believe me, I was bummed out when I had to close up. Legend is too big for me to work part time.
I do not care to write a soothing memo, talk flowery, and shove the problems of this biz under the carpet. I have been a passionate collector since I was 8 and a dealer since I was 18. Ever since I held the 1913 Liberty Nickel, all I ever wanted to do in my life was be a dealer. Nothing breaks my heart more then seeing the hobby I love ruined because of greed. I can not stand seeing ANY collector being ripped off in any way. And the worst crime off all-how the coin docs RUINED coins. You bet I am angry-VERY angry.
If I have a gripe, it will always come out of me raw-the way I feel. I am not going to ever roll over or stop discussing problems I see. Let me also make this clear (it seems the chatroom weenies make things up about me), I do NOT make ANY comments for business purposes. If I want to attract new business (unlike some trolls who use chatboards for getting customers) I pay for ads! And as you well can see, I am NOT in this to win any popularity contests. I make NO appologies for wanting ALL collectors to be able to NEVER have to think twice about buying a coin.
You can email me any comments: lsperber1@hotmail.com
P.S.
What kills me the most (I think its a joke), out of all critical Hot Topics I have written and been forced to take down, never has the spineless PNG contacted me. They are totally on top of my "hit list". I have been waiting for them to contact me. Those guys are so screwed up its disgusting. I guess thats why their membership will always have a portion of dealers who are coin doctors (or bankroll them). They couldn't even rally enough members to have a meeting at FUN! My goodness, everyone else has had a go with me, they just can't do anything! Just had to comment about that. "" >>
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OK, who posted this thread? It is clear who wrote it but the poster ID is not from who you would think it should be from? Is this an ALT???
<< <i>
<< <i>I just wish Laura wouldn't hold her punches the way she does.
She seemed fine until she came down and visited your house, what'd you feed her?
In all seriousness, I do believe Laura believes every word she types. And it just makes sense that the words would obviously back up Legend.
And as for the popularity contest, Laura rules among the crowd who just want the info and no B.S., among those easily offended she is probably right above Tom Noe... >>
She wouldn't touch the chicken & sausage gumbo, though George hammered two big bowls full.
<< <i>
<< <i>""No, there will not be a new piece on auctions. I am too damn angry to rewrite it.
What is amazing to me is why I get the calls and emails from the leaders in this biz and others do not. The last Hot Topic I had to pull down and rewrite was nothing as compared to a few others that are still posted! I feel like I am dealing with a "bully pulpit" mentality from the heads of everything important in this business.
In todays article about auctions, I wrote no names and tried to be general. Yet, as usual I heard from someone. Sure, what I wrote was a somewhat toxic, but hell, I have seen some serious things happen to collectors. My job is to protect my customers just as the auction companies are there to work for the consignors. I am addicted to auctions as much as much as anyone. I've probably spent as much or more than any other dealer in the past 5 years at auctions (I know the auction companies would have sorely missed my underbidding as well as my purchases). Don't think I didn't get screwed once or twice during that time. So why can't I comment on problems and tell people how to avoid them?
Yes, for the record, we did twice try to enter the auction biz. Both times I had to withdraw due to time/staffing issues-nothing else. It is NOT easy to hire people in this biz. I could not commit the time needed even when I had teamed up with Dan Morphy. I was so happy to be in auctions too. We ran clean sales. We weren't afraid to mention if we owned a coin. And we NEVER bid on our own coins. Believe me, I was bummed out when I had to close up. Legend is too big for me to work part time.
I do not care to write a soothing memo, talk flowery, and shove the problems of this biz under the carpet. I have been a passionate collector since I was 8 and a dealer since I was 18. Ever since I held the 1913 Liberty Nickel, all I ever wanted to do in my life was be a dealer. Nothing breaks my heart more then seeing the hobby I love ruined because of greed. I can not stand seeing ANY collector being ripped off in any way. And the worst crime off all-how the coin docs RUINED coins. You bet I am angry-VERY angry.
If I have a gripe, it will always come out of me raw-the way I feel. I am not going to ever roll over or stop discussing problems I see. Let me also make this clear (it seems the chatroom weenies make things up about me), I do NOT make ANY comments for business purposes. If I want to attract new business (unlike some trolls who use chatboards for getting customers) I pay for ads! And as you well can see, I am NOT in this to win any popularity contests. I make NO appologies for wanting ALL collectors to be able to NEVER have to think twice about buying a coin.
