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GOLD AND SILVER, ECONOMIC NEWS, COINS, 2009 forward

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  • It won't be any different until we see some real effort in Washington (that means hosing the middle class) to reduce the debt.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The national debt is currently $13.6 trillion plus, and the debt ceiling is $14.3 trillion.

    How will the new Congress vote next year when the debt ceiling "needs" to be increased? What will happen if the increase doesn't pass?

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    USD up AND Au at the same time

    gotta be some beginning of something
  • My favorite line " If you try to take my gold I will shoot you in the face"image
    A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore.
    Yogi Berra

  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    As the Government prints money, it is stealing value from all of the folks

    on fixed incomes. This money is then given to financial enterprises so that

    they can pay billions in bonuses and wages, to the folks who caused the problem

    in the first place.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why gold is/isn't an investment......http://www.safehaven.com/article/18970/midas-crush-marketw@tch-attempts-to-explain-why-gold-is-a-bad-investment

    Mish, who is no gold bug, handles the typical retorts about gold. I particularly enjoyed reading some of those imbedded links within the article. At least no one commented that you couldn't eat it. So that's an improvement.

    You'll have to paste the link since it's from market....watch...after correcting the spelling. You'd think the forum could somehow program in an exception for cases like this.

    Why people don't buy gold

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Are we about to get hit in the aircraft industry now? Personally I wouldn't buy ANYTHING that requires safety from the chinese. If you all saw the crap, absolute garbage they produce in terms of motorbikes etc, you would never get on a chinese made aircraft.

    But some don't feel the same way.


    China Announces 100 Commercial Airplane Orders
    China Announces 100 Commercial Airplane Orders Breaking Airbus-Boeing Grip






  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Are we about to get hit in the aircraft industry now? Personally I wouldn't buy ANYTHING that requires safety from the chinese. If you all saw the crap, absolute garbage they produce in terms of motorbikes etc, you would never get on a chinese made aircraft.

    But some don't feel the same way.


    China Announces 100 Commercial Airplane Orders
    China Announces 100 Commercial Airplane Orders Breaking Airbus-Boeing Grip >>




    There's zero chance you'll fly on a Chinese made aircraft within the US in your lifetime. AAMF, the regional jet (the ARJ-21) mentioned in the article recently failed a wing stress test and the wing will have to be redesigned and is years away from any commercial delivery.
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Are we about to get hit in the aircraft industry now? Personally I wouldn't buy ANYTHING that requires safety from the chinese. If you all saw the crap, absolute garbage they produce in terms of motorbikes etc, you would never get on a chinese made aircraft.

    But some don't feel the same way.


    China Announces 100 Commercial Airplane Orders
    China Announces 100 Commercial Airplane Orders Breaking Airbus-Boeing Grip >>




    There's zero chance you'll fly on a Chinese made aircraft within the US in your lifetime. AAMF, the regional jet (the ARJ-21) mentioned in the article recently failed a wing stress test and the wing will have to be redesigned and is years away from any commercial delivery. >>




    I would like to believe that however Payoffs and bribes to politicians will overrule any logic you can come up with. Further, most people thought there was zero chance that Americans would get to a point where they could not even afford to BUY a car. But we sure have seen that in recent years. Also never thought this place would be looked upon like Mordor to people around the world but that sure has happened, most people never thought we would lose our domestic automobile business but that's gone. GE bought some of those planes .

    This place has a ways to drop. Now if you could show me proof that 20% of the population that was AGAINST the warfare-welfare state, then I'd say we have something to be optimistic about.

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So much for the theory that people won't buy gold jewelry at lofty prices.

    India's gold demand up 28% for 3rd qtr - or 229 tons total says World Gold Council

    What people tend to forget about our central bank:

    Central Bank facts

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Wow,

    People in India are choosing to put their paper money into gold, mainly jewelry.

    Do Indians like silver?
    I still call my accumulation my collection!


  • << <i>Meanwhile:

    The Future of Detroit >>



    I don't remember where, but I read a while ago that Detroit is one of the city that will not exist anymore in 100 years.

