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And in the end, SportsModerator says im wrong.
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
New BST policy in place. Mums the word.
0
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
Comments
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I think that was a majority vote.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
Oftentimes it is better to let the thread die.
Hmmm, I do not see my BST thread? LOL. Oh thats right I am too busy to sell (or buy) coins until I finish my tax season as a CPA.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>Frankly, I applaud the new policy (even though I rarely ever sell on the BST). It's long overdue... >>
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Remember the old saying :
"If the shoe fits...wear it "
Live and Let Live. Think of that place like a mall with many stores. If you don't like what is in the store, don't go in. If you do, purchase the goods and get out.
<< <i>I think what the mods are trying to say is that if you aren't interested in buying the coin, then don't jump in the thread. I have always thought it extremely poor tast to get on a thread and talk down the coin being offered or the price. If you aren't interested then go to the next thread, if you really feel like you have to say something then at least limit it to a PM, no reason to publicly trash people or their coins. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think what the mods are trying to say is that if you aren't interested in buying the coin, then don't jump in the thread. I have always thought it extremely poor tast to get on a thread and talk down the coin being offered or the price. If you aren't interested then go to the next thread, if you really feel like you have to say something then at least limit it to a PM, no reason to publicly trash people or their coins. >>
>>
I respectfully disagree with the position here. It is important to let people know what you think of the coin, especially on a public forum, so people don't get misled. With SportsModerator's policy, this honestly implies an unfair perception, which are
1. Everybody who views this forum has an excellent knowledge of coins, and the quality of prices thereof.
2. There are no bad apples on the BST.
Let's take, for example, the seatedlibertykeys fiasco. Were we wrong to criticize his sales tactics? We need to let people know when things seem too good to be true, and when items are unfairly priced so as not to prevent resentment over a most likely overgraded or overpriced item.
<< <i>We need to let people know when things seem too good to be true, >>
We need to? And do we need to go down to McDonald's and stand at the counter telling people that the food they're ordering might not be good for them, too?
<< <i>and when items are unfairly priced so as not to prevent resentment over a most likely overgraded or overpriced item. >>
"Unfairly" based on whose opinion? Yours? Mine? Somebody else's? What's wrong with letting people make their own decisions regarding what's fairly priced, without a bunch of heckling from the gallery?
Do you *really* know better than the seller and prospective buyers what the "fair" price should be?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think what the mods are trying to say is that if you aren't interested in buying the coin, then don't jump in the thread. I have always thought it extremely poor tast to get on a thread and talk down the coin being offered or the price. If you aren't interested then go to the next thread, if you really feel like you have to say something then at least limit it to a PM, no reason to publicly trash people or their coins. >>
>>
I respectfully disagree with the position here. It is important to let people know what you think of the coin, especially on a public forum, so people don't get misled. With SportsModerator's policy, this honestly implies an unfair perception, which are
1. Everybody who views this forum has an excellent knowledge of coins, and the quality of prices thereof.
2. There are no bad apples on the BST.
Let's take, for example, the seatedlibertykeys fiasco. Were we wrong to criticize his sales tactics? We need to let people know when things seem too good to be true, and when items are unfairly priced so as not to prevent resentment over a most likely overgraded or overpriced item. >>
I agree. If CHAMELEON posts a bunch of toners on the BST, it should be noted that he routinely tweaks the photos. If ManOfCoins posts a bunch of toners then it should be noted that he has AT'd coins in the past and sold them as being NT. I'm sure there are other examples as well.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think what the mods are trying to say is that if you aren't interested in buying the coin, then don't jump in the thread. I have always thought it extremely poor tast to get on a thread and talk down the coin being offered or the price. If you aren't interested then go to the next thread, if you really feel like you have to say something then at least limit it to a PM, no reason to publicly trash people or their coins. >>
>>
I respectfully disagree with the position here. It is important to let people know what you think of the coin, especially on a public forum, so people don't get misled. With SportsModerator's policy, this honestly implies an unfair perception, which are
1. Everybody who views this forum has an excellent knowledge of coins, and the quality of prices thereof.
2. There are no bad apples on the BST.
Let's take, for example, the seatedlibertykeys fiasco. Were we wrong to criticize his sales tactics? We need to let people know when things seem too good to be true, and when items are unfairly priced so as not to prevent resentment over a most likely overgraded or overpriced item. >>
In that situation, I can agree with you. If a seller is openly misrepresenting an item, and if he receives multiple PMs from members and does nothing to resolve the situation, then by all means, I think he should be flamed by the forum.
