Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
That comment just shows you truly don't understand the game of baseball. I don't know of anyone outside of a sillies fan that would be so foolish to want Howard over Pujols in a lineup, but whatever floats your boat. If nothing else, you have clearly shown us you don't get it. Thanks for playing.
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
...and just ask the Yankees and Mets how having the "best players" wins championships?
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
That comment just shows you truly don't understand the game of baseball. I don't know of anyone outside of a sillies fan that would be so foolish to want Howard over Pujols in a lineup, but whatever floats your boat. If nothing else, you have clearly shown us you don't get it. Thanks for playing. >>
Just ask the Yankees and Mets how having the "best players" wins championships?
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
That comment just shows you truly don't understand the game of baseball. I don't know of anyone outside of a sillies fan that would be so foolish to want Howard over Pujols in a lineup, but whatever floats your boat. If nothing else, you have clearly shown us you don't get it. Thanks for playing. >>
Just ask the Yankees and Mets how having the "best players" wins championships? >>
Despite them stealing players from teams, I haven't noticed any championships from either one of them lately. Now ya getting it? Probably not.
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
...and just ask the Yankees and Mets how having the "best players" wins championships? >>
Once again, you fail to see the light. Pujols also has a ring in case you forgot.
P.S. We are not talking about the Mets or Yankees, by the way.
When Howard needs 75 more baserunners in scoring position to achieve a few more RBI than Pujols, that is not an accomomplishment worth bragging about. That is your free throw contest right there, then maybe you will understand.
That would be like me playing a round of golf against Tiger Woods and then bragging that I tied him because we both put the ball into the cup 18 times...with me completely ignoring the amount of swings it took me to do it in.
By stating that you know Pujols is better and then still taking Howard, that explains why you lost all your money. It ain't broke because they have a great lineup. I wouldn't take a lesser lineup either. I would however give the appropriate credit to the players scoring runs/creating wins. For example, Chase Utley is far more worthy of praise and salary than Howard.
Winpitcher, your statement is incomplete. Sure, I would like to have Howard on my team, DEPENDING on who I have to choose from. He is an above average player to date (mainly becuase his first two years), just like Dave Kingman had years as an above average player as well, as did Gorman Thomas.
<< <i>Perhaps this quote from Herb Brooks can help ya learn:
Craig Patrick: You're missing the best players. Herb Brooks: I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm lookin' for the right ones.
Ryan Howard is the "right" player for the Phillies - I'd rather have him than the "best player" Pujols
Got it yet? >>
The real question should be, will you ever get it?
A guy hitting .329 means even better results in an offensive packed/All Star lineup, than a strikeout king who is hitting .251. I guess only the blind fail to see or realize this.
Back to same principles of that free throw contest that you just can't seem to grasp..
Just how did the Phillies get Ibanez? Victorino and Werth?
Teams don't steal players from other teams. Players become FREE AGENTS and are like the name implies FREE to sign with whatever team they want.
The only time teams could 'steal' a player from a team is during some of those drafts (rule 5) ? and of which the Mets and Yanks don't usually score big on.
Lets be honest here, even with a cap where would you rather play? Pittsburgh or New York?
KC or NY? Baseball players are Alpha types and want to play on a big stage.
Not all, but I would think the vast majority.
So stop with the NY teams steal players it is really a dumb statement.
Just how did the Phillies get Ibanez? Victorino and Werth?
Teams don't steal players from other teams. Players become FREE AGENTS and are like the name implies FREE to sign with whatever team they want.
The only time teams could 'steal' a player from a team is during some of those drafts (rule 5) ? and of which the Mets and Yanks don't usually score big on.
Lets be honest here, even with a cap where would you rather play? Pittsburgh or New York?
KC or NY? Baseball players are Alpha types and want to play on a big stage.
Not all, but I would think the vast majority.
So stop with the NY teams steal players it is really a dumb statement.
Steve >>
<<< So stop with the NY teams steal players it is really a dumb statement.>>>
Steve, are you drinking tonight? I mean come on now.
Pujols has been intentionally walked 18 times this season, to Ryan Howard's 1 intentional walk.
Pujols has the 27th worst ranked clean up hitter numbers in MLB batting behind him this season, and he still has posted better numbers than Howard. Only if Pujols had any protection behind him, and runners getting on in front of him like Howard has in Philly, Pujols would be off the charts this season.
<< <i>Perhaps this quote from Herb Brooks can help ya learn:
Craig Patrick: You're missing the best players. Herb Brooks: I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm lookin' for the right ones.
Ryan Howard is the "right" player for the Phillies - I'd rather have him than the "best player" Pujols
Got it yet? >>
The real question should be, will you ever get it?
A guy hitting .329 means even better results in an offensive packed/All Star lineup, than a strikeout king who is hitting .251. I guess only the blind fail to see or realize this.
Back to same principles of that free throw contest that you just can't seem to grasp.. >>
You can have your boy Pujols, I'll take the championships with Ryan Howard.
