Things about coin collectors that bug me
SeaEagleCoins
Posts: 3,262 ✭
First and foremost --- All these threads that pop up in many variations to gripe about some caricature concept of the evil, smelly and rude coin dealers 
Hey... a few of my very good friends happen to be coin dealers... there are a few nice ones in this world...
Same goes for coin collectors... I know a few and even like a good number of them 
Yet it would be a real eye opener if coin collectors could experience the "business" of coins from the dealers perspective... some coin collectors can be real pieces of work, to say the least...
Example --- person spends a half hour looking for "the perfect coin"... finds one... then does their best to talk it down to bid or close to it... THEN, after they get a very nice price, turn around and pull out some of their "reject" coins and expect the dealer to happily trade for these problem coins AT EVEN MONEY.... sorry... I won't tell ya what to do with a rope but we will not have a deal and I will be at least a bit peeved by all the wasted time...
Example --- During the busiest time of the show, the "very knowledeable collector" who once bought a coin from you about three years ago (after taking several hours, four shows and three phone calls to decide to pull the trigger and now thinks they "own" you ... yes I exaggerate a little) just has to tell you ALL ABOUT the finer variations of die charcteristics of the 1838 dime in regards to the date/dentil locations and the reeding marks and how they vary from the 1842 variety such and such and how the die crack on his 1852 or whatever quarter is so cool and has not been seen as far as he knows and did I show you the recent half dollar that I bought from so and so and I'm really wondering if I should consider a coin in an ANACS holder and PCGS is the best (but he has rejected at least 50 PCGS coins over the past year... that you know of ).... yada yada yada and my face is about to crack from the forced smile and I can see numerous potential coin buyers just walking by so as to not interrupt this numismatically important moment... get the idea????
Folks... busy coin shows are primarily mini-marathons for coin business to take place... a small window of opportunity... coin CLUBS, on the other hand, can be places to discuss the finer points of numismatics... or maybe coin forums such as this one...
Example --- The collector with four loupes... a pile of disarrayed paperwork (with the obligatory grey sheet from last year)... who wants to look thru ALL your wares and just HAS TO spread everything in every direction and then "discovers" the most amazing coin in your junk box that he examines feverishly for what seems an eternity and wants to ask "what is that spot behind Liberty's head....is that toning or corrosion?... and you look at the coin marked $5 and say "it is a spot" ... and they ask if you can sell it for $3... and all the while you have tried to figure out a way to ask them to kindly "find a rope"
...but have restrained yourself for fear of ending up the butt of some forum thread complaining about rude dealers... and many more potential "customers" have walked on by...
Example --- Folks who grade with 10x or higher magnification (and of course, never find anything they like)
Example --- Folks who call PCGS "pgc" or some variation... but insist they only like that company and then reject 100 PCGS coins as over-graded, because they expect a 65 label to have a 67 coin in it... or something...
Final example (for now ) --- No matter how many examples of any given coin I may have at any given time at any given show... I will not have the date and/or grade and/or "look" that the collector is looking for... "Have you got any NGC 1883-CC Morgans?" "Why yes... I have these four examples... a 62, a 63PL, a 65 and a 65 with a sticker " ... "oh, I was looking for a 64" ... or "That is the exact coin in the exact holder at the exact grade that I was looking for... BUT... it has a small spot of toning by the date (that I can only see with my loupe) and there is that little mark on the eagles breast and on and on and on..."
Bottom line... there are some really cool people involved in this hobby... on ALL sides of the table... and there are some real pills, as well... sorta just like life... whatya know about that?
(edited to add --- Now I am going to pour myself another cup of coffee... see ya all later
)
Hey... a few of my very good friends happen to be coin dealers... there are a few nice ones in this world...Same goes for coin collectors... I know a few
and even like a good number of them Yet it would be a real eye opener if coin collectors could experience the "business" of coins from the dealers perspective... some coin collectors can be real pieces of work, to say the least...
Example --- person spends a half hour looking for "the perfect coin"... finds one... then does their best to talk it down to bid or close to it... THEN, after they get a very nice price, turn around and pull out some of their "reject" coins and expect the dealer to happily trade for these problem coins AT EVEN MONEY.... sorry... I won't tell ya what to do with a rope but we will not have a deal and I will be at least a bit peeved by all the wasted time...