    In the meantime, Detroit Neighboring City Of Hamtramck Asks For Permission To File For Bankruptcy


  • << <i>

    << <i>Meanwhile:

    The Future of Detroit >>



    I don't remember where, but I read a while ago that Detroit is one of the city that will not exist anymore in 100 years.

    In the meantime, Detroit Neighboring City Of Hamtramck Asks For Permission To File For Bankruptcy >>




    Found it.

    "Take Detroit, Michigan, where the population has decreased by more than half since 1950, and now equals about 910,000. It could shrink slowly but steadily for decades to come; unemployment inside the city is more than 13%. Even if it doesn't disappear, if trends hold, Detroit may be altered beyond recognition by 2100."


  • << <i>
    "Take Detroit, Michigan, where the population has decreased by more than half since 1950, and now equals about 910,000. It could shrink slowly but steadily for decades to come; unemployment inside the city is more than 13%. Even if it doesn't disappear, if trends hold, Detroit may be altered beyond recognition by 2100." >>




    U.S. Census Bureau has Detroit's Population,
    2000 .... 951,270
    2006 .... 871,121 (estimate)
    2010 .... we can only guess
  • ksammutksammut Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow,

    People in India are choosing to put their paper money into gold, mainly jewelry.

    Do Indians like silver? >>



    Yes. Many Indians see that silver may be a safer investment than gold. They understand that their country will need more silver as their industry grows and expands. This is true of many developing countries. They seem to get it more than many of us here in the US. Between greater industry use and investor demand worldwide, the price of silver should continue to rise.

    Here is a link from the Silver Institute:

    Silver Institute Silver Supply and Demand - 2009

    You can also google articles about Indians and the Chinese investing in silver.
    American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page

    Instagram - numismatistkenny

    My Numismatics with Kenny Blog Page Best viewed on a laptop or monitor.

    ANA Life Member & Volunteer District Representative

    2019 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year

    Doing my best to introduce Young Numismatists and Young Adults into the hobby.

  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Ultimately, it becomes a contest for resources...water, PM, timber, copper, etc. The political crap and negotiating about human rights and weapons treaties are all dust in the wind, it's about resources...who has them, who needs them, and how does the exchange take place. In history, it is easier to just take them and the biggest dog gets the most resources and the population grows and the leaders are popular and life is good. History is a good teacher.
  • ksammutksammut Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Ultimately, it becomes a contest for resources...water, PM, timber, copper, etc. The political crap and negotiating about human rights and weapons treaties are all dust in the wind, it's about resources...who has them, who needs them, and how does the exchange take place. In history, it is easier to just take them and the biggest dog gets the most resources and the population grows and the leaders are popular and life is good. History is a good teacher. >>



    Sad but very true.
    American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page

    Instagram - numismatistkenny

    My Numismatics with Kenny Blog Page Best viewed on a laptop or monitor.

    ANA Life Member & Volunteer District Representative

    2019 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year

    Doing my best to introduce Young Numismatists and Young Adults into the hobby.

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fed Foreign Holdings of Treasury, Agency Debt this past week (ended 11/17) rose $4.9bn (23-wk gain of $265bn) to a record $3.341 TN. "Custody holdings" have increased $386bn y-t-d (14.8% annualized), with a one-year rise of $413bn, or 14.1%.

    M2 (narrow) "money" supply jumped $16bn to $8.802 TN. Narrow "money" has increased $277bn y-t-d, or 3.6% annualized. Over the past year, M2 grew 3.3%. For the week, Currency added $1.5bn, and Demand & Checkable Deposits jumped $90.4bn. Savings Deposits dropped $70bn, and Small Denominated Deposits declined $4.8bn. Retail Money Fund assets dipped $0.8bn.

    Global central bank "international reserve assets" (excluding gold) - as tallied by Bloomberg's Alex Tanzi - were up $1.520 TN y-o-y, or 20.2%, to a record $9.034 TN.


    These facts were taken from Doug Noland's weekly article on www.safehaven.com. While M2 growth seems relatively under control at 3.3% annual, I get a sick feeling watching the FED's custody holdings go up about $400 BILL each year for the past few years. 14% rise this past year. And how are the central banks gaining 20% on their non-gold international reserves with such a small USA M2 growth? Something tells me there is a "flation" at play here.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    N & S Korea How will this effect PM's?
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    So far today - negatively. It's just another trading day.

