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Treeman
Posts: 418 ✭✭✭
Seems every thread I read these days shows concern for the present value of coins (in this economy), whether someone is "buried" in a coin, if Modern values will tank, and on and on...
Maybe it's because my collection is smaller, I'm not sure, but if the value of my collection dropped by 80%, it certainly wouldn't mean that much to me. I've always collected with "extra" money, and never looked at it as an investment. It's simply a HOBBY, just like my old tractors. Seems these days everyone is concerned about how much they can profit, or how much they might lose. The other major concern on threads is which PLASTIC entombs the coin.
Am I alone, as an "old time" collector? Does anyone else collect simply for the fun of it? Are most of you guys "young" people, that is, under 50? Seems like, somewhere along the way, collecting ended, and "investing" became the rule.
I know most of you guys say, "coins are NOT a good investment", but then, most of the threads deal with profit or loss in some sense. I'm just rambling, because, after all, I am an "old" collector...
Maybe it's because my collection is smaller, I'm not sure, but if the value of my collection dropped by 80%, it certainly wouldn't mean that much to me. I've always collected with "extra" money, and never looked at it as an investment. It's simply a HOBBY, just like my old tractors. Seems these days everyone is concerned about how much they can profit, or how much they might lose. The other major concern on threads is which PLASTIC entombs the coin.
Am I alone, as an "old time" collector? Does anyone else collect simply for the fun of it? Are most of you guys "young" people, that is, under 50? Seems like, somewhere along the way, collecting ended, and "investing" became the rule.
I know most of you guys say, "coins are NOT a good investment", but then, most of the threads deal with profit or loss in some sense. I'm just rambling, because, after all, I am an "old" collector...
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At some point in our collecting lives, we may cross some imaginary line and realize that we've spent "a significant amount" of money on our hobby. That amount is different for each person...but once you cross that line, it's hard not to care what your coins are worth in general terms, just in case something happens and you have to sell.
I don't see how any of that makes me an investor...or makes me something other than a collector.
I both collect and invest.
My core series I collect because I really like them.... but its nice if they increase in value.
The other "stuff" is for investment....... but its nice that I enjoy holding them.
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Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
<< <i>Generally, I am aware of how much money I have tied up in my collection in total, as well as how much I paid for each coin.
At some point in our collecting lives, we may cross some imaginary line and realize that we've spent "a significant amount" of money on our hobby. That amount is different for each person...but once you cross that line, it's hard not to care what your coins are worth in general terms, just in case something happens and you have to sell.
I don't see how any of that makes me an investor...or makes me something other than a collector. >>
Not really what I meant... I'm talking more about the "concern" about value. Yes, I also know what my collection is worth, but it's not a big deal if it goes down (or up). It's always been "extra" money, it didn't matter then, and it doesn't matter now. Just seems to me that, generally speaking, people are TOO CONCERNED with values, and PLASTIC, and the good old "hobby" aspect is dying...
Thinking about it, it may be an offshoot of graded coins & the registry sets.
In other words, if I only collected raw coins & I was happy with what I had (meaning only adding to the collection & not upgrading/selling), then the value's of these coins would be irrelevant.
But, alas, I am constantly looking for coins to upgrade & selling dupes.
This means, to some extent, keeping track of coin values & hoping those I have go up & those I need/want go down.
Rarely works that way though.
<< <i>Generally, I am aware of how much money I have tied up in my collection in total, as well as how much I paid for each coin.
At some point in our collecting lives, we may cross some imaginary line and realize that we've spent "a significant amount" of money on our hobby. That amount is different for each person...but once you cross that line, it's hard not to care what your coins are worth in general terms, just in case something happens and you have to sell.
I don't see how any of that makes me an investor...or makes me something other than a collector. >>
That just makes you a savvy collector. To spend $1,000 for a coin [even if it is fun money] and not care if it holds its value is just pain dumb IMO. If you buy right your odds of recovering that value are lots better, but not guaranteed. Someone who is buried in a coin either got duped or bought for the wrong reason/s.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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<< <i>Generally, I am aware of how much money I have tied up in my collection in total, as well as how much I paid for each coin.
