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jcdcubs
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Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
recently when PSA 10s started selling for nothing or just enough to cover grading
fees. You just can't survive with those prices.
It is interesting how this will impact the set registry program. Yes, the economy will rebound, but
the new 'normal' will not be like before.
I like 4SC and I hope they continue to submit in mass quantities so that we can all benefit from the
service.
The big question: what will they submit now?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>1000+ PSA 10 for $3.99 with Free Shipping. Why they sell cheap? Do you think it little cheap? >>
If it's too cheap just email them and ask them if you can pay more.
<< <i>It is interesting how this will impact the set registry program. >>
I think some of the modern sets are going to take a hit. Spending $5 to get a 5 cent common slabbed (or to buy an already slabbed 5 cent common) is a pretty extravagant way to collect a set.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
//////////////////////
Maybe nothing at all.
The crashing could have been slowed/stopped, if
folks had simply burried their inventory and waited
out the recession/depression.
Collectible sellers, in general, are under-capitalized
weak hands and totally self-interested. Their fear
of losing time-value on their inventory has created
the cascading price declines.
A strong cartel of sellers might be able to halt the
tanking, but it is likely that too much damage has
already been done.
If the player collectors (and modern set builders) were still active, then the market would support these cards. With the current economic downturn, this segment has seen a redistribution of funds.
In the long run, I would expect the player collector segment to return and would not be surprised to see the "common" star PSA 10's return to the $12-20 range. Just in today's market, it is easier to liquidate and redistribute the revenue into returning income propositions. These cards can always be acquired, graded and offered for sale at a later date when the profitability returns.
<< <i>"...The big question: what will they submit now?..."
//////////////////////
Maybe nothing at all.
The crashing could have been slowed/stopped, if
folks had simply burried their inventory and waited
out the recession/depression.
Collectible sellers, in general, are under-capitalized
weak hands and totally self-interested. Their fear
of losing time-value on their inventory has created
the cascading price declines.
A strong cartel of sellers might be able to halt the
tanking, but it is likely that too much damage has
already been done. >>
With all due respect, this analysis (at least as it relates to card selling) is completely wrong. The market for graded, modern non-RC cards is extremely thin-- in many cases, even with high profile players, there are only two to four guys on the planet that will pay over $6 for a card of a given player. This was true even before the economy tanked; you could have scores of Marino, Gary Carter, Ozzie Smith, etc., cards in PSA 10 holders sitting in your Ebay store for $10 each, and they would NEVER move. This isn't about guys getting cold feet-- it's about guys realizing that this stuff does not move for a decent price after the first two guys who collect a given player already have their copies.
4SC held out for a quite a while, but they started to liquidate about six weeks ago. Same with the psa-set-guy; he had 21,000 cards in his Ebay store as recently as March. But the problem was that this stuff wasn't moving, and hadn't been moving for a long time (even before the economy went sour). Also-- and this is important to recognize-- as a card seller you have very little market power. You are far more of a price taker than a price setter, and at some point you have to bow to the market forces and take your beating if it's clear you will never clear more than $6 for your PSA 10 1992 Score Dale Murphys (or whatever).
Mark
--------------------------------------------
NFL HOF RC SET
<< <i>The era of cheap graded PSA 10s is coming to a close. This model worked well until
recently when PSA 10s started selling for nothing or just enough to cover grading
fees. You just can't survive with those prices.
It is interesting how this will impact the set registry program. Yes, the economy will rebound, but
the new 'normal' will not be like before.
I like 4SC and I hope they continue to submit in mass quantities so that we can all benefit from the
service.
The big question: what will they submit now? >>
I agreed along with what you said until I recently went to sell some cards which I had upgraded in my sets. Submitting in mass quantity and selling for 3.99 drives the price of our collections to the dirt. Sure, it is fun while you are collecting, but if you ever need to sell, you're screwed.
Part of collecting is being able to sell and trade amongst other hobbyists. When sellers like four sharp corners do their thing, it is hard for us to get fair value back on our cards.
Is 3.99 a fair price for common cards for player and company sets in the registry? Yes. But PSA needs to do a better job in protecting us, the collectors, by giving us the same deal as they do sellers like four sharp and others who advertise on their website and SMR magazine, regardless of quantity.