Example --- During the busiest time of the show, the "very knowledeable collector" who once bought a coin from you about three years ago (after taking several hours, four shows and three phone calls to decide to pull the trigger and now thinks they "own" you ... yes I exaggerate a little) just has to tell you ALL ABOUT the finer variations of die charcteristics of the 1838 dime in regards to the date/dentil locations and the reeding marks and how they vary from the 1842 variety such and such and how the die crack on his 1852 or whatever quarter is so cool and has not been seen as far as he knows and did I show you the recent half dollar that I bought from so and so and I'm really wondering if I should consider a coin in an ANACS holder and PCGS is the best (but he has rejected at least 50 PCGS coins over the past year... that you know of
).... yada yada yada and my face is about to crack from the forced smile and I can see numerous potential coin buyers just walking by so as to not interrupt this numismatically important moment... get the idea????Folks... busy coin shows are primarily mini-marathons for coin business to take place... a small window of opportunity... coin CLUBS, on the other hand, can be places to discuss the finer points of numismatics... or maybe coin forums such as this one...
Example --- The collector with four loupes... a pile of disarrayed paperwork (with the obligatory grey sheet from last year)... who wants to look thru ALL your wares and just HAS TO spread everything in every direction and then "discovers" the most amazing coin in your junk box that he examines feverishly for what seems an eternity and wants to ask "what is that spot behind Liberty's head....is that toning or corrosion?... and you look at the coin marked $5 and say "it is a spot" ... and they ask if you can sell it for $3... and all the while you have tried to figure out a way to ask them to kindly "find a rope"
...but have restrained yourself for fear of ending up the butt of some forum thread complaining about rude dealers... and many more potential "customers" have walked on by...Example --- Folks who grade with 10x or higher magnification (and of course, never find anything they like)
Example --- Folks who call PCGS "pgc" or some variation... but insist they only like that company and then reject 100 PCGS coins as over-graded, because they expect a 65 label to have a 67 coin in it... or something...
Final example (for now
) --- No matter how many examples of any given coin I may have at any given time at any given show... I will not have the date and/or grade and/or "look" that the collector is looking for... "Have you got any NGC 1883-CC Morgans?" "Why yes... I have these four examples... a 62, a 63PL, a 65 and a 65 with a sticker " ... "oh, I was looking for a 64" ... or "That is the exact coin in the exact holder at the exact grade that I was looking for... BUT... it has a small spot of toning by the date (that I can only see with my loupe) and there is that little mark on the eagles breast and on and on and on..."Bottom line... there are some really cool people involved in this hobby... on ALL sides of the table... and there are some real pills, as well... sorta just like life... whatya know about that?
(edited to add --- Now I am going to pour myself another cup of coffee... see ya all later
) Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free 
0
Comments
Those are some amusing examples you give. No wonder you had to let it out.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Example --- Will you be setting up at the Kabul, Afghanistan, coin show in January? I'll make it worth your trip. If you bring a 1964-D MS-60BN penny, I promise I'll buy it!
I will attest that I have witnessed all this and more. Hey Larry, why not swing by today and get you a nice 4Runner so you can make the old bridge show tomorrow? 10 Back of bid for ya
Just my opinion and not worth much to anyone but me.
<< <i>As a seller/dealer I am there or list coins for sale and with that I must take what presents itself in front of me at any given time. As a buyer I do not expect you/myself as a dealer to simply be set up for one to walk up say "I will take that coin here is my money" without you/me ever having to deal with a newbie or person who hasn't the education about coins that I do. Perhaps I am far to tolerant of others but I HAVE set myself up for having to deal with the public so why should I not be?
Just my opinion and not worth much to anyone but me. >>
Japa --- I totally agree with you... I, for the most part, enjoy "dealing with" the public... and I enjoy teaching and learning... and will always go out of my way with anyone in need of help... I am a patient person and have never asked any collector to leave my table... I wish I could have more time to spend with most folks... I have asked a few so-called "wholesalers" to take a hike though
But if I were to say that every person who approaches me at a show is a pleasure to deal with... I'd be lying...
With all the threads that pop up around here slamming the "rude" and "evil" dealers, I just thought a little balance was needed...
Thankfully... the examples I posted in the OP do not represent the majority of folks... if they did, I'd be looking for another hobby...
Collectors... if you do not enjoy doing business with any particular dealer... move on... do you shop in EVERY supermarket in your town?... buy gas at EVERY station? buy clothes in every clothing store? buy Insurance from every company? etc etc
Of course not...
