This is all too funny. MLB assured the players that the tests taken in 2003 were to be given with complete anonymity, yet here we are with sources leaking the results of 1 out of 104 players that tested positive. That's ONE out of 104... Hmmmmm, imagine that... ONE player getting outted out of 104!!! Ulterior motives? Front page flash? The press is almost as guilty as the rest of them.
If you all want to condemn ARod, that’s fine and dandy, but the true issue is that these players, regardless of whether they were juicing or not, were assured that the results would be confidential and were for statistical analysis by the league.
The MLBPA and MLB have broken the confidence of the players by allowing access to these results.
If I were an employee and were assured anonymity with regard to something and then had it come back and bite me in the azz, then I would certainly have an issue with it.
Take your pot shots at Alex or Albert or Bonds or Clemens, but keep in mind that there were plenty more juicing during this era and while they all want to deny it, the playing field was probably a lot more even than most want to believe. Since the hitters were juicing and the pitchers were juicing, what was the difference?
Next thing you know, we’ll find out that managers were taking drugs to stay more alert and to aid their managerial decisions…
<< <i>Scott the difference is records were broken that might not have been broken.
Another difference is the paying public got duped. They expected a clean game.
I agree with you if I was Aroid I'd be suing someone.
One other comment, I find it funny that he is a 'dopey'
Steve >>
Steve:
Let's not forget the illegal stuff many other athletes took decades ago. Every era has their drug of choice. I'm not saying that makes it right, but the playing field seems to be equal, just the end results are different.
Records are meant to be broken and many would've been with or without the steroids. That's a given and history demonstrates that.
<< <i>"The MLBPA and MLB have broken the confidence of the players by allowing access to these results."
"Since the hitters were juicing and the pitchers were juicing, what was the difference?"
////////////////////////
Likely valid arguments.
But, since the "game" has decided it's cheating, the users are still bad guys. >>
Hey, if players are now using substances that are banned, throw them out. But if they were using substances which were not banned at the time they used them, they may have been "cheating," but they weren't breaking the rules...
Baseball is to blame for allowing it to happen and turning a blind eye to it as it recovered from the strike. McGwire and Sosa brought baseball back from the abyss. Steroids made that possible. Owners made out like bandits and players like Caminiti are now dead. Who paid the ultimate price? The fans? The owners? Go ask Caminiti...
Are players using an ADD diagnosis to evade the amphetamine ban?
Charles Euchner
Newsweek Web Exclusive
As Major League Baseball begins to dig out from its steroids scandal, new kinds of performance-enhancing substances are sweeping big-league clubhouses: Ritalin, Adderall and other drugs designed to help with Attention-Deficit Disorder. According to records MLB officials turned over to congressional investigators as part of George Mitchell's probe into steroid use in baseball, the number of players getting "therapeutic use exemptions" from baseball's amphetamines ban jumped in one year from 28 to 103—which means that, suddenly, 7.6 percent of the 1,354 players on major-league rosters had been diagnosed with ADD.
One possible reason for this increase: in 2005 baseball banned the use of "greenies," amphetamines that help players remained focused and energetic through the rigors of a 162-game season. Amphetamines were once as common as deli spreads in big-league clubhouses—in some, greenies were used to spike the coffee. Players are now seeking doctors' prescriptions for ADD medications, usually Ritalin and Adderall, apparently to replace the now-illegal energy boosting drugs. (Ritalin is the trade name for the drug methylphenidate, and Adderall is an amphetamine-dextroamphetamine; they are both considered stimulants.)
Certainly, some of the players getting prescriptions for ADD medications may have a legitimate medical need, says David Goodman, a Johns Hopkins University doctor who has been invited to help Major League baseball develop a new strategy for amphetamines. But he calls the ADD drug spike "troubling," since it inevitably raises suspicion that players have simply found a way to evade the amphetamine ban. No cases of abuse have been reported. Determining which cases might be bogus would require a thorough study of both the prescribing doctors and the thoroughness of their examination process. Baseball commissioner Bud Selig says the league is investigating the ADD diagnoses to determine which ones are legitimate medical problems and which ones might be attempts to evade the amphetamines ban.