However, as I observed today, people on the BST were being attacked by multiple members for the prices they were charging on their items. They were not being misrepresented in any way, but the posters did not like the price being charged. That's plain uncalled for.
To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
By the way, there's nothing wrong with tweaking photos, ie; color correction, cropping, etc. It's hard to make a coin look much better than it is. You can shine a Corvette, but you can't polish a turd.
Thanks to the memberes who drove me away from the Merc and thanks to the member who sold me the awesome washy
<< <i>Mama always said... "If ya ain't got nothin' nice to say, then don't say nothin' at all."
By the way, there's nothing wrong with tweaking photos, ie; color correction, cropping, etc. It's hard to make a coin look much better than it is. You can shine a Corvette, but you can't polish a turd. >>
Did you actually see the pictures in question? Not to mention that the guy has had a handful of complaints from buyers that the coin and the picture didn't match.
<< <i>Mama always said... "If ya ain't got nothin' nice to say, then don't say nothin' at all."
By the way, there's nothing wrong with tweaking photos, ie; color correction, cropping, etc. It's hard to make a coin look much better than it is. You can shine a Corvette, but you can't polish a turd. >>
I will disagree. tweaking photos can make a run-of-the-mill toner look world-class, when the coin will never look anything like it in hand.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>In that situation, I can agree with you. If a seller is openly misrepresenting an item, and if he receives multiple PMs from members and does nothing to resolve the situation, then by all means, I think he should be flamed by the forum.
However, as I observed today, people on the BST were being attacked by multiple members for the prices they were charging on their items. They were not being misrepresented in any way, but the posters did not like the price being charged. That's plain uncalled for. >>
Excellent reply.
Furthermore, from a moderation standpoint it pretty much has to be an all-or-nothing proposition. Any shades of gray and it becomes impossible to mediate.
There are too many self-appointed BST nazis here that believe if they personally disagree with someone else's asking price that they have the right to be the judge, jury, and executioner and crap on the other person's listing.
Entirely too many of the self-proclaimed experts here, in fact, are not.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Ever Onward
<< <i>Frankly, I applaud the new policy (even though I rarely ever sell on the BST). It's long overdue... >>
I agree.
<< <i>Frankly, I applaud the new policy (even though I rarely ever sell on the BST). It's long overdue... >>
There's a BST forum on here????????????????
<< <i>
<< <i>Frankly, I applaud the new policy (even though I rarely ever sell on the BST). It's long overdue... >>
Heck, a ton of forum members told you the way you approached it was uncool, but you ignored them and argued.
It's too bad that SM1, and others, have to create rules against what should be common sense. Some people on here are like the kids that decide to use the playground for a bathroom just because there isn't a rule against it...yet....then wonder why they get in trouble or a rule is created.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
SM's BST post seems perfectly reasonable. I haven't kept track of the instances to which he refers, but I'd think that if there is an inkling that he may be referring to your behavior on the BST, you probably should just assume that he is, take his advice to heart, and move on.
<< <i>Apparently its perfectly acceptable to link an eBay auction to these forums and critique that, but not something for sale here, no matter how ridiculous the asking price, nor how hyped the item is by the seller. Public opinion is a GOOD THING! I just wish that I had a good 5 or 6 comments about most of the stuff I had purchased earlier in my numismatic years. Woulda saved me ALOT of money! >>
Did you buy them on the BST forum?
The name is LEE!
This entire episode started with what appeared to be an overprice Peace Dollar which others attested to the fact that toned Peace Dollars are not that common and usually get a much higher price than one would expect.