If PSA charged 3.00 for grading a common card that the submitter paid 1.00 for, after shipping to and from PSA, fees for online sites to list and sell, then you're talking about the buyer getting the card for what it is truly worth (now that PSA/4Sharp/others have set the prices). If then the card gets bid up by two people...bonus.
Expect this thread to go poof because 4Sharp advertises with PSA, therefore they are a customer and obviously they do not want anything bad said about them on a board they pay money to.
Patrick
<< <i>Best case scenario, after postage and ebay/paypal fees, they're getting about $1.60 per card if sold individually. When you factor in grading fees, I think 4sc gave up on these cards and just wants to liquidate inventory. >>
Makes the most sense to me. You wanna get something for the card. $4 + s/h is better than what they're getting with it sitting in a box for years.
You are kidding right? They should charge the same if you send in 1 card or 1000?
"Submitting in mass quantity and selling for 3.99 drives the price of our collections to the dirt. Sure, it is fun while you are collecting, but if you ever need to sell, you're screwed."
How are you screwed if you were able to buy low?
You are sounding like someone that wants no risk and all reward.
Steve
Steve
/////////////////
Nobody said anything "bad" about that company, or any other.
Sellers have a right to dump their stuff at whatever price they choose.
If their actions help destroy pricing models, such is life in a free market.
...........
PSA's biz model would not come close to working, if they cut grading
fees much lower than they already are.
....................
Ten or 20 years out, most folks will get another chance to "break even" -
maybe a little better - on their commodity collectibles. In the meantime,
they can still enjoy their stuff as a "hobby."
<< <i>" Yes. But PSA needs to do a better job in protecting us, the collectors, by giving us the same deal as they do sellers like four sharp and others who advertise on their website and SMR magazine, regardless of quantity."
"Submitting in mass quantity and selling for 3.99 drives the price of our collections to the dirt. Sure, it is fun while you are collecting, but if you ever need to sell, you're screwed."
How are you screwed if you were able to buy low?
You are sounding like someone that wants no risk and all reward.
Steve >>
You're not screwed by buying low because obviously you can sell for low and recoup cost, but let's say you didn't buy at a ridiculously low price of under 10.00, let's say you buy a card for 35.00 (from a powerseller) because that is what the market says the card should go for...then in two months the same powerseller starts selling multiples of the same card for 5.00 buy it now...well then they just rewrote the market price on that card, and PSA had a hand in it too. The above example actually happened to me and has been the trend on a lot of cards I have bought for my sets.
A lot of people buy cards for investment. I am not one of those people, but if I pay 35.00 for a card because that is the average they have been selling for, then because PSA gave some company a massive discount for an order of significant quantity, then PSA and the powerseller have cause my collection to go down in value if I ever needed the money.
<< <i> You are kidding right? They should charge the same if you send in 1 card or 1000? >>
.25 cents off will help save 4Sharp and others approximately 250.00 off of an order of 1,000 cards and not damage the market...half is a little too much though...I do not know what they give 4Sharp but I can say that they offered me a discount of 4.50 per card when I inquired about a large order.
<< <i>"Sellers have a right to dump their stuff at whatever price they choose.
If their actions help destroy pricing models, such is life in a free market." >>
They sure do, but if they paid more in the grading they would be apt to charge more for recoup.
And we are not talking t-shirts here. These are collectibles. People buy and hope that they can at least recoup some If you had a miss on a particular new raw case of cards, then it is a miss, or if a player injects steroids and gets caught and his cards go down, miss, but when a person buys a professionally graded card, especially a common ,then there has to be some value in that alone and that is where this big discount really comes in to play.
<< <i>A lot of people buy cards for investment. I am not one of those people, but if I pay 35.00 for a card >>
What's an example of a $35 card that is now being sold for $5?
Investing in "low pop" modern cards is not a wise thing to do.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>let's say you buy a card for 35.00 (from a powerseller) because that is what the market says the card should go for >>
If you bought a card for $35, it means that card is worth $35 to you; if it wasn't worth that to you, you would have either bought something else or saved your money waiting for the price to drop
<< <i>
What's an example of a $35 card that is now being sold for $5?
Investing in "low pop" modern cards is not a wise thing to do. >>
Around March I bought a 1982 Mike Bossy OPC #197 which was about 25.00..one just recently sold for 3.80 by the same seller...1983 Bossy #3 just sold for 13.00, mine was 40.00...Topps Bossy #90 1986 5.00, I paid 35.
