Maybe I should call PSA and take them up on their 500 for 5.00 bulk rate and explain to them that I spent a great deal of opportunity cost to acquire the cards, and I keep them stored in a nice cool place, and I pay people to sift through them for me...What do you think, you think they will give me an even better deal? >>
500 cards is not even close to a bulk sub as far as psa is concerned.
<< <i>1) I would love to know what you think the "super sweet" deal is.
PSA giving them a price break has nothing to do with why they can afford to sell cards for $4.00. The market dictates that.
For example. They send in 50 1984 topps eric dickerson rookies and for argument sake they got 50 10s. they sell the first 5 for $150+ The next 10 sell for $100ea the next 10 sell for $50 ea the next 10 sell for $20 ea
They put the last 5 in their store for $3.99ea
Their price per card has nothing to do with them selling cards for $3 or $7. They already made all their money on those cards.
The people that need psa graded modern cards is finite and in fact extremely limited.
Do a vcp search on a 1984 donruss tom hume and see how the 1st sells for $1300 and the 5th sells for $20.00
The guy that sold it for 20 didnt kill the market on that card. Everyone who wanted it got it and now you have a product that has 0 demand.
You might be one of 3 mike bossy collectors out there who collects psa graded cards. Purely arbitrary number but lets use it for this example.
1985 blah blah Mike Bossy PSA 10 - pop 1
Current people in the world that want that card = 3
Card goes for auction- 3 people bid, card sells for $35
pop2 gets graded.
Current people in the world that want that card = 2
Card goes for auction- 2 people bid, card sells for $20
pop3 gets graded
Current people in the world that want that card =1
Card goes to auction, 1 person bid, it sells for opening big of $9.99
DEMAND for that card is now 0. Nobody wants it, nobody cares about it. Its worth $0 to everyone else in the world.
pop4 comes out. What do you want the seller to do with this card?? put it in his ebay store for $40 and wait for a new mike bossy collector to come around?
His cost is irrelevant. he can put it on ebay at $99 or $5.99 and will get the same interest.
This is the case for all player sets and all 84 donruss commons and any other set where the supply is 100,000x the demand.
Lets take the 75 topps mini's for examle. The top 5 guys bid against each other and have every low pop common selling for hundreds of dollars. If today those same 5 guys would all decide to sell their sets because they need money, low pop 75 mini commons would be $10ea.
Also, if $3.99 with free shipping was such a super sweet deal, 4sc would have no cards in their inventory. The cards STILL DO NOT SELL at that price. Without demand, the value is 0. Their SUPER SWEET deal has absolutely nothing to do with it.
If you cant make back what you paid for grading fees on your subs and you are doing it as an investment then you simply do not understand the market and you are sending in the wrong cards. >>
You have no idea what you are talking about. True a lot has to do with demand and population, but if you look at 4Sharps Certification numbers you can clearly see that they do not hoard cards the way you have implied.
And how can you say the good deal has nothing to do with it? I bet you if they paid 10.00 to get that card graded it would be online for 9.99-11.99..and here is the important thing...it would be an okay price!
And the cards are selling, at least the ones I see (hockey)
<< <i>Maybe I should call PSA and take them up on their 500 for 5.00 bulk rate and explain to them that I spent a great deal of opportunity cost to acquire the cards, and I keep them stored in a nice cool place, and I pay people to sift through them for me...What do you think, you think they will give me an even better deal? >>
500 cards is not even close to a bulk sub as far as psa is concerned. >>
Subject: Bulk Pricing
Dear Mr. Mullins,
Based on your submission of 250+ modern hockey cards valued under $100 each, we can offer you a grading fee of $6/card. The next price break would be for a minimum of 500 cards at $5/card.
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
lets face it. a psa 10 common card, or 1990 topps star card is pretty much worth crap for the most part. the registry makes people pay stupid money for plastic. If your not collecing for registry purposes there is no good reason to pay more than a buck or two for pretty much any modern, common star or rookie, there is a lot of artificial value built into the grade.
Mullins obviously doesn't understand or refuses to accept the FACTS. Roger explained it quite accurately.
I, for one, am tired of trying to explain a simple concept to someone that is so dead set on being right that they'll ignore the obvious. I wish him luck and let him go on his merry way blaming bulk submitters for ruining the card market.
