I am a collector, and I do care where my money goes. To spend money you work for, even if its fun money, you should care about it if you lose or gain. To not is just weird to me.
People starve to death everyday and you dont care about where your money goes? Thats nuts to me.
<< <i>I am a collector and do care about the value of my coins. I collect PCGS coins for two make that three reasons.
1) So I can put them in my registry set. 2) Because PCGS have a much better resale value than others. 3) So, my collections will be easier to sell by my heirs when I'm gone and they know nothing about coins. >>
see, that's exactly what boggles my mind. why would a coin COLLECTOR be all worried about the process of GETTING RID of his coins?
yeah, i can see the whole registry set thingy, if it's REALLY that importnat to you, but the idea that you "collect" something w/ all kinds of concern about how you can "uncollect" it is wacky.
I collect because I feel compelled to. When the market goes down, I am appreciative of the buying opportunity. Like Travers said, a true collector, one with a love of and an eye for coins, will always outperform pure dealers or pure investors who have less appreciation for coins. I would like to think that my coins will be valuable some day, but no intention to sell.
<< <i>I am a collector, and I do care where my money goes. To spend money you work for, even if its fun money, you should care about it if you lose or gain. To not is just weird to me.
People starve to death everyday and you dont care about where your money goes? Thats nuts to me. >>
Do you ever go see a movie at a first-run theater? If so, why spend 10 bucks to see a film that will be on TV in a few months for free? How about going to a football game that you could just as easily have watched from home? Can you recover that money? The thing that is "weird to me" is a person who stresses over how someone else has fun.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
<< <i>I am a collector, and I do care where my money goes. To spend money you work for, even if its fun money, you should care about it if you lose or gain. To not is just weird to me.
People starve to death everyday and you dont care about where your money goes? Thats nuts to me. >>
I am kind of "nuts", I can't deny that! I also "collect" antique tractors. Of course, I do use a couple of those on the property, for mowing, and brushhogging the trails. But, I'm "restoring" one right now, and I'll have around 6K in it when done. If I sold it "restored", I'd probably get a hair over 3K for it. So yes, there is absolutely no doubt that I'm "nuts", but life is for living. If I spent my whole life worrying about "people starving", I guess I'd never go out to dinner, buy a new truck, go golfing, ect. And yes, I do give as much as possible to a number of different charities, but I also like to enjoy life. I do not consider anything that is done for enjoyment, or entertainment, to be an investment. I'm sure there are things you spend money on, even while people are starving. All of this is said with "tongue in cheek", no offense meant, and I certainly wasn't offended. Just trying to make a point. I was serious, however, in that there is no doubt that I'm a bit "nuts" :-)
To spend money you work for, even if its fun money, you should care about it if you lose or gain. To not is just weird to me.
Again, not to single out the above author...but I must be living on another planet: do people really consider losses and gains on all their purchases - I probably spend $500 per year on my morning cup of coffee and a muffin, is it weird that I don't consider the gain on this expenditure? If not then why is it any different for the collector to spend the same amount on a coin and not care if it increases in value especially since the coin will last longer than the muffins and thus can be enjoyed for a much longer time than the morning coffee.
I am not suggesting that it is weird to care about the value of coin purchases, it may be prudent...but if one is going to argue that it is weird not to care about the value of coin purchases then please augment the argument with an explanation as to why one dismisses the future value of a myriad of other purchases.
I enjoy Large Cents - I can't really tell you why. Maybe it's their charm. When I decide to buy one, I follow the general guidelines I learned when I first started collecting - buy the nicest that you can afford. This has led to some "soul-searching" on more than one occasion, but after the coin is bought - that is when the value becomes irrelevant to me. At that point, it's a "sunk cost" and of no concern since I'm not in the market to sell. I figure that we're going to be together awhile and I've found that I enjoy nicer coins when I can afford them. When times are such that I can't afford a nice one, I don't buy it.