<< <i>Perhaps this quote from Herb Brooks can help ya learn:
Craig Patrick: You're missing the best players. Herb Brooks: I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm lookin' for the right ones.
Ryan Howard is the "right" player for the Phillies - I'd rather have him than the "best player" Pujols
Got it yet? >>
The real question should be, will you ever get it?
A guy hitting .329 means even better results in an offensive packed/All Star lineup, than a strikeout king who is hitting .251. I guess only the blind fail to see or realize this.
Back to same principles of that free throw contest that you just can't seem to grasp.. >>
You can have your boy Pujols, I'll take the championships with Ryan Howard. >>
Here, I will make put this in a simple 1st grade explanation:
Pujols has 1 World Series Championship
Howard has 1 World Series Championship.
The arguement you are wanting to make is pointless..
If you show me that Howard drove in his RBI more often than Pujols in more meaningful situations that win games, you may have some point, but that isn't the case. He hasn't.
The fact remains, when it takes Howard 75 more RBI opportunites than Pujols to achieve a scant few more RBI, then it is obvious who is more responsible and better at creating runs.
Also, when one completely ignores the getting on base aspect of hitting, it shows limited baseball knowledge.
How on earth is he a better fit? This isn't basketball or football where that could be an impact. He is a batter that takes his turn in the lineup. He makes more outs, gets less hits, gets on base less, is less efficient with his at bats, slugs at a lower percentage, is a worse fielder, and is a worse runner.
SteveK thinks he fits becuase the team around him is excellent, and the superir lineup artificially plumps up his RBI and Runs scored total.
The free throw contest shows that because when one is given more chances, obviously they are getting a big benefit. It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so.
Here, I will make put this in a simple 1st grade explanantion:
Pujols has 1 World Series Championship
Howard has 1 World Series Championship
Actually that hurts your cause Tim. If Pujols was so much better the Howard he should have more championships.
But since 1 player does not wn championships a team does a team with Howard on it could win more championships then one with Pujols on it even with Pujols being the better player, hitter, and lover.
If you show me that Howard drove in his RBI more often than Pujols in more meaningful situations that win games, you may have some point, but that isn't the case. He hasn't.
The fact remains, when it takes Howard 75 more RBI opportunites than Pujols to achieve a scant few more RBI, then it is obvious who is more responsible and better at creating runs.
Also, when one completely ignores the getting on base aspect of hitting, it shows limited baseball knowledge.
How on earth is he a better fit? This isn't basketball or football where that could be an impact. He is a batter that takes his turn in the lineup. He makes more outs, gets less hits, gets on base less, is less efficient with his at bats, slugs at a lower percentage, is a worse fielder, and is a worse runner.
SteveK thinks he fits becuase the team around him is excellent, and the superir lineup artificially plumps up his RBI and Runs scored total.
The free throw contest shows that because when one is given more chances, obviously they are getting a big benefit. It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so. >>
Speaking like someone who truly gets it. I agree, and thanks, hoopster.
<< <i>Here, I will make put this in a simple 1st grade explanantion:
Pujols has 1 World Series Championship
Howard has 1 World Series Championship
Actually that hurts your cause Tim. If Pujols was so much better the Howard he should have more championships.
But since 1 player does not wn championships a team does a team with Howard on it could win more championships then one with Pujols on it even with Pujols being the better player, hitter, and lover.
Steve >>
Actually, no it doesn't, Steve. All it means is one team built a better lineup/pitching around their slugger.
Look at Dimaggio with 9 titles to Ted Williams 0. You switch roles and put Ted Williams in NY, Joe D in Boston, and you would have much different results due to the quality of the team around the player.
If you truly don't get that concept, then you don't know much about the game of baseball.
What Moe and Larry don't get is that there is no guarantee that Pujols would play better for the Phillies - he might play better, he might play worse...Howard might play better or worse for the Cardinals. It's about other factors as well such as chemistry on the team with the other players and management, etc, etc, etc. There are countless examples of good players going to another team and stinking up the joint, as well as vice versa. It's all hypothetical which a few here seem to relish - Me? I'd rather deal with reality, and the REALITY is that Ryan Howard's RBI and HR production in the last 3 seasons has been better than Pujols.
Ryan Howard for the Philadelphia Phillies is a good fit. Case closed.
You think it was last year because the Phillies had a great team that won the World Series.
You want a baseball example??? OK.
We can make a two baseball teams. I get to pick your teammates, and I also get to pick MINE. We will play each other 25 games. We can place a 15k bet on who wins more games. Only then will one understand the role of teammates.
We can also bet who has more RBI in this series, since RBI are not being full understood here.
You will feel the full force of this when your wallet is 15k lighter. Then I will also put a spaz on my team, and he forever will walk around saying he is better than you because his team won over yours. See how you like that.
Then lets put your theories to work. Let's make the teams. After I take your 15k, I will offer to switch teams with you. Then see if you jump at switching to a better team with more RBI opps.