    The big $ and govts understand the N Korean ruse.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,102 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Wow,

    People in India are choosing to put their paper money into gold, mainly jewelry.

    Do Indians like silver? >>



    Yes. Many Indians see that silver may be a safer investment than gold. They understand that their country will need more silver as their industry grows and expands. This is true of many developing countries. They seem to get it more than many of us here in the US. Between greater industry use and investor demand worldwide, the price of silver should continue to rise.

    Here is a link from the Silver Institute:

    Silver Institute Silver Supply and Demand - 2009

    You can also google articles about Indians and the Chinese investing in silver. >>





    Considering that an ounce of gold is equal to 3 months salary for the average Indian worker, what choice do they have?
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,115 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Considering that an ounce of gold is equal to 3 months salary for the average Indian worker, what choice do they have? >>



    Saving. Ever since $400 gold the pundits have said that India will stop buying gold because it is too expensive, but rising gold prices have yet to really suppress demand from that country.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Considering that an ounce of gold is equal to 3 months salary for the average Indian worker, what choice do they have?

    1/10th ozers.image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why would the gold demand be tied to the "average" Indian worker's wage? Isn't that akin to saying that USA investor/jewelry gold demand is directly tied to average US worker pay? I'm sure the Indian versions of George Soros or John Paulson aren't earning the average wage.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,102 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Why would the gold demand be tied to the "average" Indian worker's wage? Isn't that akin to saying that USA investor/jewelry gold demand is directly tied to average US worker pay? I'm sure the Indian versions of George Soros or John Paulson aren't earning the average wage.

    roadrunner >>




    All the stories I hear about Indian demand is due to weddings or other nonesense. How many times is the Indian version of Soros getting married?

    J6P aint buying any gold for the wifey this year. Some jewelers are already scrapping inventory. As anecdotal evidence, I traded some silver rounds to my B&M for a 25dwt 14k necklace that a jeweler had brought in.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,102 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>China, Russia quit dollar >>



    I guess China forgot that Russia defaulted just over a decade ago.

    I'll PM my address to anyone who doesnt want their dollars anymore. I'll even pay shipping.image
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All the stories I hear about Indian demand is due to weddings or other nonesense. How many times is the Indian version of Soros getting married? J6P aint buying any gold for the wifey this year. Some jewelers are already scrapping inventory.

    That's the beauty of a Soros, Paulson, Buffet or JPMorgan wedding. It only takes a few of them to make a "worlds" difference. How much silver did Buffet accumulate before the world caught on? 120 MILL ounces or basically 40% of an SLV. There are lots of Buffet types out there who have kept a much lower profile. Nonsense or not, Indian demand was up 28% this past quarter. Someone is buying the gold at these higher levels. J6P not buying gold for Wifey that past 2 yrs has had zero impact on the gold market. In fact even selling off much of the scrap US jewelry the past 2 yrs. has hardly dented the demand for gold. The Joe6P, Jahan6P, and Joe Jeweler gold scrap mining operation in 2009-2010 was probably the largest "miner" producer of gold in the world. Still didn't dent the demand curve. The fact that US jewelers are selling items for scrap only shows that just as in US coins, bullionesque items will slowly but surely be swallowed up by a rising gold price. While finished US jewelry may no longer be in fierce demand due the insane premiums normally assigned and J6P having little extra cash, the demand for that jewelry as scrap is still insatiable. I'd be curious to know the premium that Indian jewelers typically charge for their product. One would suspect it's much closer to melt considering that the Indians treat gold much more like a currency than in the US.

    I'd have to agree on the lineage of the Russian rouble. That's one agreement I wouldn't want to be locked into.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    I found that in larger Indian communities (US based), where there is robust competition between jewelry shops, generally 10% markup over spot on 22k (at least 15gr++, smaller pieces are priced much higher - by the piece)

    That's for machine made goods, anything handmade or with gems is of course priced higher.

    Lately, i've noticed that the initial pricing is more like 20-30% over, and you have to bargain your way back to 10%.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The EU agrees to bail out Ireland.