At some point in our collecting lives, we may cross some imaginary line and realize that we've spent "a significant amount" of money on our hobby. That amount is different for each person...but once you cross that line, it's hard not to care what your coins are worth in general terms, just in case something happens and you have to sell.
I don't see how any of that makes me an investor...or makes me something other than a collector. >>
Not really what I meant... I'm talking more about the "concern" about value. Yes, I also know what my collection is worth, but it's not a big deal if it goes down (or up). It's always been "extra" money, it didn't matter then, and it doesn't matter now. Just seems to me that, generally speaking, people are TOO CONCERNED with values, and PLASTIC, and the good old "hobby" aspect is dying... >>
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
.gecko109 I believe that 90% may be a tad high.
<< <i>But when I go out and spend $500 or $1000 on a single coin, how could I POSSIBLY not be concerned about its value, both present and future? >>
By honestly not caring. The average coin that I buy is in that range. Any coin that I purchase is not going to be for sale until after my death. What possible difference does it make to anyone other than my insurance company whether their current market value goes up or down? As for future value...my heirs can melt them down into paperweights for all I will care by then. I don't collect for their financial benefit. I collect for my emotional benefit.
1) Collect what you like
2) Learn how to grade
3) Learn the typical wholesale and retail prices for the coins your are interested in
4) Develop relationships with dealers and other collectors to get better access and better pricing
5) Enjoy the hobby
#3 Learning the prices is important because no one likes getting taken to the cleaners. If real world prices are down 20%, instead of the reported 3% in the price guides, some would say that folks paying the old high price are being taken. It is that simple. Some novices take no notice of prices and only buy from one dealer or one source and end up paying huge premiums over market. While they might enjoy the hobby, I posit that they might enjoy it a lot more, if they ended up with more coins, better coins, for their money.
As an analogy, no one "invests" in a car for driving every day. The car is going to depreciate through use. Yet, if someone is going to buy a new car or a new used car, almost everyone wants to pay a fair market price, not 20% over what most others are paying. In the down economy, the sticker price of the car may not have changed, while the real world price might be down hard because dealers are desperate to move iron. I'm not saying this is true or not in coins, If it is, it is important information for collectors to know, even if they have little interest in the so-called investment potential of their coins.
<< <i>If I collected nothing but junk silver out of dealer's 90% bins, I wouldnt care either. But when I go out and spend $500 or $1000 on a single coin, how could I POSSIBLY not be concerned about its value, both present and future? >>
True. There are things I collect that cost $5, $10, maybe $20 a piece, and I don't really care about resale value or appreciation potential at all. But if I'm spending a few Benjamins or more, I am a little more concerned about the potential to hold value.
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<< <i>But when I go out and spend $500 or $1000 on a single coin, how could I POSSIBLY not be concerned about its value, both present and future? >>
By honestly not caring. The average coin that I buy is in that range. Any coin that I purchase is not going to be for sale until after my death. What possible difference does it make to anyone other than my insurance company whether their current market value goes up or down? As for future value...my heirs can melt them down into paperweights for all I will care by then. I don't collect for their financial benefit. I collect for my emotional benefit. >>
So I guess because I DO care what my wife and son will get when they liquidate my collection after my passing, that im some sort of "weirdo"? Since when is looking out for your family's financial health a bad thing?
Every once in a while I pull out my coins and wonder what the same Dealers who sold me my Coins would say before making an offer for them.
"Oh, I don't buy that sort of stuff"
"That Coin is way overgraded"
"I can see someone has sold you all their junk"
" Come back, when you find your meaningful Coins"
They sure were good Coins when they sold them to me.
<< <i>Not really what I meant... I'm talking more about the "concern" about value. Yes, I also know what my collection is worth, but it's not a big deal if it goes down (or up). It's always been "extra" money, it didn't matter then, and it doesn't matter now. Just seems to me that, generally speaking, people are TOO CONCERNED with values, and PLASTIC, and the good old "hobby" aspect is dying... >>
Fair enough. However, I will counter that...
If you are in the comfortable and enviable position of not caring about the value of your coins, good for you. But people have different attitudes about money. I think I have a pretty nonchalant attitude about money (especially compared to my wife!