<< <i>What Moe and Larry don't get is that there is no guarantee that Pujols would play better for the Phillies - he might play better, he might play worse...Howard might play better or worse for the Cardinals. It's about other factors as well such as chemistry on the team with the other players and management, etc, etc, etc. There are countless examples of good players going to another team and stinking up the joint, as well as vice versa. It's all hypothetical which a few here seem to relish - Me? I'd rather deal with reality, and the REALITY is that Ryan Howard's RBI and HR production in the last 3 seasons has been better than Pujols.
Ryan Howard for the Philadelphia Phillies is a good fit. Case closed. >>
There is not anyting hypothetical in the factual numbers. If you fail to see a hitter than has consistently hit .330 for his entire career would not put up better production in an All Star packed lineup, over the course of a season, compared to a guy that strikes out 200 times and hits .250, then you will never get it.
How about those 18 IBB for Pujols compared to Howard's 1? Many of those walks were to load the bases and take the bat out of Pujol's hands. Why are they doing that so much more to Pujols? Simple, it's the lineup he has around him is weak, and Howard's is packed full of punch, so Howard will continue to get more pitches to hit.
I have had my fill of talking with the morons of the world. It is time to talk turkey. I wouldn't mind an extra 15k.
It makes no sense to continue educating people when I get nothing for it. Until these lessons are applied directly at their wallet, will they only be understood.
Until the time comes where the morons of the world want to put their flawed theories to work in the contests provided, I see no further use engaging them.
At this time, I will let them live in biased ignorant bliss.
<< <i>I have had my fill of talking with the morons of the world. It is time to talk turkey. I wouldn't mind an extra 15k.
It makes no sense to continue educating people when I get nothing for it. Until these lessons are applied directly at their wallet, will they only be understood.
Until the time comes where the morons of the world want to put their flawed theories to work in the contests provided, I see no further use engaging them.
At this time, I will let them live in biased ignorant bliss.
Good night, good life. >>
I'm with ya. I am done as well, and am heading to spend some time with my family for the evening.
<< <i>Skip you are missing my point I too am sad that I could not get it into your head.
let me try again.
In a nutshell, Pujols is better, Pujols drives in runs with less chances then Howard.
The only problem I have is that he does it with the Cards and not The phillies.
I have no idea and only you can speculate what he would do with them.
He could break his leg before the first game ever with his new team and never play for them.
Steve >>
Absolutely right Steve - ain't nothing concerning human beings truly guaranteed in this world.
But STM and Hoopster can fantasize and enjoy their hypotheticals as they read their favorite novel "Alice in Wonderland" which they probably believe is based on a true story. LOL
If you show me that Howard drove in his RBI more often than Pujols in more meaningful situations that win games, you may have some point, but that isn't the case. He hasn't.
The fact remains, when it takes Howard 75 more RBI opportunites than Pujols to achieve a scant few more RBI, then it is obvious who is more responsible and better at creating runs.
Also, when one completely ignores the getting on base aspect of hitting, it shows limited baseball knowledge.
How on earth is he a better fit? This isn't basketball or football where that could be an impact. He is a batter that takes his turn in the lineup. He makes more outs, gets less hits, gets on base less, is less efficient with his at bats, slugs at a lower percentage, is a worse fielder, and is a worse runner.
SteveK thinks he fits becuase the team around him is excellent, and the superir lineup artificially plumps up his RBI and Runs scored total.
The free throw contest shows that because when one is given more chances, obviously they are getting a big benefit. It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so. >>
I'll quote this one last time for the evening, just in case the 2 steves might want to let some common sense sink in. I doubt it will happen. No, I know it won't happen, but here goes anyway..
A .330 hitter will be much more lethal in a great lineup and cheap/offensive stadium like Philly has. Even more so than a .250 hitter who strikes out 200 times a year in the same lineup and conditions. That is common sense, and is NOT a hypthetical. Get a clue fellas
Say a person makes the claim that if you drive down the road with your eyes closed, you will get into a wreck. That is not a hypothetical, it's a fact based on common sense and statistics. But, the genius way the 2 steves think they will accuse that of being a hypothetical.... anyway, everyone gets the point..
If you show me that Howard drove in his RBI more often than Pujols in more meaningful situations that win games, you may have some point, but that isn't the case. He hasn't.
The fact remains, when it takes Howard 75 more RBI opportunites than Pujols to achieve a scant few more RBI, then it is obvious who is more responsible and better at creating runs.
Also, when one completely ignores the getting on base aspect of hitting, it shows limited baseball knowledge.
How on earth is he a better fit? This isn't basketball or football where that could be an impact. He is a batter that takes his turn in the lineup. He makes more outs, gets less hits, gets on base less, is less efficient with his at bats, slugs at a lower percentage, is a worse fielder, and is a worse runner.
SteveK thinks he fits becuase the team around him is excellent, and the superir lineup artificially plumps up his RBI and Runs scored total.
The free throw contest shows that because when one is given more chances, obviously they are getting a big benefit. It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so. >>
I'll quote this one last time for the evening, just in case the 2 steves might want to let some common sense sink in. I doubt it will happen. No, I know it won't happen, but here goes anyway..