You can email me any comments: lsperber1@hotmail.com
P.S.
What kills me the most (I think its a joke), out of all critical Hot Topics I have written and been forced to take down, never has the spineless PNG contacted me. They are totally on top of my "hit list". I have been waiting for them to contact me. Those guys are so screwed up its disgusting. I guess thats why their membership will always have a portion of dealers who are coin doctors (or bankroll them). They couldn't even rally enough members to have a meeting at FUN! My goodness, everyone else has had a go with me, they just can't do anything! Just had to comment about that. "" >>
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OK, who posted this thread? It is clear who wrote it but the poster ID is not from who you would think it should be from? Is this an ALT??? >>
There is no alt involved. Legend's website article was merely quoted. You can find it here on their site
Interesting, censured or asked to stand down by the leading TPG and a leading auction house on articles she penned on her site.
When Laura speaks/writes people do pay attention................MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
As a general proposition, I think that it is very important for collectors to acquire a reasonable amount of knowledge concerning the business aspects of numismatics--this includes how coins are priced, venues for selling, grading by third parties, what dealers look for in buying coins for stock (and what they might pay, given varying circumstances), etc. Lots of collectors end up losing money, even when they acquire 'good' coins, because they don't adequately understand the coin biz.
Laura's written musings/rants, in my opinion, have been well worth reading. I only wish that more dealers would be as forthcoming.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>Laura's written musings/rants, in my opinion, have been well worth reading. I only wish that more dealers would be as forthcoming. >>
Information and experience is key to buying and selling coins, in any venue. And no, Laura is not against an auction house selling coins. She is upset about the lack of transparency that may occur, at some auction companies.
If you have not viewed a coin( worth more than a minimum amount) and/or do not have an expert rep there to do so, don't buy it!
<< <i>As a general proposition, I think that it is very important for collectors to acquire a reasonable amount of knowledge concerning the business aspects of numismatics--this includes how coins are priced, venues for selling, grading by third parties, what dealers look for in buying coins for stock (and what they might pay, given varying circumstances), etc. Lots of collectors end up losing money, even when they acquire 'good' coins, because they don't adequately understand the coin biz. >>
Excellent advice, excellent.
1) If you can't see the coin yourself, have someone who knows how to grade, whom you trust ,see it. Anyone who bids on a coin sight unseen -- and buying a coin strictly from an image is buying sight unseen -- is walking a highwire without a safety net.
2) Know how to gradethe coin on which you bid. Know where the auction coin is on the continuum of the grade on the holder.
3) Set a max bid for a coin and stick to it. A really great way to get buried in a coin is to get into a pi**ing contest with another bidder.
4) Unless you're a Stewart Blay, Tahoe Dale, TDN, etc., if you don't get this particular coin, another one just like it will become available soon enough.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I like her rants, i just wish she would stick to her guns on the thoughts.
What she post in the future????? Will it be her REAL THOUGHTS or the polictically correct version??
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>I wonder what PCGS and HERITAGE said to make her back down SO FAST? For all those that claim she tells it like it is, why is she so fast to back down? Looks like the collector is not coming first for her anymore.
I like her rants, i just wish she would stick to her guns on the thoughts.
What she post in the future????? Will it be her REAL THOUGHTS or the polictically correct version?? >>
Even if her future website posts are watered down, they are likely to contain nuggets of useful information that many collectors don't already know.
As far as sticking to her guns is concerned, she has gone public on numerous occasions when other dealers kept silent. Remember her position as a
principal in a high-profile numismatic firm---companies like Legend cannot stay in business if they antagonize too many others in the business, particularly
TPGs, auction houses, other dealers.
There are aspects of the numismatic business that are very dirty. At least she has not looked the other way and kept silent.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>I wonder what PCGS and HERITAGE said to make her back down SO FAST? For all those that claim she tells it like it is, why is she so fast to back down? Looks like the collector is not coming first for her anymore.
I like her rants, i just wish she would stick to her guns on the thoughts.
What she post in the future????? Will it be her REAL THOUGHTS or the polictically correct version?? >>
Maybe the fact that Legend's advertising venues contain both of the afore mentioned. For what it's worth I may not always agree with Laura's thoughts and speculation however she does make some very valid points and always stimulates thoughts and awareness concerning this very passionate hobby. Keep those thoughts penned and expressed Laura.
BTW, I have never purchased a coin from Legend nor have I sold any to them so I am just an outsider sharing my observations.
Have a wonderful evening/morning all!