BTW, don't tell him that the vintage market for high end material is still very strong and, in many cases, exceeding prices realized last year. He'll just say that is because the bulk submitters haven't killed it...
<< <i>BTW, don't tell him that the vintage market for high end material is still very strong and, in many cases, exceeding prices realized last year. He'll just say that is because the bulk submitters haven't killed it... >>
Where are they going to get the product? More modern unopened than vintage.
Mullins obviously doesn't understand or refuses to accept the FACTS. Roger explained it quite accurately.
I, for one, am tired of trying to explain a simple concept to someone that is so dead set on being right that they'll ignore the obvious. I wish him luck and let him go on his merry way blaming bulk submitters for ruining the card market.
BTW, don't tell him that the vintage market for high end material is still very strong and, in many cases, exceeding prices realized last year. He'll just say that is because the bulk submitters haven't killed it... >>
He doesn't understand-- and, in fact, a lot of guys don't understand-- that as a card seller you TAKE a price, you don't SET one.
Anyone that wants to copy and paste should do so with the 1966 Philadelphia Bob Brown RC in PSA 8. It proves Roger's point to a tee. And it wasn't the result of bulk submitters!
<< <i>if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card >>
I would love to recoup cost on used underwear and stale bread. Stop buying things you have such little use for and you'll never have to worry about getting your costs back
Anyone that wants to copy and paste should do so with the 1966 Philadelphia Bob Brown RC in PSA 8. It proves Roger's point to a tee. And it wasn't the result of bulk submitters!
Ditto with the 1965 Topps Charlie Smith. Everyone that wanted one had one. price went from 1000.00 to 250.00
We can all try to explain to this kid until we are blue in the face. We try to explain one thing he goes off on some other tangent.
We need to have a icon where the happy face is slamming his head against the wall!
As for me....the set I am building will be in all "8"s and I am more than happy to swoop in a pick these very cheap cards up from 4 square for my set. I have 25 bids on cards in their inventory ending today with small opening bids. I am hoping to win half of them but if I will all of them I would not be happier
<< <i>Hey Mullins, the July grading special is down to $4.50 per card. Now you can set the market price. >>
read the thread and look at what I have been saying...and the spin everyone else put on it.
It is like this: and once again, this is an opinion...
If you are submitting cards for (lets just use a round number) 10.00/card, as a business you will not submit a lot of commons and low pop cards. Instead you will sift through and do a lot of pre-grading. Afterward you would only submit maybe 2-3 cards that you are pretty sure will come back at least mint.
The collector will not follow this model. At 10.00/card they will maybe submit one card, and instead probably wait until one comes on the market from the businessman above. The collector will be willing to pay 30.00 for this card because they know that it will cost them 10.00/card to get their own graded and they are not sure as to what PSA will grade it. This could turn into a money pit.
Now, so far with the above, let's say you and the seller put your cards on eBay. Both of you pretty much have the same amount of money into the card.
If the business is liquidating they will probably start the auction for 10.00 to at least recoup fees. Anything higher is bonus.
If the collector had submitted their card they could do the same and not lose any money. If the collector had bought a card from the businessman then they could at least recoup a reasonable amount of money from the grading fees as the business would be starting their listing for 10.00. The professional grading fee has some value, regardless of market, regardless of smr.
Now, let's say that the business gets a, keyword massive discount from the grading company. Let's just say that they are paying 4.00/card.
If the business is liquidating they will probably start the auction for 4.00 to at least recoup fees. Anything higher is bonus.
If the collector had submitted their card they would lose money because they would have to compete with the business above at 4.00. The business has 4.00 into the card. The collector has 10.00. If the collector had bought the card from the businessman for 30.00 then they would lose even more money from the grading fee "value" as the business would be starting their listing for 4.00.
But here is the most damaging thing: now the people who are getting into the hobby expect all graded cards to begin at 4.00. Now 10.00 is too high to ask or begin an auction for a common.
Collectors, like myself, who added cards to their subs to help pay for their own collections are having a difficult time recouping their fees.
And because the businesses received such a large discount, they flooded the market with cards. Ask yourself this...if grading fees were...1.00...wouldn't you be apt to send out a lot more than you usually do?
The drop of 30.00 to 10.00 is OK. The collector paid a premium to get the card for their collection as they either wanted it then or did not want to chance the idea that another may not come on the market.