I also enjoy Modern Bullion, and let me tell you why. It's brand-new and shiny (without having to be dipped, polished or cleaned). It's generally well-made and doesn't have alot of obscure minor varieties that aren't really worth anything extra (unless it's yours). You don't have to endure looking at a poorly-made branch mint piece that's seen better days and oogle over how much history it "might have seen" - thereby imparting some mystical premium over melt.
Modern Bullion is worth about what you paid for it until the bullion prices change. It's always convertible into fiat money that you can spend out in the "real world" on food, and travel and mortgages or kids.
Modern Bullion is collectable. It doesn't require plastic although plastic can be a benefit. Mintages matter. It doesn't require a bank account, a brokerage account, a retirement account or an investment advisor. It can't go out of business and into bankruptcy, leaving you without your principal. Finally - it's accountable, and has no counterparty risk. What's not to like?
It's true that I would cash out of most of my Modern Bullion before I'd sell my Large Cents. They do represent a different place in time to me - a place in time that I'd have liked to have visited. And yet, some of my older Modern Bullion pieces represent a different place in time that I HAVE visited. The distinction is not as dramatic as some would think. That's a point worth making, imo.
It's my position that Large Cents and Modern Bullion are part of the same continuum, contrary to what some purists might believe. As such, I don't think that you can separate coin collecting and investing, since they seem to be on the same continuum.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
...........i collect because i find the hobby interesting. i don't really worry about buying a coin for investment, although it is fun to see a coin that was acquired years ago be worth many times what you paid for it initially.
...........the bottom line is i KNOW my collection is worth FACE value and that is about $15,000...
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
I would like to believe I am a collector, I have specific goals and a profit is low on the priority list. But I do collect coins that have potential and would also like to believe that some day they will be worth more than I paid.
<< <i>I would like to believe I am a collector, I have specific goals and a profit is low on the priority list. But I do collect coins that have potential and would also like to believe that some day they will be worth more than I paid. >>
Certainly nothing wrong with that! My whole point was, that to me, my collection is like my old tractors, nothing about making money on them, I just get enjoyment from them.
jmski, I have a 1957 (1958 Model year) Ford 601, and it looks like a twin to yours! She's my brushhogging tractor. I also have a 1946 Farmall A, for mowing, a 1940 Allis B, not running at present, a 1979 Power King, also for mowing, and a 1951 Massey Harris Pony, she's the one I'm restoring. Actually, everything has been redone at this point, but now I need to paint her, and hope I can remember how to put everything back together! I love these old girls even more than my Large Cents!
<< <i>I would like to believe I am a collector, I have specific goals and a profit is low on the priority list. But I do collect coins that have potential and would also like to believe that some day they will be worth more than I paid. >>
Certainly nothing wrong with that! My whole point was, that to me, my collection is like my old tractors, nothing about making money on them, I just get enjoyment from them. >>
I do too, I have thought about selling some of my main set and every time I pull out the collection the sell thoughts quickly leaves my mind. I even like the beat up crummy ones that would never be sold by some big name dealers.
THERE!! I SAID IT!! That's always the first step towards recovery!
To echo SaorAlba, I also collect coins because I like them as pieces of history, geography, art, etc...... They are a way to connect with the past, as well as with my kids and other collectors.
I started collecting Lincoln cents in a blue Whitman tri-folder about 50 years ago with the help of my grandparents. From there, I expanded to the usual U.S. folders for nickels thru halves. Sometimes (not long after silver was discontinued & prices were about 4x face) we'd walk down to the "refining" district in Philly together and I'd search thru coffee cans full of "melt" silver dimes & quarters looking for ones to fill holes in my folders - - and stress over how many I could "afford" at any given time! (I sure wish I knew THEN what I know NOW, as my collection, unfortunately, never expanded to the Barber or SLQ varieties when they were still somewhat available...) And I still have the Mint & Proof Sets they gave me every birthday. Just 1 set a year.... no hordes or tons to "crack-out looking for gems to submit i plastic, etc.......