Its up to the seller to state his/her price and then let the potential buyer ask questions if a concern arises. A simple question on the Coin Forum could have been used instead of trashing the sellers BST thread. Trashing a thread is the same as steering customers away from a business because of what the trasher feels are high prices within that business. Its just not cool as buyers need to take responsibility for their own actions and do their own shopping.
The name is LEE!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>With that last statement I almost want to agree with gecko... but the problem is that some/most folks haven't been that polite when questioning/criticizing the BST posts. It's possible that a friendly PM to the seller, or the creation of a general discussion thread on one of the non-BST forums (such as "What is the current going rate for the UHR??" or "What is a set of silver pandas worth??"), could have maybe worked out and assisted the rookie buyer in making a more informed decision. Instead, some have just been plain rude to the OPs. When folks don't act like adults a complete ban of commentary is the result unfortunately. >>
I agree with you. I'm still not sure of the policy, whether it is inappropriate to bash someone in the thread itself, and that we could bash indirectly through a link, or whether it is not good policy to bash someone on the BST regardless.
<< <i>With that last statement I almost want to agree with gecko... but the problem is that some/most folks haven't been that polite when questioning/criticizing the BST posts. It's possible that a friendly PM to the seller, or the creation of a general discussion thread on one of the non-BST forums (such as "What is the current going rate for the UHR??" or "What is a set of silver pandas worth??"), could have maybe worked out and assisted the rookie buyer in making a more informed decision. Instead, some have just been plain rude to the OPs. When folks don't act like adults a complete ban of commentary is the result unfortunately. >>
Before you "agree with gecko", you should realize the rest of your post is basically "about gecko"
I would agree that a PM is one thing and all for that. But, if someone wants to ask for moon money, they are welcome to do it...and may their inventory rot in their hands for it. But, that's their business.
If someone wants to buy it for moon money, I hope they know what they are doing and are ok with their choice (I always ask myself..."if I were to throw away this money, instead of buying this item, what would the affect be? Am I ok with that?")
If the answer is no, then I don't do it. If it is yes, then it's just like gambling to me.
Now, if someone is selling something counterfeit, and isn't stating that, and it is obvious...or, they are juicy the photos more than a sunkist orange could, then that is something that should be called out....but may not be able to anymore because of how gecko handles things and his actions so far (and a few others like him).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
All is fair when the mighty Gecko makes obscene ripoff profits, selling to know-nothing fan-boys. Any other dealer would have been crucified by the mighty Gecko, if they had dared offer something like those mini-bread loaf bars at $36 an ounce. How Gecko can criticize others on pricing, when he would have called someone else charging that kind of price, a flat out crook, is beyond me. Look in the mirror Gecko. Stop throwing stones. Donate all those obscene ripoff profits to charity. Don't try and argue the point, you know in your heart of hearts, if any other dealer sold home rolled silver bullion bars at $36 an ounce when spot was $12, you would have called them a crook, or worse. Live by your own code you hypocrite.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
All is fair when the mighty Gecko makes obscene ripoff profits, selling to know-nothing fan-boys. Any other dealer would have been crucified by the mighty Gecko, if they had dared offer something like those mini-bread loaf bars at $36 an ounce. How Gecko can criticize others on pricing, when he would have called someone else charging that kind of price, a flat out crook, is beyond me. Look in the mirror Gecko. Stop throwing stones. Donate all those obscene ripoff profits to charity. Don't try and argue the point, you know in your heart of hearts, if any other dealer sold home rolled silver bullion bars at $36 an ounce when spot was $12, you would have called them a crook, or worse. Live by your own code you hypocrite.
I'm glad someone said it ...
and like too many, a prolific, self-proclaimed expert poster that is much too full of themselves
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
<< <i>All is fair when the mighty Gecko makes obscene ripoff profits... >>
Actually, he *did* have to buy equipment for making the bars, so that makes it okay to charge extra. At least, that's what he said.
<< <i>Gecko is the among the worst when it comes to overpricing. He sold a boat load of home made silver bars for $1 a gram to his fan-boys, avoiding any mention of the fact that price translates into $36 per troy ounce. At the time that was three times the melt value of $12. It is stunning that he has the gall to criticize others for overpricing--give me an effing break. Gecko's buy back on his home made bars is melt value--nice 200% mark up on bullion bars! At least offer what new material might cost (above melt) as a buy-back so the fan-boys might catch a break when they fall on hard times.