Obviously there are a lot of other variables that go into all of this. Maybe the company had three cards and they made so much on the other two that they can let the last go for a few dollars...but they are probably selling it for what they have into it. It is bad business to sell for less than that, regardless of how much you made on the other two, but if they do, they do. Trust me though, they would not have so much inventory to "dump" if they were paying 10.00/card...or a reasonable discount for bulk.
Now, should the business get a discount? Absolutely. How much though? When you give the business such a large discount and the collector has to pay significantly more, you make it difficult for the collector to sell when they upgrade or trade for another card...and isn't that what this hobby is all about?
Obviously you understand, but you just don't understand. Does that make any sense?
If PSA charged the bulk submitters full freight, they wouldn't be bulk submitters.
As it has been said before, you want to have your cake and eat it, too.
The current special of $4.50 is available to EVERYONE that has a PSA Membership. The best price that I am aware of for bulk submitters is $3.50 and that is for thousands and thousands of cards per month.
Keep in mind, without a bulk discount, a majority of the commons and low value cards would NEVER be graded. There is a market for that material and the bulk pricing structure allows for these cards to be graded. If they sell for $30 or they sell for $3, then that is what the market will bear. I don't think any bulk submitter sends in cards with the thought process of just breaking even. They sell what they can at the highest value and then when prices drop (as the buyers get filled) they either sit on the inventory (which generates ZERO revenue) or they liquidate to garner revenue to reinvest into their next project/submission.
Please keep this in mind before you condemn bulk submitters and infer that PSA is in bed with them. And realize that without a lot of the stuff going in on bulk submissions, there would be less (or even NONE) of the material that you may be looking to purchase.
When you get the concept of sellers setting the market out of your head and realize that buyers set the market, you may finally grasp the concepts and explanations that are being offered.
Some of you have no idea about 4SC's listing practices. I do, and it's publicly available knowledge from tracking their listings, and bidding on many of them.
A card being listed (except for some very high demand, high dollar cards that they may start at 99 cents) will be initially listed at anywhere from $20 to $49.99. If it does not sell at that price, it will be relisted at a lower price. This repeats as necessary, until the final listing at auction is for either a $2 or $3 opening bid. If and only if it still has not sold, it will be put up for a BIN - most used to be at $4 plus shipping, but they have now changed to $3.99 with free shipping.
Every card you're now buying from their store for $3.99, you passed up at a lower auction opening bid - and so did the rest of the world. [I'm still second-guessing myself for not cleaning them out of things like Zip'z Discs PSA 10s when they opened at $3 each, but I figure there will be more, and they weren't that high a priority for me.]
There is very little demand for many of these cards. That's why common PSA 8s from the '60s were dropping to $4 or less, why PSA 9s and PSA 10 discs from the '70s were doing the same, and why PSA 9s and 10s from the '80s on were doing the same.
4SC has done a wonderful job of supplying player collectors with cards that they would not have paid full-price to grade, and certainly wouldn't have paid some seller's expection of lofty profits for.
Any card is only worth what other people are willing to pay for it. 4SC isn't giving cards away by putting them for $3.99 BINs; they are recognizing the market reality that people were not willing to pay more.
<< <i>initially listed at anywhere from $20 to $49.99. This repeats as necessary, until the final listing at auction is for either a $2 or $3 opening bid. If and only if it still has not sold, it will be put up for a BIN - most used to be at $4 plus shipping, but they have now changed to $3.99 with free shipping. >>
By doing that they only hurt the collector. To please Mullins, they need to sell everything for their original prices
Patrick I have not spun anything. I quoted you verbatim. Don't blame me because you have no idea what you are talking about and many people are telling you so.
I have NO influence over what other people say or do here.
As for insulting you, grow a thicker skin. You threw around a few insults yourself.
The bottom line here is you simply have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
Roger, Scott, Guy, Nick and probably a few others tried to explain it to you and you are either to thick to comprehend
it or are just simply ignorant.
If you want to blame me go right ahead I'm a big boy and I can take it.
Stop whining that other people sell items cheaper then you do and POSSIBLY get a better rate then you do.
They also may have higher over head then you do too. (hopefully you will finally get what I mean when i say that)
What was that other Ebay seller that was like 4SC, had a ton of stuff for sale. I believe their name started with a "D". Are they still on EBay?? Don't remember seeing them lately.
