when liquidating graded common cards you look at the grading costs.
whoever got the best deal has the best price.
how does the collector, who especially in this economy, make anywhere near the return they had in the card if they were in a position where they had to sell to pay some bills?
there is nothing really wrong with bulk pricing but there is such thing as too good of a deal. >>
You don't seem to get it. Steve has been patiently trying to explain this, but it seems like you will not listen.
If a card drops in value from $35 to $4 that is NOT the 'bulk submitters' fault, and it is not the fault of PSA for giving the bulk subimtter a price that's better than the price you got. The reason this happens is because the quantity of cards has increased, and demand has remained fixed, which means the price GOES DOWN.
If you are paying $7 to have cards graded, and 4SC is paying $4, then the ONLY price shift that 4SC would be responsible for is the price drop from $7 to $4. The price drop from $35 to $7 is not attributable to 'bulk submitters'' business models, only to an increase in supply. n >>
It is a combination of the two and right now these cards are selling for just about grading fees so it is all about who got the better deal. Obviously the 35 to 7 shift has something to do with the economy, but if you give sweet deals to companies and increase a pop of a card overnight, that too is cause for the price to drop significantly in such a short amount of time. >>
You still aren't listening. You have made some good points in this thread (especially regarding price expectations), and I think you're well intentioned, but you are not thinking this point through very clearly.
Let's say 4SC didn't get a price break, and they were paying $7 per card just like you. In this case they would still send the price down from $35 to $7. The fact that they get a price break only means they send the price down to $4 instead of $7. That $3 disparity is not what you've been complaining about, so you should see that the bulk pricing is not the issue that concerns you. What IS the issue is the mammoth supply of raw cards out there, and unfortunately there's nothing anyone can do about that. >>
That is exactly what I am saying.
they can sell their cards for 3.99 because of the sweet deal they got
I didn't get that deal so my cards will not sell.
the reason there are so many raw common cards making it to PSA slabs is because of this sweet deal, otherwise so many companies would not have invested in them.
You used to be able to put together a 50-ish card order with a few to sell to help recoup the cost for the ones you would like to keep, but how can you do that when the current market value of these cards is lower than the grading fee? How do you get away with selling cards so low?
The original poster asked how they can do this...answer: MASSIVE bulk submissions and liquidation due to slow market/demand. Also, people now expect these cards that sell for 3-5 dollars to be the value...I have received emails from people asking why I sell cards for 10.00 when they can get it for 5.00
<< <i>No, it just upsets me that these powersellers have the ability to dump cards for 3-4.00 each because PSA gave them a super deal, where other people, such as myself, would have to "dump" my cards for much higher to break even.
Does it bother you that these power sellers have overhead that you don't?
Steve >>
I could care less about their "overhead" for all we know they could be twins living in their parent's basement. If they are not then overhead is their problem, not mine. If they have too much of it then as businessmen they should scale back.
The original poster asked how they can do this...answer: MASSIVE bulk submissions and liquidation due to slow market/demand. Also, people now expect these cards that sell for 3-5 dollars to be the value...I have received emails from people asking why I sell cards for 10.00 when they can get it for 5.00
One other point that was not touched on here, suppose these massive submitters were able to get a few cards that paid all the bills and made them money? The rest is gravy.
Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it?
Personally I buy the card and not the holder, that's why I no longer own any cards from 4SC and won't buy anymore. All the one's I had in the past definitely should not have been in 10 holders.
I think card buying is much the same as investing in the stock market. There are cards I bought in 1988 that sit in my closet and are worth less than what I paid in 1988. There are also cards I have bought that are worth 100x what I paid. It is an investment. If 4SC bets that they can sell 1987 topps baseball cards graded for $12-15 apiece and nobody buys them, what should they do? They do what any other business does: They get rid of the stuff that isn't selling at 30-75% off. It happens at Wal-Mart or Sears or any other retailer. If something isn't selling, it is taking up space and it is using money that needs to be making money for the seller. So it must go. If you go to Wal-Mart and buy a shirt for $25 and next month it is on sale for $15 and then the following month it is on sale for $7.99, did you get screwed by paying $25? Nope. You just bought it at the wrong time. I don't have any problem with 4SC selling stuff to recoup their losses. It's just the way business works.
Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection.
<< <i>"Another point I fail to understand? What makes you the overhead expert"?
ummm that was not the point.......that makes 3 points that you failed to understand. >>
You brought overhead into this, not me. Then say that it is a third point I fail to understand? What you fail to understand, along with overhead as that was obviously a dodge on your part, is the current downward spiraling of this market is based on some facts and opinion. My opinion is that 4sharp doesn't have much overhead on a card by card basis and this is because PSA gave them a super sweet deal. PSA can somewhat protect the value of their graded cards by not practically giving them away because once you give a card away then the customer (in this case 4sharp) can give them away too.
<< <i>The bottom line here is simply you want the benefits that a massive submitter gets[q/]
not true. I see nothing wrong with a fair price break of maybe 25 cents per card...but once you start grading cards for 50-75% less than what the majority are paying, then you begin to hurt the everyday collector who may want or need to sell his cards.
<< <i>You want to be able to make money on every sub, you want, you want, you want. >>
I don't want to make money, but I think I should at least be able to recoup grading fees without having people direct me to powersellers who are selling their items for more than half of my grading fees.