Separating the legitimate users from the abusers won't be easy. Estimates of ADD vary widely, from as little as 4 percent among adults to as much as 16 percent among adolescents and young adults. A diagnostician needs to assess a variety of behaviors—some of which may seem like ADD but in fact be other conditions. (The medical establishment often uses the term ADHD—attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder—interchangeably with ADD). A diagnosis of ADD requires not only evaluating an adult's behavior and mental state but also looking into the individual's childhood and family background. ADD is a genetic condition that makes its first appearance early in life. The symptoms of other conditions—bipolar disease, anxiety disorder, depression, developmental or learning differences—can make ADD diagnoses tricky and subjective.
Complicating the issue is that sports can both strengthen and undermine a person's mental well-being. The intense physical activity fosters a level of focus and commitment that helps the athlete improve the functioning of the brain. In fact, athletic competition can be the best cure for ADD, says Dr. John J. Ratey, an associate professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and the author of "Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain." Ratey has treated athletes who suddenly displayed the symptoms of ADD after injuries sidelined them. He prescribed medications during the down time, then weaned the athlete once he got back into action.
On the other hand, the lifestyle of professional athletes—constant travel, bad food, abuse of alcohol and drugs, irregular sleep patterns—can scramble the brain, undoing all the good effects of the exercise. Improper drug use often masks real needs. "People with ADD often look for a way to self-medicate and they're more susceptible to using [illegal drugs] that promise to sustain their effort," says Dr. Sanford J. Silverman of the Center for Attention Deficit and Learning Disorders in Scottsdale, Ariz. New therapies go far beyond exercise. Silverman uses neurofeedback to improve brain functioning. Patients wear a helmet that tracks brain activity. Visualizing and physical exercises help to stimulate the underactive parts and tamp down the overactive parts. ADD requires customized treatments, Goodman notes. "The effect of exercise is variable from athlete to athlete," he says. "Some do better with medications and some do better with exercise."
With the steroids scandal still rippling through baseball, MLB is under particular pressure not to allow a new drug controversy to develop. Management faces a twin challenge: preventing the use of drugs that give some players unfair advantages by souping up their bodies like race cars while not denying medication and other assistance to an athlete suffering from a legitimate malady. Ultimately, experts say, the best way to identify both legitimate medical conditions and illicit drug use is to devise top-to-bottom systems that track a player's progress on a number of dimensions. To know a player is to know when he might be heading off course.
Euchner, a lecturer in English at Yale University, is completing a book about suicide at the Golden Gate Bridge.
IMO its 1)players union 1) the players 3)owners and 4)MLB in that order who are at fault. Players union told some players when some of these "random" tests were going to happen.
Players Union also has a lot of money at stake when a player performs well. When a player makes a lot of money, so does the union.
Also, the owners who did try to implement strict enough rules on the players cuz they want butts in the seats. But can you blame them when salaries keep going higher and higher? Sure, blame the Yankees
Its only common sense that the players have fault. They had the choice but if I were in that same situation, I very well may have done the same thing if it meant money and my job when competing against others who were using and out performing me.
MLB should have been doing more to try to implement something and create better relations with the union to get this done. They knew it was a problem and continued to ignore. But in the very end, MLB is handcuffed by all the rest.
I wonder what this will do to the power of the union. They have been very powerful representing the players. I dont know what it would take if MLB tried to push them out. Im sure it would have to be voted on by the players so I guess that will never happen.
Hey, if players are now using substances that are banned, throw them out. But if they were using substances which were not banned at the time they used them, they may have been "cheating," but they weren't breaking the rules...