Comments
Maybe I should call PSA and take them up on their 500 for 5.00 bulk rate and explain to them that I spent a great deal of opportunity cost to acquire the cards, and I keep them stored in a nice cool place, and I pay people to sift through them for me...What do you think, you think they will give me an even better deal? >>
500 cards is not even close to a bulk sub as far as psa is concerned.
Listen this is getting stupid now. I never said PSA cared or used that as a determination.
I'll try and explain it again since you really are dense.
My point with regards to overhead was for them to get a better rate then you they also have
more overhead then you do.
Steve
<< <i>1) I would love to know what you think the "super sweet" deal is.
PSA giving them a price break has nothing to do with why they can afford to sell cards for $4.00. The market dictates that.
For example.
They send in 50 1984 topps eric dickerson rookies and for argument sake they got 50 10s.
they sell the first 5 for $150+
The next 10 sell for $100ea
the next 10 sell for $50 ea
the next 10 sell for $20 ea
They put the last 5 in their store for $3.99ea
Their price per card has nothing to do with them selling cards for $3 or $7. They already made all their money on those cards.
The people that need psa graded modern cards is finite and in fact extremely limited.
Do a vcp search on a 1984 donruss tom hume and see how the 1st sells for $1300 and the 5th sells for $20.00
The guy that sold it for 20 didnt kill the market on that card. Everyone who wanted it got it and now you have a product that has 0 demand.
You might be one of 3 mike bossy collectors out there who collects psa graded cards. Purely arbitrary number but lets use it for this example.
1985 blah blah Mike Bossy PSA 10 - pop 1
Current people in the world that want that card = 3
Card goes for auction- 3 people bid, card sells for $35
pop2 gets graded.
Current people in the world that want that card = 2
Card goes for auction- 2 people bid, card sells for $20
pop3 gets graded
Current people in the world that want that card =1
Card goes to auction, 1 person bid, it sells for opening big of $9.99
DEMAND for that card is now 0. Nobody wants it, nobody cares about it. Its worth $0 to everyone else in the world.
pop4 comes out.
What do you want the seller to do with this card?? put it in his ebay store for $40 and wait for a new mike bossy collector to come around?
His cost is irrelevant. he can put it on ebay at $99 or $5.99 and will get the same interest.
This is the case for all player sets and all 84 donruss commons and any other set where the supply is 100,000x the demand.
Lets take the 75 topps mini's for examle. The top 5 guys bid against each other and have every low pop common selling for hundreds of dollars. If today those same 5 guys would all decide to sell their sets because they need money, low pop 75 mini commons would be $10ea.
Also, if $3.99 with free shipping was such a super sweet deal, 4sc would have no cards in their inventory. The cards STILL DO NOT SELL at that price. Without demand, the value is 0. Their SUPER SWEET deal has absolutely nothing to do with it.
If you cant make back what you paid for grading fees on your subs and you are doing it as an investment then you simply do not understand the market and you are sending in the wrong cards. >>
You have no idea what you are talking about. True a lot has to do with demand and population, but if you look at 4Sharps Certification numbers you can clearly see that they do not hoard cards the way you have implied.
And how can you say the good deal has nothing to do with it? I bet you if they paid 10.00 to get that card graded it would be online for 9.99-11.99..and here is the important thing...it would be an okay price!
And the cards are selling, at least the ones I see (hockey)
Shouldn't they be selling their cards for more then in order to recoup these potential high overhead costs?
Didn't Roger just explain this? Didn't I say almost the same thing earlier?
God I can't wait for you to get bammed again.
yeah I know all about you Hockey boy.
Steve
Ok that's it for me.
Steve
<< <i>Maybe I should call PSA and take them up on their 500 for 5.00 bulk rate and explain to them that I spent a great deal of opportunity cost to acquire the cards, and I keep them stored in a nice cool place, and I pay people to sift through them for me...What do you think, you think they will give me an even better deal? >>
500 cards is not even close to a bulk sub as far as psa is concerned. >>
Subject: Bulk Pricing
Dear Mr. Mullins,
Based on your submission of 250+ modern hockey cards valued under $100 each, we can offer you a grading fee of $6/card. The next price break would be for a minimum of 500 cards at $5/card.
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
Sincerely,
Laura Rosenberg
Customer Service
Collectors Universe, Inc.
(800) 325-1121
<< <i>Roger has no idea what he is talking about?
Ok that's it for me.