I think that, rather than dying, the good old "hobby" is evolving - for the better - largely because of plastic and the introduction of third party grading and authentication. One of the reasons I left the hobby after collecting as a teenager was the seemingly adversarial aspect of collector vs. dealer. No matter how skilled I became at grading and choosing quality coins, it was always my opinion vs. that of the dealer and always having to take the dealer's word became very frustrating. I believe that plastic and TPGs have "leveled the playing field" a great deal and made for a better hobby.
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<< <i>But when I go out and spend $500 or $1000 on a single coin, how could I POSSIBLY not be concerned about its value, both present and future? >>
By honestly not caring. The average coin that I buy is in that range. Any coin that I purchase is not going to be for sale until after my death. What possible difference does it make to anyone other than my insurance company whether their current market value goes up or down? As for future value...my heirs can melt them down into paperweights for all I will care by then. I don't collect for their financial benefit. I collect for my emotional benefit. >>
So I guess because I DO care what my wife and son will get when they liquidate my collection after my passing, that im some sort of "weirdo"? Since when is looking out for your family's financial health a bad thing? >>
No one stated that looking out for your family's financial health was a bad thing. My family's future financial well-being is taken care of before I spend a dime on what to me is strictly entertainment. I would hope that yours is too. To me, disposable income is just exactly that--disposable.
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<< <i>But when I go out and spend $500 or $1000 on a single coin, how could I POSSIBLY not be concerned about its value, both present and future? >>
By honestly not caring. The average coin that I buy is in that range. Any coin that I purchase is not going to be for sale until after my death. What possible difference does it make to anyone other than my insurance company whether their current market value goes up or down? As for future value...my heirs can melt them down into paperweights for all I will care by then. I don't collect for their financial benefit. I collect for my emotional benefit. >>
So I guess because I DO care what my wife and son will get when they liquidate my collection after my passing, that im some sort of "weirdo"? Since when is looking out for your family's financial health a bad thing? >>
I wish I could spend $1k and not care whether I'm making a good decision or not. I'm with gecko109 on this one. I'm 22, and collect because I enjoy it, and as also an investment for the future. I do not have kids yet, but I do plan on it in the future. If I can do every little bit to make sure they go to a nice college like I didn't, then I'll do just that. And IMO, I will only collect raw or PCGS slabbed coins. There are quite a few TPGs out there, half of which I don't even know the abbreviation.
I am younger than most on these forums, and my tastes are still developing. I find it both
necessary and satisfying to sell some items every now and then to make way for new purchases
which I can enjoy more.
Right now I still collect a bit of everything. I imagine as I get older I will whittle my collection
down to a box or 2 of choice pieces which I will never part with, if I'm lucky enough.
So yes, I am always conscious of value. When I buy a $2,000 coin, I do view it as a long
term investment. Call me crazy. JMHO.
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But, collectors are not all alike either. Some collectors see value as an important ingredient in the "Fun". They collect with the idea that making good decisions can be measured by the value performance of their coins. These folks are not investors, they simply need a method to keep score in order to enjoy what they do. Other collectors see art and historical significance as an important ingredient in the "Fun" and couldn't care less what the value of their coins may be. Other collectors are brainiacs that take pride in specialized knowledge and collect coins that demonstrate what they know. Many collectors mix knowledge, art, history, and value in having Fun. And, there are many other reasons to collect I am sure.
I would be lying if i didn't say I am aware how much I have tied into the collection though and sometimes use there liquid nature as a comfort. As I used to have a key and semi key type collection and had to flip it when I decided to focus my efforts and I have to say it was kind of cool playing coin dealer and turning a profit on some coins and taking the hit on others.
It was driving me crazy, I had a ton of money in the market, sat here all freaking day long with a Lev 2 trading platform "trying to make the magic always happen". Long story short left the market on Nov 13 2007 every red cent and decided to put my money into coins.
This decision was based on the fact that as I sit here today, I can look on my desk at a nearly featureless large Victoria cent from early england. Thin....worn/rather polished I tell you with a brillo pad till it gleamed. I was just tall enough to look up to the sink ledge and turn on the water...and I was polishing that penny.