Baseball is to blame for allowing it to happen and turning a blind eye to it as it recovered from the strike. McGwire and Sosa brought baseball back from the abyss. Steroids made that possible. Owners made out like bandits and players like Caminiti are now dead. Who paid the ultimate price? The fans? The owners? Go ask Caminiti...
/////////////////////////////////////
ALL valid stuff.
But, I suspect/fear that baseball is really the entity that will/may pay "the ultimate price."
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>Hey, if players are now using substances that are banned, throw them out. But if they were using substances which were not banned at the time they used them, they may have been "cheating," but they weren't breaking the rules...
Baseball is to blame for allowing it to happen and turning a blind eye to it as it recovered from the strike. McGwire and Sosa brought baseball back from the abyss. Steroids made that possible. Owners made out like bandits and players like Caminiti are now dead. Who paid the ultimate price? The fans? The owners? Go ask Caminiti...
/////////////////////////////////////
ALL valid stuff.
But, I suspect/fear that baseball is really the entity that will/may pay "the ultimate price." >>
I doubt it. All the stastical evidence indicates that there's zero causal effect between labor unrest (i.e., strikes) and fan attendence at MLB games, and I imagine this will blow over as well.
The one thing that people enjoy about sports is the fact that it's just about the only entertainment option available where you don't have to participate, and the outcome is uncertain. THAT'S the hook that keeps people coming back. The only thing that will screw up sports is if they're found to be fixed; the rest is just surface noise.
You could probably ask 1000 Yankee season ticket holders if they would give up their tickets if it was discovered that Rivera, Posada and Jeter we're all juiced as well, and less than 50 would probably say yes.
"just when you get to liking someone they either get butchered or raped"--Josey Wales...
I can't wait to see the other 103 names and hopefully Piazza is on it as well. I've always suspected him of being juiced and it's about time his fraudulent personna is taken down a notch or two...
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
I know I was editing current listings while I was posting more cards on eBay.
Some I can't change because they have a few bids already BUT I did add a message at the bottom on some listings indicating the correct insurance price.
I just wish baseball get their heads out of there *cough* and do mandatory drug tests on EVERYONE. If the players don't like it, TOUGH, than don't play, there are millions of other deserving players that would die at the chance to go pro, and than the American people would actually have a sport where the players are honest, reputable players. Not these money monger, big headed, steroid using nut jobs. Bud Selig needs to do something about this, otherwise, he is going to ruin the sport even more than it already is.
I worked with a former major league pitcher who got into banking after his career ended. He told me about McGwire, Clemens, Arod and Pujols and many others took steroids as he had been teammates with two of them. It is an unwritten code they would never tell the media. I got all this over lunch
Pujols is the next one to go down. Seriously just look at his build and then look at Luis Pujols' build. People just don't want to believe it. People didn't want to believe it about Arod. I really feel sorry for "player" collectors who invest large sums of money on one guy and then see it crash when the steroids are exposed.
I have to wonder how this will affect card values of other current big name players.
<< <i>Do I understand this right, that SI actually has the names of the other 103 players in their possession as we speak? >>
//////////////////////////////
Here, they seem to deny having a physical list. It is not reasonable to think they are doing anything other than deflecting prospective attempts to force them to surrender the list.
".........The list of the 104 players whose urine samples tested positive is under seal in California. However, two sources familiar with the evidence that the government has gathered in its investigation of steroid use in baseball and two other sources with knowledge of the testing results have told Sports Illustrated that Rodriguez is one of the 104 players identified as having tested positive, in his case for testosterone and an anabolic steroid known by the brand name Primobolan. All four sources spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the evidence...."
ANY reporter who talked to the "sources" would demand a looksee. SI editors would NEVER go with the current story unless they at least KNEW the "sources" had the list in hand. The way you "know" if a source ACTUALLY has such a list is to eyeball it.
The logical question from the reporter/editors to the sources would be, "Who else is on the list?" To think that was not answered, at least in part, defies credulity.
........
From a legal standpoint, SI may be forced to continue to hide behind "sources." However, the list itself is VERY likely the "source."