<< <i>No one is stopping you from getting those same benefits. Sub more cards, get the price reduction. >>
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though
On one side of your mouth you say you are not in it as a business then in the same breath you complain that customers email you why you are selling cards for 10.00 that others sell for 5.00!
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though >>
Are you really that dense? Do you hold on to losing lottery tickets hoping that the numbers will change?
BULK SUBMITTERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR PRICES DROPPING!!! Saying this is like blaming McDonald's for a decrease in beef prices when they run a promotion on burgers.
Just to help you out, repeat after me, "Today is Thursday, today is Thursday!" You'll be right once a week which is about as often as you'll be right in this thread!
On one side of your mouth you say you are not in it as a business then in the same breath you complain that customers email you why you are selling cards for 10.00 that others sell for 5.00!
lol Typical me me me
Steve >>
I'm not in it for the business...I sell a few things here and there to help recoup my subs, it is usually ideal to make more than you spend so that it helps pay for the cards you keep.
Hey, I offered an opinion and you, as well as others, brought "me me me" into this. You post more about "me" than I do.
<< <i>Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it? >>
I think he's probably a nice guy, and I've seen people on these boards who couldn't understand far more obvious points than this one, but it's true that seeing someone completely overlook this key fact is really frustrating.
If 4SC was paying $7 per card-- the same as you--then the value would drop from $40 to $7. As it stands, it drops from $40 to $4. Who cares about that extra $3?
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though >>
Are you really that dense? Do you hold on to losing lottery tickets hoping that the numbers will change?
BULK SUBMITTERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR PRICES DROPPING!!! Saying this is like blaming McDonald's for a decrease in beef prices when they run a promotion on burgers.
Just to help you out, repeat after me, "Today is Thursday, today is Thursday!" You'll be right once a week which is about as often as you'll be right in this thread! >>
bulk submitters flood the market
they are able to do this because it cost them very little to get their cards graded
when people see cards sell for 3.00 then they won't buy them for 15.00
3.00 becomes about what the potential buyers will pay when they look for that card.
and actually, it is a good idea to hold onto losing lottery tickets, if you win you can write them off on your taxes. I only have one and that was when I bought it on my eighteenth birthday.
<< <i>Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it? >>
I think he's probably a nice guy, and I've seen people on these boards who couldn't understand far more obvious points than this one, but it's true that seeing someone completely overlook this key fact is really frustrating.
If 4SC was paying $7 per card-- the same as you--then the value would drop from $40 to $7. As it stands, it drops from $40 to $4. Who cares about that extra $3? >>
we are not talking about 40
or 35
if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card. The massive bulk submitter will move the card and the average collector will not..sad that at 4.00 they sill maybe are making profit.
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though >>
Are you really that dense? Do you hold on to losing lottery tickets hoping that the numbers will change?
BULK SUBMITTERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR PRICES DROPPING!!! Saying this is like blaming McDonald's for a decrease in beef prices when they run a promotion on burgers.
Just to help you out, repeat after me, "Today is Thursday, today is Thursday!" You'll be right once a week which is about as often as you'll be right in this thread! >>
bulk submitters flood the market
they are able to do this because it cost them very little to get their cards graded
when people see cards sell for 3.00 then they won't buy them for 15.00
3.00 becomes about what the potential buyers will pay when they look for that card.
and actually, it is a good idea to hold onto losing lottery tickets, if you win you can write them off on your taxes. I only have one and that was when I bought it on my eighteenth birthday. >>
This is, actually, a very good point, and one I agree with 100%. The issue of price expectation is relevant, and bulk submitters have done a fantastic job of f***ing that up. Note to random idiot bulk seller: If you see a George Brett PSA 10 go off for $99.99 on a $99.99 starting bid, and you have a bunch of Bretts you want to sell, DON'T START THEM AT $9.99 EACH.
Edit to add: You're dead wrong, though, when you suggest that the lower price they pay to have their cards graded is the reason they lower price expectations, for reasons that Scott (and others) have tried very hard to explain to you.
<< <i>Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it? >>
I think he's probably a nice guy, and I've seen people on these boards who couldn't understand far more obvious points than this one, but it's true that seeing someone completely overlook this key fact is really frustrating.
If 4SC was paying $7 per card-- the same as you--then the value would drop from $40 to $7. As it stands, it drops from $40 to $4. Who cares about that extra $3? >>
we are not talking about 40
or 35
if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card. The massive bulk submitter will move the card and the average collector will not..sad that at 4.00 they sill maybe are making profit. >>
That is correct. The bulk seller has squeezed you out of selling cards for between $4 and $7. But that is not what you were grousing about earlier in this thread.
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though >>
Are you really that dense? Do you hold on to losing lottery tickets hoping that the numbers will change?
BULK SUBMITTERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR PRICES DROPPING!!! Saying this is like blaming McDonald's for a decrease in beef prices when they run a promotion on burgers.
Just to help you out, repeat after me, "Today is Thursday, today is Thursday!" You'll be right once a week which is about as often as you'll be right in this thread! >>
bulk submitters flood the market
they are able to do this because it cost them very little to get their cards graded
when people see cards sell for 3.00 then they won't buy them for 15.00
3.00 becomes about what the potential buyers will pay when they look for that card.
and actually, it is a good idea to hold onto losing lottery tickets, if you win you can write them off on your taxes. I only have one and that was when I bought it on my eighteenth birthday. >>
This is, actually, a very good point, and one I agree with 100%. The issue of price expectation is relevant, and bulk submitters have done a fantastic job of f***ing that up. Note to random idiot bulk seller: If you see a George Brett PSA 10 go off for $99.99 on a $99.99 starting bid, and you have a bunch of Bretts you want to sell, DON'T START THEM AT $9.99 EACH.
