Newbie question about 100 oz engelhard silver bar please help

jimq112

Hi - newbie with a PM question. I bought a 100 oz engelhard bar, it was supposed to be in the original plastic. It came today and it was in the plastic but only part of the plastic was there.

The 2 machined ends look different from each other, do they look original to you guys who know better, or should I be concerned?

Also, is it ok to clean these bars or does that take away from the value? This bar isn't very good looking at all.

Thanks in advance!

Cladiator

Have you weighed it?

jimq112

Thanks for the fast response!

It weighed 109.3 ounces, I think that's just under 100 troy ounces

Cladiator

99.6223 oz(troy)

jimq112

Does anybody know about the different end surfaces? I'm guessing 99.6 oz is pretty close. Thanks!

OPA

<< <i>Does anybody know about the different end surfaces? I'm guessing 99.6 oz is pretty close. Thanks! >>



I hope your scale is off ... In my book 99.6 is not close enough...1/2 oz variance is to much...

JeremyDie1

It appears they shaved some silver off the end. I would contact the seller and see what he has to say about this.

cladking

There are alterred bars with the silver drilled out but these are the proper weight
and the ends look good. They can be discerned by hanging them from a string and
ringing them. Real bars sound good. Bad ones thud.

I'd be concerned with an underweight bar. All bars are overweight and the best brands
tend to be closest to the proper weight. Most of these will weigh 100.1 to 100.15 OZt
but a few will be lighter or heavier if memory serves.

AndyMac

Here's a link to an edge view link

notwilight

Actually none of these look like the englehard bar I have handy. The top pic looks almost the same as mine but mine doesn't have the corners beveled. My first thought is that you have an end piece and I think that may still be the case. They extrude these in very long bars and cut into 100 oz sections with a saw. So if you have and end bar, perhaps the end has the pattern in your lower pic. I'll post pictures when I get a chance.

As for the weight, I'd guess your scale is most likely off unless the bar really has been tampered with. --Jerry

1jester

<< <i>

<< <i>Does anybody know about the different end surfaces? I'm guessing 99.6 oz is pretty close. Thanks! >>



I hope your scale is off ... In my book 99.6 is not close enough...1/2 oz variance is to much... >>



I agree. Check your scale for accuracy. That's too light, as correct bars will be exactly spot-on or slightly heavy.

jimq112

Thanks for your advice and knowledge! My wife is a clerk at usps and tomorrow she'll weigh it at work. Our scale at home is a couple years old and might be off but the postal scales are checked every month or so.

Thanks again!

brokeer

Ends look normal to me. Don't know if cleaning hurts value. Dirty shouldn't matter.

SilverBaron

.... 2 machined ends look different from each other, do they look original....


Yes.


The rippled end is part of the ingot processing.

Engelhard 100's were made by taking a 10,000 oz ingot and rolling it

into long "ribbons" of the desired dementions. The ribbon was cut

to length to make 100 oz bars. Each bar was then checked for weight.

If over weight, it was adjusted by shaving .... if under weight, it was rejected.

The rippled end of your 100 oz bar is simply the first or last 100 oz bar from the ribbon.

As for the plastic sleeve ...... It really has no value. The plastic is getting

brittle with age and simply fell apart. The seller really should not have

described it as having the plastic if it was in vey poor shape.... buttt

not having the plastic does not lower the value. As far as cleaning it...

It will not hurt the value to brighten it up with a little dipping. Just do not

scrub it or use harsh cleaners.

gecko109

My biggest problem is with the shapes, not textures of the 2 ends. Perhaps its an optical illusion, but the bottom pic appears quite trapezoidal to me. Anyone else notice this?

CaptHenway

The trapezoidal shape is normal.
The one end is a bit rougher than normal, but I have similar.
The beveling is quite common.
The plastic boxes tend to die of old age.
All in all, I see nothing wrong with the bar. If the toning bothers you go ahead and dip it with some Jewelluster on a clean rag, then sprinkle with some baking soda to neutralize the dip. nRinse well and dry before storage.
TD

Weiss

It looks like many of the similar Engelhard bars I've seen, including the one I own.