I have fond memories of those times. I STILL primarily collect to fill my now-over-150 various Whitman blue folders (between my collections and those of my kids), only now it's mainly to keep current, or expanded to include the Whitman folders from countries like UK, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Canada, Euros, etc...
I LOVE many of the old U.S. designs like the IHC, SLQ, Walkers, Morgans, etc, and I think my next adventure might be to try to put together a nice Type set, either in a folder or like one of those "framed" collections.....
A great thrill I get as well is when I can take something from my hobby and use it to help my kids understand something from a historical perspective, such as why coin compositions changed, or why there are "overmarked" stamps & bills from places like post-WW1 Germany (I also used to collect stamps & have recently picked-up a few old bills from the "grab box" at the local coin show), or I can send various coins in with them as part of a presentation they are making in school to show & pass around. It makes for a real connection..........
And, as a collector, I have made numerous contacts & friends with fellow members of this Forum, and have benefitted greatly from the generosity of many of you thru swapping "P" for "D" , purchases, trades , and even outright gifts! For all that help, I am truly grateful! I have started "paying it forward" by also offerring my help with newbies on this Forum when I can, and recently giving odds-n-ends to the local club to give out to YN's at each monthly coin show (old folders, misc coins/stamps, etc). What a wonderful sense of community!
Sometimes, as a "small fish", I get a bit down when I see all the dealers tables with TONS of slabs, Colonial coins, Large-size currency, bulk silver, gold, etc, and realize that just one or two of their coins on display could likely "buy" my entire collection............. but then I remember why I'm in the hobby in the first place, and all is right with the world again!!
<< <i>Why is it when I go to sell a coin the dealer tells me he doesn't care what I thought the grade was, and he doesn't care what it cost me, and he doesn't care when I bought it. But when dealers tell me they can't reduce the prices the reasons they give are all that. >>
If you don't like dealing with dealers, then stop doing it.
<< <i>Why is it when I go to sell a coin the dealer tells me he doesn't care what I thought the grade was, and he doesn't care what it cost me, and he doesn't care when I bought it. But when dealers tell me they can't reduce the prices the reasons they give are all that. >>
If you don't like dealing with dealers, then stop doing it. >>
Could also be that your dealing with the wrong dealer...
I'm a collector, I have a small collection (almost all raw coins), and the coins don't go very far up or down in value. They aren't investments.....my coins are, however, cash I have tied up in non instanteously liquid assets. I've done the plastic thing and it has its merits and when I did have beaucoup $'s in coins, I was worried about the fluctuations in value. Today, that's a thing of the past and I'm better for it (I think).
Craig If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
<< <i>The only one(s) who say collectors should not be concerned with the value of your coins, with making a profit with you coins, with investing in coins, and with doing any flipping or short term goals are dealers. >>
totally FALSE. i know of numerous collectors who agree w/ what you are claming "only dealers" say
Comments
People starve to death everyday and you dont care about where your money goes? Thats nuts to me.
<< <i>I am a collector and do care about the value of my coins. I collect PCGS coins for two make that three reasons.
1) So I can put them in my registry set.
2) Because PCGS have a much better resale value than others.
3) So, my collections will be easier to sell by my heirs when I'm gone and they know nothing about coins. >>
see, that's exactly what boggles my mind. why would a coin COLLECTOR be all worried about the process of GETTING RID of his coins?
yeah, i can see the whole registry set thingy, if it's REALLY that importnat to you, but the idea that you "collect" something w/ all kinds of concern about how you can "uncollect" it is wacky.
make up your mind!!!
K S
<< <i>I am a collector, and I do care where my money goes. To spend money you work for, even if its fun money, you should care about it if you lose or gain. To not is just weird to me.
People starve to death everyday and you dont care about where your money goes? Thats nuts to me. >>
Do you ever go see a movie at a first-run theater? If so, why spend 10 bucks to see a film that will be on TV in a few months for free? How about going to a football game that you could just as easily have watched from home? Can you recover that money? The thing that is "weird to me" is a person who stresses over how someone else has fun.