Edit to add: You're dead wrong, though, when you suggest that the lower price they pay to have their cards graded is the reason they lower price expectations, for reasons that Scott (and others) have tried very hard to explain to you. >>
<< <i>"Hey, I asked what makes you the overhead expert? You dodged it and said that I have no idea what it is"
I did not dodge anything.
Ok I'll bite do you? Do you know what thier over head is?
Even though that was not the point I was trying to make.
Yes Scott it appears he really is this dense.
Steve >>
I don't know 4Sharps overhead, but I know what overhead is and as a customer I don't care to know what they spend on advertising or rent or anything like that. If they are paying too much overhead then they need to reconsider how they do business.
Lets say you have 200.00 in losing tickets and then you win 500.00 you can write off 200.00
and claim 300.00 in winnings for tax purposes.
Steve >>
But Steve, he's saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against a potential future winnings that would be taxable. Since winnings in most states are not reported unless they exceed $1000.00, isn't saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against $1000+ just as foolish as complaining about someone getting a better deal and trying to enhance profit in their business model?
Placing blame on PSA for the increase in graded cards is off base. The submitters decide how many cards will be graded.
Poor planning on the part of submitters resulted in a glut. Once that inventory has been dumped, maybe the market will start a long/slow recovery. Maybe not. I dunno.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it? >>
I think he's probably a nice guy, and I've seen people on these boards who couldn't understand far more obvious points than this one, but it's true that seeing someone completely overlook this key fact is really frustrating.
If 4SC was paying $7 per card-- the same as you--then the value would drop from $40 to $7. As it stands, it drops from $40 to $4. Who cares about that extra $3? >>
we are not talking about 40
or 35
if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card. The massive bulk submitter will move the card and the average collector will not..sad that at 4.00 they sill maybe are making profit. >>
That is correct. The bulk seller has squeezed you out of selling cards for between $4 and $7. But that is not what you were grousing about earlier in this thread. >>
it is exactly what I have been saying all along, or at least trying to...and I wasn't grousing about anything, I just stated my opinion on PSA giving super sweet deals that enable these bulk sellers to do this
<< <i>But Steve, he's saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against a potential future winnings that would be taxable. Since winnings in most states are not reported unless they exceed $1000.00, isn't saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against $1000+ just as foolish as complaining about someone getting a better deal and trying to enhance profit in their business model? >>
You have to be eighteen to buy lottery tickets, so when I bought my first, and only one, I kept it.
I don't know 4Sharps overhead, but I know what overhead is and as a customer I don't care to know what they spend on advertising or rent or anything like that. If they are paying too much overhead then they need to reconsider how they do business.
Ok, and I'll try and answer this post like I did then, like you don't care what their overhead is they don't care what YOU have to pay per card for grading.
But Steve, he's saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against a potential future winnings that would be taxable. Since winnings in most states are not reported unless they exceed $1000.00, isn't saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against $1000+ just as foolish as complaining about someone getting a better deal and trying to enhance profit in their business model?
lol. I was just trying to explain why someone would save losing tickets.
<< <i>I don't know 4Sharps overhead, but I know what overhead is and as a customer I don't care to know what they spend on advertising or rent or anything like that. If they are paying too much overhead then they need to reconsider how they do business.
Ok, and I'll try and answer this post like I did then, like you don't care what their overhead is they don't care what YOU have to pay per card for grading.
Do you know understand?
Steve >>
and like I have said before, THEY probably are not saying anything about me...
and why should somebody who gets there cards graded so low care anyways? obviously they know they pay less than I
You said: and I quoted you. "No, it just upsets me that these powersellers have the ability to dump cards for 3-4.00 each because PSA gave them a super deal, where other people, such as myself, would have to "dump" my cards for much higher to break even.
And then I said:
Does it bother you that these power sellers have overhead that you don't?
My meaning at the time was for them to have the ability to dump cards for 3 and 4.00 each they also must have overhead that we don't know about. After all to be able to sub thousands of cards in order to get sweet deals from PSA they have to buy more cards, travel to get cards, pay people possibly to pre grade cards, hold the cards in some sort of building where they pay rent , heat, cooling, etc etc etc
So what I tried to convey and you obviously missed was to get sweet deals from PSA they incur costs that you and I have no idea about.
So when you said " I don't care what their overhead is" I said " And they don't care what your rate to sub is'
I don't know 4Sharps overhead, but I know what overhead is and as a customer I don't care to know what they spend on advertising or rent or anything like that. If they are paying too much overhead then they need to reconsider how they do business.
Earlier I believe it was stated that it was sad that even at their low prices they may be making a profit. It is not them who need to reconsider how they do business. This reminds me of those who complain about Wal-Mart putting small stores out of business. The situation is what it is. Wal-Mart is not going away and neither is 4SC.
1) I would love to know what you think the "super sweet" deal is.
PSA giving them a price break has nothing to do with why they can afford to sell cards for $4.00. The market dictates that.
For example. They send in 50 1984 topps eric dickerson rookies and for argument sake they got 50 10s. they sell the first 5 for $150+ The next 10 sell for $100ea the next 10 sell for $50 ea the next 10 sell for $20 ea
They put the last 5 in their store for $3.99ea
Their price per card has nothing to do with them selling cards for $3 or $7. They already made all their money on those cards.