A .330 hitter will be much more lethal in a great lineup and cheap/offensive stadium like Philly has. Even more so than a .250 hitter who strikes out 200 times a year in the same lineup and conditions. That is common sense, and is NOT a hypthetical. Get a clue fellas
Say a person makes the claim that if you drive down the road with your eyes closed, you will get into a wreck. That is not a hypothetical, it's a fact based on common sense and statistics. But, the genius way the 2 steves think they will accuse that of being a hypothetical.... anyway, everyone gets the point.. >>
Well then, you're such an expert, then get yourself a job in the Yankees or Mets front office - they could use your help.
There is not anyting hypothetical in the factual numbers. If you fail to see a hitter than has consistently hit .330 for his entire career would not put up better production in an All Star packed lineup, over the course of a season, compared to a guy that strikes out 200 times and hits .250, then you will never get it.
One last point Tim since you like to deal in facts.
Just who are all the 'all stars' in the Phillie all star packed lineup?
Last year the Phillies had 2 all stars (one being a pitcher) while the Cards had 2 as well, with Pujols being 1.
Now had you said the Phillies boast a lineup where the players are hard nosed gritty players then some of what you say would have merit.
Since you obviously just like to hear yourself ramble, and won't take hoopster up on the bet, we know who don't have a clue.
Look at the Phillies explosive offensive lineup, and the juice box they play in, compared to the Cardinals meager offense outside of Pujols, and the pitcher friendly stadium Pujols has to play in. If you understand the game of baseball, you will see the big difference, and the lack of quality team around Pujols, that Howard does have. It makes a huge difference. If you can't concede that fact, then you know less about the game of baseball than I thought you did.
<< <i>There is NO maybe to it, Steve. Pujols IS clearly the better hitter and player over Howard.
Another reason why Tim needs a course on reading comprehension.
I did NOT say MAYBE.
I said "Pujols may be better"
So Tim now do you get it?
May be.....as in is......
Steve >>
You are dancing around with words. You could have just said Pujols IS better than Howard, because anyone with half a brain knows he is, instead of "may be" better. But, that is the typical stuff I get from you everytime we have a conversation.
"To sum up...Howard in his first 4 seasons has led the league twice in RBI's and HR's - doesn't matter how or why he did it...he did it, and that's a fact. I didn't Google it, but I would have to believe not many if any in MLB history have achieved that,"
Also in his first 4 seasons, Howard has won one MVP and one runnerup MVP.
I'm still waiting for the two stat geniuses to explain how all this doean't have all the makings of a great player, and has this ever been accomplished by any other player in MLB history? But ahh, those silly HR's, RBI's, and MVP awards don't mean that much right geniuses?
But I guess the two geniuses are too busy reading the latest Harry Potter book which they think is an autobiography. LOL
Comments
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>And some even further follow up:
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
That comment just shows you truly don't understand the game of baseball. I don't know of anyone outside of a sillies fan that would be so foolish to want Howard over Pujols in a lineup, but whatever floats your boat. If nothing else, you have clearly shown us you don't get it. Thanks for playing.
<< <i>
<< <i>And some even further follow up:
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
...and just ask the Yankees and Mets how having the "best players" wins championships?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And some even further follow up:
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
That comment just shows you truly don't understand the game of baseball. I don't know of anyone outside of a sillies fan that would be so foolish to want Howard over Pujols in a lineup, but whatever floats your boat. If nothing else, you have clearly shown us you don't get it. Thanks for playing.
Just ask the Yankees and Mets how having the "best players" wins championships?
We have enough haters.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And some even further follow up:
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
That comment just shows you truly don't understand the game of baseball. I don't know of anyone outside of a sillies fan that would be so foolish to want Howard over Pujols in a lineup, but whatever floats your boat. If nothing else, you have clearly shown us you don't get it. Thanks for playing.
Just ask the Yankees and Mets how having the "best players" wins championships? >>
Despite them stealing players from teams, I haven't noticed any championships from either one of them lately. Now ya getting it? Probably not.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And some even further follow up:
Pujols is hitting .329, 22 homeruns, 57 RBI's, 24 strikeouts, .444 on base %, .699 slug % on a pretty weak offensive team, and in a pitcher friendly park.
Howard is hitting .251, 19 homeruns, 49 RBI's, 75 strikeouts, .327 on base %, .569 slug % while he has an All Star caliber lineup around him, plus the launching pad/juice box he plays at in Philly. >>
Moe - again you forget that I've already stated that Pujols is a better player...maybe your buddy Larry can clarify it.
However, I'd rather have Ryan Howard on my team - if it ain't broke don't fix it....find Curly to explain that to you. >>
...and just ask the Yankees and Mets how having the "best players" wins championships? >>
Once again, you fail to see the light. Pujols also has a ring in case you forgot.
P.S. We are not talking about the Mets or Yankees, by the way.
Craig Patrick: You're missing the best players.
Herb Brooks: I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm lookin' for the right ones.