Look up the amount of 1979 Topps and OPC hockey cards that have sold in the past few days because they are being "dumped" cards which were selling for well over 100 are not even breaking 10...
when you give incredible deals, the market floods, the price goes down, the asking price goes down, everything goes down...most importantly expectation goes down...people laugh at me for asking 15.00 on a PSA 9 card that is well worth it...you can try to explain to them the grading fees until you are blue in the face, and then they will direct you to a powersellers listing for 4.99 or 6.00 buy it now.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>Can you define what you mean by "large order"? >>
250+ = 6.00/card
500+ = 5.00/card
<< <i>Around March I bought a 1982 Mike Bossy OPC #197 which was about 25.00..one just recently sold for 3.80 by the same seller...1983 Bossy #3 just sold for 13.00, mine was 40.00...Topps Bossy #90 1986 5.00, I paid 35. >>
Looks like you paid the "low pop" price. Low pop modern cards don't stay low pop forever. Once the faithful get their cards, the price will keep adjusting down. If you're "investing" in low pop modern cards, you're doing yourself a grave disservice.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>***PSA needs to do a better job in protecting us, the collectors, by giving us the same deal as they do sellers like four sharp and others who advertise on their website and SMR magazine, regardless of quantity.
***Expect this thread to go poof because 4Sharp advertises with PSA, therefore they are a customer and obviously they do not want anything bad said about them on a board they pay money to.
***Around March I bought a 1982 Mike Bossy OPC #197 which was about 25.00..one just recently sold for 3.80 by the same seller...1983 Bossy #3 just sold for 13.00, mine was 40.00...Topps Bossy #90 1986 5.00, I paid 35.
Look up the amount of 1979 Topps and OPC hockey cards that have sold in the past few days because they are being "dumped" cards which were selling for well over 100 are not even breaking 10...
when you give incredible deals, the market floods, the price goes down, the asking price goes down, everything goes down...most importantly expectation goes down...people laugh at me for asking 15.00 on a PSA 9 card that is well worth it...you can try to explain to them the grading fees until you are blue in the face, and then they will direct you to a powersellers listing for 4.99 or 6.00 buy it now. >>
Patrick:
You make several points, but I will suggest that they are nothing more than sour grapes. Bulk submitters DESERVE a better deal. ANYONE providing a significant portion of any business' revenue stream will be granted better or lower cost service. Try going to the same restaurant every Thursday night when they have a wait to be seated. After awhile, once they recognize you as a regular, odds are, you won't be waiting long to be seated.
PSA is NOT a partner in the rise or fall of card values. Anyone that purchases a card and pays a premium for it because it is the only one available at the time or is a low pop is bound to be disappointed at a later date when another comes available or the population increases. The demand typically wanes as the item becomes more readily available. That's Economics 101!!!
Rather than point fingers at someone else when things aren't as you would like them, consider that with a little patience, you would've been able to cost average yourself into your collection at a fraction of what you paid by having to have it NOW... So, who is really at fault? Who should you really be blaming?
Why would this thread go poof? Nothing negative has been said about 4SC or any other advertiser or bulk submitter. Just folks stating the facts.
<< <i>
Patrick:
After awhile, once they recognize you as a regular, odds are, you won't be waiting long to be seated. >>
but you're going to pay the same as the table next to you
<< <i>becomes more readily available. >>
...at at least half price grading fees, of course the cards will become more readily available
<< <i>That's Economics 101!!! >>
sure is
<< <i>Rather than point fingers at someone else when things aren't as you would like them, consider that with a little patience, you would've been able to cost average yourself into your collection at a fraction of what you paid by having to have it NOW... >>
I've been building my PSA set since '04-'05, passing on many cards that were being asked for too much over the market
<< <i>So, who is really at fault? >>
PSA and these powerselling bulk submitters...the reason these were low pop cards was because it wasn't worth submitting them in the first place...if a graded card hit the market people were expected to pay at least 15.00 for it, now that amount is much lower.
<< <i>Why would this thread go poof? >>
most four sharp corner threads do
<< <i>Nothing negative has been said about 4SC or any other advertiser or bulk submitter. >>
yet
Steve
Yes but you will be on desert when the other person is just being seated.
That was the point Scott tried to make.
Power sellers are in business to make money. If they see a card at pop 1 selling for 50.00
they are going to try and create as many as they can.