Just find a dealer or three (or whatever number) that you are able to find and "work" with them... it is really kind of simple
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
I make my living with rent property, i have potential renters tell me i need to replace carpet, paint a special color for them and lower the rent because they will be my best renter that i have ever had. LOL I have done rent property long enough that i can tell 99 percent of the time how it will play out meaning if they will pay on time, cause issues, need their hand held, and how long they will stay. I am sure most coin dealers can do the same with great accuracy.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
a) Consistently lowball- They think since it is sitting in inventory that I can drop the price (by as much as half) just so I can sale. This is not big lots.
b) Always believe that there coins are worth more because it is theirs.
C) posession is worth 3 points
D) sometimes shower less than the dealers
e) believe that conversations with some iconic coin dealers is some kind of epic thing-
f) Buy plastic and not the coin
Let's see, MS-63 is lower than MS-65 and certainly lower than MS-67, which should have virtually no bag marks. So what is your point?
A dealer friend of mine told me last weekend about a show he was at the previous weekend, a monthly show over near Tampa. This guy is very cordial and patient, and carries very nice original problem free collector coins, accurately graded, at fair prices (kinda like you, Larry).
Anyway, he said month after month, this same guy comes to his table, finds some $30-$40 coin, bad mouths it, talks it down, then gets a $20 bill out and waves it around, saying something like 'this is my offer, money talks, take it or leave it'. Anyway my friend 'banned' him from his table and told him he will not let him look at his coins any more, as he is just sick of his attitude.
THe one thing that really differentiates collectors and dealers is that dealers are IN business to make $$$ as a living. How you handle that your your business...no pun intended
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Obviously, bad manners and behavior occur from both sides of the table. While most dealers have been collectors at one time or another, the opposite is not always true. I really wish the "dealer bashers" would spend some time at a show just observing the behavior of collectors as well. It is certainly a two-way street, and there are undesirables on both sides of the table.
Larry L.
<< <i>Note to self....Leave 3 loupes at home from now on.
I'm gonna bring and whip out a pair of binoculars at the next show I see SeaEagleCoins at!
<< <i>Great post, Larry!
A dealer friend of mine told me last weekend about a show he was at the previous weekend, a monthly show over near Tampa. This guy is very cordial and patient, and carries very nice original problem free collector coins, accurately graded, at fair prices (kinda like you, Larry).
Anyway, he said month after month, this same guy comes to his table, finds some $30-$40 coin, bad mouths it, talks it down, then gets a $20 bill out and waves it around, saying something like 'this is my offer, money talks, take it or leave it'. Anyway my friend 'banned' him from his table and told him he will not let him look at his coins any more, as he is just sick of his attitude. >>
I have run into some collectors who aren't really collectors. Their goal is to win a transaction by getting a seller to capitulate to their terms. The coin is really secondary to the bargaining session, and they never saw a coin that they "had to have".
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Great post SeaEagle
08 Certified Corolla, 20k miles... think we were asking $14,995
"I'll give you $7500 cash right now"
Truthfully, its the uneducated buyers who are totally unrealistic that drive me nuts... No, I can't sell you a new $23k Camry for $18k, it simply isn't going to happen. No, we don't have over 20% in these cars.
Then we get the people who insist on KBB for their trades.... (KBB is not accurate at all). Had this recently. We had a used Highlander, IIRC an 06 Hybrid for $24,995 and the guy's trade was worth about $9k. He flipped out, showed us a kbb.com printout saying his car was "worth" $11k in "excellent" condition (It had been painted all down the side).
OK, no problem. KBB.com says our car is worth $29k. You pay me KBB I'll pay you KBB
It gets better. He said OK!
I said "Sir, If I sell you my car for KBB It's $29,000, and if I give you KBB for your car that's $11k for a trade difference of $18k, if I charge you market for my car fo $25k and give you market on your car of $9k, the trade difference is $16k.
"Yeah but KBB is right everyone knows that"
Ummm.... ok!
No problem sir!
One time at show a collector pictured out PCGS certified MS-64 Morgan Dollar from my case that was a somewhat better date. He asked for quote, and I give him a number that was between bid and ask on the Gray Sheet. He pulls out one of the Morgan Dollar Red Books and tells me my number is too high. When I looked at the date of the book, it was three years old (actually four years old given the delay in publishing), and the Morgan Dollar series had had a round of price increases since then. The number he was using was 20% less than "bid."
It didn't matter, though. I was trying to "over charge him," and he went off in a huff.
Without any of your "example" customers (or potential customers) you would have no business.
When dealing with the public, be prepared for anything.
If you don't like dealing with the public, or find customers irritating, then maybe this is not the right business for you.
Just saying... this is the time of year to be thankful for what you have.
My two cents...
