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New "hand poured" silver bar to make debut!

gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
in Precious Metals
You will have photos in less than 45 minutes of my newest production. Stay tuned!!!


P.S.- The kiln warms as I type.image
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    carscars Posts: 1,904
    uhoh
    Its all relative
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kilt?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tick tock tick tock tick tock
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    mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    can't wait to see the pics! I wonder what the price will be as well.
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>kilt? >>



    Such a kidder is Tom!


    Here is a prototype.....literally poured 15 minutes ago, and stamped 10 minutes ago. The numbers/letters will be better aligned on production bars, and instead of a serial number on the back as before, there will be a "1 of 20", "2 of 20", "3 of 20", etc. That will be placed near the top of the bar centered between the logos. Feedback appreciated.image

    image
    image
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    carscars Posts: 1,904
    I like the double logo and the horizontal bar as well as the new serial system. I guess you would say I like it.
    Its all relative
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I dig it man, big time.

    When are you going to film the smelting, pouring & stamping of one of these bars for us to watch on YouTube????
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks good.

    Just as a friendly suggestion, be a little more careful in the placment of the 2.5, keeping the numbers closer and the decimal point lower, and consider using a second place after the decimal, such as "2.50"

    Most of the odd weight bars that we see that have decimal numbers use two places.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>I dig it man, big time.

    When are you going to film the smelting, pouring & stamping of one of these bars for us to watch on YouTube???? >>



    Do ya really wanna see all that boring stuff?image I'll have to convince my wife to film it sometime....I cant handle a camera AND 1700 degree molten silver at the same time....at least not safely!
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    mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    very nice! looks better than the first ones you made.

    Whats the pricing like? $30+ an oz or ???
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>very nice! looks better than the first ones you made.

    Whats the pricing like? $30+ an oz or ??? >>




    Not quite that high. However, my material cost has gone up alot since I bought my last batch of silver. Im still working on a fair price, but it will be alot less than $30/oz!
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    notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    Is there any requirement to have assay records to back up the .999 fine claim?
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>Is there any requirement to have assay records to back up the .999 fine claim? >>




    You tell me. Im not a lawyer, and I dont know specific laws on something like this.
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    WegWeg Posts: 544
    That's cool, and I'll bet there's some satisfaction making those.
    One question with the numbering, what type of change will there be after 20 of 20?
    Remember, I'm pullen for ya; we're all in this together.---Red Green---
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do ya really wanna see all that boring stuff? >>

    Um, yeah! From start to finish man. I want to see silver beads turn into a stamped silver bar. image
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    adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    You've got the space for more numbers on these bars, and I agree that a more accurate weight is in order.

    A neat trick would be to pour one such that there is a hole in the bar. Instead of drilling a hole, perhaps a special form?

    Then it would make an interesting key chain fob.

    Put the videocamera on a tripod or enlist your wife as a videographer! We want to see a pour!

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    carscars Posts: 1,904


    << <i>Is there any requirement to have assay records to back up the .999 fine claim? >>



    Ask the 10 or so people on eBay who do this.
    Its all relative
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>That's cool, and I'll bet there's some satisfaction making those.
    One question with the numbering, what type of change will there be after 20 of 20? >>




    Great question! This particular size/shape combo will be limited to just 20 pieces total. If it is as successful as the 13-18 gram bar run I did 2 months ago, new sizes will become available to buy. I sold 88 of 94 of those smaller bars by the way. They were VERY popular among the forumites.
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Do ya really wanna see all that boring stuff? >>

    Um, yeah! From start to finish man. I want to see silver beads turn into a stamped silver bar. image >>




    Ok....i'll get the wife to film the boring process just for you.image Gimmie a week or so before I get my latest APMEX shipment in at least, ok?
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    carscars Posts: 1,904
    Any plans to break into the gold market? May have a hard time selling something like that from an "unknown" source I guess.
    Its all relative
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    mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd trust Gecko more than the ebayers selling their own handpoured bars.

    btw there seems to be quite a bit of questionable "old" pour bars on ebay that seem to be newly poured but are being sold as old poured. Just a theory that I've shared with Cars.
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>Any plans to break into the gold market? May have a hard time selling something like that from an "unknown" source I guess. >>




    I'll pour any sized gold bar that you want.....all you need to do is provide the metal, return shipping charges, and a $15 surcharge for my labor/equipment. And yes, im serious.image


    P.S.- The only condition is that the gold must be .999 fine. Im not a refiner, and I just cringe at the thought of trying to melt .9167 gold and watching the copper settle out in the melt!
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>I'd trust Gecko more than the ebayers selling their own handpoured bars.

    btw there seems to be quite a bit of questionable "old" pour bars on ebay that seem to be newly poured but are being sold as old poured. Just a theory that I've shared with Cars. >>