The smart/safe legal play is always to tort the BIG guy first. If he is unable to quash the reporting, the little guys won't even try.
.........
Additionally, if SI got the list from a low-level court employee, the story about multiple "sources" shields their actual source. A source that could well have accepted some compensation from SI. Such payments are NOT illegal on the part of SI, but acceptance of such payments would likely be actionable; in fact, the mere possession by such a court worker of the docs could be a crime.
SI - any publication - in general, can buy/use "sealed" docs provided they had NO role in purloining the docs. They cannot steal them and they cannot ask anyone else to do so. But, they can buy/use them.
............
Fun that the "list" pops in California at the same time a great former NY manager is on a book tour, and living part-time in CA.
spelling edit
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
i havent been following the steroid scandel too closely. was whatever arod allegedly took illegal at the time he allegedly took it? anyway, what an interesting few months, the president of the usa admitted to taking marijuana and cocaine and now this. so to put things in perspective, arod will be perceived as a wretched person while the president is looked up to. that makes alot of sense. just my .02
Today's revelations did nothing but to damage the image of one baseball player. Nothing more, nothing less. Need proof? I can virtually guarantee that come Opening Day, the stands at ball parks across the U.S. will be filled with people. In 2008, 78,591,116 people attended MLB games. It was 79,503,175 in 2007. Do we have any reason to believe this figure will change significantly in 2009? Sure people will boo AROD. But he'll be booed by people who paid a dollar to enter the park to boo him. If I know this, I'm sure MLB knows this. And in many ways, this is, ultimately, the bottom line. Given that, why would MLB even care about AROD?
/s/ JackWESQ
P.S. There are Yankees fans on this board. Are you going to stop rooting/watching them? I suspect not. But if so, I commend you.
I think ARod should just come clean and tell them that he tried it a couple of times and be done with it . Trying to prove innocence does nothing but cause more problems...ala...Bonds and Clemens
A collector of all things Braves Always looking for Chipper Jones cards. Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
"...Given that, why would MLB even care about AROD?..."
//////////////////////////////////
I am not worried about attendance for the next 10-years; maybe even 20-years.
If my theory about when baseball fans are created is true, TODAY's parents can have a great influence on what attendance will look like 30/40 years out.
Some parents, arguably the less "sophisticated" ones, do NOT like anything to do with DRUGS. If those folks steer their kids towards other sports/games, the showup numbers in 2035 and beyond may well turn to caca.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
I have said it before a player I think that was on steriods and I would like to beleive he wasn't was Bagwell. I watch him play for many years on TV but then he started to bulk up and the noticeable vanes on his forehead make me wonder.
James >>
bagwell without a doubt is a juicer for one he went from 160lbs. soaking wet to 220lbs in one offseason onto to his mvp season, add that with his shoulder issues
<< <i> P.S. There are Yankees fans on this board. Are you going to stop rooting/watching them? I suspect not. But if so, I commend you. >>
Bump!
I have not posted in some time. Yet some things never change.
Like JackWESQ being a total idiot as usual. You have to be dumber then a bump on a log to throw out a commendation to Yankee fans who stop watching and rooting because we have A-cheat on our team.
I am one Yankee fan who will NEVER stop watching and rooting because I LOVE THE GAME. It is in my blood. Screw the home run record. Screw any more individual records. I don't care. What I do care about is watching a ball game at 7:30 on a Wednesday night when I get home and rooting for my team. That will NEVER change. A-Rod deserves whatever is coming to him.
What makes me laugh are soap box preachers like JackWESQ who are dumb enough it expect baseball fans to stop cheering for the TEAM.
Also, the shear STUPIDITY of WESQ is really asking ALL OF US to stop rooting. Does this dim wad not realize that in this era of roids there is NO TEAM exempt?
Lets see who the other 103 players on that list are.
News flash for guys like WESQ. Its a 25 man roster you idiot. That list has 103 names on it. Were you taught math in kindergarten?