Steve >>
see above
the kind you have been whining all night about, the kind 4sc gets
Not the 5.00 500 card deal that forum members get for 4.50.
Steve
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Steve
<< <i>Umm I think Roger was talking about getting a super duper sweet bulk deal.
the kind you have been whining all night about, the kind 4sc gets
Not the 5.00 500 card deal that forum members get for 4.50.
Steve >>
looks like he said, "500 cards is not even close to a bulk sub as far as psa is concerned"
This is true of ANY Business!!!!!!
Best buy, kmart, medical supplies, tv's, widgets, horeshoes, unicorns, gatorade, batteries, car charges, mirrors, air conditioning, condoms etc
Spend more, pay less. BEST clients pay less then everyday 1 time shoppers.
Wow i cant believe you dont get this.
Nice try though.
Steve
Mullins obviously doesn't understand or refuses to accept the FACTS. Roger explained it quite accurately.
I, for one, am tired of trying to explain a simple concept to someone that is so dead set on being right that they'll ignore the obvious. I wish him luck and let him go on his merry way blaming bulk submitters for ruining the card market.
BTW, don't tell him that the vintage market for high end material is still very strong and, in many cases, exceeding prices realized last year. He'll just say that is because the bulk submitters haven't killed it...
<< <i>
<< <i>Umm I think Roger was talking about getting a super duper sweet bulk deal.
the kind you have been whining all night about, the kind 4sc gets
Not the 5.00 500 card deal that forum members get for 4.50.
Steve >>
looks like he said, "500 cards is not even close to a bulk sub as far as psa is concerned" >>
we were talking about 4sc type subs.
500 card sub is NOTHING for these guys.
These guys send in 8-10,000 cards a month and during prime times have sent in orders of 20,000 cards.
<< <i>Guess what.. 4sc and psasetguy spend 100x what you spend on grading fees every month. They are suppose to get a better deal!!!!!
This is true of ANY Business!!!!!!
Best buy, kmart, medical supplies, tv's, widgets, horeshoes, unicorns, gatorade, batteries, car charges, mirrors, air conditioning, condoms etc
Spend more, pay less. BEST clients pay less then everyday 1 time shoppers.
Wow i cant believe you dont get this. >>
If I bought a TV at Walmart I wouldn't expect it to hold its value..
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Umm I think Roger was talking about getting a super duper sweet bulk deal.
the kind you have been whining all night about, the kind 4sc gets
Not the 5.00 500 card deal that forum members get for 4.50.
Steve >>
looks like he said, "500 cards is not even close to a bulk sub as far as psa is concerned" >>
we were talking about 4sc type subs.
500 card sub is NOTHING for these guys.
These guys send in 8-10,000 cards a month and during prime times have sent in orders of 20,000 cards. >>
no, you said psa, not 4sharp
///////////////////////
Actually, the explanation offered by Rogermnj was excellent; prolix, but certainly excellent.
In light of the math, it is pretty clear that the largest submitter has the power to tank the
common market AND make a large profit BEFORE doing so.
That submitter could do the same thing, regardless of how low/high his grading fees were.
...........
I don't, though, agree that the market is always "finite." The number of interested buyers
is always, we hope, going to change over time.
Currently, it is MUCH better to be a buyer than it is to be a seller. That may change, someday.
If you can't keep up the thread will become chaotic.
Roger I already explained that to him 4 pages ago using plumbers.
Yes PSA has all sorts or rates for bulk submitters. The one they offered you 500 cards for 5.00
can be had for 4.00 or 4.50 through the forum. they also give people 100 cars order for 7.00
They give people 3.75 for 2000 cards and so on.
Steve
<< <i>BTW, don't tell him that the vintage market for high end material is still very strong and, in many cases, exceeding prices realized last year. He'll just say that is because the bulk submitters haven't killed it... >>
Where are they going to get the product? More modern unopened than vintage.
<< <i>This has gone off the deep end...
Mullins obviously doesn't understand or refuses to accept the FACTS. Roger explained it quite accurately.
I, for one, am tired of trying to explain a simple concept to someone that is so dead set on being right that they'll ignore the obvious. I wish him luck and let him go on his merry way blaming bulk submitters for ruining the card market.
BTW, don't tell him that the vintage market for high end material is still very strong and, in many cases, exceeding prices realized last year. He'll just say that is because the bulk submitters haven't killed it... >>
He doesn't understand-- and, in fact, a lot of guys don't understand-- that as a card seller you TAKE a price, you don't SET one.
he finally gets it!! I hope.