Ryan Howard is the "right" player for the Phillies - I'd rather have him than the "best player" Pujols
Got it yet?
When Howard needs 75 more baserunners in scoring position to achieve a few more RBI than Pujols, that is not an accomomplishment worth bragging about. That is your free throw contest right there, then maybe you will understand.
That would be like me playing a round of golf against Tiger Woods and then bragging that I tied him because we both put the ball into the cup 18 times...with me completely ignoring the amount of swings it took me to do it in.
By stating that you know Pujols is better and then still taking Howard, that explains why you lost all your money. It ain't broke because they have a great lineup. I wouldn't take a lesser lineup either. I would however give the appropriate credit to the players scoring runs/creating wins. For example, Chase Utley is far more worthy of praise and salary than Howard.
Winpitcher, your statement is incomplete. Sure, I would like to have Howard on my team, DEPENDING on who I have to choose from. He is an above average player to date (mainly becuase his first two years), just like Dave Kingman had years as an above average player as well, as did Gorman Thomas.
<< <i>Perhaps this quote from Herb Brooks can help ya learn:
Craig Patrick: You're missing the best players.
Herb Brooks: I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm lookin' for the right ones.
Ryan Howard is the "right" player for the Phillies - I'd rather have him than the "best player" Pujols
Got it yet? >>
The real question should be, will you ever get it?
A guy hitting .329 means even better results in an offensive packed/All Star lineup, than a strikeout king who is hitting .251. I guess only the blind fail to see or realize this.
Back to same principles of that free throw contest that you just can't seem to grasp..
Geez now we 'steal' players from other teams.
Just how did the Phillies get Ibanez? Victorino and Werth?
Teams don't steal players from other teams. Players become FREE AGENTS and
are like the name implies FREE to sign with whatever team they want.
The only time teams could 'steal' a player from a team is during some of those
drafts (rule 5) ? and of which the Mets and Yanks don't usually score big on.
Lets be honest here, even with a cap where would you rather play? Pittsburgh or New York?
KC or NY? Baseball players are Alpha types and want to play on a big stage.
Not all, but I would think the vast majority.
So stop with the NY teams steal players it is really a dumb statement.
Steve
<< <i>Despite them stealing players from teams,
Geez now we 'steal' players from other teams.
Just how did the Phillies get Ibanez? Victorino and Werth?
Teams don't steal players from other teams. Players become FREE AGENTS and
are like the name implies FREE to sign with whatever team they want.
The only time teams could 'steal' a player from a team is during some of those
drafts (rule 5) ? and of which the Mets and Yanks don't usually score big on.
Lets be honest here, even with a cap where would you rather play? Pittsburgh or New York?
KC or NY? Baseball players are Alpha types and want to play on a big stage.
Not all, but I would think the vast majority.
So stop with the NY teams steal players it is really a dumb statement.
Steve >>
<<< So stop with the NY teams steal players it is really a dumb statement.>>>
Steve, are you drinking tonight? I mean come on now.
"Winpitcher, your statement is incomplete."
ok i'll add to it then. My first basemen right now is a platoon of Tatis and Murphy.
Who would you rather have?
Skip
While I understand the free throw concept you speak of it really does not mean much in baseball.
All it takes for a team to win a game is 1 more run then the opponent.
If it takes Howard (or anyone) 4 chances to accomplish that who cares as long as they win.
Pujols could drive in 100 runs in 50% less chances then Howard but if Howard wins more games
with his more chances that is what truly matters.
Now if they were basketball players I'd agree with you.
Stevek makes a great point. Pujols may be better then Howard but HE would rather have Howard on his team cuz he fits on that team.
Steve
Pujols has been intentionally walked 18 times this season, to Ryan Howard's 1 intentional walk.
Pujols has the 27th worst ranked clean up hitter numbers in MLB batting behind him this season, and he still has posted better numbers than Howard. Only if Pujols had any protection behind him, and runners getting on in front of him like Howard has in Philly, Pujols would be off the charts this season.
<< <i>
<< <i>Perhaps this quote from Herb Brooks can help ya learn:
Craig Patrick: You're missing the best players.
Herb Brooks: I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm lookin' for the right ones.
Ryan Howard is the "right" player for the Phillies - I'd rather have him than the "best player" Pujols
Got it yet? >>
The real question should be, will you ever get it?
A guy hitting .329 means even better results in an offensive packed/All Star lineup, than a strikeout king who is hitting .251. I guess only the blind fail to see or realize this.
Back to same principles of that free throw contest that you just can't seem to grasp.. >>
You can have your boy Pujols, I'll take the championships with Ryan Howard.
<< <i>"Winpitcher, your statement is incomplete."
ok i'll add to it then. My first basemen right now is a platoon of Tatis and Murphy.
Who would you rather have?
Skip
While I understand the free throw concept you speak of it really does not mean much in baseball.
All it takes for a team to win a game is 1 more run then the opponent.
If it takes Howard (or anyone) 4 chances to accomplish that who cares as long as they win.
Pujols could drive in 100 runs in 50% less chances then Howard but if Howard wins more games
with his more chances that is what truly matters.