Comments
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Retirement is not stressful.
Only one thing to say.....Stan.....Shut Up.....i have actually grown tired of you thinking everyone is out to attack you personally
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
<< <i>A-Roid, huh? Great. So, who's NOT on steroids? >>
Juan Pierre.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
If you all want to condemn ARod, that’s fine and dandy, but the true issue is that these players, regardless of whether they were juicing or not, were assured that the results would be confidential and were for statistical analysis by the league.
The MLBPA and MLB have broken the confidence of the players by allowing access to these results.
If I were an employee and were assured anonymity with regard to something and then had it come back and bite me in the azz, then I would certainly have an issue with it.
Take your pot shots at Alex or Albert or Bonds or Clemens, but keep in mind that there were plenty more juicing during this era and while they all want to deny it, the playing field was probably a lot more even than most want to believe. Since the hitters were juicing and the pitchers were juicing, what was the difference?
Next thing you know, we’ll find out that managers were taking drugs to stay more alert and to aid their managerial decisions…
Another difference is the paying public got duped. They expected a clean game.
I agree with you if I was Aroid I'd be suing someone.
One other comment, I find it funny that he is a 'dopey'
Steve
I think you have to be signed-in to see this one:
The Tanking Begins
Refresh the page for most recent endings.
Not true , the buying public wanted to see bombs being launched , not a pitchers dual. As long as their team won , im sure
they didnt care
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
<< <i>Scott the difference is records were broken that might not have been broken.
Another difference is the paying public got duped. They expected a clean game.
I agree with you if I was Aroid I'd be suing someone.
One other comment, I find it funny that he is a 'dopey'
Steve >>
Steve:
Let's not forget the illegal stuff many other athletes took decades ago. Every era has their drug of choice. I'm not saying that makes it right, but the playing field seems to be equal, just the end results are different.
Records are meant to be broken and many would've been with or without the steroids. That's a given and history demonstrates that.
<< <i>Completed Listings......... >>
WOW, PSA 9 SP closing for $199.00
"Since the hitters were juicing and the pitchers were juicing, what was the difference?"
////////////////////////
Likely valid arguments.
But, since the "game" has decided it's cheating, the users are still
bad guys.
<< <i>"The MLBPA and MLB have broken the confidence of the players by allowing access to these results."
"Since the hitters were juicing and the pitchers were juicing, what was the difference?"
////////////////////////
Likely valid arguments.
But, since the "game" has decided it's cheating, the users are still
bad guys. >>
Hey, if players are now using substances that are banned, throw them out. But if they were using substances which were not banned at the time they used them, they may have been "cheating," but they weren't breaking the rules...
Baseball is to blame for allowing it to happen and turning a blind eye to it as it recovered from the strike. McGwire and Sosa brought baseball back from the abyss. Steroids made that possible. Owners made out like bandits and players like Caminiti are now dead. Who paid the ultimate price? The fans? The owners? Go ask Caminiti...
<< <i>I'm sorry, Big Frank has been advocating drug testing in the MLB since 1992 when he saw it becoming as issue...he's been clean. >>
I agree!
Corrupt "doctors" and speed-freaks are made for each other.
//////////////////////////////////////////////
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Baseball's Other Drug Problem
Are players using an ADD diagnosis to evade the amphetamine ban?
Charles Euchner
Newsweek Web Exclusive
As Major League Baseball begins to dig out from its steroids scandal, new kinds of performance-enhancing substances are sweeping big-league clubhouses: Ritalin, Adderall and other drugs designed to help with Attention-Deficit Disorder. According to records MLB officials turned over to congressional investigators as part of George Mitchell's probe into steroid use in baseball, the number of players getting "therapeutic use exemptions" from baseball's amphetamines ban jumped in one year from 28 to 103—which means that, suddenly, 7.6 percent of the 1,354 players on major-league rosters had been diagnosed with ADD.