All is fair when the mighty Gecko makes obscene ripoff profits, selling to know-nothing fan-boys. Any other dealer would have been crucified by the mighty Gecko, if they had dared offer something like those mini-bread loaf bars at $36 an ounce. How Gecko can criticize others on pricing, when he would have called someone else charging that kind of price, a flat out crook, is beyond me. Look in the mirror Gecko. Stop throwing stones. Donate all those obscene ripoff profits to charity. Don't try and argue the point, you know in your heart of hearts, if any other dealer sold home rolled silver bullion bars at $36 an ounce when spot was $12, you would have called them a crook, or worse. Live by your own code you hypocrite. >>
I don't want to be accused of being a "fan-boy" of gecko's but I will say this. I collect odd/rare/unusual silver bars much like you guys collect coins. I purchased 2 small bars from gecko @ $1 per gram and 1 of his 2.5 oz bars for $20/oz. I was well aware as I'm sure anyone else who purchased these was that $1/gram equals $31/oz, Its not that hard of an equation but guess what, You got it wrong lol. I have paid well over $300/oz for a silver bar without hesitation so $1 gram, didn't bother me. I bought them for my collection, they're neat little ingots and he put a lot of time/effort and setup cost into making these. I thought the price was fair and I don't think he tried to fool anyone by pricing them by the gram instead of by the oz, It just made sense given the size of the bars. There were plenty of members to bash him for his prices on these bars in the open forum and I saw this before buying, It didn't discourage me.
As for the resell, Anyone who falls on hard times and needs to sell a $15 item to get back on their feet shouldn't be buying anything but necessities anyhow. I recently sold one of the gram sized bars I bought from him on eBay and it sold for a few bucks more than I paid for it to someone who didn't even know Phil. I also sold the 2.5 oz bar b/c I didn't care for how it turned out, Guess what, It sold for the exact same price that I paid for it, again to someone who didn't even know him. Since you guys are quick to use auction prices realized to get FMV for your coins I think this confirms the price gecko charged was right on. You are comparing apples to oranges. There are price guides and current market venues to compare coins, tokens, silver rounds to but there was nothing to compare these one off bars that gecko made therefor who are you to say they were overpriced? Is that your area of collecting? Do you have something to compare it to?
one either buys or passes.
While compliments are always
appreciated, disparaging remarks
are always wrong. You should be
lashed severely, with a wet noodle.
Camelot
Bashing someone's BST thread is plain wrong...PERIOD.
Comparing it to a thread on this Coin Forum about a potentially bogus ebay offering is also wrong. We do not jump all over the ebay listing... we discuss it here... we email the seller and if needed, report it to ebay.
As another poster to this thread pointed out (as I also did in my first posts to this forum)... the same behavior at a coin show would get a person thrown out of that show. If a person is attempting to commit fraud at a show, it is reported to the promoter/organizer. Every contract that I ever signed to do a show, includes a clause regarding offering fraudulent coins...whether counterfeit or totally misrepresented material.
Here on the BST, a simple "alert" thread on this Coin Forum along with a few PM's to SM1 or carol should be sufficient. There are plenty of experts available in their office to verify if the offering is fraudulent... and a stroke of a few keys will have the thread nuked and a PM to the "seller" sent.
As for asking prices... if I choose to post a Lincoln cent I got in change today for $1 million, that is my choice... silly as it may be. The only "crime" would be wasting bandwidth and pushing legitimate offerings down the line of the BST. Of course no one would buy the cent...and this example is "over the top"...
...yet I see some of the listings on the BST... more than half are for stupid money... there are alot of folks here who really think their coins are worth a whole lot more than I do... and there are those who are willing to pay those prices... their money...their choice...
I simply PM with what I feel is an approriate offer or exit the thread and move on...
I'd like to add a public message to Phil (Gecko109) ... I honor the life work you have chosen as a Fireman... it is something I doubt I could ever do... to be willing to run into a burning building and put oneself into harms way like that... I honor and respect you and all those who are willing to do this when it is needed...