And, I still have it. that is the way it is with me and coins. I can just "keep them". If I had taken all that $$$$$$ and put it into the bank, well, I tell you between my wife, daughter and I that would have been horribly decimated over the last two years. But, the coins, on the other hand, may have dipped a bit, but for the most part, the wealth they embody has been preserved. I would say that in 10 years I will have added to these coins, right now Im delighting in gold dollars, and actually about 11% into the series already. Its fun and has put the joy into collecting again with the persuit of these coins by date and mint. It think they are at the low point of their value/rarity point right now, and are a great series to collect for the long term.
So......coins are a "quite investment". There is no need to watch the chart, get roids from sitting 14 hours a day in front of a monitor, etc etc....
And it is really a long term value proposition. I think the way to approach it is just like I done. I bought very high quality high value coins from reputable dealers. A few were pedigree registry set coins, but in their own way were far above widget class. I built a rather nice 1909 cent set, which if a VDB were added to it, would be postively World Class. Now, gold dollars.....thats a long term addition in a series that has upside.
Others will no doubt disagree with the above, those mythical beings whose Icon we always associate with sagely words of learned numismatic wisdom......well guys your advice is always appreciated but everybodies way of working with coins is different. There are many of us who could not POSSIBLY imagine putting all our slabs into a glass tray and sit in a building for four days trying to sell them to others. So, give everyone who is into coins a break as to how you treat them for their way of mentally owning and valuing coins.
Preaching over its back to work.
The vast majority of the forumites who post here seem to operate under the premise that coins will appreciate over time. And, they involve themselves in this hobby always working under that assumption.
Consider the following...
Computers, coding, networking, is (now) a hobby of mine. There is no chance I will resell any of my computers at a premium above what I paid. None of the books, none of the programs, nothing that I don't create myself could ever be sold for more than what I paid. I sink between $5000 and $10000 a year into this hobby because I can and I will never regret that expenditure. It is a pittance to some and a small fortune to others - but it is what I can reasonably afford to invest into the hobby. I'll never blow a gasket on the "lost" money, because it was never lost. I never had any expectation of financial gain.
Collectors on the other hand, and coin collectors far more than most others, are marketed to in a manner that pushes the "collector" into believing in the appreciation value of just about every purchase they make for their "hobby". This works to the collectors advantage and disadvantage. In the "good times" the collector sees the items they love grow in value. In the "bad times" the collector sees the items they loves sink in value. The speed and distance of those rises and falls may be directly correlated to the actual base value of the item collected vs. the marketing induced value.
You can easily pick out the "market collector" vs. the "passion collector" by the amount of chatter put forth on value. Be it: "Buy only the best as it will hold its value" or: "I wouldn't care either if I only spent XXX" or: "Its nice but it won't slab, you should pass..."
All that said... it is the most passionate of collectors whom are probably the most vulnerable to eventually ending up under the wheels of the market-mythos-motorcar or, more than occasionally... driving it.
Edit: Typo
<< <i>What no one here seems to commenting on, or perhaps are being willfully ignorant about, is this:
The vast majority of the forumites who post here seem to operate under the premise that coins will appreciate over time. And, they involve themselves in this hobby always working under that assumption.
Consider the following...
Computers, coding, networking, is (now) a hobby of mine. There is no chance I will resell any of my computers at a premium above what I paid. None of the books, none of the programs, nothing that I don't create myself could ever be sold for more than what I paid. I sink between $5000 and $10000 a year into this hobby because I can and I will never regret that expenditure. It is a pittance to some and a small fortune to others - but it is what I can reasonably afford to invest into the hobby. I'll never blow a gasket on the "lost" money, because it was never lost. I never had any expectation of financial gain.
Collectors on the other hand, and coin collectors far more than most others, are marketed to in a manner that pushes the "collector" into believing in the appreciation value of just about every purchase they make for their "hobby". This works to the collectors advantage and disadvantage. In the "good times" the collector sees the items they love grow in value. In the "bad times" the collector sees the items they loves sink in value. The speed and distance of those rises and falls may be directly correlated to the actual base value of the item collected vs. the marketing induced value.
You can easily pick out the "market collector" vs. the "passion collector" by the amount of chatter put forth on value. Be it: "Buy only the best as it will hold its value" or: "I wouldn't care either if I only spent XXX" or: "Its nice but it won't slab, you should pass..."