One possible reason for this increase: in 2005 baseball banned the use of "greenies," amphetamines that help players remained focused and energetic through the rigors of a 162-game season. Amphetamines were once as common as deli spreads in big-league clubhouses—in some, greenies were used to spike the coffee. Players are now seeking doctors' prescriptions for ADD medications, usually Ritalin and Adderall, apparently to replace the now-illegal energy boosting drugs. (Ritalin is the trade name for the drug methylphenidate, and Adderall is an amphetamine-dextroamphetamine; they are both considered stimulants.)
Certainly, some of the players getting prescriptions for ADD medications may have a legitimate medical need, says David Goodman, a Johns Hopkins University doctor who has been invited to help Major League baseball develop a new strategy for amphetamines. But he calls the ADD drug spike "troubling," since it inevitably raises suspicion that players have simply found a way to evade the amphetamine ban. No cases of abuse have been reported. Determining which cases might be bogus would require a thorough study of both the prescribing doctors and the thoroughness of their examination process. Baseball commissioner Bud Selig says the league is investigating the ADD diagnoses to determine which ones are legitimate medical problems and which ones might be attempts to evade the amphetamines ban.
Separating the legitimate users from the abusers won't be easy. Estimates of ADD vary widely, from as little as 4 percent among adults to as much as 16 percent among adolescents and young adults. A diagnostician needs to assess a variety of behaviors—some of which may seem like ADD but in fact be other conditions. (The medical establishment often uses the term ADHD—attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder—interchangeably with ADD). A diagnosis of ADD requires not only evaluating an adult's behavior and mental state but also looking into the individual's childhood and family background. ADD is a genetic condition that makes its first appearance early in life. The symptoms of other conditions—bipolar disease, anxiety disorder, depression, developmental or learning differences—can make ADD diagnoses tricky and subjective.
Complicating the issue is that sports can both strengthen and undermine a person's mental well-being. The intense physical activity fosters a level of focus and commitment that helps the athlete improve the functioning of the brain. In fact, athletic competition can be the best cure for ADD, says Dr. John J. Ratey, an associate professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and the author of "Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain." Ratey has treated athletes who suddenly displayed the symptoms of ADD after injuries sidelined them. He prescribed medications during the down time, then weaned the athlete once he got back into action.
On the other hand, the lifestyle of professional athletes—constant travel, bad food, abuse of alcohol and drugs, irregular sleep patterns—can scramble the brain, undoing all the good effects of the exercise. Improper drug use often masks real needs. "People with ADD often look for a way to self-medicate and they're more susceptible to using [illegal drugs] that promise to sustain their effort," says Dr. Sanford J. Silverman of the Center for Attention Deficit and Learning Disorders in Scottsdale, Ariz. New therapies go far beyond exercise. Silverman uses neurofeedback to improve brain functioning. Patients wear a helmet that tracks brain activity. Visualizing and physical exercises help to stimulate the underactive parts and tamp down the overactive parts. ADD requires customized treatments, Goodman notes. "The effect of exercise is variable from athlete to athlete," he says. "Some do better with medications and some do better with exercise."
With the steroids scandal still rippling through baseball, MLB is under particular pressure not to allow a new drug controversy to develop. Management faces a twin challenge: preventing the use of drugs that give some players unfair advantages by souping up their bodies like race cars while not denying medication and other assistance to an athlete suffering from a legitimate malady. Ultimately, experts say, the best way to identify both legitimate medical conditions and illicit drug use is to devise top-to-bottom systems that track a player's progress on a number of dimensions. To know a player is to know when he might be heading off course.
Euchner, a lecturer in English at Yale University, is completing a book about suicide at the Golden Gate Bridge.
URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/108730
Players Union also has a lot of money at stake when a player performs well. When a player makes a lot of money, so does the union.
Also, the owners who did try to implement strict enough rules on the players cuz they want butts in the seats. But can you blame them when salaries keep going higher and higher? Sure, blame the Yankees
Its only common sense that the players have fault. They had the choice but if I were in that same situation, I very well may have done the same thing if it meant money and my job when competing against others who were using and out performing me.