The people that need psa graded modern cards is finite and in fact extremely limited.
Do a vcp search on a 1984 donruss tom hume and see how the 1st sells for $1300 and the 5th sells for $20.00
The guy that sold it for 20 didnt kill the market on that card. Everyone who wanted it got it and now you have a product that has 0 demand.
You might be one of 3 mike bossy collectors out there who collects psa graded cards. Purely arbitrary number but lets use it for this example.
1985 blah blah Mike Bossy PSA 10 - pop 1
Current people in the world that want that card = 3
Card goes for auction- 3 people bid, card sells for $35
pop2 gets graded.
Current people in the world that want that card = 2
Card goes for auction- 2 people bid, card sells for $20
pop3 gets graded
Current people in the world that want that card =1
Card goes to auction, 1 person bid, it sells for opening big of $9.99
DEMAND for that card is now 0. Nobody wants it, nobody cares about it. Its worth $0 to everyone else in the world.
pop4 comes out. What do you want the seller to do with this card?? put it in his ebay store for $40 and wait for a new mike bossy collector to come around?
His cost is irrelevant. he can put it on ebay at $99 or $5.99 and will get the same interest.
This is the case for all player sets and all 84 donruss commons and any other set where the supply is 100,000x the demand.
Lets take the 75 topps mini's for examle. The top 5 guys bid against each other and have every low pop common selling for hundreds of dollars. If today those same 5 guys would all decide to sell their sets because they need money, low pop 75 mini commons would be $10ea.
Also, if $3.99 with free shipping was such a super sweet deal, 4sc would have no cards in their inventory. The cards STILL DO NOT SELL at that price. Without demand, the value is 0. Their SUPER SWEET deal has absolutely nothing to do with it.
If you cant make back what you paid for grading fees on your subs and you are doing it as an investment then you simply do not understand the market and you are sending in the wrong cards.
it is exactly what I have been saying all along, or at least trying to...and I wasn't grousing about anything, I just stated my opinion on PSA giving super sweet deals that enable these bulk sellers to do this
And at least 6 people have said that was NOT the reason.
At least 6 people have tried to explain to you why this is not the only reason.
Super sweet deals are not the only reason why.
It is one factor I'll agree to that but it is NOT the only factor. People like you and I increase pops too and
that can lower the price/value of cards too. Stop blaming others because they get a better rate then you! They also have more overhead then you!
<< <i>You said: and I quoted you. "No, it just upsets me that these powersellers have the ability to dump cards for 3-4.00 each because PSA gave them a super deal, where other people, such as myself, would have to "dump" my cards for much higher to break even.
And then I said:
Does it bother you that these power sellers have overhead that you don't?
My meaning at the time was for them to have the ability to dump cards for 3 and 4.00 each they also must have overhead that we don't know about. After all to be able to sub thousands of cards in order to get sweet deals from PSA they have to buy more cards, travel to get cards, pay people possibly to pre grade cards, hold the cards in some sort of building where they pay rent , heat, cooling, etc etc etc
So what I tried to convey and you obviously missed was to get sweet deals from PSA they incur costs that you and I have no idea about.
So when you said " I don't care what their overhead is" I said " And they don't care what your rate to sub is'
You countered with "no they don't care"
Steve >>
Shouldn't they be selling their cards for more then in order to recoup these potential high overhead costs? And I seriously doubt PSA cares about their overhead while factoring in their substantial discount.
Maybe I should call PSA and take them up on their 500 for 5.00 bulk rate and explain to them that I spent a great deal of opportunity cost to acquire the cards, and I keep them stored in a nice cool place, and I pay people to sift through them for me...What do you think, you think they will give me an even better deal?
Comments
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<< <i>simple:
when liquidating graded common cards you look at the grading costs.
whoever got the best deal has the best price.
how does the collector, who especially in this economy, make anywhere near the return they had in the card if they were in a position where they had to sell to pay some bills?
there is nothing really wrong with bulk pricing but there is such thing as too good of a deal. >>
You don't seem to get it. Steve has been patiently trying to explain this, but it seems like you will not listen.
If a card drops in value from $35 to $4 that is NOT the 'bulk submitters' fault, and it is not the fault of PSA for giving the bulk subimtter a price that's better than the price you got. The reason this happens is because the quantity of cards has increased, and demand has remained fixed, which means the price GOES DOWN.
If you are paying $7 to have cards graded, and 4SC is paying $4, then the ONLY price shift that 4SC would be responsible for is the price drop from $7 to $4. The price drop from $35 to $7 is not attributable to 'bulk submitters'' business models, only to an increase in supply.
n >>
It is a combination of the two and right now these cards are selling for just about grading fees so it is all about who got the better deal. Obviously the 35 to 7 shift has something to do with the economy, but if you give sweet deals to companies and increase a pop of a card overnight, that too is cause for the price to drop significantly in such a short amount of time. >>
You still aren't listening. You have made some good points in this thread (especially regarding price expectations), and I think you're well intentioned, but you are not thinking this point through very clearly.
Let's say 4SC didn't get a price break, and they were paying $7 per card just like you. In this case they would still send the price down from $35 to $7. The fact that they get a price break only means they send the price down to $4 instead of $7. That $3 disparity is not what you've been complaining about, so you should see that the bulk pricing is not the issue that concerns you. What IS the issue is the mammoth supply of raw cards out there, and unfortunately there's nothing anyone can do about that. >>
That is exactly what I am saying.
they can sell their cards for 3.99 because of the sweet deal they got
I didn't get that deal so my cards will not sell.
the reason there are so many raw common cards making it to PSA slabs is because of this sweet deal, otherwise so many companies would not have invested in them.