You seem to want to have the only PSA 10, once you have yours you don't want anyone else to have
one?
Steve
<< <i>I've been building my PSA set since '04-'05, passing on many cards that were being asked for too much over the market >>
Market changes fast.
Perfect example would be the 1986 Topps Traded Tiffany Bo Jackson PSA 9.
November of 07, one I sold at auction on Ebay sold for $102.50.
One showed up in January of 08, and sold for $41.00 at auction.
A month later, two showed up, and both closed for $38.77 and $41.00.
In April of 08, just 5 months after I sold my Bo Jackson for $102.50, I won one at auction for $10.45.
In just 5 months, the "market price" went from $102.50 to $10.45 in the span of just 5 sales.
I hope the guy who bought mine at $102.50 wasn't "investing!"
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>The era of cheap graded PSA 10s is coming to a close. >>
If anyone here thinks that certain large submitters don't get special treatment (grading specials), then you are fooling yourselves.
too? Not sure what getting a deal in grading costs has to do with the price of certain cards going down
as the pop increases. Do some here think that the same cards would not go down simply if PSA did not give out any grading deals?
The same thing happens in the 50's markets and 60's markets.
In one breath we tout how we are hobbyists then through the other side of the same mouth we complain when the card we
paid 100.00 for when it was a pop 1 goes for 10.00 as a pop 10.
WE can't have it both ways especially when their are literally thousands (millions) of cards waiting to be graded.
Because some person gets to pay 3.00 instead of 5.00 should not be a reason for a market to tank.
Steve
<< <i>Yes but you will be on desert when the other person is just being seated.
That was the point Scott tried to make. >>
fine, grade and/or ship the cards faster for the massive bulk submitters...I'm saying that charging them 50%+ less than everybody else destroys the market for the people who are building sets that include low pop and common cards.
Power sellers are in business to make money. If they see a card at pop 1 selling for 50.00
I understand...but when you are the business you should look out for all of your customers. If I am selling a product or service that cannot be found anywhere else and I had a handful of people opening up their own businesses, I would give them a discount...I may give them faster service or priority...but half off or more is a slap in the face to everyone else who has to sit around and hope and wait for monthly specials..and let's not forget pay annual fees just to even participate in these specials.
<< <i>You seem to want to have the only PSA 10, once you have yours you don't want anyone else to have
one? >>
that's just not true...but I would like to find the highest grade of each card for my master set.
that's just not true...but I would like to find the highest grade of each card for my master set.
Then what is the problem? Earlier you complained that your collections value goes to dirt
with all these powersellers getting deals on grading getting the cards graded.
IMO you want your cake and eat it too.
Steve
How do you know what 'deal' they get?
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>Rather than point fingers at someone else when things aren't as you would like them, consider that with a little patience, you would've been able to cost average yourself into your collection at a fraction of what you paid by having to have it NOW... >>
I've been building my PSA set since '04-'05, passing on many cards that were being asked for too much over the market >>
That's great. Then you should have an idea of what the cards SHOULD be worth. Discounts have been available bulk submitters for years (before you started your collection) so just because they got around to a segment that affect you, it becomes your concern.
<< <i>
<< <i>So, who is really at fault? >>
PSA and these powerselling bulk submitters...the reason these were low pop cards was because it wasn't worth submitting them in the first place...if a graded card hit the market people were expected to pay at least 15.00 for it, now that amount is much lower.
>>
>>
There are only 2 times that a card isn't worth submitting: 1. When the card and grading fees are more than than the graded card can be sold for AND/OR 2. When there are no buyers for the graded card. Hence, a card that can be sold for $10.00 that costs $6.00 to purchase and grade, the bilk submitter may still see enough margin to make it profitable. However, the average Joe would probably be into the card for more than $10.00 when you factor the purchase of the card, grading fees and two-way shipping to PSA.
Again, I understand your concerns, but you really are pizzing up a rope on this one.
<< <i>that's just not true...but I would like to find the highest grade of each card for my master set.
Then what is the problem? Earlier you complained that your collections value goes to dirt
with all these powersellers getting deals on grading getting the cards graded.
IMO you want your cake and eat it too.
Steve >>
Steve,
No, it just upsets me that these powersellers have the ability to dump cards for 3-4.00 each because PSA gave them a super deal, where other people, such as myself, would have to "dump" my cards for much higher to break even.
