How much scrap silver do you have to gather up to have a refinery melt it down for you? "AKA TH

BigE

I know all you have to do is basically take any amount in and sell it, but what if you wanted bars made out of it with your custom stamp on them. It would be great to create a CU Forum Bar by everyone pitching in 10 ounces to each get a special 10 ounce bar back imprinted by the refinery with a special CU logo---------BigE




edited to change title

bestmr

Huh, interesting idea...I have no clue but I'm sure someone can answer that.

BigE

We could all get rid of our cull coins and maybe even foreign coins or sterling. Bet I got 10 ounces laying around in my desk.--------BigE

cohodk

Thats a neat idea. Count me in if anyone wants to pursue it.

GullibleNewb

I want a picture of Weiss on mine. He's hot.

BigE

I PM'd refinerychic to get some input-----------BigE

Weiss

<< <i>I want a picture of Weiss on mine. He's hot. >>



I'm not a religion. I'm just a man.

tincup

Neat idea... I would be interested.

Weiss

But count me in.

gdavis70

Sounds cool.... I'm in.

cartermurph

I'm in, sounds like a great idea.

RGJohn

Cool idea for sure but wouldn't everybody have to kick in say, 11 or 12 ounces?
There would be refining, fabrication, and shipping costs.
Irregular feedstock, such as the variety of foreign coins suggested might present additional problems. Some places won't take them at all.
Perhaps your refinery friend will explain these questions for us.

laserart

you can choose a refinery here,

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/refining-precious-metal-66890203-1.html

Tomohawk

I'd love a bar or two...I'd probably have to give good silver (ASE), but it'd be worth it to me...kinda like a Certificate of Coin/Bullion Collecting...

Hey, a new marketable item, perhaps? Maybe we could sell the idea to PCGS?

tincup

However.... may have to be aware of trademark infringement. May need permission from PCGS, or you would have to avoid using any of their names, etc.

JimDepot

Sounds interesting, I have some 1oz .999 rounds.

How about a fish on the bar and someone could get a doctor to tone the fish blue.

refinerychic

I like your idea! A unique CU 10 oz Ag bar, cool. We could help out with this soon. As of now our gold ingots are stamped, so they come out in high definition, clean and professional; stamped and sealed with a serial number. the quality of what you are looking for. Right now our silver bars are poured and don't have that same finished look, you can see all the products I am referring to here:

RMC products

However, we are right now, as we speak, working on some exciting developments on the retail side, we have Good London Delivery (GLD) status pending for our gold products, so our hallmark will soon be internationally recognized like JM or Pamp Suisse, and we are purchasing some new high quality machinery as well to produce stamped silver bars and rounds. So over the next couple weeks I will be able to give you a reasonable cost to produce a customized silver bar. I really like this idea, I think I can see about working out some sort of CU discount.


Thank you for thinking of us for this!

OPA

Great idea .... I'm in ...

secondrepublic

ditto, count me in

bestmr

Sounds so sweet if we can get this to work. I'm in!

BigE

Thanks refinerychic. The members seem to like this idea, and your help/ideas are greatly appreciated. Lets get going with this idea guys, so we can have all he details set so we are ready to go. Decisions need to be made on what type of items to accept for melting(I think these should kept as simple as possible). Also, it is true that extra amounts should be sent in for shipping etc, so for people who are really stingy it would be better if they stay away. Maybe keep the limit to 100 10 ounce bars, and we could always do another run later. ************I WOULD PREFER TO ONLY BE A MINOR PARTICIPANT FROM HERE ON OUT, SO OTHERS PLEASE TAKE THE IDEA AND RUN WITH IT!******Anyway, thats a quick 2 cents worth
-----------------BigE


PS, maybe I could have the number 1 bar for getting the ball rolling

bestmr

Here's a questions for you silver experts. I'd be willing to chip in for a bar but I'd rather not melt the 90% I have if possible. How much sterling would I need in order to get 10oz?

Weiss

<< <i>Here's a questions for you silver experts. I'd be willing to chip in for a bar but I'd rather not melt the 90% I have if possible. How much sterling would I need in order to get 10oz? >>



bestmr, I wouldn't melt 90% either. If you are sure you've got "sterling", which is 92.5% pure, and we're looking for .999 pure, the math for 10 ounces should be pretty simple.