You used to be able to put together a 50-ish card order with a few to sell to help recoup the cost for the ones you would like to keep, but how can you do that when the current market value of these cards is lower than the grading fee? How do you get away with selling cards so low?
The original poster asked how they can do this...answer: MASSIVE bulk submissions and liquidation due to slow market/demand. Also, people now expect these cards that sell for 3-5 dollars to be the value...I have received emails from people asking why I sell cards for 10.00 when they can get it for 5.00
<< <i>No, it just upsets me that these powersellers have the ability to dump cards for 3-4.00 each because PSA gave them a super deal, where other people, such as myself, would have to "dump" my cards for much higher to break even.
Does it bother you that these power sellers have overhead that you don't?
Steve >>
I could care less about their "overhead" for all we know they could be twins living in their parent's basement. If they are not then overhead is their problem, not mine. If they have too much of it then as businessmen they should scale back.
Steve
Just like they are saying his rate is his problem not mine........
Steve
<< <i>If they are not then overhead is their problem, not mine
Just like they are saying his rate is his problem not mine........
Steve >>
No, they probably are not even saying anything.
Another point I fail to understand? What makes you the overhead expert?
The original poster asked how they can do this...answer: MASSIVE bulk submissions and liquidation due to slow market/demand. Also, people now expect these cards that sell for 3-5 dollars to be the value...I have received emails from people asking why I sell cards for 10.00 when they can get it for 5.00
One other point that was not touched on here, suppose these massive submitters were able to get a few cards that paid
all the bills and made them money? The rest is gravy.
Steve
"Another point I fail to understand? What makes you the overhead expert"?
ummm that was not the point.......that makes 3 points that you failed to understand.
The bottom line here is simply you want the benefits that a massive submitter gets
You want to be able to make money on every sub, you want, you want, you want.
No one is stopping you from getting those same benefits. Sub more cards, get the price reduction.
Get a few cards that pay for the entire sub and so on.
Stop whining it really is getting tiresome.
Steve
price break they have been getting has made our collections worth zero! They can sell a 10.00 card for 5.00
and we can't. (Well we can if we want too but we need to hold out for top dollar.)
I should have just agreed with you 30 posts ago.
Steve
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection.
Scott I remember the one time my math was off and you really gave it to me.
When i went to school 1000 x 3.99 was not 40,000.
But I get the gist of your argument.
Steve
<< <i>1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $40,000
Scott I remember the one time my math was off and you really gave it to me.
When i went to school 1000 x 3.99 was not 40,000.
But I get the gist of your argument.
Steve >>
Steve, stop shooting at the guys with the same uniform on.
<< <i>"Another point I fail to understand? What makes you the overhead expert"?
ummm that was not the point.......that makes 3 points that you failed to understand. >>
You brought overhead into this, not me. Then say that it is a third point I fail to understand? What you fail to understand, along with overhead as that was obviously a dodge on your part, is the current downward spiraling of this market is based on some facts and opinion. My opinion is that 4sharp doesn't have much overhead on a card by card basis and this is because PSA gave them a super sweet deal. PSA can somewhat protect the value of their graded cards by not practically giving them away because once you give a card away then the customer (in this case 4sharp) can give them away too.
<< <i>The bottom line here is simply you want the benefits that a massive submitter gets[q/]
not true. I see nothing wrong with a fair price break of maybe 25 cents per card...but once you start grading cards for 50-75% less than what the majority are paying, then you begin to hurt the everyday collector who may want or need to sell his cards.
<< <i>You want to be able to make money on every sub, you want, you want, you want. >>
I don't want to make money, but I think I should at least be able to recoup grading fees without having people direct me to powersellers who are selling their items for more than half of my grading fees.
<< <i>No one is stopping you from getting those same benefits. Sub more cards, get the price reduction. >>
I'm not in this for the business.
Steve >>
And my point was (the one you missed) was you have NO IDEA what their overhead is !
You also have NO IDEA exactly what super sweet deal PSA gave them.
All you do know as fact is that a card can be priced at X when 1 is known and Y when the pop increases.
Every statement that you have made has been rebutted by no less then 5 people.
EVERY ONE.
Steve
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though
On one side of your mouth you say you are not in it as a business then in the same breath you complain
that customers email you why you are selling cards for 10.00 that others sell for 5.00!
lol Typical me me me
Steve
<< <i>My opinion is that 4sharp doesn't have much overhead on a card by card basis and this is because PSA gave them a super sweet deal.
And my point was (the one you missed) was you have NO IDEA what their overhead is !
You also have NO IDEA exactly what super sweet deal PSA gave them.
All you do know as fact is that a card can be priced at X when 1 is known and Y when the pop increases.
Every statement that you have made has been rebutted by no less then 5 people.
EVERY ONE.
Steve >>
Hey, I asked what makes you the overhead expert? You dodged it and said that I have no idea what it is.
So, every opinion that has been offered by me has been disproved? wow
<< <i>
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though >>
Are you really that dense? Do you hold on to losing lottery tickets hoping that the numbers will change?
BULK SUBMITTERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR PRICES DROPPING!!! Saying this is like blaming McDonald's for a decrease in beef prices when they run a promotion on burgers.