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
She is the best thing collectors have and when she has to back down we as a whole lose.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Camelot
This does not mean that Laura would be
<< <i>writing a soothing memo, talk flowery, and shove the problems of this biz under the carpet. >>
On the contrary, her previous comments would have stayed up and everyone would still be reading the lessons that should be learned since they would have blended in with the other comments.
As a clothing store in NJ always stated: "An educated consumer is our best customer."
thanks oreville
<< <i>I didn't see Laura's original Hot topic but there is one aspect of the auction business that bothers me to no end: that auction houses can bid on lots in their auctions for their own accounts, all the while knowing the maximum bids of their bidders in the "book" (whether submitted by email, mail, fax, phone or internet). It is an unfair advantage and should outlawed. >>
She commented on this very point (internal shill bidding to run up real bids) in her original post.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Specifically relating to auctions, Legend might feel that consignors are not getting a fair shake, but my dealer is seeing "better deals" on the floor when they used to be at the auctions. If that's true then wouldn't consignors being doing better than selling to a dealer? Hypothetical question as I'm sure it depends on the coin.
<< <i>
<< <i>I didn't see Laura's original Hot topic but there is one aspect of the auction business that bothers me to no end: that auction houses can bid on lots in their auctions for their own accounts, all the while knowing the maximum bids of their bidders in the "book" (whether submitted by email, mail, fax, phone or internet). It is an unfair advantage and should outlawed. >>
She commented on this very point (internal shill bidding to run up real bids) in her original post. >>
I wasn't referring to internal shill bidding to run up real bids, but rather the practice where the auction company buys the lots for their own account. Consider the following hypothetical scenario:
A lot is generally considered worth $10,000. The highest book bid is $7500. For whatever reason, no-one on the floor bids over $5000. The auction company bids $8000 for their own account and wins the lot. The auction company has inside information, that is, they know the highest book bid. This information is not disclosed to other potential bidders, and constitutes an unfair advantage (let alone the fact that they don't have to pay the buyer's fee on lots they win).
The auction companies also are privy to inside information not disclosed to other bidders, such as how much a consignor's reserve is, certain facts pertaining to the history or provenance of the lot in question (such as whether the coin has been tried for an upgrade at a TPG, etc).
For all these reasons, I believe auction companies should be prohibited from bidding on lots in their own sales.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I didn't see Laura's original Hot topic but there is one aspect of the auction business that bothers me to no end: that auction houses can bid on lots in their auctions for their own accounts, all the while knowing the maximum bids of their bidders in the "book" (whether submitted by email, mail, fax, phone or internet). It is an unfair advantage and should outlawed. >>
She commented on this very point (internal shill bidding to run up real bids) in her original post. >>
I wasn't referring to internal shill bidding to run up real bids, but rather the practice where the auction company buys the lots for their own account. Consider the following hypothetical scenario:
A lot is generally considered worth $10,000. The highest book bid is $7500. For whatever reason, no-one on the floor bids over $5000. The auction company bids $8000 for their own account and wins the lot. The auction company has inside information, that is, they know the highest book bid. This information is not disclosed to other potential bidders, and constitutes an unfair advantage (let alone the fact that they don't have to pay the buyer's fee on lots they win).
The auction companies also are privy to inside information not disclosed to other bidders, such as how much a consignor's reserve is, certain facts pertaining to the history or provenance of the lot in question (such as whether the coin has been tried for an upgrade at a TPG, etc).
For all these reasons, I believe auction companies should be prohibited from bidding on lots in their own sales. >>
She commented on the 'buying in' practice as well.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
What consignor wouldn't want the highest bidder to participate in the auction? In the previous example cited, what if no one bid more than the $5000 that the $7500 bidder was high bidder on and the item sells for $5000. IMHO, it is a plus for consignors.
I am pretty sure that the largest US auction house has several bidders that bid on coins in their auctions. I do not believe that they are privy to the highest bid that has been received. They are privy to the highest bid that has been executed to that time, just like any other internet bidder does. Please correct me if you know that I am in error, not if you suspect it, but KNOW it.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I didn't see Laura's original Hot topic but there is one aspect of the auction business that bothers me to no end: that auction houses can bid on lots in their auctions for their own accounts, all the while knowing the maximum bids of their bidders in the "book" (whether submitted by email, mail, fax, phone or internet). It is an unfair advantage and should outlawed. >>
She commented on this very point (internal shill bidding to run up real bids) in her original post. >>
I wasn't referring to internal shill bidding to run up real bids, but rather the practice where the auction company buys the lots for their own account. Consider the following hypothetical scenario:
A lot is generally considered worth $10,000. The highest book bid is $7500. For whatever reason, no-one on the floor bids over $5000. The auction company bids $8000 for their own account and wins the lot. The auction company has inside information, that is, they know the highest book bid. This information is not disclosed to other potential bidders, and constitutes an unfair advantage (let alone the fact that they don't have to pay the buyer's fee on lots they win).