Now if they were basketball players I'd agree with you.
Stevek makes a great point. Pujols may be better then Howard but HE would rather have Howard on his team cuz he fits on that team.
Steve >>
There is NO maybe to it, Steve. Pujols IS clearly the better hitter and player over Howard.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Perhaps this quote from Herb Brooks can help ya learn:
Craig Patrick: You're missing the best players.
Herb Brooks: I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm lookin' for the right ones.
Ryan Howard is the "right" player for the Phillies - I'd rather have him than the "best player" Pujols
Got it yet? >>
The real question should be, will you ever get it?
A guy hitting .329 means even better results in an offensive packed/All Star lineup, than a strikeout king who is hitting .251. I guess only the blind fail to see or realize this.
Back to same principles of that free throw contest that you just can't seem to grasp.. >>
You can have your boy Pujols, I'll take the championships with Ryan Howard. >>
Here, I will make put this in a simple 1st grade explanation:
Pujols has 1 World Series Championship
Howard has 1 World Series Championship.
The arguement you are wanting to make is pointless..
Could you show me where I said Howard was better the Pujols?
Please re read my post.
Steve
<< <i>Tim
Could you show me where I said Howard was better the Pujols?
Please re read my post.
Steve >>
You said Pujols may be the better player, and I said there is not maybe to it. Pujols is clearly the better player.
If you show me that Howard drove in his RBI more often than Pujols in more meaningful situations that win games, you may have some point, but that isn't the case. He hasn't.
The fact remains, when it takes Howard 75 more RBI opportunites than Pujols to achieve a scant few more RBI, then it is obvious who is more responsible and better at creating runs.
Also, when one completely ignores the getting on base aspect of hitting, it shows limited baseball knowledge.
How on earth is he a better fit? This isn't basketball or football where that could be an impact. He is a batter that takes his turn in the lineup. He makes more outs, gets less hits, gets on base less, is less efficient with his at bats, slugs at a lower percentage, is a worse fielder, and is a worse runner.
SteveK thinks he fits becuase the team around him is excellent, and the superir lineup artificially plumps up his RBI and Runs scored total.
The free throw contest shows that because when one is given more chances, obviously they are getting a big benefit. It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so.
Pujols has 1 World Series Championship
Howard has 1 World Series Championship
Actually that hurts your cause Tim. If Pujols was so much better the Howard he should have
more championships.
But since 1 player does not wn championships a team does a team with Howard on it could win more
championships then one with Pujols on it even with Pujols being the better player, hitter, and lover.
Steve
<< <i>Winpitcher,
If you show me that Howard drove in his RBI more often than Pujols in more meaningful situations that win games, you may have some point, but that isn't the case. He hasn't.
The fact remains, when it takes Howard 75 more RBI opportunites than Pujols to achieve a scant few more RBI, then it is obvious who is more responsible and better at creating runs.
Also, when one completely ignores the getting on base aspect of hitting, it shows limited baseball knowledge.
How on earth is he a better fit? This isn't basketball or football where that could be an impact. He is a batter that takes his turn in the lineup. He makes more outs, gets less hits, gets on base less, is less efficient with his at bats, slugs at a lower percentage, is a worse fielder, and is a worse runner.
SteveK thinks he fits becuase the team around him is excellent, and the superir lineup artificially plumps up his RBI and Runs scored total.
The free throw contest shows that because when one is given more chances, obviously they are getting a big benefit. It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so. >>
Speaking like someone who truly gets it. I agree, and thanks, hoopster.
It was last year.
Steve
<< <i>Here, I will make put this in a simple 1st grade explanantion:
Pujols has 1 World Series Championship
Howard has 1 World Series Championship
Actually that hurts your cause Tim. If Pujols was so much better the Howard he should have
more championships.
But since 1 player does not wn championships a team does a team with Howard on it could win more
championships then one with Pujols on it even with Pujols being the better player, hitter, and lover.
Steve >>
Actually, no it doesn't, Steve. All it means is one team built a better lineup/pitching around their slugger.
Look at Dimaggio with 9 titles to Ted Williams 0. You switch roles and put Ted Williams in NY, Joe D in Boston, and you would have much different results due to the quality of the team around the player.
If you truly don't get that concept, then you don't know much about the game of baseball.
EDIT: Spell
Ryan Howard for the Philadelphia Phillies is a good fit. Case closed.
You think it was last year because the Phillies had a great team that won the World Series.
You want a baseball example??? OK.
We can make a two baseball teams. I get to pick your teammates, and I also get to pick MINE. We will play each other 25 games. We can place a 15k bet on who wins more games. Only then will one understand the role of teammates.
We can also bet who has more RBI in this series, since RBI are not being full understood here.
You will feel the full force of this when your wallet is 15k lighter. Then I will also put a spaz on my team, and he forever will walk around saying he is better than you because his team won over yours. See how you like that.
so rigid in your thoughts that no one else can have an opinion.
I've said Pujols is the better player.