Just to help you out, repeat after me, "Today is Thursday, today is Thursday!" You'll be right once a week which is about as often as you'll be right in this thread!
<< <i>It's obvious that you just don't get it.
On one side of your mouth you say you are not in it as a business then in the same breath you complain
that customers email you why you are selling cards for 10.00 that others sell for 5.00!
lol Typical me me me
Steve >>
I'm not in it for the business...I sell a few things here and there to help recoup my subs, it is usually ideal to make more than you spend so that it helps pay for the cards you keep.
Hey, I offered an opinion and you, as well as others, brought "me me me" into this. You post more about "me" than I do.
<< <i>Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it? >>
I think he's probably a nice guy, and I've seen people on these boards who couldn't understand far more obvious points than this one, but it's true that seeing someone completely overlook this key fact is really frustrating.
If 4SC was paying $7 per card-- the same as you--then the value would drop from $40 to $7. As it stands, it drops from $40 to $4. Who cares about that extra $3?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though >>
Are you really that dense? Do you hold on to losing lottery tickets hoping that the numbers will change?
BULK SUBMITTERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR PRICES DROPPING!!! Saying this is like blaming McDonald's for a decrease in beef prices when they run a promotion on burgers.
Just to help you out, repeat after me, "Today is Thursday, today is Thursday!" You'll be right once a week which is about as often as you'll be right in this thread! >>
bulk submitters flood the market
they are able to do this because it cost them very little to get their cards graded
when people see cards sell for 3.00 then they won't buy them for 15.00
3.00 becomes about what the potential buyers will pay when they look for that card.
and actually, it is a good idea to hold onto losing lottery tickets, if you win you can write them off on your taxes. I only have one and that was when I bought it on my eighteenth birthday.
"Hey, I asked what makes you the overhead expert? You dodged it and said that I have no idea what it is"
I did not dodge anything.
Ok I'll bite do you? Do you know what thier over head is?
Even though that was not the point I was trying to make.
Yes Scott it appears he really is this dense.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it? >>
I think he's probably a nice guy, and I've seen people on these boards who couldn't understand far more obvious points than this one, but it's true that seeing someone completely overlook this key fact is really frustrating.
If 4SC was paying $7 per card-- the same as you--then the value would drop from $40 to $7. As it stands, it drops from $40 to $4. Who cares about that extra $3? >>
we are not talking about 40
or 35
if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card. The massive bulk submitter will move the card and the average collector will not..sad that at 4.00 they sill maybe are making profit.
That explains it. I'm done.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though >>
Are you really that dense? Do you hold on to losing lottery tickets hoping that the numbers will change?
BULK SUBMITTERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR PRICES DROPPING!!! Saying this is like blaming McDonald's for a decrease in beef prices when they run a promotion on burgers.
Just to help you out, repeat after me, "Today is Thursday, today is Thursday!" You'll be right once a week which is about as often as you'll be right in this thread! >>
bulk submitters flood the market
they are able to do this because it cost them very little to get their cards graded
when people see cards sell for 3.00 then they won't buy them for 15.00
3.00 becomes about what the potential buyers will pay when they look for that card.
and actually, it is a good idea to hold onto losing lottery tickets, if you win you can write them off on your taxes. I only have one and that was when I bought it on my eighteenth birthday. >>
This is, actually, a very good point, and one I agree with 100%. The issue of price expectation is relevant, and bulk submitters have done a fantastic job of f***ing that up. Note to random idiot bulk seller: If you see a George Brett PSA 10 go off for $99.99 on a $99.99 starting bid, and you have a bunch of Bretts you want to sell, DON'T START THEM AT $9.99 EACH.
Edit to add: You're dead wrong, though, when you suggest that the lower price they pay to have their cards graded is the reason they lower price expectations, for reasons that Scott (and others) have tried very hard to explain to you.
<< <i>and actually, it is a good idea to hold onto losing lottery tickets, if you win you can write them off on your taxes >>
...but it's a losing ticket
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it? >>
I think he's probably a nice guy, and I've seen people on these boards who couldn't understand far more obvious points than this one, but it's true that seeing someone completely overlook this key fact is really frustrating.
If 4SC was paying $7 per card-- the same as you--then the value would drop from $40 to $7. As it stands, it drops from $40 to $4. Who cares about that extra $3? >>
we are not talking about 40
or 35
if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card. The massive bulk submitter will move the card and the average collector will not..sad that at 4.00 they sill maybe are making profit. >>
That is correct. The bulk seller has squeezed you out of selling cards for between $4 and $7. But that is not what you were grousing about earlier in this thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Forget the submission price . . . Forget the overhead . . . Forget everything for just one minute.
If ANY submitter has excess inventory (which is the case in this example) and wishes to liquidate it to raise capital for further business, they CAN sell such inventory at a loss because they have already made profit on other material AND/OR they cannot make future profit on revenue that is sitting unsold in inventory. Whether they paid $7.00 or $4.00 per submission is not relavant except with regard to the amount of loss per card. What is relavant is that by selling 1000 cards at $3.99, the seller has generated nearly $4,000 in revenue to reinvest in their business or collection. The seller has NO OBLIGATION to the value of the cards or the value of anyone else's collection. >>
Yes, I know, they most likely are still making money on these cards or at least breaking even though >>
Are you really that dense? Do you hold on to losing lottery tickets hoping that the numbers will change?