And BigE, I appreciate your enthusiasm. But we actually discussed this very idea many months ago. Smotis even offered to front the ounceage to get the ball rolling:

Origins of a PM forum bar/round

bestmr

Thanks Weiss! I'm sure I could have Googled that but hey, that what the forums and knowledgeable people are for. Now I just have to go get some misc sterling silver.

BigE

Looks to me like that old post was more of a discussion of design of an ounce coin rather than melting undesirable silver into a simpler bar-------BigE

BigE

bestmr, thats why I said in the other post it would be good to have a weighmaster who could answer purity questions such as yours, I dont know the answer off-hand either. Foreign silver coins that have no numis. value would be good to get rid of too-------BigE

refinerychic

Hi All,

I have an update on pricing for the CU silver bar concept: we have the equipment in place, here is some preliminary pricing, I say preliminary because it is always somewhat a function of volume, but for planning purposes, we can create the "CU" die from your design for $500, and then there are some different options for the bars: we can produce 1 oz silver bars for $0.75/oz over spot. For $1 over spot we can produce the bars, have them sealed nicely in the clamshell with serial numbers, and ship them to you, wherever you may be located. As for the silver that would be refined, we can do a 95% accountabililty on content, so that 95% of the silver you send will go toward the bars, 5% will cover the cost of refining. Or you can buy the silver from us for the bars at a small percentage over spot, I can update you with that cost if anyone is interested, I think most people wanted to put their own scrap silver towards the bars. How do these figures strike everybody? If we can stir up enough interest there may be some room for further discount.

keepdachange

very cool, I'm in

calleocho

would there be a difference between a bar and a round?

gdavis70

1 ounce bars? I thought the idea was for 10oz bars no?

Weiss

Off the top of my head (please check my math):

If we have 500 produced, it will cost approximately $.90 (approximate loss of silver @ 95% "accountability") plus $1 ($500 set up fee/500 pieces) plus $.75 per ounce (per-ounce charge).

So that's spot plus $2.65--unless we do fewer than 500 pieces, we go with the clamshell option, or the price of silver goes higher. Then it could be spot + $3 or more. If more than 500 pieces and silver drops in price we could go lower.

I'm not saying no: I don't expect it to be done for nothing. And I'm sure that 500 units is a small run. I'm just saying $2.65 is a pretty hefty premium.

I too would be interested to find out if 10 oz bars would be any cheaper.

BigE

A 10 ounce bar with a stamp on it like below would work------BigE

BigE

I suggest something simple, like this


10 ouncer




Hope its OK touse this pic------BigE

calleocho

3 bucks premium sounds reasonable to me.

I would like serial numbers tough ...and a cool logo

slantycouch

$3 seems very fair to me for a small run and the "specialty" nature of this project.

I think serials would add a nice dimension.

tincup

If everyone is to chip in their own silver to make this happen.... there will also be quite a bit of shipping charges. And someone would have to accumulate the amount, keep track of who contributed how much, etc., and be the contact for the refinery end. Also, the final product will need to be shipped to each individual participant. Shipping will add to the before mentioned charges and contribute to the final cost above spot. For that reason.... it may be more advisable to contribute the money instead, and purchase the silver from the refinery as refinerychic mentioned. A purchased 1000 ounce bar would be cost effective in regards to cost above melt.

I'm still interested. But remains to be seen whether the economics and logistics can be worked out. Also, I still question the copyright issue to whatever wording or design may be placed on the bars/rounds. for instance, Collectors Universe is surely the property of PCGS. Either need permission.... or be very careful so there is no infringement.

secondrepublic

$3/oz over is OK with me. I would also prefer a 10 oz. bar. Easiest for me would be to just send in a check/money order to pay for it.

OPA

<< <i>$3/oz over is OK with me. I would also prefer a 10 oz. bar. Easiest for me would be to just send in a check/money order to pay for it. >>



I'll go along with the above scenario.

mercurynut

This sounds like a fun idea. Count me in if it comes to pass.

Garneteye

<< <i>3/oz over is OK with me. I would also prefer a 10 oz. bar. Easiest for me would be to just send in a check/money order to pay for it. >>



I would be in for 1 bar if it gets going.

Dan

OffMetal

This sounds fun!