MLB should have been doing more to try to implement something and create better relations with the union to get this done. They knew it was a problem and continued to ignore. But in the very end, MLB is handcuffed by all the rest.
I wonder what this will do to the power of the union. They have been very powerful representing the players. I dont know what it would take if MLB tried to push them out. Im sure it would have to be voted on by the players so I guess that will never happen.
Baseball is to blame for allowing it to happen and turning a blind eye to it as it recovered from the strike. McGwire and Sosa brought baseball back from the abyss. Steroids made that possible. Owners made out like bandits and players like Caminiti are now dead. Who paid the ultimate price? The fans? The owners? Go ask Caminiti...
/////////////////////////////////////
ALL valid stuff.
But, I suspect/fear that baseball is really the entity that
will/may pay "the ultimate price."
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<< <i>Hey, if players are now using substances that are banned, throw them out. But if they were using substances which were not banned at the time they used them, they may have been "cheating," but they weren't breaking the rules...
Baseball is to blame for allowing it to happen and turning a blind eye to it as it recovered from the strike. McGwire and Sosa brought baseball back from the abyss. Steroids made that possible. Owners made out like bandits and players like Caminiti are now dead. Who paid the ultimate price? The fans? The owners? Go ask Caminiti...
/////////////////////////////////////
ALL valid stuff.
But, I suspect/fear that baseball is really the entity that
will/may pay "the ultimate price." >>
I doubt it. All the stastical evidence indicates that there's zero causal effect between labor unrest (i.e., strikes) and fan attendence at MLB games, and I imagine this will blow over as well.
The one thing that people enjoy about sports is the fact that it's just about the only entertainment option available where you don't have to participate, and the outcome is uncertain. THAT'S the hook that keeps people coming back. The only thing that will screw up sports is if they're found to be fixed; the rest is just surface noise.
You could probably ask 1000 Yankee season ticket holders if they would give up their tickets if it was discovered that Rivera, Posada and Jeter we're all juiced as well, and less than 50 would probably say yes.
<< <i>so do we have to buy Jose's book to find out who the other 103 players are? >>
/////////////////////
SI currently likely has the list.
As soon as they figure out the way to best monetize it,
we will see it.
Today's leak was just a bit of test marketing.
........................................
EDITED TO ADD THE Word 'Likely."
I can't wait to see the other 103 names and hopefully Piazza is on it as well. I've always suspected him of being juiced and it's about time his fraudulent personna is taken down a notch or two...
Check the eBay link below.
<< <i>Just listed most of my A-Rod cards. The rest will be on tomorrow.
Check the eBay link below. >>
/////////////////////////////////////
Looks like some folks are shopping.
Some I can't change because they have a few bids already BUT I did add a message at the bottom on some listings indicating the correct insurance price.
Let me know if they look alright.
RIP GURU
Pujols is the next one to go down. Seriously just look at his build and then look at Luis Pujols' build. People just don't want to believe it. People didn't want to believe it about Arod. I really feel sorry for "player" collectors who invest large sums of money on one guy and then see it crash when the steroids are exposed.
I have to wonder how this will affect card values of other current big name players.
<< <i>I guess Jose Canseco was right about A-Rod! >>
Interesting video I found on youtube
Video
<< <i>Do I understand this right, that SI actually has the names of the other 103 players in their possession as we speak? >>
if storm said it...gotta be right...
wait til they read AP's name...
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<< <i>Do I understand this right, that SI actually has the names of the other 103 players in their possession as we speak? >>
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Here, they seem to deny having a physical list. It is not
reasonable to think they are doing anything other than
deflecting prospective attempts to force them to surrender
the list.