BULK SUBMITTERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR PRICES DROPPING!!! Saying this is like blaming McDonald's for a decrease in beef prices when they run a promotion on burgers.
Just to help you out, repeat after me, "Today is Thursday, today is Thursday!" You'll be right once a week which is about as often as you'll be right in this thread! >>
bulk submitters flood the market
they are able to do this because it cost them very little to get their cards graded
when people see cards sell for 3.00 then they won't buy them for 15.00
3.00 becomes about what the potential buyers will pay when they look for that card.
and actually, it is a good idea to hold onto losing lottery tickets, if you win you can write them off on your taxes. I only have one and that was when I bought it on my eighteenth birthday. >>
This is, actually, a very good point, and one I agree with 100%. The issue of price expectation is relevant, and bulk submitters have done a fantastic job of f***ing that up. Note to random idiot bulk seller: If you see a George Brett PSA 10 go off for $99.99 on a $99.99 starting bid, and you have a bunch of Bretts you want to sell, DON'T START THEM AT $9.99 EACH.
Edit to add: You're dead wrong, though, when you suggest that the lower price they pay to have their cards graded is the reason they lower price expectations, for reasons that Scott (and others) have tried very hard to explain to you. >>
....finally
Lets say you have 200.00 in losing tickets and then you win 500.00 you can write off 200.00
and claim 300.00 in winnings for tax purposes.
Steve
if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card.
Not all the time, both could be graded the same, but one appears nicer then the other.
Steve
<< <i>Matt
Lets say you have 200.00 in losing tickets and then you win 500.00 you can write off 200.00
and claim 300.00 in winnings for tax purposes.
Steve >>
Ah..I see.
Thanks Steve
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>"Hey, I asked what makes you the overhead expert? You dodged it and said that I have no idea what it is"
I did not dodge anything.
Ok I'll bite do you? Do you know what thier over head is?
Even though that was not the point I was trying to make.
Yes Scott it appears he really is this dense.
Steve >>
I don't know 4Sharps overhead, but I know what overhead is and as a customer I don't care to know what they spend on advertising or rent or anything like that. If they are paying too much overhead then they need to reconsider how they do business.
<< <i>Matt
Lets say you have 200.00 in losing tickets and then you win 500.00 you can write off 200.00
and claim 300.00 in winnings for tax purposes.
Steve >>
But Steve, he's saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against a potential future winnings that would be taxable. Since winnings in most states are not reported unless they exceed $1000.00, isn't saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against $1000+ just as foolish as complaining about someone getting a better deal and trying to enhance profit in their business model?
It's a good thing for owners of common graded cards,
when the number of raw cards submitted declines.
Trading cards submitted to PSA
Jan - Mar 2008
327,000
Jan - Mar 2009
273,000
(Declared insured-values were way down, too.)
....................
Folks who think any of the CLCT divisions could afford
to cut prices, can get their reality check at the link.
Seeking Alpha
//////////////////////////////////////////////////
Placing blame on PSA for the increase in graded cards is
off base. The submitters decide how many cards will be
graded.
Poor planning on the part of submitters resulted in a glut.
Once that inventory has been dumped, maybe the market
will start a long/slow recovery. Maybe not. I dunno.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Mullins5, what sort of system would make you happy?
Even if everyone paid the same submission fee, your Bossy cards would still go from low pop to high pop and fall in value. If you paid $40 for a low pop card, who's value was tied up in the fact that it was "low pop", and 10 more got graded after it, you'll never get that $40 back. You threw it away. Period.
Also, if 4sc can't move inventory at $5 a pop, what should they do with it? >>
I think he's probably a nice guy, and I've seen people on these boards who couldn't understand far more obvious points than this one, but it's true that seeing someone completely overlook this key fact is really frustrating.
If 4SC was paying $7 per card-- the same as you--then the value would drop from $40 to $7. As it stands, it drops from $40 to $4. Who cares about that extra $3? >>
we are not talking about 40
or 35
if there are two cards on eBay, and both sellers just want to recoup cost, the buyer will buy the 4.00 card over the 7.00 card. The massive bulk submitter will move the card and the average collector will not..sad that at 4.00 they sill maybe are making profit. >>
That is correct. The bulk seller has squeezed you out of selling cards for between $4 and $7. But that is not what you were grousing about earlier in this thread. >>
it is exactly what I have been saying all along, or at least trying to...and I wasn't grousing about anything, I just stated my opinion on PSA giving super sweet deals that enable these bulk sellers to do this
<< <i>But Steve, he's saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against a potential future winnings that would be taxable. Since winnings in most states are not reported unless they exceed $1000.00, isn't saving a $1.00 ticket to write off against $1000+ just as foolish as complaining about someone getting a better deal and trying to enhance profit in their business model? >>
You have to be eighteen to buy lottery tickets, so when I bought my first, and only one, I kept it.
kinda like how people collect cards
I don't know 4Sharps overhead, but I know what overhead is and as a customer I don't care to know what they spend on advertising or rent or anything like that. If they are paying too much overhead then they need to reconsider how they do business.
Ok, and I'll try and answer this post like I did then, like you don't care what their overhead is they don't care what YOU have to pay per card for grading.
Do you know understand?
Steve
lol. I was just trying to explain why someone would save losing tickets.
And yes I agree.
Stev
<< <i>I don't know 4Sharps overhead, but I know what overhead is and as a customer I don't care to know what they spend on advertising or rent or anything like that. If they are paying too much overhead then they need to reconsider how they do business.