All that said... it is the most passionate of collectors whom are probably the most vulnerable to eventually ending up under the wheels of the market-mythos-motorcar or, more than occasionally... driving it.
Edit: Typo >>
Excellent post! I can relate completely as one of my other "hobbies" is panning/dredging for gold. I have spent roughly $5,000 on some very fancy equipment to enjoy my hobby, and as a result, I have recovered about 1/4 ounce of gold in over 2 years of visiting creeks in Indiana. When I shelled out $3,000+ on a new 4 inch proline dredge, I did so because I love to be out at the creek underwater sucking up the gravel. My decision to buy such a machine was not influenced in any way by how much gold I could recover, or how well the machine would hold its value.
Having said all that, I view coins slightly differently. As most of you know, my numismatic passion lies with Chinese gold pandas. Buying these beautiful little works of modern art has a 2 fold benefit. I get the pleasure of pursuing a collection, as well as stockpiling a tangible hard asset. To say Im not at all concerned about the long term prospects of the value of my collection would both be a flat out lie, as well as a very irresponsible attitude considering a large chunk of my family's money goes into the collection on a monthly basis. If, IF gold went to zero, and the value of all my coins followed, we would be financially fine. However, in hoping that the value of my collection at least keeps pace with inflation (i.e. no profit) my family will be even better than "financially fine". Isnt this what we all strive for anyway, whether collecting stocks, cash, or numismatic delicacies?
That said however:
I open my desk drawer and there are coins in 2x2's all over.
I look in the bowl next to my bed and there are buffalo nickels.
I found a roll of wheaties in my sock drawer.
My bookshelves are sagging in the middle due to the weight of my "coin books".
I don't have to look far to find a loupe laying around.
There are dozens of partially filled albums I was always intending to finish... some from 30+ years ago.
I have more PCGS blue boxes than fishing poles.
I spend endless hours on the computer looking at coins and coin forums.
I spend more time taking pictures of my coins than my family.
OMG... I am a collector afterall
Certain coins can be part of a well balanced portfolio.
I would suggest approx 5% of net worth.
By NOT investing in coins, you're actually INCREASING your risk.
The added benefit is that your hobby could possibly pay for itself (or more) over the long term.
Me, I keep track of what I spend on coins and what I think things are worth, what they will be worth, and what interests me.
<< <i>People who don't worry about money either don't have any to worry about or have so much it just doesn't matter. >>
That's not true at all- it just depends on how you look at it. This was posted in another thread, but it's relevant here, too:
" I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks any particular coin from my collection is worth. I bought them with disposable entertainment dollars. The average coin that I buy costs no more than another person might use to take a companion to a nice dinner and a concert/play a couple of times a month. The highest priced coins that I own cost less than what someone else might blow on a weekend in Vegas. As far as I am concerned the money I spend on coins is just as gone as the money those other people spent on their passtimes."
<< <i>It's not hard to find a collector, all you have to do is open your eyes. Lots of us here on the boards. >>
DITTO !! Even though I live on a fixed income (Social Security Disability) I ENJOY the hobby & whether _or not my collection appreciates, it'll be my heirs to reap any benefits.
<< <i>I'm still collecting - unemployment that is.
Every once in a while I pull out my coins and wonder what the same Dealers who sold me my Coins would say before making an offer for them.
"Oh, I don't buy that sort of stuff"
"That Coin is way overgraded"
"I can see someone has sold you all their junk"
" Come back, when you find your meaningful Coins"
They sure were good Coins when they sold them to me.
When my father died I sold his coins back to the B&M shop where he bought a lot of them. The owner said most of what I was selling was junk. I said "You know he got these coins from you". It was a brief feeling of satisfaction that resulted in no monetary gain on my part but educationally it was priceless.
1) Collect what you like
2) Learn how to grade
3) Learn the typical wholesale and retail prices for the coins your are interested in
4) Develop relationships with dealers and other collectors to get better access and better pricing
5) Enjoy the hobby"
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that message is a good one.
I started out being a collector, albeit an ignorant one looking for "pretty coins" . period.
the last few months I've decided to dump some real effort (and funds, not entirely discretionary) into the enterprise.
