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GOLD AND SILVER, ECONOMIC NEWS, COINS, 2009 forward

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  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Urban Myth of Deflation

    Most interesting is the chart that shows US bank credit is expanding.
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭
    Ok, so the dollar defaults and becomes devalued to 0. Will the government than in act price controls from everything to your salary, food, energy... and does it have the constitutional authority to do so? How will it reset the dollar? Technically they still will collect roughly 2.5 trillion a year in taxes, I believe this is the current yearly rate. I believe WWWIII will happen if they decide not to honor any of our foreign owned debt, but if they did the U.S. would become an isolationist nation.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Besides bank credit expanding, we also have money supply, CCI/CRB, CPI, and otc derivative's supply increasing. Yes there was a small dip in CPI in 2009, but that seems like ancient history now as well. The QE2 has set sail once again. Peter Degraaf discusses inflation in the below article along with some substantiating graphs. PD has an excellent record on calling the PM's moves over the past 5 yrs. Still, I'm not one to chase PM's higher from here.

    Addressing gold and silver vs. inflation

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "Ok, so the dollar defaults and becomes devalued to 0. Will the government than in act price controls from everything to your salary, food, energy... and does it have the constitutional authority to do so? How will it reset the dollar? Technically they still will collect roughly 2.5 trillion a year in taxes, I believe this is the current yearly rate."

    Probably similar to when they stopped issuing gold certificates and replaced them with frn's. Just reissue the new currency and value it at something, backed by nothing, like we have now. We could call them O-dolla's. Maybe, you could get one O-dolla for 100 frn's or something like that.
    U S Gold Certificates 1882-1933
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭
    Gas prices up 10 cents in less than a week already. Signs of inflation and the weakening dollar?
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Did anyone catch "China Reviewed" or something like that on a&e yesterday? It showed the lives of several Chinese and how there lives have changed in the last few years. It truly is amazing as China loosens the socialism the place is going bonkers financially.
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Finally, we don't get raked for 2% for using cash. Using cash, you pay the same amount as you pay with a credit card yet the cards (MC, Visa, Amex) rake the merchant for swiping fees that actually are paid in higher prices to customers for purchases. The cards had an exclusive use agreement with the merchant agreement that disallows the merchants to offer discounts for cash or checks. Now us cash users will finally have the edge that we deserve. Article doesn't seem to have hit main stream yet so here ya' go. Score one for the people.

    End to credit cards non-compete agreement with cash
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Finally, we don't get raked for 2% for using cash. Using cash, you pay the same amount as you pay with a credit card yet the cards (MC, Visa, Amex) rake the merchant for swiping fees that actually are paid in higher prices to customers for purchases. The cards had an exclusive use agreement with the merchant agreement that disallows the merchants to offer discounts for cash or checks. Now us cash users will finally have the edge that we deserve. Article doesn't seem to have hit main stream yet so here ya' go. Score one for the people.

    End to credit cards non-compete agreement with cash >>



    Cool. image

    They've not only been stealing money from me to pay for the credit card
    industry and using my money to illegally call me at home to sign up for more
    credit cards but then they use my damn money to flood my mailbox with
    solicitations. If all this weren't bad enough they then appropriate my money
    to give back to their customers in cash or free airplane trips.

    A disproportionate number of those who use cash and lack credit cards are
    poor so the poor have been subsidizing the rich with these agreements for
    decades. My guess is the agreements were illegal on multiple levels.
    Tempus fugit.
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭
    And they just decided to sue now. They could have done this years ago. One cause: pure corruption of government. Shame on the Justice Department.
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Finally, we don't get raked for 2% for using cash. Using cash, you pay the same amount as you pay with a credit card yet the cards (MC, Visa, Amex) rake the merchant for swiping fees that actually are paid in higher prices to customers for purchases. The cards had an exclusive use agreement with the merchant agreement that disallows the merchants to offer discounts for cash or checks. Now us cash users will finally have the edge that we deserve. Article doesn't seem to have hit main stream yet so here ya' go. Score one for the people.

    End to credit cards non-compete agreement with cash >>



    Cool. image

    They've not only been stealing money from me to pay for the credit card
    industry and using my money to illegally call me at home to sign up for more
    credit cards but then they use my damn money to flood my mailbox with
    solicitations. If all this weren't bad enough they then appropriate my money
    to give back to their customers in cash or free airplane trips.