We all know that on most cards the SMR value is too low and that the demand sets the price. Well the prices are getting set in a bad economy bu to make matters worse hundreds of cards are going for around the price of grading...it is just a matter of who got the better deal getting their common or low pop cards graded.
As far as my collection goes, I have no problem paying a lot for a PSA 10 card because I know that I no longer have to worry about upgrading it. Recently I bought a pop 1 1984 OPC Bossy PSA 10 for about 220.00 from four sharp...in five years that card will probably not be worth much, but the PSA 10 gives me a reason to check it off as a card I no longer have to look for.
I am not buying my cards for investment. 95% of the cards I do buy are HOF'er Mike Bossy. Is it wrong for me to expect that a PSA 9 or 10 card at least holds a grading value of 15.00?
<< <i>I'm saying that charging them 50%+
How do you know what 'deal' they get?
Steve >>
I was quoted 5.00 per card for orders of at least 500 and that there was another price break for even more cards.
Steve,
No, it just upsets me that these powersellers have the ability to dump cards for 3-4.00 each because PSA gave them a super deal, where other people, such as myself, would have to "dump" my cards for much higher to break even.
We all know that on most cards the SMR value is too low and that the demand sets the price. Well the prices are getting set in a bad economy bu to make matters worse hundreds of cards are going for around the price of grading...it is just a matter of who got the better deal getting their common or low pop cards graded.
As far as my collection goes, I have no problem paying a lot for a PSA 10 card because I know that I no longer have to worry about upgrading it. Recently I bought a pop 1 1984 OPC Bossy PSA 10 for about 220.00 from four sharp...in five years that card will probably not be worth much, but the PSA 10 gives me a reason to check it off as a card I no longer have to look for.
I am not buying my cards for investment. 95% of the cards I do buy are HOF'er Mike Bossy. Is it wrong for me to expect that a PSA 9 or 10 card at least holds a grading value of 15.00? >>
You are making statements under a false assumption. You are assuming 4sc pays $1 per card and is making money at $4 per card with free shipping. This is not the case. if they sent in 400,000 cards and sold 390,000 of them and made good money these are just left overs that have gone unsold for months or years. I promise you they are not paying $1 or $2 for grading fees. They pay less than you but its not as significant as you think.
And you think this is not fair? And you were quoted the same price?
Am I missing something here?
Steve
<< <i>You are making statements under a false assumption. You are assuming 4sc pays $1 per card and is making money at $4 per card with free shipping. This is not the case. if they sent in 400,000 cards and sold 390,000 of them and made good money these are just left overs that have gone unsold for months or years. I promise you they are not paying $1 or $2 for grading fees. They pay less than you but its not as significant as you think. >>
The original poster asked why/how they were able to do it, all I did was add that it is hard for the people (collectors and hobbyists) trying to sell and if somebody had to sell their set these 3 or 4 dollar prices just will not offer a decent return. Everybody else blew that way out of proportion.
As far as "making false assumptions" I am not. I know for a fact that they pay at least 5.00 for their grades...at least.
Exactly.
And fwiw it is no ones business what other people pay. In the real world does Mr Mullins think that
a plumber that does 2 bathrooms a week pays the same price as a plumber that does 100?
You bet your last PSA 10 that the plumber doing 100 jobs a week is paying LESS for faucets then the guy doing 2.
Why should it be any different here? IMO this is all sour grapes.
Steve
<< <i>was quoted 5.00 per card for orders of at least 500 and that there was another price break for even more cards.
And you think this is not fair? And you were quoted the same price?
Am I missing something here?
Steve >>
at least 500 cards...how many collectors are going to submit 500+ cards for their own personal collection? This is designed for businesses, not the average collector.
Just about anyone can get that deal. Even you. I bet some get really sweet deals. And if they do they are subbing 10000's of cards
per month or year or whatever it takes. Want the same price as them? Submit like them. Joe has always said to call him if you have bulk
lots that need to be graded. The problem that you blame the powersellers for (or bulk submitters) for is really just the way markets work.
Once everyone that wants a certain card has theirs the price will go down. Cards do not have an intrinsic value like gold.
The problem started IMO when you started blaming them (powersellers) for the way the market
tanks. This is nothing new. This has been going on for at least 10 years.