Can I be counted as a "maybe" depending on the size of the bar and the type of payment (cash/scrap)?

Thanks,
Ben

BigE

Next step could be deciding on the design and markings to have on the bar. Then get approval from the powers at be as stated by tincup. Should we start another post about it or do this here. What do you guys think?---------BigE

refinerychic

Off the top of my head (please check my math):

If we have 500 produced, it will cost approximately $.90 (approximate loss of silver @ 95% "accountability") plus $1 ($500 set up fee/500 pieces) plus $.75 per ounce (per-ounce charge).

So that's spot plus $2.65--unless we do fewer than 500 pieces, we go with the clamshell option, or the price of silver goes higher. Then it could be spot + $3 or more. If more than 500 pieces and silver drops in price we could go lower.

I'm not saying no: I don't expect it to be done for nothing. And I'm sure that 500 units is a small run. I'm just saying $2.65 is a pretty hefty premium.

I too would be interested to find out if 10 oz bars would be any cheaper.

That is about right. If we refine your silver, and silver is $18/oz, 5% or about $0.90/oz would go to the cost of refining. If you want us to provide silver for the bars, the cost is $0.50/oz over spot. If you order at least 2000 oz of silver it drops to $0.35/oz over. The die costs $500 (one time fee) to create, so if 500 bars were produced it would work out to $1 each, but once the die is cast it can be used indefinitely. The $0.75/oz fabrication of the bars applies to 1 oz or 10 oz silver bars, same with $1/oz to include clamshell, serial # and delivery. If we can get an idea how many oz will be produced, I can get some firm pricing.

Now I am just brainstorming..... if you send your gold scrap for refining (at 98.5% accountability on lots under 100 oz) we could always pay you in these silver bars. If some of you would like to try us out on your gold refining, and let's say at least 100 oz total were refined with us, I could probably persuade our owners to lower the price at least $0.10/oz in consideration of all the new business. This last part is just an idea, don't think this is all a trick to get your gold!!!! I am just trying to invent ways that you can help me to help you to get the best pricing.

tincup

refinerychic, are serial numbers feasible?

Since a die would be used, would a basic bar first be stamped out as a blank, then the die used to imprint a design?

tydye

I would buy at least one

Stew

Just a thought that popped in the head while reading this thread.
(Very Cool Idea by the way)
Maybe contacting David Hall or some one else in marketing at PCGS
Maybe they would be up for going in on this. (Possibly cover the cost of the Die)
It is advertising their site in a very positive and tangible way.
Just an Idea

Edited to add:when there is a CU Silver with a cool CU Logo I will definitely be adding some of them to my collection.
I love the CU forum and the vast amount of good people on here.
Terry

OPA

<< <i>Just a thought that popped in the head while reading this thread.
(Very Cool Idea by the way)
Maybe contacting David Hall or some one else in marketing at PCGS
Maybe they would be up for going in on this. (Possibly cover the cost of the Die)
It is advertising their site in a very positive and tangible way.
Just an Idea

Edited to add:when there is a CU Silver with a cool CU Logo I will definitely be adding some of them to my collection.
I love the CU forum and the vast amount of good people on here.
Terry >>



I like that idea, PCGS can then offer the bar for sale to CU members through it's "store." I would definitely buy some.

keepdachange

<< <i>Just a thought that popped in the head while reading this thread.
(Very Cool Idea by the way)
Maybe contacting David Hall or some one else in marketing at PCGS
Maybe they would be up for going in on this. (Possibly cover the cost of the Die)
It is advertising their site in a very positive and tangible way.
Just an Idea

Edited to add:when there is a CU Silver with a cool CU Logo I will definitely be adding some of them to my collection.
I love the CU forum and the vast amount of good people on here.
Terry >>



Can they put a + on it

Great idea by the way. If they are not game we could just come up with some designs that we all post and then take a vote on which one to use

Stew

Can they put a + on it

gecko109

I got dibs on the cancelled die when production is finished!!!

refinerychic

You guys are funny!! It would be great if PCGS wanted to market the bars, with a volume that high the pricing could get even better. As for tincup's questions, yes and yes. Yes, we can do serial numbers and yes it is a blank bar that would be stamped with the die. I see someone has already claimed the die when the run is over....