I think this is a great example of perceived value of bullion. Gresham's law.

We all collect bullion, and most of us are at least a little iffy about this bar. That's just another reason why I favor 90% over bars--at least bars greater than 10 oz or maybe kilos.

gecko109

<< <i>The trapezoidal shape is normal.
The one end is a bit rougher than normal, but I have similar.
The beveling is quite common.
The plastic boxes tend to die of old age.
All in all, I see nothing wrong with the bar. If the toning bothers you go ahead and dip it with some Jewelluster on a clean rag, then sprinkle with some baking soda to neutralize the dip. nRinse well and dry before storage.
TD >>





I dont own a 100 oz bar, but it seems weird to me that one end is perfectly rectangular and the other end is trapezoidal. In fact, its almost like an MC Esher scetch.....just doesnt seem possible!

brokeer

Both ends are trapezoidal. Photo perspective slightly different so it appears rectangular.

gecko109

<< <i>Both ends are trapezoidal. Photo perspective slightly different so it appears rectangular. >>





Wow....top photo looks like 4 perfect 90's to me when taking angle of photo into consideration. Cool illusion I guess.

brokeer

The bar is flipped over in the second photo. (Top of bar at bottom of 1st photo and at the top of 2nd photo.)

jimq112

<< <i>[ Each bar was then checked for weight.

If over weight, it was adjusted by shaving .... if under weight, it was rejected.

>>



This is the part that worries me. If under weight = rejected, then this one has to be altered if it's under weight?


Thanks to all for your advice and knowledge. I've bought some of the smaller bars and thought I knew what I was doing.

mkman123

With older poured engelhards, the bars are usually over the specified weight such as older poured 3 oz, 4 oz, etc bars. They never were right on the weight. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the older poured bars were a tiny bit underweight. Perhaps they will sometimes estimate it.

Not sure on the newer 100 oz bars but it doesn't seem suspect. Perhaps someone was careless and sliced a bit too much silver off?
If you are worried, return it back and have them weigh another one and get the one thats more close to the weight.

SilverBaron

......jimq112.....

I would still be highly suprised if this bar turns out to be underweight or altered.

The bar is 100 troy oz's ---- that equals 3,110.4 grams. Now if it weighs in at 3109 or 3110 grams...

well..... ok..... it is not right buttttttt ....... I find that mine weigh in at 3112-19 grams.


A quick and reliable test to tell if it has been "filled".

Ballence the bar on a plastic coin tube .... face down.

LIGHTLY tap the end [ top of bar ] with a small hammer. [ no...this will not damage it ]

If it has a nice ring to it .... it is good.

If it has a dull - dead non-ring to it... suspect.

A quick check that I use is simply to look very carefully at the "streaks" along the sides and ends.

If a bar has been cut or drilled/plugged.... there will be interuptions / breaks in the lines.

PerryHall

The bar may be good but you may still get a dull thud if there is any air bubbles trapped in the bar.

jimq112

Here's a side view. It does ring consistently all around the bar. My wife forgot to take it to work today but I'll have an accurate weight tomorrow. Thanks again!

brokeer

I bet it is just fine.

jimq112

It does ring ok, my wife checked it on all 3 of the scales at work and it was low all 3 times by almost 1/2 ounce. She checked calibration on the scales and they were all within .1%. The seller agreed to replace or refund, he seems honest so I would rather have it replaced than a refund. Even if it is "ok" being underweight it would always be a little tainted for me, so it's best that I exchange it for a different one.

Thanks again for all your help!!

jim

jimq112

Received a replacement bar today, no hassles or problems at all from the seller. Thanks again for all your help and advice!

gsa1fan

Glad to hear the seller made good on it!