I've been drawn quickly and irreversibly toward the best coins I can afford (some latitude in that word), in areas that appeal.**
I must TRADE to fuel the COLLECTING obsession (just telling it like it is) ... an interesting bi-product of this dynamic equilibrium is that my collection is largely nice-value "keepables", some of which must be traded....
...........it seems that everywhere look, I find incredibly nice coins that fit my "needs" at good prices- for collectors, but tough prices for someone, a trader, who has to figure out what to jettison and not ooze "red" all over the place.
At worst, it's good training for operating in this environment. And it certainly makes me look critically at what I've done and where I'm going. One h311 of a ride!!! ......
** there's no way that I should be owning coins worth $300, 400, 500 or $1000. But I do. It may not be smart on my part, but I don't regret the choices.
1879-O{Rev}: 1st coin of my "secret set"
1. Collectors routinely trading with each other items whose values are barely worth more than the postage that it costs to ship/mail the collectible.
2. The thrill of the hunt rather than landing the kill. For many in the coin world, landing a so-called White Whale is merely a matter of saving up the money and then buying it. No real hunt as the coin is readily available in the market for X amount of dollars.
No surprise, but I agree with the people who look at their coin purchases as being money spent on entertainment. I know that I enjoy purchasing for my collection and looking at it afterward. Does a guy who spends $500+ on tickets to a concert or sporting event save his ticket stubs and leave the stubs and receipts from dinner that night to his wife and kid when he dies because it was some investment? Of course not. That $500+ was dead money as soon as it was spent. It's entertainment.
That being said, there is no denying that our collections have value way beyond their face. It is important to keep records of the general value of the mid to higher end coins so that if something should happen to us, those who decide to trade or sell our collections don't get ripped off. But there's a difference in protecting the sell of your collection down the road and buying for the sole purpose of turning a profit to begin with.
This is a hobby. It's supposed to be fun.
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Most of the profit/loss statements coming from the board are from folks that buy and sell in order to continue "collecting what they want".
After all, who in their right mind would pass up the opportunity to make a couple of hundred bucks on modern Lincolns so they could apply those funds toward their real collecting goals?
Make no mistake, there are some REAL collectors here.
The name is LEE!
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<< <i>But when I go out and spend $500 or $1000 on a single coin, how could I POSSIBLY not be concerned about its value, both present and future? >>
By honestly not caring. The average coin that I buy is in that range. Any coin that I purchase is not going to be for sale until after my death. What possible difference does it make to anyone other than my insurance company whether their current market value goes up or down? As for future value...my heirs can melt them down into paperweights for all I will care by then. I don't collect for their financial benefit. I collect for my emotional benefit. >>
So I guess because I DO care what my wife and son will get when they liquidate my collection after my passing, that im some sort of "weirdo"? Since when is looking out for your family's financial health a bad thing? >>
No one stated that looking out for your family's financial health was a bad thing. My family's future financial well-being is taken care of before I spend a dime on what to me is strictly entertainment. I would hope that yours is too. To me, disposable income is just exactly that--disposable. >>
care little about the future value of their coins - when I buy a pair of shoes I think about the pleasure I'll get from wearing them and they
certainly do not have any future value so why should I treat a coin any differently - or if I have a suit made, it is for pure enjoyment as it
certainly is not a store of value...I enjoy my coins like I enjoy a nice suit; they are guilty pleasures and I guess the coins just have
an added benefit of probably being worth something in the future.
Also the sentiment that people that don't obsess about the value of their coins have too much money etc. is plain silly if not ignorant.
I enjoy both the pictured items...and the future value of neither is on my mind...
But when I go out and spend $500 or $1000 on a single coin, how could I POSSIBLY not be concerned about its value, both present and future?
Not meant directly at the author of the above statement but are people really concerned about the future value of all their $500 purchases e.g the annual cable bill...
clearly cable television is a luxury at least to me and unless I'm mistaken cable service has no future value past the current month and its present
value is questionable - I guess I must acknowledge my ignorance and admit that I cannot understand why a collector singles out coins for future
value concerns and not other purchases.