What I'm saying is because it is a team sport it really does not translate into championships having the best player.
Just how many championships do Arod and Griffey jr have? Were they not at one time the best?
Howard just may be a better fit in Philly. I'm not saying he is, I'm only saying he MAY BE.
And I disagree, it is an accomplishment if Howard (or anyone for that matter) has more RBI becuase
of more chances if that RBI is the reason (or a reason) the team wins a championship.
You guys think everything is black or white.
It is not, there is much grey that some here miss.
Steve
Money talks, b.s. walks.
What Moe and Larry don't get is that there is no guarantee that Pujols would play better for the Phillies
Bingo! Just like he has no idea how the Yanks would have done with Williams instead of Joe D.
One can assume.
This is the point that they don't get.
Steve
Money talks, b.s. walks
<< <i>It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so.
It is when they are at the right times...
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Well I wouldn't go that far. What I would say is that he (Howard) won last year even if it took him more chances
to accomplish it.
That is the problem here, the word production, Pujols has the better stats if taken as a pct of chances (or lack of)
Howard has lead the league because of his more chances.
Steve
<< <i>What Moe and Larry don't get is that there is no guarantee that Pujols would play better for the Phillies - he might play better, he might play worse...Howard might play better or worse for the Cardinals. It's about other factors as well such as chemistry on the team with the other players and management, etc, etc, etc. There are countless examples of good players going to another team and stinking up the joint, as well as vice versa. It's all hypothetical which a few here seem to relish - Me? I'd rather deal with reality, and the REALITY is that Ryan Howard's RBI and HR production in the last 3 seasons has been better than Pujols.
Ryan Howard for the Philadelphia Phillies is a good fit. Case closed. >>
There is not anyting hypothetical in the factual numbers. If you fail to see a hitter than has consistently hit .330 for his entire career would not put up better production in an All Star packed lineup, over the course of a season, compared to a guy that strikes out 200 times and hits .250, then you will never get it.
How about those 18 IBB for Pujols compared to Howard's 1? Many of those walks were to load the bases and take the bat out of Pujol's hands. Why are they doing that so much more to Pujols? Simple, it's the lineup he has around him is weak, and Howard's is packed full of punch, so Howard will continue to get more pitches to hit.
If they are then they are crazy. He clearly is better, but and this is a big but some here feel their is no way to determine
what he would do if his stats were transferred aomehow to the phillies. They may be better, they may be the same
they may be worse. They don't know cuz it did not happen.
What they are saying is Howard (to them) is a better fit for there team.
If Howard leaves the team and they somehow get Pujols then they will at that time see how that works out.
Just because Pujols has averaged X for the Cards does not mean (to them anyway) that he will average the same x
with the phillies.
Steve
It makes no sense to continue educating people when I get nothing for it. Until these lessons are applied directly at their wallet, will they only be understood.
Until the time comes where the morons of the world want to put their flawed theories to work in the contests provided, I see no further use engaging them.
At this time, I will let them live in biased ignorant bliss.
Good night, good life.
Steve
<< <i>I have had my fill of talking with the morons of the world. It is time to talk turkey. I wouldn't mind an extra 15k.
It makes no sense to continue educating people when I get nothing for it. Until these lessons are applied directly at their wallet, will they only be understood.
Until the time comes where the morons of the world want to put their flawed theories to work in the contests provided, I see no further use engaging them.
At this time, I will let them live in biased ignorant bliss.
Good night, good life. >>
I'm with ya. I am done as well, and am heading to spend some time with my family for the evening.
let me try again.
In a nutshell, Pujols is better, Pujols drives in runs with less chances then Howard.
The only problem I have is that he does it with the Cards and not The phillies.
I have no idea and only you can speculate what he would do with them.
He could break his leg before the first game ever with his new team and never play for them.
Steve
Now you know how we feel.
Steve
<< <i>Skip you are missing my point I too am sad that I could not get it into your head.
let me try again.
In a nutshell, Pujols is better, Pujols drives in runs with less chances then Howard.
The only problem I have is that he does it with the Cards and not The phillies.
I have no idea and only you can speculate what he would do with them.
He could break his leg before the first game ever with his new team and never play for them.
Steve >>
Absolutely right Steve - ain't nothing concerning human beings truly guaranteed in this world.
But STM and Hoopster can fantasize and enjoy their hypotheticals as they read their favorite novel "Alice in Wonderland" which they probably believe is based on a true story. LOL
<< <i>Winpitcher,
If you show me that Howard drove in his RBI more often than Pujols in more meaningful situations that win games, you may have some point, but that isn't the case. He hasn't.
The fact remains, when it takes Howard 75 more RBI opportunites than Pujols to achieve a scant few more RBI, then it is obvious who is more responsible and better at creating runs.
Also, when one completely ignores the getting on base aspect of hitting, it shows limited baseball knowledge.
How on earth is he a better fit? This isn't basketball or football where that could be an impact. He is a batter that takes his turn in the lineup. He makes more outs, gets less hits, gets on base less, is less efficient with his at bats, slugs at a lower percentage, is a worse fielder, and is a worse runner.