Ok, and I'll try and answer this post like I did then, like you don't care what their overhead is they don't care what YOU have to pay per card for grading.
Do you know understand?
Steve >>
and like I have said before, THEY probably are not saying anything about me...
and why should somebody who gets there cards graded so low care anyways? obviously they know they pay less than I
And then I said:
Does it bother you that these power sellers have overhead that you don't?
My meaning at the time was for them to have the ability to dump cards for 3 and 4.00 each they also must have overhead that we don't know about. After all to be able to sub thousands of cards in order to get sweet
deals from PSA they have to buy more cards, travel to get cards, pay people possibly to pre grade cards, hold the cards in some sort of building where they pay rent , heat, cooling, etc etc etc
So what I tried to convey and you obviously missed was to get sweet deals from PSA they incur costs that you and I have no idea about.
So when you said " I don't care what their overhead is" I said " And they don't care what your rate to sub is'
You countered with "no they don't care"
Steve
I have to explain this too?
I refuse too.
Steve
Earlier I believe it was stated that it was sad that even at their low prices they may be making a profit. It is not them who need to reconsider how they do business. This reminds me of those who complain about Wal-Mart putting small stores out of business. The situation is what it is. Wal-Mart is not going away and neither is 4SC.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
PSA giving them a price break has nothing to do with why they can afford to sell cards for $4.00. The market dictates that.
For example.
They send in 50 1984 topps eric dickerson rookies and for argument sake they got 50 10s.
they sell the first 5 for $150+
The next 10 sell for $100ea
the next 10 sell for $50 ea
the next 10 sell for $20 ea
They put the last 5 in their store for $3.99ea
Their price per card has nothing to do with them selling cards for $3 or $7. They already made all their money on those cards.
The people that need psa graded modern cards is finite and in fact extremely limited.
Do a vcp search on a 1984 donruss tom hume and see how the 1st sells for $1300 and the 5th sells for $20.00
The guy that sold it for 20 didnt kill the market on that card. Everyone who wanted it got it and now you have a product that has 0 demand.
You might be one of 3 mike bossy collectors out there who collects psa graded cards. Purely arbitrary number but lets use it for this example.
1985 blah blah Mike Bossy PSA 10 - pop 1
Current people in the world that want that card = 3
Card goes for auction- 3 people bid, card sells for $35
pop2 gets graded.
Current people in the world that want that card = 2
Card goes for auction- 2 people bid, card sells for $20
pop3 gets graded
Current people in the world that want that card =1
Card goes to auction, 1 person bid, it sells for opening big of $9.99
DEMAND for that card is now 0. Nobody wants it, nobody cares about it. Its worth $0 to everyone else in the world.
pop4 comes out.
What do you want the seller to do with this card?? put it in his ebay store for $40 and wait for a new mike bossy collector to come around?
His cost is irrelevant. he can put it on ebay at $99 or $5.99 and will get the same interest.
This is the case for all player sets and all 84 donruss commons and any other set where the supply is 100,000x the demand.
Lets take the 75 topps mini's for examle. The top 5 guys bid against each other and have every low pop common selling for hundreds of dollars. If today those same 5 guys would all decide to sell their sets because they need money, low pop 75 mini commons would be $10ea.
Also, if $3.99 with free shipping was such a super sweet deal, 4sc would have no cards in their inventory. The cards STILL DO NOT SELL at that price. Without demand, the value is 0. Their SUPER SWEET deal has absolutely nothing to do with it.
If you cant make back what you paid for grading fees on your subs and you are doing it as an investment then you simply do not understand the market and you are sending in the wrong cards.
it is exactly what I have been saying all along, or at least trying to...and I wasn't grousing about anything, I just stated my opinion on PSA giving super sweet deals that enable these bulk sellers to do this
And at least 6 people have said that was NOT the reason.
At least 6 people have tried to explain to you why this is not the only reason.
Super sweet deals are not the only reason why.
It is one factor I'll agree to that but it is NOT the only factor. People like you and I increase pops too and
that can lower the price/value of cards too. Stop blaming others because they get a better rate then you! They also have more overhead then you!
Steve
Steve
<< <i>You said: and I quoted you. "No, it just upsets me that these powersellers have the ability to dump cards for 3-4.00 each because PSA gave them a super deal, where other people, such as myself, would have to "dump" my cards for much higher to break even.
And then I said:
Does it bother you that these power sellers have overhead that you don't?
My meaning at the time was for them to have the ability to dump cards for 3 and 4.00 each they also must have overhead that we don't know about. After all to be able to sub thousands of cards in order to get sweet
deals from PSA they have to buy more cards, travel to get cards, pay people possibly to pre grade cards, hold the cards in some sort of building where they pay rent , heat, cooling, etc etc etc
So what I tried to convey and you obviously missed was to get sweet deals from PSA they incur costs that you and I have no idea about.
So when you said " I don't care what their overhead is" I said " And they don't care what your rate to sub is'
You countered with "no they don't care"
Steve >>
Shouldn't they be selling their cards for more then in order to recoup these potential high overhead costs? And I seriously doubt PSA cares about their overhead while factoring in their substantial discount.
Maybe I should call PSA and take them up on their 500 for 5.00 bulk rate and explain to them that I spent a great deal of opportunity cost to acquire the cards, and I keep them stored in a nice cool place, and I pay people to sift through them for me...What do you think, you think they will give me an even better deal?