Steve
<< <i>he finally gets it!! I hope. >>
Steve:
Lowering your expectations?
Anyone that wants to copy and paste should do so with the 1966 Philadelphia Bob Brown RC in PSA 8. It proves Roger's point to a tee. And it wasn't the result of bulk submitters!
<< <i>
<< <i>Guess what.. 4sc and psasetguy spend 100x what you spend on grading fees every month. They are suppose to get a better deal!!!!!
This is true of ANY Business!!!!!!
Best buy, kmart, medical supplies, tv's, widgets, horeshoes, unicorns, gatorade, batteries, car charges, mirrors, air conditioning, condoms etc
Spend more, pay less. BEST clients pay less then everyday 1 time shoppers.
Wow i cant believe you dont get this. >>
If I bought a TV at Walmart I wouldn't expect it to hold its value.. >>
If you are expecting mike bossy 80s psa graded cards to hold their value then its a lost cause...
Your ROI would be MUCH GREATER on the tv's
<< <i>if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card >>
I would love to recoup cost on used underwear and stale bread. Stop buying things you have such little use for and you'll never have to worry about getting your costs back
Anyone that wants to copy and paste should do so with the 1966 Philadelphia Bob Brown RC in PSA 8. It proves Roger's point to a tee. And it wasn't the result of bulk submitters!
Ditto with the 1965 Topps Charlie Smith. Everyone that wanted one had one. price went from 1000.00 to 250.00
We can all try to explain to this kid until we are blue in the face. We try to explain one thing he goes off on some other tangent.
He did it to me and then to Roger.
Steve
As for me....the set I am building will be in all "8"s and I am more than happy to swoop in a pick these very cheap cards up from 4 square for my set. I have 25 bids on cards in their inventory ending today with small opening bids. I am hoping to win half of them but if I will all of them I would not be happier
<< <i>Hey Mullins, the July grading special is down to $4.50 per card. Now you can set the market price.
read the thread and look at what I have been saying...and the spin everyone else put on it.
It is like this: and once again, this is an opinion...
If you are submitting cards for (lets just use a round number) 10.00/card, as a business you will not submit a lot of commons and low pop cards. Instead you will sift through and do a lot of pre-grading. Afterward you would only submit maybe 2-3 cards that you are pretty sure will come back at least mint.
The collector will not follow this model. At 10.00/card they will maybe submit one card, and instead probably wait until one comes on the market from the businessman above. The collector will be willing to pay 30.00 for this card because they know that it will cost them 10.00/card to get their own graded and they are not sure as to what PSA will grade it. This could turn into a money pit.
Now, so far with the above, let's say you and the seller put your cards on eBay. Both of you pretty much have the same amount of money into the card.
If the business is liquidating they will probably start the auction for 10.00 to at least recoup fees. Anything higher is bonus.
If the collector had submitted their card they could do the same and not lose any money. If the collector had bought a card from the businessman then they could at least recoup a reasonable amount of money from the grading fees as the business would be starting their listing for 10.00. The professional grading fee has some value, regardless of market, regardless of smr.
Now, let's say that the business gets a, keyword massive discount from the grading company. Let's just say that they are paying 4.00/card.
If the business is liquidating they will probably start the auction for 4.00 to at least recoup fees. Anything higher is bonus.
If the collector had submitted their card they would lose money because they would have to compete with the business above at 4.00. The business has 4.00 into the card. The collector has 10.00. If the collector had bought the card from the businessman for 30.00 then they would lose even more money from the grading fee "value" as the business would be starting their listing for 4.00.
But here is the most damaging thing: now the people who are getting into the hobby expect all graded cards to begin at 4.00. Now 10.00 is too high to ask or begin an auction for a common.
Collectors, like myself, who added cards to their subs to help pay for their own collections are having a difficult time recouping their fees.
And because the businesses received such a large discount, they flooded the market with cards. Ask yourself this...if grading fees were...1.00...wouldn't you be apt to send out a lot more than you usually do?
The drop of 30.00 to 10.00 is OK. The collector paid a premium to get the card for their collection as they either wanted it then or did not want to chance the idea that another may not come on the market.