    Thanks man! That means alot to me.
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    mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    I've got some gold pandas I'd like melted. They are key dates in MS70 imageimageimage
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    carscars Posts: 1,904
    Better watch saying stuff like that lol.
    Its all relative
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    carscars Posts: 1,904
    How about lead, copper or tin? There appears to be a market for those on ebay. You could make a killing. I'm game for a copper gram sized bar :-)
    Its all relative
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>How about lead, copper or tin? There appears to be a market for those on ebay. You could make a killing. I'm game for a copper gram sized bar :-) >>




    Funny you mention copper.....I have literally 25 pounds of .999 copper shavings in my basement right now. Ever seen a "poured" copper bar on ebay, or anywhere else before? Theres a reason for that!image
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    carscars Posts: 1,904
    Didn't think about that, Would be nice tho.
    Its all relative
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    adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    I got some tungsten i'd like to see you try and melt.

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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    I tried it...and failed miserably! The 2 main problems are shrinkage and oxidation. The bar actually falls like a souflle in its center as it cools, creating an ugly "dimple" in the face of the bar. Also, the copper oxidizes immediately to a dark, burnt brown "poopy-like" color as it cools. I think I can solve the oxidizing part, but im afraid theres no cure for shrinkage! Hence every copper "bullion" bar you see on ebay is either simply cut barstock, or machined somehow and not poured.
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>I got some tungsten i'd like to see you try and melt. >>




    I saw that post Adam! Very cool metal, yet im sure my crucible, along with the kiln, the house, and the concrete foundation would melt long before the wolfram does!image
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    notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Is there any requirement to have assay records to back up the .999 fine claim? >>




    You tell me. Im not a lawyer, and I dont know specific laws on something like this. >>



    I have no idea but I'd probably start looking into it if I were gonna sell them...don't want the feds showing up looking for the records and you looking like a deer in the headlights....but I don't even know what bureau of the feds regulates this....
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Is there any requirement to have assay records to back up the .999 fine claim? >>




    You tell me. Im not a lawyer, and I dont know specific laws on something like this. >>



    I have no idea but I'd probably start looking into it if I were gonna sell them...don't want the feds showing up looking for the records and you looking like a deer in the headlights....but I don't even know what bureau of the feds regulates this.... >>




    While your point is well understood, its almost laughable that any FED agency could screw with me due to "assays". I mean, look what the fed puts out, and its not even remotely close to its actual value!image

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    notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>very nice! looks better than the first ones you made.

    Whats the pricing like? $30+ an oz or ??? >>




    Not quite that high. However, my material cost has gone up alot since I bought my last batch of silver. Im still working on a fair price, but it will be alot less than $30/oz! >>



    Have you figured in the energy costs of running the kiln? Perhaps you're losing money...
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Im not making a whole lot Jerry, thats for sure. But I have a regular, well paying job. I do stuff like this for fun, and do not keep track of profit margins nor operating expenses. You are a businessman, im simply a hobbyist, and I can appreciate both.image
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    adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    It's not really for profit as much as...

    "There's love in these bars"



    Copper, with about a 5% solidification shrinkage, would be difficult to pour in a bar form I imagine. But toss a hot, freshly poured bar into a barrel of rice hulls and let it smoulder and consume all of the oxygen. That should get it good and bright. I mention rice hulls because that is how I got a bright copper glaze on pottery once; without that reducing atmosphere, it would have been green.

    You can alloy the copper with various stuff to improve the solidification characteristics. But then it is not pure copper anymore.

    I think those copper ingots on eBay are somewhat bizarre. But then, I collect other bizarre metals, so who am I to judge?


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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Adam...there is a borax flux available that you mix in with the molten copper to rid it of the oxidation as well, from what I have read. I still cant get past the shrinkage issues though!
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    carscars Posts: 1,904


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>very nice! looks better than the first ones you made.

    Whats the pricing like? $30+ an oz or ??? >>




    Not quite that high. However, my material cost has gone up alot since I bought my last batch of silver. Im still working on a fair price, but it will be alot less than $30/oz! >>



    Have you figured in the energy costs of running the kiln? Perhaps you're losing money... >>



    Why do you have to get all technical and talk about assay certs & dollar & cents. Its clearly a hobby and nothing more. Come on, He's Making 20 bars! I'm sure the receipt stapled to the package of .999 fine silver shot used to make these bars would be sufficient evidence of purity to any who may inquire. Why don't you kick him in the n#@^ and tell him he sucks?
    Its all relative
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Is there any requirement to have assay records to back up the .999 fine claim? >>




    You tell me. Im not a lawyer, and I dont know specific laws on something like this. >>



    I have no idea but I'd probably start looking into it if I were gonna sell them...don't want the feds showing up looking for the records and you looking like a deer in the headlights....but I don't even know what bureau of the feds regulates this.... >>