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>Great Reading, Larry! Has anyone showed up at your table yet with a binocular microscope? >>
However, if it was a slow kind of show, I'd probably be real interested in viewing a few coins under such a "device' ...
...and I totally enjoy "talking" coins... that's why I frequent this forum and belong to two coin clubs...
...but after spending a vast amount of time to gather fresh inventory and preparing my inventory to set up at the next show... I then have a 4-5 hour window to "do business"... and I always appreciate the folks I can do business with... without "getting the business"
OTOH... if I am approached by a sincere newcomer, let's say... and they are seeking knowledge and/or guidance, they will get my FULL attention... and if it is a YN... total attention... I will ask another customer to wait while I let a YN reach into my Buffalo Bag for a few head to add to or start off their herd...
One time at the Coinfest, our own Longacre stopped by with his little "brood" and ended up leaving before I had a chance to take a few moments with them... I still feel bad about that... and I feel that any so-called seasoned collector that would be miffed by being asked to wait a moment for a YN... well, I just don't think that would be the type of person I would enjoy doing business with...
...and as for you folks with the multiple loupes...
<< <i>I'm sure this is mostly tongue in cheek, but...
Without any of your "example" customers (or potential customers) you would have no business.
When dealing with the public, be prepared for anything.
If you don't like dealing with the public, or find customers irritating, then maybe this is not the right business for you.
Just saying... this is the time of year to be thankful for what you have.
My two cents... >>
anablep... perhaps you missed another post below my OP where I kinda spoke to this...
I have and enjoy many friendships/business dealings with many good folks at shows ... and always find pleasure in it...
However, if ALL I ever had to deal with were folks described in the examples... not only would it NOT be fun... I would have a very poor business...
My perspective on the hobby and the business end is this... there is no coin that I NEED... and I do not NEED customers... I WANT certain coins and I WANT to be able to conduct business without "getting the business" ... as long as it is enjoyable... I will continue... if all that I had to deal with were grouchy curmedgeons and difficult people, I'd find another way to "spend" my time...
Luckily... there are more nice folks in this hobby than not nice... so I continue to enjoy...
But just like I can not expect to sell every coin to every person who walks up... a collector should probably not expect to be able to do business with every dealer they approach... there's more than enough to go around... so find your comfort zone and ENJOY the hobby
The only part that I want to counter is this: "once bought a coin from you about three years ago (after taking several hours, four shows and three phone calls to decide to pull the trigger". And yes, I know you admit to exaggerating a little.
When most people spend what they consider to be a lot of money on a coin, it's not a decision they take lightly - even if they have money and can afford it. As for myself, I sometimes decide to buy a coin after looking at it for only a few minutes. It can be that quick and easy. However, I can also take several days to decide if I want to buy a coin. And that usually involves several conversations with the dealer about the coin.
When it takes me a while to decide, I usually tell the dealer not to hold the coin for me. This way, if he gets an opportunity to sell it to someone else, he can do that with no hard feelings from me. Sometimes, though, if a coin is really expensive or excessively rare with "a thin market" or unusual in some other way, I will ask the dealer to hold it for a few days to let me do research and make my decision.
This is just all part of the "business".
<< <i>I think that post was very entertaining and mostly true!
The only part that I want to counter is this: "once bought a coin from you about three years ago (after taking several hours, four shows and three phone calls to decide to pull the trigger". And yes, I know you admit to exaggerating a little.
When most people spend what they consider to be a lot of money on a coin, it's not a decision they take lightly - even if they have money and can afford it. As for myself, I sometimes decide to buy a coin after looking at it for only a few minutes. It can be that quick and easy. However, I can also take several days to decide if I want to buy a coin. And that usually involves several conversations with the dealer about the coin.
When it takes me a while to decide, I usually tell the dealer not to hold the coin for me. This way, if he gets an opportunity to sell it to someone else, he can do that with no hard feelings from me. Sometimes, though, if a coin is really expensive or excessively rare with "a thin market" or unusual in some other way, I will ask the dealer to hold it for a few days to let me do research and make my decision.
This is just all part of the "business".
MLC --- the fact that someone may need extra time to make a decision is really not the problem in that example... sometimes it is prudent, if nothing else, to weigh out a decision and not act in haste...
...but to then feel as if you now have the right to monopolize my time during a very busy period at a show... to the point that I can not attend to other folks... that can be a problem... I try very hard to not be rude (or be perceived as such) ... but sometimes I really hope that some folks can "get a clue" ...