The above kind of says what I was getting at. I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone, but my outlook is this:
Yes, I've spent more than $1000 on a single coin, and no, I certainly don't have enough money, that money means nothing to me. But, like someone else mentioned, it was all discretionary money. Yes, I sold my old type set to get cash to buy a couple MS66 Large Cents, and yes, I've bought US Mint Moderns to sell for a profit in order to get "extra" money for coins I collect. My attitude is truly that it's a Hobby, and the value is rather meaningless. Of course, I don't want to overpay when I buy, but, if it's something I really want, then yes, I'll "overpay".
My whole collection is probably only worth 20K, and life insurance, retirement accounts, ect will keep the wife happy if I croak. That's my main point, that I don't care about the value, I'm just nutty about Large Cents, but every one was bought with "extra" money, or money from trading/selling other parts of my collection. The present value comes from 30+ years of collecting, so it amounts to nothing over time. Also, I bought my 1811/10 Large Cent (raw at the time) for $50 from an EAC member. I traded $6.75 in junk silver for a (raw at the time) AU55 1847 Seated Dollar. I traded a bunch of Proof Sets (worth close to $500 at the time, much less today) for a (raw at the time) VF20 1798 Bust Dollar. Maybe that's why, if the Bust $ sold for $500, and the Seated for $70, and the Large Cent for $50, who cares? It was never an "investment", it was always a Hobby. But, like someone mentioned, I might be crazy (my wife always says I am), but I really don't care about the "present" value.
Hope I'm clear now, I think I worded it wrong the first time :-)
" By honestly not caring. The average coin that I buy is in that range. Any coin that I purchase is not going to be for sale until after my death. What possible difference does it make to anyone other than my insurance company whether their current market value goes up or down? As for future value...my heirs can melt them down into paperweights for all I will care by then. I don't collect for their financial benefit. I collect for my emotional benefit. "
I think OKbustchaser (above) understood what I meant, then again he just might be as "crazy" as I am :-)
I do not consider myself a "coin investor". HOWEVER, my experience of the last 20 years tells me coins are as good a place to put extra funds as the stock market (I know many will disagree). More important, I'd rather put that money into coins than into stocks. It's a lot more fun and, in many ways, safer. So, as I do with stocks, I watch the values of my coins, but am also happy just to have them.
On another vane, I will opin that my numismatic pursuits have a prurient flavour to them in the sense that I collect coins, banknotes etc. with feminine motifs. It is a lot more wholesome and healthy than pursuing of prurient interests with sundry females. And not near as costly, financially or emotionally.
<< <i>I think OKbustchaser (above) understood what I meant, then again he just might be as "crazy" as I am :-) >>
I think that being either an EAC (and I started out that way back in the 1960s) or a bust half guy MAKES one crazy even if he wasn't to begin with.
but i have spent tons of dollars on it!
K S
<< <i>I am always a little bewildered why people scoff so-to-speak at persons that pay little heed to what they pay for coins or persons that
care little about the future value of their coins - when I buy a pair of shoes I think about the pleasure I'll get from wearing them and they
certainly do not have any future value so why should I treat a coin any differently - or if I have a suit made, it is for pure enjoyment as it
certainly is not a store of value...I enjoy my coins like I enjoy a nice suit; they are guilty pleasures and I guess the coins just have
an added benefit of probably being worth something in the future.
Also the sentiment that people that don't obsess about the value of their coins have too much money etc. is plain silly if not ignorant.
.... >>
The shoes and suit are good analogies. Virtually no one thinks of them as monetary investments. A good majority of people will pay up for quality in those items. A good majority do care about getting value for their money. Only a few will not even look at the price, or shop around, and just buy the shoes or the suit if they like it. For coins, those that look at the price tag and comparison shop are not necessarily investors. Plenty of collectors want value for their money, will pay up for quality, but still want to be aware of the market prices because they don't want to pay way above the going rate.
<< <i>I don't think that the posters on this forum are representative of the general coin collecting public. There are a lot of dealers on here, as well as people who buy higher end coins with investment/resale value in mind. >>
xlnt point that alot of people forget
K S
1) So I can put them in my registry set.
2) Because PCGS have a much better resale value than others.
3) So, my collections will be easier to sell by my heirs when I'm gone and they know nothing about coins.
Also, the coins are much safer in holders than raw.
And as you can see by my sets.....I don't collect just top end coins. Most of my collection is VF-63 except for the Roosies.