<< <i>I am a collector, and I do care where my money goes. To spend money you work for, even if its fun money, you should care about it if you lose or gain. To not is just weird to me.
People starve to death everyday and you dont care about where your money goes? Thats nuts to me. >>
I am kind of "nuts", I can't deny that! I also "collect" antique tractors. Of course, I do use a couple of those on the property, for mowing, and brushhogging the trails. But, I'm "restoring" one right now, and I'll have around 6K in it when done. If I sold it "restored", I'd probably get a hair over 3K for it. So yes, there is absolutely no doubt that I'm "nuts", but life is for living. If I spent my whole life worrying about "people starving", I guess I'd never go out to dinner, buy a new truck, go golfing, ect. And yes, I do give as much as possible to a number of different charities, but I also like to enjoy life. I do not consider anything that is done for enjoyment, or entertainment, to be an investment. I'm sure there are things you spend money on, even while people are starving. All of this is said with "tongue in cheek", no offense meant, and I certainly wasn't offended. Just trying to make a point. I was serious, however, in that there is no doubt that I'm a bit "nuts" :-)
Again, not to single out the above author...but I must be living on another planet: do people really consider losses and gains on all
their purchases - I probably spend $500 per year on my morning cup of coffee and a muffin, is it weird that I don't consider the gain on this
expenditure? If not then why is it any different for the collector to spend the same amount on a coin and not care if it increases in value
especially since the coin will last longer than the muffins and thus can be enjoyed for a much longer time than the morning coffee.
I am not suggesting that it is weird to care about the value of coin purchases, it may be prudent...but if one is going to argue that it is weird not
to care about the value of coin purchases then please augment the argument with an explanation as to why one dismisses the future value of a myriad
of other purchases.
I also enjoy Modern Bullion, and let me tell you why. It's brand-new and shiny (without having to be dipped, polished or cleaned). It's generally well-made and doesn't have alot of obscure minor varieties that aren't really worth anything extra (unless it's yours). You don't have to endure looking at a poorly-made branch mint piece that's seen better days and oogle over how much history it "might have seen" - thereby imparting some mystical premium over melt.
Modern Bullion is worth about what you paid for it until the bullion prices change. It's always convertible into fiat money that you can spend out in the "real world" on food, and travel and mortgages or kids.
Modern Bullion is collectable. It doesn't require plastic although plastic can be a benefit. Mintages matter. It doesn't require a bank account, a brokerage account, a retirement account or an investment advisor. It can't go out of business and into bankruptcy, leaving you without your principal. Finally - it's accountable, and has no counterparty risk. What's not to like?
It's true that I would cash out of most of my Modern Bullion before I'd sell my Large Cents. They do represent a different place in time to me - a place in time that I'd have liked to have visited. And yet, some of my older Modern Bullion pieces represent a different place in time that I HAVE visited. The distinction is not as dramatic as some would think. That's a point worth making, imo.
It's my position that Large Cents and Modern Bullion are part of the same continuum, contrary to what some purists might believe. As such, I don't think that you can separate coin collecting and investing, since they seem to be on the same continuum.
I knew it would happen.
...........i collect because i find the hobby interesting. i don't really worry about buying a coin for investment, although it is fun to see a coin that was acquired years ago be worth many times what you paid for it initially.
...........the bottom line is i KNOW my collection is worth FACE value and that is about $15,000...
<< <i>I would like to believe I am a collector, I have specific goals and a profit is low on the priority list. But I do collect coins that have potential and would also like to believe that some day they will be worth more than I paid.
Certainly nothing wrong with that! My whole point was, that to me, my collection is like my old tractors, nothing about making money on them, I just get enjoyment from them.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>I would like to believe I am a collector, I have specific goals and a profit is low on the priority list. But I do collect coins that have potential and would also like to believe that some day they will be worth more than I paid.