I have a good many friends/customers who stop by at each show... sometimes to look and or buy (or sell)... sometimes just to say "hi" ... or show me their latest newp...(some will even offer to watch my table so I can get away for a moment or get me a drink when I'm busy) but they seem to recognize when they might be impeding on my ability to conduct business... and graciously step aside...
<< <i>Let us not forget "the leaners." These are the ones who must put their greasy hands all over the glass of the cases, leaving enough DNA to make for a full episode of "CSI." At least it keeps Windex in business!
Obviously, bad manners and behavior occur from both sides of the table. While most dealers have been collectors at one time or another, the opposite is not always true. I really wish the "dealer bashers" would spend some time at a show just observing the behavior of collectors as well. It is certainly a two-way street, and there are undesirables on both sides of the table.
Larry L.
Of course this occurs after eating a greasy cheeseburger and fries.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all.
Eat plenty of sweet stuff and be thankful you have them.
JT
PS: I have all my collections filled with coins which I don't feel a need to upgrade.
Therefore, you won't have me to deal with in the future.
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Not that I get out to shows or travel much anymore, but I don't see how the "traveling circuit"-dealers do it, the time on the road, in hotels, bad food, odd hours, away from the casa, etc. >>
You keep the "grind" trips to bad places as short as possible and you take an extra day or two to sightsee and forget about coins when you take a trip to the more interesting places. That's one thing I do and it works wonders.
At a major show such as ANA, FUN or even Long Beach, a lot of dealers will complain about how many days too long their trip is. You ask them when they got into town and they tell you four days before the show. Translation? They showed up three days too early so obviously their trip is much longer than it should have been.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>At a major show such as ANA, FUN or even Long Beach, a lot of dealers will complain about how many days too long their trip is. You ask them when they got into town and they tell you four days before the show. Translation? They showed up three days too early so obviously their trip is much longer than it should have been. >>
I think the actual translation is that they were attending a pre-show auction (or 2) or doing wholesale business at the hotels.
<< <i>
<< <i>At a major show such as ANA, FUN or even Long Beach, a lot of dealers will complain about how many days too long their trip is. You ask them when they got into town and they tell you four days before the show. Translation? They showed up three days too early so obviously their trip is much longer than it should have been. >>
I think the actual translation is that they were attending a pre-show auction (or 2) or doing wholesale business at the hotels. >>
That's true when they're at the ANA or FUN, but not at shows like Long Beach. Pre-Long Beach auctions are seldom but you'll still find dealers landing in town the Thursday or Friday before. Hotel room business doesn't require showing up in town five days in advance.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
I would think that's its really very obvious that if we were all well-socialized and had good people skills, we wouldn't be coin collectors.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>You know, I'm always amused by the "Things that bug me about coin collectors/dealers" threads.
I would think that's its really very obvious that if we were all well-socialized and had good people skills, we wouldn't be coin collectors.
To my experience, I must say, being "well-socialized" and having "good people skills" do not always go hand-in-hand
My big fear now, is a whole bunch of folks showing up at my table with a full array of magnification equipment... and turn my table into a full scale laboratory (just to bust my chops)
<< <i>
<< <i>You know, I'm always amused by the "Things that bug me about coin collectors/dealers" threads.
I would think that's its really very obvious that if we were all well-socialized and had good people skills, we wouldn't be coin collectors.
To my experience, I must say, being "well-socialized" and having "good people skills" do not always go hand-in-hand
My big fear now, is a whole bunch of folks showing up at my table with a full array of magnification equipment... and turn my table into a full scale laboratory (just to bust my chops)
I would NEVER!
show up with a telescope.....
<< <i>
<< <i>You know, I'm always amused by the "Things that bug me about coin collectors/dealers" threads.
I would think that's its really very obvious that if we were all well-socialized and had good people skills, we wouldn't be coin collectors.
To my experience, I must say, being "well-socialized" and having "good people skills" do not always go hand-in-hand
My big fear now, is a whole bunch of folks showing up at my table with a full array of magnification equipment... and turn my table into a full scale laboratory (just to bust my chops)
I could do that!!
<< <i>I must admit I'm confused...Larry aren't you a government employee?...doesn't that require multiple graduate degrees in "rude"?
I've always been a rebel at heart...
The Vets like me... my bosses, not so much
<< <i>
<< <i>I must admit I'm confused...Larry aren't you a government employee?...doesn't that require multiple graduate degrees in "rude"?
I've always been a rebel at heart...
The Vets like me... my bosses, not so much
Larry I have a feeling that you do a good job there for the right people!!
<< <i>I've always been a rebel at heart...
The Vets like me... my bosses, not so much
Veterinarians