SteveK thinks he fits becuase the team around him is excellent, and the superir lineup artificially plumps up his RBI and Runs scored total.
The free throw contest shows that because when one is given more chances, obviously they are getting a big benefit. It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so. >>
I'll quote this one last time for the evening, just in case the 2 steves might want to let some common sense sink in. I doubt it will happen. No, I know it won't happen, but here goes anyway..
A .330 hitter will be much more lethal in a great lineup and cheap/offensive stadium like Philly has. Even more so than a .250 hitter who strikes out 200 times a year in the same lineup and conditions. That is common sense, and is NOT a hypthetical. Get a clue fellas
Say a person makes the claim that if you drive down the road with your eyes closed, you will get into a wreck. That is not a hypothetical, it's a fact based on common sense and statistics. But, the genius way the 2 steves think they will accuse that of being a hypothetical.... anyway, everyone gets the point..
<< <i>
<< <i>Winpitcher,
If you show me that Howard drove in his RBI more often than Pujols in more meaningful situations that win games, you may have some point, but that isn't the case. He hasn't.
The fact remains, when it takes Howard 75 more RBI opportunites than Pujols to achieve a scant few more RBI, then it is obvious who is more responsible and better at creating runs.
Also, when one completely ignores the getting on base aspect of hitting, it shows limited baseball knowledge.
How on earth is he a better fit? This isn't basketball or football where that could be an impact. He is a batter that takes his turn in the lineup. He makes more outs, gets less hits, gets on base less, is less efficient with his at bats, slugs at a lower percentage, is a worse fielder, and is a worse runner.
SteveK thinks he fits becuase the team around him is excellent, and the superir lineup artificially plumps up his RBI and Runs scored total.
The free throw contest shows that because when one is given more chances, obviously they are getting a big benefit. It is NOT an accomplishemnt to out RBI a guy when you have that many more chances to do so. >>
I'll quote this one last time for the evening, just in case the 2 steves might want to let some common sense sink in. I doubt it will happen. No, I know it won't happen, but here goes anyway..
A .330 hitter will be much more lethal in a great lineup and cheap/offensive stadium like Philly has. Even more so than a .250 hitter who strikes out 200 times a year in the same lineup and conditions. That is common sense, and is NOT a hypthetical. Get a clue fellas
Say a person makes the claim that if you drive down the road with your eyes closed, you will get into a wreck. That is not a hypothetical, it's a fact based on common sense and statistics. But, the genius way the 2 steves think they will accuse that of being a hypothetical.... anyway, everyone gets the point.. >>
Well then, you're such an expert, then get yourself a job in the Yankees or Mets front office - they could use your help.
"In a nutshell, Pujols is better, Pujols drives in runs with less chances then Howard."
Seems to me that you need a refresher course in reading comprehension.
Steve
Another reason why Tim needs a course on reading comprehension.
I did NOT say MAYBE.
I said "Pujols may be better"
So Tim now do you get it?
May be.....as in is......
Steve
One last point Tim since you like to deal in facts.
Just who are all the 'all stars' in the Phillie all star packed lineup?
Last year the Phillies had 2 all stars (one being a pitcher) while the Cards had 2 as well, with Pujols being 1.
Now had you said the Phillies boast a lineup where the players are hard nosed gritty players then some of what you say would have merit.
Steve
Since you obviously just like to hear yourself ramble, and won't take hoopster up on the bet, we know who don't have a clue.
Look at the Phillies explosive offensive lineup, and the juice box they play in, compared to the Cardinals meager offense outside of Pujols, and the pitcher friendly stadium Pujols has to play in. If you understand the game of baseball, you will see the big difference, and the lack of quality team around Pujols, that Howard does have. It makes a huge difference. If you can't concede that fact, then you know less about the game of baseball than I thought you did.
<< <i>There is NO maybe to it, Steve. Pujols IS clearly the better hitter and player over Howard.
Another reason why Tim needs a course on reading comprehension.
I did NOT say MAYBE.
I said "Pujols may be better"
So Tim now do you get it?
May be.....as in is......
Steve >>
You are dancing around with words. You could have just said Pujols IS better than Howard, because anyone with half a brain knows he is, instead of "may be" better. But, that is the typical stuff I get from you everytime we have a conversation.
Learn how to read and digest what people say.
'maybe' and may be have two different meanings and their was no dancing around.
My comment was direct and to the point.
Sorry, but you mis read what was said.
Steve
Also in his first 4 seasons, Howard has won one MVP and one runnerup MVP.
I'm still waiting for the two stat geniuses to explain how all this doean't have all the makings of a great player, and has this ever been accomplished by any other player in MLB history? But ahh, those silly HR's, RBI's, and MVP awards don't mean that much right geniuses?
But I guess the two geniuses are too busy reading the latest Harry Potter book which they think is an autobiography. LOL
I think you need to re read my posts.
Again why would I need to take Hoop up on his bet?
Did you not see where I have agreed with him?
Steve