    While your point is well understood, its almost laughable that any FED agency could screw with me due to "assays". I mean, look what the fed puts out, and its not even remotely close to its actual value!image >>



    Just save your receipts for the .999 shot you bought, and keep some sort of records for the total ounces purchased and the total ounces poured.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    percybpercyb Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭
    Where did you get the silver? Did you buy large bars and are making them now into smaller bars?
    "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
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    notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Is there any requirement to have assay records to back up the .999 fine claim? >>




    You tell me. Im not a lawyer, and I dont know specific laws on something like this. >>



    I have no idea but I'd probably start looking into it if I were gonna sell them...don't want the feds showing up looking for the records and you looking like a deer in the headlights....but I don't even know what bureau of the feds regulates this.... >>




    While your point is well understood, its almost laughable that any FED agency could screw with me due to "assays". I mean, look what the fed puts out, and its not even remotely close to its actual value!image >>



    Just save your receipts for the .999 shot you bought, and keep some sort of records for the total ounces purchased and the total ounces poured.
    TD >>



    That makes sense. To elaborate on my point: The non-collector intent of federal bullion coinage is to eliminate the need for assay whenever a PM trades hands. In the wild west they bit the gold with calibrated teeth but there was a lot of cheating. So Trade dollars were the first real bullion coin made for trade because trade in asia required some sort of guaranteed silver content. They still counterstamped it. Modern bullion coins sell for spot plus just a few dollars (I'm not talking the W-mint collector coins) and that avoids a lot of assay fees. So having grown up watching grain and feed sold on scales that were marked "legal for sale or trade" and weighing fish on scales marked "Not legal for sale or trade" I just figured there must be lots of laws you have to follow to sell ingots of PMs....not that I'm personally worried about it at all. --Jerry
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    carscars Posts: 1,904
    I don't think Gecko will mind me answering this, He purchased 50 oz bags of .999 silver shot from Apmex.
    Its all relative
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    SUMORADASUMORADA Posts: 4,797 ✭
    I think the new bars look great, image

    I'm thinking of making some myself, as to the stamping of the fineness of the bars I believe it has to be accompanied by a
    Registered Trademark to be legal.

    Are you melting the metal in a graphite mold in the kiln or pouring molten metal into an iron or graphite mold ?
    coins on ebay
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>I think the new bars look great, image

    I'm thinking of making some myself, as to the stamping of the fineness of the bars I believe it has to be accompanied by a
    Registered Trademark to be legal.

    Are you melting the metal in a graphite mold in the kiln or pouring molten metal into an iron or graphite mold ? >>




    Thanks for the compliment. Im not sure what laws govern this type of activity, but I can tell you I dont own a foundry, and im making/selling such a TINY quantity of these bars that it must fall under some sort of "hobby act". If my intent was to make this my full time deal, and sell tens of thousands, I'd look much deeper into the laws regarding this. The fact is however that im selling 20 of these things, and at a VERY reasonable price. Anywho, my process involves melting the silver in a graphite crucible, and then pouring it into a graphite mold. I suppose you could do it the other way, and just load up a mold and pop it in the kiln, but then you have to deal with a red hot mold for 10-15 minutes. With my process, pouring is much more efficient, and probably a bit safer as well. I'll make a video of a pour soon.
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    robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kool... Thanks for sharing.
    I may have to get one of those bars.
    Ebay items for sale Current BIN's / The Kingdom Collection
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I've got some gold pandas I'd like melted. They are key dates in MS70 >>

    imageimageimageimageimage

    Geck, if the Feds come down on you just link them to this thread. image

    Too bad you're only making 20 of them. I'd be in for one if they went up to 32!
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    cohocorpcohocorp Posts: 1,371 ✭✭
    i like em. thanks for entering me in your generous giveaway.image
    my ebay listings
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    gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I've got some gold pandas I'd like melted. They are key dates in MS70 >>

    imageimageimageimageimage

    Geck, if the Feds come down on you just link them to this thread. image

    Too bad you're only making 20 of them. I'd be in for one if they went up to 32! >>




    Sorry about the 20 piece limit. I'll try to be sure my next run of whatever shape/size hits at least 32 pieces!
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    notlogicalnotlogical Posts: 2,235 ✭
    Very, very image




    << <i>I still cant get past the shrinkage issues though! >>



    I feel the same way about swimming. image
    What Mr. Spock would say about numismatics...
    image... "Fascinating, but not logical"

    "Live long and prosper"

    My "How I Started" columns
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    MPLunaticMPLunatic Posts: 617 ✭✭
    Very cool bar, already got my order in. I don't know how dificult this would be but I think it would be cool if you could some how stamp the date each one was poured on the bar.
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