    A disproportionate number of those who use cash and lack credit cards are
    poor so the poor have been subsidizing the rich with these agreements for
    decades. My guess is the agreements were illegal on multiple levels. >>




    Cladking, are you objecting to the practices of the credit card companies or the fact that the so-called rich wisely take advantage of credit card perks?

    I've gotten over $1,500 back this year from Discover and paid about $150 in interest. Is that an example of the poor subsidizing the rich?
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Finally, we don't get raked for 2% for using cash. Using cash, you pay the same amount as you pay with a credit card yet the cards (MC, Visa, Amex) rake the merchant for swiping fees that actually are paid in higher prices to customers for purchases. The cards had an exclusive use agreement with the merchant agreement that disallows the merchants to offer discounts for cash or checks. Now us cash users will finally have the edge that we deserve. Article doesn't seem to have hit main stream yet so here ya' go. Score one for the people.

    End to credit cards non-compete agreement with cash >>



    people will begin to abandon electronic banking of all types which will help fuel a lack of trust in our financial system, ie hyperinflation
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭
    I take advantage of my Discover card too, but I think the days of these perks is soon coming to an end.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>
    Cladking, are you objecting to the practices of the credit card companies or the fact that the so-called rich wisely take advantage of credit card perks?

    I've gotten over $1,500 back this year from Discover and paid about $150 in interest. Is that an example of the poor subsidizing the rich? >>



    Yes, it is. It costs money to operate credit card companies and this cost is bourne
    disproportionately by the poor. Credit card companies also waste vast resourses
    filling up people's mailboxes with dead trees and bright colors and this cost is paid
    by those who use cash as well.

    If credit card companies can't provide a service that is worth what it costs then they
    shouldn't be in business at all.

    While you got $1500 back someone who spent as much as you had to pay an extra
    $6000 above and beyond what their purchases were worth. The credit card company
    operated on $4500 of that and gave you the balance.

    This isn't to say it's your fault just that no entity should be allowed to rip people off
    and targeting the poor is especially onerous.
    Tempus fugit.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭✭
    On the bright side coin production will recover sooner so there will
    be more interesting coins circulating.
    Tempus fugit.
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭
    The consumer is what is keeping Credit Card Companies in business. The only way to end their plight is if the consumer changes their purchasing habits and use cash. That will never happen. If and when we enter a Depression we may see an end to them-just wishful thinking-not the depression part.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The consumer is what is keeping Credit Card Companies in business. The only way to end their plight is if the consumer changes their purchasing habits and use cash. That will never happen. If and when we enter a Depression we may see an end to them-just wishful thinking-not the depression part. >>



    I agree completely but with a 2% discount for checks and cash there
    will be a lot more cash purchases. Who'd want .5% back on their card
    when they can get 2% right now.
    Tempus fugit.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are many hot button topics on Sinclair's website today. A lot of things coming up all at once. If you don't normally read it, today is a good day to catch up. I took 5 minutes to watch the Ron Paul video about the FED/gold standard topics and found it to be quite clear and sensible. Too bad the people that really need to understand this won't watch past the words "gold" or "gold standard."

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Bank of Japan’s (BoJ) currency intervention which occurred yesterday marks a major turning point in the financial crisis. Going forward, the key issue for the financial markets will be currency interventions. Japan’s move can, in a sense, be seen as an open declaration of war between the BoJ, the Federal Reserve, and other Central Bankers. Is it possible to go back in time and put Obama on the Titanic?
    Many successful BST transactions ajia
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    mariner67, and Mikes coins
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Heads up on the GSR, it is getting more interesting.
  • ksammutksammut Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭
    Gold and Vietnam

    But on a supportive note for gold, state media in Vietnam reported that Asia's second largest bullion consumer after India would grant licenses and quotas to import gold, which was banned in mid-2008 as policymakers attempted to tackle the country's trade deficit.

    "People are going to focus on the fact that the Asian physical market will be tight. Last time Vietnam opened the door to gold imports, gold went up $20. In percentage terms, it could translate into $30 today," said a Singapore-based trader.