".........The list of the 104 players whose urine samples tested positive is under seal in California. However, two sources familiar with the evidence that the government has gathered in its investigation of steroid use in baseball and two other sources with knowledge of the testing results have told Sports Illustrated that Rodriguez is one of the 104 players identified as having tested positive, in his case for testosterone and an anabolic steroid known by the brand name Primobolan. All four sources spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the evidence...."
ANY reporter who talked to the "sources" would demand
a looksee. SI editors would NEVER go with the current story
unless they at least KNEW the "sources" had the list in hand.
The way you "know" if a source ACTUALLY has such a list is
to eyeball it.
The logical question from the reporter/editors to the sources
would be, "Who else is on the list?" To think that was not answered,
at least in part, defies credulity.
........
From a legal standpoint, SI may be forced to continue to hide behind
"sources." However, the list itself is VERY likely the "source."
The smart/safe legal play is always to tort the BIG guy first. If he is
unable to quash the reporting, the little guys won't even try.
.........
Additionally, if SI got the list from a low-level court employee, the
story about multiple "sources" shields their actual source. A source
that could well have accepted some compensation from SI. Such
payments are NOT illegal on the part of SI, but acceptance of such
payments would likely be actionable; in fact, the mere possession
by such a court worker of the docs could be a crime.
SI - any publication - in general, can buy/use "sealed" docs provided
they had NO role in purloining the docs. They cannot steal them and
they cannot ask anyone else to do so. But, they can buy/use them.
............
Fun that the "list" pops in California at the same time a great former
NY manager is on a book tour, and living part-time in CA.
spelling edit
/s/ JackWESQ
P.S. There are Yankees fans on this board. Are you going to stop rooting/watching them? I suspect not. But if so, I commend you.
innocence does nothing but cause more problems...ala...Bonds and Clemens
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
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I am not worried about attendance for the next 10-years; maybe even 20-years.
If my theory about when baseball fans are created is true, TODAY's parents can
have a great influence on what attendance will look like 30/40 years out.
Some parents, arguably the less "sophisticated" ones, do NOT like anything to
do with DRUGS. If those folks steer their kids towards other sports/games, the
showup numbers in 2035 and beyond may well turn to caca.
Well, actually, I wish Dustin WAS on steroids. Dude, put your shirt back on.
<< <i> arod will be perceived as a wretched person while the president is looked up to. that makes alot of sense. just my .02 >>
The Pres never used drugs to win anything, it's completely different. I wish they would lay off Phelps also.
<< <i>Ross,
I to hope Griffey has played clean.
I have said it before a player I think that was on steriods and I would like to beleive
he wasn't was Bagwell. I watch him play for many years on TV but then he started to
bulk up and the noticeable vanes on his forehead make me wonder.
James >>
bagwell without a doubt is a juicer for one he went from 160lbs. soaking wet to 220lbs in one offseason onto to his mvp season, add that with his shoulder issues
<< <i>
P.S. There are Yankees fans on this board. Are you going to stop rooting/watching them? I suspect not. But if so, I commend you. >>
Bump!
I have not posted in some time. Yet some things never change.
Like JackWESQ being a total idiot as usual. You have to be dumber then a bump on a log to throw out a commendation to Yankee fans who stop watching and rooting because we have A-cheat on our team.
I am one Yankee fan who will NEVER stop watching and rooting because I LOVE THE GAME. It is in my blood. Screw the home run record. Screw any more individual records. I don't care. What I do care about is watching a ball game at 7:30 on a Wednesday night when I get home and rooting for my team. That will NEVER change. A-Rod deserves whatever is coming to him.
What makes me laugh are soap box preachers like JackWESQ who are dumb enough it expect baseball fans to stop cheering for the TEAM.
Also, the shear STUPIDITY of WESQ is really asking ALL OF US to stop rooting. Does this dim wad not realize that in this era of roids there is NO TEAM exempt?
Lets see who the other 103 players on that list are.
News flash for guys like WESQ. Its a 25 man roster you idiot. That list has 103 names on it. Were you taught math in kindergarten?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240