Obviously there are a lot of other variables that go into all of this. Maybe the company had three cards and they made so much on the other two that they can let the last go for a few dollars...but they are probably selling it for what they have into it. It is bad business to sell for less than that, regardless of how much you made on the other two, but if they do, they do. Trust me though, they would not have so much inventory to "dump" if they were paying 10.00/card...or a reasonable discount for bulk.
Now, should the business get a discount? Absolutely. How much though? When you give the business such a large discount and the collector has to pay significantly more, you make it difficult for the collector to sell when they upgrade or trade for another card...and isn't that what this hobby is all about?
Patrick
If PSA charged the bulk submitters full freight, they wouldn't be bulk submitters.
As it has been said before, you want to have your cake and eat it, too.
The current special of $4.50 is available to EVERYONE that has a PSA Membership. The best price that I am aware of for bulk submitters is $3.50 and that is for thousands and thousands of cards per month.
Keep in mind, without a bulk discount, a majority of the commons and low value cards would NEVER be graded. There is a market for that material and the bulk pricing structure allows for these cards to be graded. If they sell for $30 or they sell for $3, then that is what the market will bear. I don't think any bulk submitter sends in cards with the thought process of just breaking even. They sell what they can at the highest value and then when prices drop (as the buyers get filled) they either sit on the inventory (which generates ZERO revenue) or they liquidate to garner revenue to reinvest into their next project/submission.
Please keep this in mind before you condemn bulk submitters and infer that PSA is in bed with them. And realize that without a lot of the stuff going in on bulk submissions, there would be less (or even NONE) of the material that you may be looking to purchase.
When you get the concept of sellers setting the market out of your head and realize that buyers set the market, you may finally grasp the concepts and explanations that are being offered.
As it has been said before, you want to have your cake and eat it, too.
Yep.
Steve
<< <i>Well said Otwcards ...I second that ! >>
Stop encouraging him, it only inflates his already huge ego.
Everyone's gotta make a living. Once you realize that, its all down hill from there.
A card being listed (except for some very high demand, high dollar cards that they may start at 99 cents) will be initially listed at anywhere from $20 to $49.99. If it does not sell at that price, it will be relisted at a lower price. This repeats as necessary, until the final listing at auction is for either a $2 or $3 opening bid. If and only if it still has not sold, it will be put up for a BIN - most used to be at $4 plus shipping, but they have now changed to $3.99 with free shipping.
Every card you're now buying from their store for $3.99, you passed up at a lower auction opening bid - and so did the rest of the world. [I'm still second-guessing myself for not cleaning them out of things like Zip'z Discs PSA 10s when they opened at $3 each, but I figure there will be more, and they weren't that high a priority for me.]
There is very little demand for many of these cards. That's why common PSA 8s from the '60s were dropping to $4 or less, why PSA 9s and PSA 10 discs from the '70s were doing the same, and why PSA 9s and 10s from the '80s on were doing the same.
4SC has done a wonderful job of supplying player collectors with cards that they would not have paid full-price to grade, and certainly wouldn't have paid some seller's expection of lofty profits for.
Any card is only worth what other people are willing to pay for it. 4SC isn't giving cards away by putting them for $3.99 BINs; they are recognizing the market reality that people were not willing to pay more.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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Who the hell pays 10.00 per card?
Some people should do more listening then speaking.
Nick you made some great points.
Steve
<< <i>initially listed at anywhere from $20 to $49.99. This repeats as necessary, until the final listing at auction is for either a $2 or $3 opening bid. If and only if it still has not sold, it will be put up for a BIN - most used to be at $4 plus shipping, but they have now changed to $3.99 with free shipping. >>
By doing that they only hurt the collector. To please Mullins, they need to sell everything for their original prices
their inventory is huge ^ wide,
allowing for super steals like that.
sip sip
j
RIP GURU
you have no idea what you are talking about and many people are telling you so.
I have NO influence over what other people say or do here.
As for insulting you, grow a thicker skin. You threw around a few insults yourself.
The bottom line here is you simply have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
Roger, Scott, Guy, Nick and probably a few others tried to explain it to you and you are either to thick to comprehend
it or are just simply ignorant.
If you want to blame me go right ahead I'm a big boy and I can take it.
Stop whining that other people sell items cheaper then you do and POSSIBLY get a better rate then you do.
They also may have higher over head then you do too. (hopefully you will finally get what I mean when i say that)
Steve