    American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page

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  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Gold and Vietnam

    But on a supportive note for gold, state media in Vietnam reported that Asia's second largest bullion consumer after India would grant licenses and quotas to import gold, which was banned in mid-2008 as policymakers attempted to tackle the country's trade deficit.

    "People are going to focus on the fact that the Asian physical market will be tight. Last time Vietnam opened the door to gold imports, gold went up $20. In percentage terms, it could translate into $30 today," said a Singapore-based trader. >>




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  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭
    Ok. So I take a stroll to the Inner Harbor in Baltimore during lunch and I notice hardly any crowds at the Aquarium, and a not so crowded Promenade. I go to the food pavillion, where I frequent a Chines Food Food stall and it is closed along with the other food vendors on the second floor. About 4-5 food vendors have closed down. Just last month, at lunchtime these were all open and seemed to be doing good business, the Aquarium had lines at the ticket window, the Promenade was bustling. A lot can change in a month I guess. These food vendors have been in business for the last 4-5 years.
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    New Video we have also placed on US Rare Coin Investments coin articles section:

    Ron Paul: U.S. Heading for Soviet-Style Economic Collapse
    Ron Paul: U.S. Heading for Soviet-Style Economic Collapse


    I have had a banner to Dr Paul's website on the homepage of my website for a long time now.
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭


    << <i>New Video we have also placed on US Rare Coin Investments coin articles section:

    Ron Paul: U.S. Heading for Soviet-Style Economic Collapse
    Ron Paul: U.S. Heading for Soviet-Style Economic Collapse


    I have had a banner to Dr Paul's website on the homepage of my website for a long time now. >>



    He was speaking "WorldWide" not just the USA. At the 1:00 minute mark.
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭
    $1 trillion spent on these two wars for 10 years has helped also to bankrupt America-and for what- because of oil. Imagine if that $1 trillion could have been used for Manhattan like project to find a new viable energy source. Al-Qaeda did exactly to the U.S. what Reagan did to the Soviets by increasing Military spending that the Soviet Union could not keep up and helped to ultimately bankrupt the U.S.S.R.



    Collapse of the Soviet Union and Ronald Reagan





    cost of war
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Anyone familiar? Quite outspoken.

    Max Keiser takes offense to Goldman Sachs story (pt1 of 2)


    In part 2 he mentions that there needs to be a reserve currency backed by gold.












  • meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Hi Tom,

    Max Keiser is one of my youtube favorites... I've followed him for quite sometime now. He has had several different shows (with excellent guests), and is also a regular now at infowars. He sometimes says things that can even make me cringe, but thats Max and you have to take the good with the bad.

    This is his latest on youtube (I'm listening to it right now):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRe2rcGlTHU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPeSs3K_VR4

    His website(s):

    http://maxkeiser.com/

    http://karmabanque.com/

    http://www.piratemyfilm.com/pages/about_us
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Thanks!

    I'm watching this one:
    People & Power - Savers vs speculators - 23 Mar 08 - Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxYi2W9vEfw


    Why on al jazeera and not cnn?





    Never mind that last question image
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Anyone familiar? Quite outspoken.

    Max Keiser takes offense to Goldman Sachs story (pt1 of 2)


    In part 2 he mentions that there needs to be a reserve currency backed by gold. >>




    Well I'd agree with him except he's much too kind and talks about these guys with much too much praise.

    The Taliban is in bed with Al Queada and can't be held apart. The government is in bed with Goldman Sachs and you can't even hose 'em off.



    Tempus fugit.
  • End to currency dispute eludes finance ministers Currency war threatens; global finance leaders fail to resolve deep differences at IMF meetingwar And so it begins... Laying the ground work for WWIII, a Global Currency and the New World Order. Very slick, boys. The recession wiped out 7.3 million jobs, the most of any downturn since World War II, and economists say it will take at least until the middle of this decade to recover them. A chinese philosopher once said that the highest form of warfare is winning your objectives with your enemy never realizing he has been in a war. The commodity numbers are blowouts. Sugar, wheat, corn, copper, every off the run thing you can think of and of course oil are all on the rise. This is coming home to shoppers soon. Ben is just delighted at this. Ben has been preaching the need for inflation.
    Many successful BST transactions ajia
    (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
    mariner67, and Mikes coins
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "Laying the ground work for WWIII, a Global Currency and the New World Order."