I am a Veteran and work at the VA... I will offer to you, Phil, something I have had to say to the few Vets who behave in a less-than-honorable way at our Hospital... "Being a Veteran earns my respect and gratitude and that of our nation...BUT it does not give you the right to be a rude a@#"
(edited for spelling)
<< <i>
<< <i>Gecko is the among the worst when it comes to overpricing. He sold a boat load of home made silver bars for $1 a gram to his fan-boys, avoiding any mention of the fact that price translates into $36 per troy ounce. At the time that was three times the melt value of $12. It is stunning that he has the gall to criticize others for overpricing--give me an effing break. Gecko's buy back on his home made bars is melt value--nice 200% mark up on bullion bars! At least offer what new material might cost (above melt) as a buy-back so the fan-boys might catch a break when they fall on hard times.
All is fair when the mighty Gecko makes obscene ripoff profits, selling to know-nothing fan-boys. Any other dealer would have been crucified by the mighty Gecko, if they had dared offer something like those mini-bread loaf bars at $36 an ounce. How Gecko can criticize others on pricing, when he would have called someone else charging that kind of price, a flat out crook, is beyond me. Look in the mirror Gecko. Stop throwing stones. Donate all those obscene ripoff profits to charity. Don't try and argue the point, you know in your heart of hearts, if any other dealer sold home rolled silver bullion bars at $36 an ounce when spot was $12, you would have called them a crook, or worse. Live by your own code you hypocrite. >>
I don't want to be accused of being a "fan-boy" of gecko's but I will say this. I collect odd/rare/unusual silver bars much like you guys collect coins. I purchased 2 small bars from gecko @ $1 per gram and 1 of his 2.5 oz bars for $20/oz. I was well aware as I'm sure anyone else who purchased these was that $1/gram equals $31/oz, Its not that hard of an equation but guess what, You got it wrong lol. I have paid well over $300/oz for a silver bar without hesitation so $1 gram, didn't bother me. I bought them for my collection, they're neat little ingots and he put a lot of time/effort and setup cost into making these. I thought the price was fair and I don't think he tried to fool anyone by pricing them by the gram instead of by the oz, It just made sense given the size of the bars. There were plenty of members to bash him for his prices on these bars in the open forum and I saw this before buying, It didn't discourage me.
As for the resell, Anyone who falls on hard times and needs to sell a $15 item to get back on their feet shouldn't be buying anything but necessities anyhow. I recently sold one of the gram sized bars I bought from him on eBay and it sold for a few bucks more than I paid for it to someone who didn't even know Phil. I also sold the 2.5 oz bar b/c I didn't care for how it turned out, Guess what, It sold for the exact same price that I paid for it, again to someone who didn't even know him. Since you guys are quick to use auction prices realized to get FMV for your coins I think this confirms the price gecko charged was right on. You are comparing apples to oranges. There are price guides and current market venues to compare coins, tokens, silver rounds to but there was nothing to compare these one off bars that gecko made therefor who are you to say they were overpriced? Is that your area of collecting? Do you have something to compare it to? >>
I think you just made the point everyone was making about the toned dollar that was in question in your last two paragraphs.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
That there is one TTT per day, period, whether an OP does it or someone else does? Do everything by PM, and let an OP bump his own listing. Many folks are friendly and give a supportive bump to a cool listing; in those cases, an OP usually respects that he or she got their bump for the day, and waits until the next day to bump it himself or herself. Mostly, around here we've agreed to the one "ttt, period" because we value the venue. It's not censorship, it's consensus. The BST here has been successful for a long time because of this simple rule.
<< <i>I was one of those fan boys that bought geckos little gram bars. I decided to sell them and got much less than I paid for them! I wish I listened to some of the PM experts..... >>
Where did you sell them? Both Cars and I actually got MORE than $1/gram for the ones we sold in eBay auctions! You didnt take them to your local B&M, did you?
<< <i>I miss sportsmoderator
I missed it. What happened?
Bye SportsModerator.....I miss you even more now. RIP
<< <i>Bye SportsModerator.....I miss you even more now. RIP >>