Certainly nothing wrong with that! My whole point was, that to me, my collection is like my old tractors, nothing about making money on them, I just get enjoyment from them. >>
I do too, I have thought about selling some of my main set and every time I pull out the collection the sell thoughts quickly leaves my mind. I even like the beat up crummy ones that would never be sold by some big name dealers.
Hi! I am Dave, and I am a COLLECTOR!!
THERE!! I SAID IT!! That's always the first step towards recovery!
To echo SaorAlba, I also collect coins because I like them as pieces of history, geography, art, etc...... They are a way to connect with the past, as well as with my kids and other collectors.
I started collecting Lincoln cents in a blue Whitman tri-folder about 50 years ago with the help of my grandparents. From there, I expanded to the usual U.S. folders for nickels thru halves. Sometimes (not long after silver was discontinued & prices were about 4x face) we'd walk down to the "refining" district in Philly together and I'd search thru coffee cans full of "melt" silver dimes & quarters looking for ones to fill holes in my folders - - and stress over how many I could "afford" at any given time! (I sure wish I knew THEN what I know NOW, as my collection, unfortunately, never expanded to the Barber or SLQ varieties when they were still somewhat available...) And I still have the Mint & Proof Sets they gave me every birthday. Just 1 set a year.... no hordes or tons to "crack-out looking for gems to submit i plastic, etc.......
I have fond memories of those times. I STILL primarily collect to fill my now-over-150 various Whitman blue folders (between my collections and those of my kids), only now it's mainly to keep current, or expanded to include the Whitman folders from countries like UK, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Canada, Euros, etc...
I LOVE many of the old U.S. designs like the IHC, SLQ, Walkers, Morgans, etc, and I think my next adventure might be to try to put together a nice Type set, either in a folder or like one of those "framed" collections.....
A great thrill I get as well is when I can take something from my hobby and use it to help my kids understand something from a historical perspective, such as why coin compositions changed, or why there are "overmarked" stamps & bills from places like post-WW1 Germany (I also used to collect stamps & have recently picked-up a few old bills from the "grab box" at the local coin show), or I can send various coins in with them as part of a presentation they are making in school to show & pass around. It makes for a real connection..........
And, as a collector, I have made numerous contacts & friends with fellow members of this Forum, and have benefitted greatly from the generosity of many of you thru swapping "P" for "D" , purchases, trades , and even outright gifts! For all that help, I am truly grateful! I have started "paying it forward" by also offerring my help with newbies on this Forum when I can, and recently giving odds-n-ends to the local club to give out to YN's at each monthly coin show (old folders, misc coins/stamps, etc). What a wonderful sense of community!
Sometimes, as a "small fish", I get a bit down when I see all the dealers tables with TONS of slabs, Colonial coins, Large-size currency, bulk silver, gold, etc, and realize that just one or two of their coins on display could likely "buy" my entire collection............. but then I remember why I'm in the hobby in the first place, and all is right with the world again!!
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest!!
- - Dave
<< <i>Why is it when I go to sell a coin the dealer tells me he doesn't care what I thought the grade was, and he doesn't care what it cost me, and he doesn't care when I bought it. But when dealers tell me they can't reduce the prices the reasons they give are all that.
If you don't like dealing with dealers, then stop doing it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why is it when I go to sell a coin the dealer tells me he doesn't care what I thought the grade was, and he doesn't care what it cost me, and he doesn't care when I bought it. But when dealers tell me they can't reduce the prices the reasons they give are all that.
If you don't like dealing with dealers, then stop doing it.
Could also be that your dealing with the wrong dealer...
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
<< <i>The only one(s) who say collectors should not be concerned with the value of your coins, with making a profit with you coins, with investing in coins, and with doing any flipping or short term goals are dealers. >>
totally FALSE. i know of numerous collectors who agree w/ what you are claming "only dealers" say
K S