    It is imperative that each person make every effort to get away from the bankstas credit card rake and abusive, usurious rates. Folk have to get away from the meaningless yields on cash deposits and keep their cash as cash, put some backbone in their assets with real gold and silver, in any form. You can't cuss the banks out of one side of your mouth and go to them with your business out of the other side, they must be left to stew on their own sauce and people must float their own boat with their own efforts. You can't belly up to the equities bar one day with lust in your heart and then cuss it when you get suckered for 40% over the year. Get metal, use cash, vote, support your chosen representative with contributions, secure your investments with quality and not gimmicks, learn to take care of yourself and your family...they depend on YOU. Leave the games to the players, this isn't your father's Oldsmobile.

    Got CASH!
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No inflation here per the latest CPI report. I guess these guys somehow didn't include commodities in the data. All commodities just don't rise up because of "fear." Well, unless of course it's fear of inflation or fear of depreciating currencies.

    The index for U.S. consumer prices rose 0.1% in September, supported by gains in food and gasoline, as the annualized rate of core inflation was the lowest in nearly five decades, according to a Labor Department report released Friday.

    The food index rose 0.3% in September, its largest gain since October 2008. Meanwhile, the energy index rose 0.7%, with gasoline up 1.6%.
    No inflation here based on today's CPI report:

    But core prices, which exclude volatile food and energy, did not change in September, with a growth rate of 0.0%.

    Over the last 12 months, overall consumer prices are up 1.1%, before seasonal adjustment. Core prices rose 0.8% for the year, the lowest 12-month gain since 1961.
    Economists have been concerned about the low level of inflation. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank may buy government bonds in large part due to the low levels of inflation. Read more on Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s speech on Friday. “If we needed a reminder why the Fed is becoming increasingly worried about deflationary risks, and is preparing new measures for its November 3 meeting, this was it,” said Nigel Gault, chief U.S. economist at IHS Global Insight......(and the kicker)..........Elsewhere Friday, because of the low prices reported by the Labor Department, Social Security announced that recipients will not receive a cost-of-living increase to their benefits next year, with 2011 the second consecutive year with no adjustment. See story on Social Security benefits.


    Sounds like another engine was just started up for the next voyage of the QE2.

    20 yr charts of spot gold prices in 6 major currencies

    The above charts show that currency depreciation is a world-wide problem.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    No inflation. Check.

    Spent $180 at Publix yesterday and that does NOT include the meat and fish that we'll go and buy later this weekend. There's 2 of us. I'm 155lbs and my Wife is 90lb's so you can't say we over indulging. We eat good, but at what's getting within a couple hundred of a g-note a month

    Electric bill, well, it's HIGH. Dealer insurance went up a little and it's already thousands. Prop taxes went UP despite the value going DOWN. Looked at a new Grand Cherokee while picking up mine at the dealer. Sticker was close to 45 Grand. Close to 50 G's for a Jeep?

    Hmmm, reminds me, everything that should be up is down, everything that should be down is up......image


  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I read on yahoo biz that the Fed would like to (according to GS chief Jan hatzius) keep rates at current low levels until 2015! Or more realistically keep the rate low at least until the end of 2012. How? By buying $100B in treasurys per month. A total of $500B in total through the spring starting in early November.

    "The point is that the stock market can only rally for so long on the prospect that the new Fed is caring, omniscient and will make everything better. At some point, that actually needs to happen, and the due date for that is--mark your calendars--Jan 15."

    "A swell in the stocks would be the cheapest stimulus measure available, as it increases confidence and household net worth, and makes businesses and individuals alike more confident to invest and spend."

    r95
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, they just announced today that there will be no COLA increases in Social Security again this year because there is no inflation.

    No inflation! Low interest rates! Food stamps stimulate the economy! Mandatory healthcare creates jobs! And now, buying Treasuries to boost the stock market!

    But of course! It's so simple - why didn't I see it before now?

    Who are these people? How did I get here? How do I get back to my own dimension?image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bernanke comments set up QE2:

    link
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭
    Prop taxes went UP despite the value going DOWN.