The auction companies also are privy to inside information not disclosed to other bidders, such as how much a consignor's reserve is, certain facts pertaining to the history or provenance of the lot in question (such as whether the coin has been tried for an upgrade at a TPG, etc).
For all these reasons, I believe auction companies should be prohibited from bidding on lots in their own sales. >>
Even if all of the above is true - and I think one major auction house has stated that they place their bids before consignor reserves are posted and don't change them afterwards - it is still better for the consignor if the house bids. And the primary responsibility is owed to the consignor.
Granted, it might be a bad deal for other bidders if the house bids in its own sales, but it is better for the consignor.
Of course every auction house knows who is bidding how much on what lot. I won't name companies but more than once I've had someone come up and say "it will take this to buy the lot". On occasion as a consignor, I have been told by an auction house they know the bidder and how high he is willing to go.
Every major auction comany in the world knows this information. Its a matter of how much sneakiness they can get away with. Text Text
<< <i>What consignor wouldn't want the highest bidder to participate in the auction? In the previous example cited, what if no one bid more than the $5000 that the $7500 bidder was high bidder on and the item sells for $5000. IMHO, it is a plus for consignors. >>
If the bid meet the consignor's reserve, the auction house has not business bidding on the lot PERIOD. If they bid on it, that's unethical.
One of the reasons why I hate auctions is that I've felt that I've been pushed by the auction house on-line to bid more after I posted a "secret bid" that was well in advance of the current bid showing. Instead of bidding more, I've come to the conclusion that I shouldn't have bid at all because I’m being duped by the auction house.
<< <i>
<< <i>What consignor wouldn't want the highest bidder to participate in the auction? In the previous example cited, what if no one bid more than the $5000 that the $7500 bidder was high bidder on and the item sells for $5000. IMHO, it is a plus for consignors. >>
If the bid meet the consignor's reserve, the auction house has not business bidding on the lot PERIOD. If they bid on it, that's unethical.
One of the reasons why I hate auctions is that I've felt that I've been pushed by the auction house on-line to bid more after I posted a "secret bid" that was well in advance of the current bid showing. Instead of bidding more, I've come to the conclusion that I shouldn't have bid at all because I’m being duped by the auction house. >>
I don't understand why you think a house bid would be unethical if the reserve has been met (and/but not if it hasn't been met?).
I frequently place strong on-line bids with 3 major auction houses and have never felt like my bids were being pushed unfairly or that I was being duped. When I bid way too much, I often buy the item for considerably below my maximum bid.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What consignor wouldn't want the highest bidder to participate in the auction? In the previous example cited, what if no one bid more than the $5000 that the $7500 bidder was high bidder on and the item sells for $5000. IMHO, it is a plus for consignors. >>
If the bid meet the consignor's reserve, the auction house has not business bidding on the lot PERIOD. If they bid on it, that's unethical.
One of the reasons why I hate auctions is that I've felt that I've been pushed by the auction house on-line to bid more after I posted a "secret bid" that was well in advance of the current bid showing. Instead of bidding more, I've come to the conclusion that I shouldn't have bid at all because I’m being duped by the auction house. >>
I don't understand why you think a house bid would be unethical if the reserve has been met (and/but not if it hasn't been met?).
I frequently place strong on-line bids with 3 major auction houses and have never felt like my bids were being pushed unfairly or that I was being duped. When I bid way too much, I often buy the item for considerably below my maximum bid. >>
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
I feel like I'm getting hosed. Why should my record bids for the grade get topped for a coin that barely makes the grade? Why is it in this market that all time high bids get topped every time I bid?
<< <i>Recently I have placed on-line bids at a major auction house that were equal to or higher than the all time previous winning bids for the same issue of a coin in the same grade. Each time my bid was exceeded. In one instance the computer on-line bid offered to me was less than the normal increment at that bid level. I bid and won the coin. The coin turned out to be a "B minis" for the grade according a major grading authority.