Steve
when liquidating graded common cards you look at the grading costs.
whoever got the best deal has the best price.
how does the collector, who especially in this economy, make anywhere near the return they had in the card if they were in a position where they had to sell to pay some bills?
there is nothing really wrong with bulk pricing but there is such thing as too good of a deal.
<< <i>simple:
when liquidating graded common cards you look at the grading costs.
whoever got the best deal has the best price.
how does the collector, who especially in this economy, make anywhere near the return they had in the card if they were in a position where they had to sell to pay some bills?
there is nothing really wrong with bulk pricing but there is such thing as too good of a deal. >>
You don't seem to get it. Steve has been patiently trying to explain this, but it seems like you will not listen.
If a card drops in value from $35 to $4 that is NOT the 'bulk submitters' fault, and it is not the fault of PSA for giving the bulk subimtter a price that's better than the price you got. The reason this happens is because the quantity of cards has increased, and demand has remained fixed, which means the price GOES DOWN.
If you are paying $7 to have cards graded, and 4SC is paying $4, then the ONLY price shift that 4SC would be responsible for is the price drop from $7 to $4. The price drop from $35 to $7 is not attributable to 'bulk submitters'' business models, only to an increase in supply.
n
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>simple:
when liquidating graded common cards you look at the grading costs.
whoever got the best deal has the best price.
how does the collector, who especially in this economy, make anywhere near the return they had in the card if they were in a position where they had to sell to pay some bills?
there is nothing really wrong with bulk pricing but there is such thing as too good of a deal. >>
You don't seem to get it. Steve has been patiently trying to explain this, but it seems like you will not listen.
If a card drops in value from $35 to $4 that is NOT the 'bulk submitters' fault, and it is not the fault of PSA for giving the bulk subimtter a price that's better than the price you got. The reason this happens is because the quantity of cards has increased, and demand has remained fixed, which means the price GOES DOWN.
If you are paying $7 to have cards graded, and 4SC is paying $4, then the ONLY price shift that 4SC would be responsible for is the price drop from $7 to $4. The price drop from $35 to $7 is not attributable to 'bulk submitters'' business models, only to an increase in supply.
n >>
It is a combination of the two and right now these cards are selling for just about grading fees so it is all about who got the better deal. Obviously the 35 to 7 shift has something to do with the economy, but if you give sweet deals to companies and increase a pop of a card overnight, that too is cause for the price to drop significantly in such a short amount of time.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>simple:
when liquidating graded common cards you look at the grading costs.
whoever got the best deal has the best price.
how does the collector, who especially in this economy, make anywhere near the return they had in the card if they were in a position where they had to sell to pay some bills?
there is nothing really wrong with bulk pricing but there is such thing as too good of a deal. >>
You don't seem to get it. Steve has been patiently trying to explain this, but it seems like you will not listen.
If a card drops in value from $35 to $4 that is NOT the 'bulk submitters' fault, and it is not the fault of PSA for giving the bulk subimtter a price that's better than the price you got. The reason this happens is because the quantity of cards has increased, and demand has remained fixed, which means the price GOES DOWN.
If you are paying $7 to have cards graded, and 4SC is paying $4, then the ONLY price shift that 4SC would be responsible for is the price drop from $7 to $4. The price drop from $35 to $7 is not attributable to 'bulk submitters'' business models, only to an increase in supply.
n >>
It is a combination of the two and right now these cards are selling for just about grading fees so it is all about who got the better deal. Obviously the 35 to 7 shift has something to do with the economy, but if you give sweet deals to companies and increase a pop of a card overnight, that too is cause for the price to drop significantly in such a short amount of time. >>
You still aren't listening. You have made some good points in this thread (especially regarding price expectations), and I think you're well intentioned, but you are not thinking this point through very clearly.
Let's say 4SC didn't get a price break, and they were paying $7 per card just like you. In this case they would still send the price down from $35 to $7. The fact that they get a price break only means they send the price down to $4 instead of $7. That $3 disparity is not what you've been complaining about, so you should see that the bulk pricing is not the issue that concerns you. What IS the issue is the mammoth supply of raw cards out there, and unfortunately there's nothing anyone can do about that.
No, it just upsets me that these powersellers have the ability to dump cards for 3-4.00 each because PSA gave them a super deal, where other people, such as myself, would have to "dump" my cards for much higher to break even.
Does it bother you that these power sellers have overhead that you don't?
Steve