    My 80 year old mom had her city property taxes increase by about $100 this year despite on her tax bill stating her property declined in value by almost $25,000. How is this possible. Here homestead credit was diminished because her property value went down. How screwed up is this.
  • dbcoindbcoin Posts: 2,200 ✭✭
    My 80 year old mom had her city property taxes increase by about $100 this year despite on her tax bill stating her property declined in value by almost $25,000. How is this possible.

    Lets use an example to show how this is possible:

    There is a town with 10 houses valued at $100k each, or $1M total. The tax bill to run this small town is only $20k for the part time mayor/sheriff/tax collector. Everyone pays $2k in taxes or 2% of the value of the house (which in many parts of the country is about right)

    The value of the houses goes down 5%, they are all worth $95k now or $950k total. The mayor's medical costs go up 10%, so now the cost to run the town is $22k. $22k/$950 is a tax rate of 2.316%. Your mom's taxes are now $2200. The value of her house went down, but the taxes went up. Unless the town cuts its costs, rising pensions, medical costs, salaries, will drive up taxes even with house values going down.
  • meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    No COLA but talk of $250 checks going out.. again.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The full depth of foreclosuregate - a nice read

    Reggie Middleton has taken this one step further stating that investors will be beating the bushes for information to push back bad loans to the originating bank. That will place increasing stresses up to and including insolvency on the original lenders.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭


    << <i>No COLA but talk of $250 checks going out.. again. >>




    Gotta buy votes anyway they can.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Peter Schiff on the Bankwallstreetocracy >>



    And this is about the size of it. Just about exactly the size of it.

    The FED should be spreading the money to savers not to bankers. The bankers pay nothing
    on money and loan it out at usurious rates. Everywhere you look you see predators and their
    advertising. It's lawyers drumming up business, gold thieves who pay 20% of value, there's
    no business any longer because the government has conspired with big business to send it to
    China.

    The meat that was this country was hacked up bywall street and now it's a bunch of jackals
    fighting over the bones.

    This has been going on for decades while our schools have failed. This is not a coincidence.
    Tempus fugit.
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Well, they just announced today that there will be no COLA increases in Social Security again this year because there is no inflation.

    No inflation! Low interest rates! Food stamps stimulate the economy! Mandatory healthcare creates jobs! And now, buying Treasuries to boost the stock market!

    But of course! It's so simple - why didn't I see it before now?

    Who are these people? How did I get here? How do I get back to my own dimension?image >>



    Don't forget that "there never were shovel-ready jobs."
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My 80 year old mom had her city property taxes increase by about $100 this year despite on her tax bill stating her property declined in value by almost $25,000. How is this possible.

    Lets use an example to show how this is possible:

    There is a town with 10 houses valued at $100k each, or $1M total. The tax bill to run this small town is only $20k for the part time mayor/sheriff/tax collector. Everyone pays $2k in taxes or 2% of the value of the house (which in many parts of the country is about right)

    The value of the houses goes down 5%, they are all worth $95k now or $950k total. The mayor's medical costs go up 10%, so now the cost to run the town is $22k. $22k/$950 is a tax rate of 2.316%. Your mom's taxes are now $2200. The value of her house went down, but the taxes went up. Unless the town cuts its costs, rising pensions, medical costs, salaries, will drive up taxes even with house values going down. >>



    db, you make too much sense. image
  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    We do have shovel ready jobs, unfortunately, most all of those jobs

    are held by both political parties. They have been shoveling BS to

    the people for a loooonnnnggggg time. The only things that do not lie,

    are AU, AG and Plat.They always tell the truth about the real economy.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only things that do not lie, are AU, AG and Plat. They always tell the truth about the real economy.

    Words of wisdom by Bear. Too bad more people didn't believe this concept 5-10 yrs ago.


    roadrunner

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • French workers pour onto the streets
    PARIS (AFP) – French workers poured onto the streets Saturday to defend their right to retire at 60, as rolling strikes shut down oil refineries and threatened to leave Paris airports without fuel.

    High school students bolstered nationwide protests against President Nicolas Sarkozy's plan to increase the minimum retirement age to 62, and Finance Minister Christine Lagarde told people not to panic as petrol pumps ran dry.

    Interior Minister Brice Hortefeux has told police to "limit the use of force to what is strictly necessary" when dealing with any student unrest at Saturday's protests, the fifth in less than six weeks.