I feel like I'm getting hosed. Why should my record bids for the grade get topped for a coin that barely makes the grade? Why is it in this market that all time high bids get topped every time I bid? >>
It sounds like you got outbid in every instance but one, not "hosed". Maybe other bidders thought the coins were better and/or worth more than you did. Base don your own words, it sounds like you are making a giant leap in your accusations.
<< <i>
<< <i>Recently I have placed on-line bids at a major auction house that were equal to or higher than the all time previous winning bids for the same issue of a coin in the same grade. Each time my bid was exceeded. In one instance the computer on-line bid offered to me was less than the normal increment at that bid level. I bid and won the coin. The coin turned out to be a "B minis" for the grade according a major grading authority.
I feel like I'm getting hosed. Why should my record bids for the grade get topped for a coin that barely makes the grade? Why is it in this market that all time high bids get topped every time I bid? >>
It sounds like you got outbid in every instance but one, not "hosed". Maybe other bidders thought the coins were better and/or worth more than you did. Base don your own words, it sounds like you are making a giant leap in your accusations. >>
Why did the auction house allow me to bid at increment that was less than their stated amount?
<< <i>Why did the auction house allow me to bid at increment that was less than their stated amount? >>
Usually this happens when someone bids a max that is in-between bid increments. Say, for instance, someone bids $10299 as a max, but the increment is what, $500 at that level? So you go and place a bid for $10,000, and the bid pops up at $10299. You can then place another bid (say, for $11K) and it will come in at $10500.
Empty Nest Collection
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<< <i>Why did the auction house allow me to bid at increment that was less than their stated amount? >>
Usually this happens when someone bids a max that is in-between bid increments. Say, for instance, someone bids $10299 as a max, but the increment is what, $500 at that level? So you go and place a bid for $10,000, and the bid pops up at $10299. You can then place another bid (say, for $11K) and it will come in at $10500. >>
Or, in some cases, perhaps to be able to meet a reserve.
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<< <i>What consignor wouldn't want the highest bidder to participate in the auction? In the previous example cited, what if no one bid more than the $5000 that the $7500 bidder was high bidder on and the item sells for $5000. IMHO, it is a plus for consignors. >>
If the bid meet the consignor's reserve, the auction house has not business bidding on the lot PERIOD. If they bid on it, that's unethical.
One of the reasons why I hate auctions is that I've felt that I've been pushed by the auction house on-line to bid more after I posted a "secret bid" that was well in advance of the current bid showing. Instead of bidding more, I've come to the conclusion that I shouldn't have bid at all because I’m being duped by the auction house. >>
Alright, we will agree to disagree over whether or not I’ve been getting hosed.
Let's bet back to the basics. If the bidders have reached the consignor's minimum, and the high bidder has a maximum of $7.500 over a $5,000 minimum why is it ethical for the auction company to raise the bid knowing full well what the maximum bid is? Why is it ethical for the auction company to bid at all, even if they don't know the maximum? (You have to be Polly Anna to believe that they don’t know the high bid.) The auction company gets higher commissions from a higher selling price. How is it ethical for them to bid given that fact?
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<< <i>What consignor wouldn't want the highest bidder to participate in the auction? In the previous example cited, what if no one bid more than the $5000 that the $7500 bidder was high bidder on and the item sells for $5000. IMHO, it is a plus for consignors. >>
If the bid meet the consignor's reserve, the auction house has not business bidding on the lot PERIOD. If they bid on it, that's unethical.
One of the reasons why I hate auctions is that I've felt that I've been pushed by the auction house on-line to bid more after I posted a "secret bid" that was well in advance of the current bid showing. Instead of bidding more, I've come to the conclusion that I shouldn't have bid at all because I’m being duped by the auction house. >>
Alright, we will agree to disagree over whether or not I’ve been getting hosed.
Let's bet back to the basics. If the bidders have reached the consignor's minimum, and the high bidder has a maximum of $7.500 over a $5,000 minimum why is it ethical for the auction company to raise the bid knowing full well what the maximum bid is? Why is it ethical for the auction company to bid at all, even if they don't know the maximum? (You have to be Polly Anna to believe that they don’t know the high bid.) The auction company gets higher commissions from a higher selling price. How is it ethical for them to bid given that fact? >>
If the auction house knows what the high bid is and bids an amount less than that, in order to raise the bid (and thus earn additional commission, etc.), I think that would be unethical. But I don't believe that is done as often as you seem to think.