    Ireland link

    The public response was massive protests against the austerity measure required by the bailout.
    (see below)
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    cohodk,

    the Indians do "stack" their wealth in jewelry, where J6P stacks his in empty aluminum cans. the 'average' Indian is of couse far down the totem system and stacks his in cow pies.
  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who still thinks we're in deflation?
    `12 Days of Christmas' items' cost nears $100,000
    Holiday price index: Cost of `12 Days of Christmas' items nears $100K, a 10.8 percent increase
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Has anyone noticed the number of those little ads on the top and sides of the web pages that are about buying or selling silver and gold? The ads are everywhere now. I think we have talked about this before.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Who still thinks we're in deflation?
    `12 Days of Christmas' items' cost nears $100,000
    Holiday price index: Cost of `12 Days of Christmas' items nears $100K, a 10.8 percent increase >>


    This ignores the substitution effect. Due to price increases, I plan to buy fewer French hens and more partridges. image

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Exclusive: WikiLeaks Will Unveil Major Bank Scandal

    This will ROCK the US economy and send gold flying, if it's as big as Forbes says it is.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Exclusive: WikiLeaks Will Unveil Major Bank Scandal

    This will ROCK the US economy and send gold flying, if it's as big as Forbes says it is. >>



    But not until after the first of the year.......
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Has anyone noticed the number of those little ads on the top and sides of the web pages that are about buying or selling silver and gold? The ads are everywhere now. I think we have talked about this before

    Yes, but from a percentage standpoint, the total financial market investment of PM's is <10% of what it was at previous blow-off tops. The market cap of Google is larger than all the larger gold and silver miners combined.

    Silver doesn't looked "cooked." Rather it's cookin' at the moment.

    If WikiLeaks springs some leaks before year end, the name of the bank in question might start filtering out into the media.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I get a lot of these pop-ups, but ... keep in mind that web marketers can track our interests and target ads to us, so people on these boards likely get a larger percentage of precious metals pop-ups than average.
    Higashiyama
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    AMPEX is on about every site I go to. I'm thinking they are buying bulk server space?
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • PreTurbPreTurb Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭
    So... What is happening in Europe, and what is GOING to happen? Are never-ending worldwide "bailouts" going to fix everything?
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    Obama Appoints Geithner, Lew to Negotiate on Tax Cutslink
    Tim Geithner debating politics? Since when is a Treasury Secretary's job encompass this???
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From the Sinclair site today. A description of current western banking:

    The Donkey

    Young Paddy bought a donkey from a farmer for £100.
    The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day…
    The next day he drove up and said, ‘Sorry son, but I have some bad news. The Donkey has died.’
    Paddy replied, ‘Well then just give me my money back.’
    The farmer said, ‘Can’t do that. I’ve already spent it.’
    Paddy said, ‘OK, then, just bring me the dead donkey.’
    The farmer asked, ‘What are you going to do with him?’
    Paddy said, ‘I’m going to raffle him off.’
    The farmer said, ‘You can’t raffle a dead donkey!’
    Paddy said, ‘Sure I can. Watch me. I just won’t tell anybody he’s dead.’
    A month later, the farmer met up with Paddy and asked, ‘What happened with that dead donkey?’
    Paddy said, ‘I raffled him off.
    I sold 500 tickets at two pounds a piece and made a profit of £898′
    The farmer said, ‘Didn’t anyone complain?’
    Paddy said, ‘Just the guy who won.
    So I gave him his two pounds back.’


    roadrunner

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • 1jester1jester Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭
    I don't know if this has been posted before (I haven't seen it) but of course the underlying arguments have; in any case, this is a well-written and well argued case for $6000 silver. Or much higher.

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
  • 1jester1jester Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭
    The real reason for the China-Russia currency trade agreement - OIL. If I'm not mistaken, one of the main reasons for the invasion of Iraq was to continue to force the dollar-for-oil regime, as Iraq had just arranged to sell oil for Euros, or something like that. So the war was not so much to steal their oil (though that was a serious bonus!) as it was to support the dollar's hegemony. And the consistent threats to invade Iran have been possibly caused by Iran's intentions to host a non-dollar-based oil trading platform. Am I far off base? The deal between China and Russia is a brilliant move to dethrone the USD once and for all. At the very least, it is one more nail in the coffin of the Fed.

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
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