    Unions want to pummel the government into backing down on pension reform plans, staging strikes on weekdays and mass demonstrations in cities at the weekend.

    The interior ministry said that at least 340,000 demonstrators had taken to the streets by midday Saturday, fewer than what police said were 380,000 people at the last weekend protest on October 2.

    The head of the FO union, Jean-Claude Mailly, said that turnout was the same as on October 2, more in some parts of the country, with hundreds of thousands taking part in Paris.

    A nationwide day of strikes and demonstrations last Tuesday brought more than a million people on to the streets, and workers in some sectors have kept up their stoppages since then. Another mass strike is planned for next Tuesday.

    "We're prepared to demonstrate under the snow if it takes that long," Airbus worker Stephane Thibault, 37, told AFP at a demonstration in the southern city of Toulouse.

    "We're mobilised, everyone seems motivated. With right-wing governments, we know you have to resist," he said.

    Strikes have shut down 10 out of France's 12 oil refineries, despite riot police being dispatched to keep the fuel flowing amid panic buying.

    The government has given oil companies permission to tap into their own emergency stocks, but has resisted calls to open the part of the French strategic fuel reserve controlled by a government committee.

    Lack of fuel forced the shutdown of a pipeline to Paris's two main airports.

    The main Paris hub, Roissy Charles de Gaulle, has enough aviation fuel to last until Monday evening or Tuesday, the transport ministry said, with planes reportedly being told to arrive with enough fuel for the return journey.

    "We have ways of finding a solution to supply the airport. We're confident," the spokesman told AFP, asking not to be named. "The pipeline supplying fuel to Orly and Roissy airports is working intermittently."

    "There is no shortage," Finance Minister Lagarde told RTL television. "We have several weeks of fuel stocks," she said, with 230 service stations out of 3,000 dry of fuel.

    Cars began queueing at petrol stations outside Paris from before dawn, an AFP correspondent reported, with diesel in particularly short supply.

    "We don't have any left and we don't know when the next delivery will come," said a petrol station worker at a hypermarket at Clichy-sous-Bois who gave his name as Jean-Claude. "Petrol reserves are also extremely low."

    Strikes against pension and port reforms at oil depots in the south of the country since September 27 have left 63 oil, gas and chemical tankers waiting off the Mediterranean coast on Saturday, Marseille port authorities said.

    French truck drivers are also to join protests. "There's impatience, the guys are saying 'let's go'," said transport union chief Maxime Dumont

    Railway operator SNCF said that on average two out of three high-speed TGV trains were running in and out of Paris, although only one TGV in four outside the capital. The Paris metro was running normally.

    Because of a separate Belgian railway strike all high-speed Thalys trains between Paris and Brussels will be cancelled. Eurostar trains travelling under the Channel will be unaffected.

    Unions and the Socialist opposition have vowed to defend the right to retire at 60. They accuse Sarkozy of making workers carry the burden for the failure of the financial sector, and have proposed increasing taxes on the rich.

    The head of the powerful CGT union, Bernard Thibault, has warned that the protests might not end even after the government passes the reform law.

    But the government has shown no sign of retreating from what is a cornerstone of Sarkozy's reform agenda as he prepares for his likely re-election battle in 2012.

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  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "Don't forget that "there never were shovel-ready jobs.""

    I've been in the design bidness for 30 years and had never even heard of that term till last year when BHO used it. The whole concept was suspect because for the jobs to be "shovel ready", the Consultant would have had to have been already paid for sealed drawings that were "on the shelf" and ready to be bid. Usually when the Consultant has been engaged to prepare construction drawings, the money for the services and the money for the construction would have been encumbered and the project approved for bidding. It would be an anomaly for drawings to be drawn, Consultants to have been paid and some architect/engineer seal would have been applied to a project that is just sitting there...that's a huge waste of money and particularly, time. That's not always the case but the idea of having millions and millions of dollars worth of plans on the shelf ready to be bid, just been sittin' there, is just plain absurd, it just doesn't work that way. Be wary of new speak with terms and words that sound good but are more feel good than doable. These types of terms and phrases are meant to make the listener feel good and not necessarily to actually accomplish anything of value. Renski is paying attention!

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